Official Seaton Sound Subwoofer Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Oh? Mine is a standard IEC power cord, I believe.

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Are you running yours on 120V?
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post #32 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Are you running yours on 120V?
Yup, dedicated 20A 120v line w/ nothing else connected.

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post #33 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 06:45 AM
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Have you considered switching that circuit over to 240V? My understanding is that the Sp2-12000 can only deliver about half its maximum potential when used with 120V.
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post #34 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Have you considered switching that circuit over to 240V? My understanding is that the Sp2-12000 can only deliver about half its maximum potential when used with 120V.
His amplifier is my custom DSP version of the SP2-8000HT. For those in North America, I generally recommend sticking to the 120V line and simply run a dedicated circuit. Depending on what else is in the system, mixing the 240V with 120V can create some headaches with hum or buzz, and it only takes 1 component to cause a big headache. The 2x4000W amp is designed and optimized for 120V operation. The 2x6,000W version is less sensitive to power line sag due to the more complex power supply, but it adds cost unnecessarily. I only have a few customers in the US with the 6,000W amplifiers for unique situations or desires, and I generally only recommend them for our international customers who need them where the power systems are 230-240V AC.

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post #35 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 01:01 PM
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Mark,
I emailed you about 11 days ago and again today. Please check for mail regarding Submersive F2 amp replacement. Thanks!
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post #36 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
His amplifier is my custom DSP version of the SP2-8000HT. For those in North America, I generally recommend sticking to the 120V line and simply run a dedicated circuit. Depending on what else is in the system, mixing the 240V with 120V can create some headaches with hum or buzz, and it only takes 1 component to cause a big headache. The 2x4000W amp is designed and optimized for 120V operation. The 2x6,000W version is less sensitive to power line sag due to the more complex power supply, but it adds cost unnecessarily. I only have a few customers in the US with the 6,000W amplifiers for unique situations or desires, and I generally only recommend them for our international customers who need them where the power systems are 230-240V AC.
Mark could you comment on the XLR pinout you use on your amps. There is a discussion in the Inuke thread about XLR pinout and two standards the old US and the current one most use of the 2 pin hot. Shreds mentioned Brian of Speakerpower amps "Brian O. was testing the inuke12k, he mentioned the same thing with the polarity being reversed." https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post54635152

Do you wire the 2 pin hot? Because I compared the 1000watt Submersive I have using the XLR and it is reversed to the other amps I have(Sunfire, Inuke 3000, Inuke 6000) using the 2 pin hot. So just wondering if you wire them 2 pin hot and mine had a mix-up or do you wire them all 3 pin hot?

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post #37 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 03:50 PM
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my velodyne sealed subs loved having the driver face the wall. made a noticeable difference and well worth a try with a sealed sub. mine liked 6-8inches.

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post #38 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 03:51 PM
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what does it usually cost to pay for a 240v line? is it hard to do? need a new box?

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
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post #39 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
Mark could you comment on the XLR pinout you use on your amps. There is a discussion in the Inuke thread about XLR pinout and two standards the old US and the current one most use of the 2 pin hot. Shreds mentioned Brian of Speakerpower amps "Brian O. was testing the inuke12k, he mentioned the same thing with the polarity being reversed." https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post54635152

Do you wire the 2 pin hot? Because I compared the 1000watt Submersive I have using the XLR and it is reversed to the other amps I have(Sunfire, Inuke 3000, Inuke 6000) using the 2 pin hot. So just wondering if you wire them 2 pin hot and mine had a mix-up or do you wire them all 3 pin hot?
While there used to be some companies using the "old US convention" of pin 3 hot, most all current products I know of are pin 2 hot. That is also the AES standard. More likely with the iNuke is an inverting amplifier design or some gain stage in the mix.

Your SubMersive wasn't wired out of polarity and the amplifier has the pin 2 hot. The DSP response shaping I use in the amplifiers has a similar effect as a Linkwitz Transform to maintain a more ideal sealed subwoofer response, especially through the roll off of the speaker. This is required to achieve the very deep in-room response our customers often observe. This response shaping creates an expected phase shift which causes what you observed. Nothing is physically wired backwards.
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post #40 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
While there used to be some companies using the "old US convention" of pin 3 hot, most all current products I know of are pin 2 hot. That is also the AES standard. More likely with the iNuke is an inverting amplifier design or some gain stage in the mix.

Your SubMersive wasn't wired out of polarity and the amplifier has the pin 2 hot. The DSP response shaping I use in the amplifiers has a similar effect as a Linkwitz Transform to maintain a more ideal sealed subwoofer response, especially through the roll off of the speaker. This is required to achieve the very deep in-room response our customers often observe. This response shaping creates an expected phase shift which causes what you observed. Nothing is physically wired backwards.
Interesting thank you. So much to learn. I was verifying the phase or polarity? using the Impulse response in REW to check if all my subs are in phase. So the LT will skew that, or is Impulse response not an accurate way to verify polarity or am I confusing polarity and phase?

Here is the REW impulse graph and you can see they are out of phase.

I hope you didn't take it as I was insulting you or the Submersive, I should have worded it differently as what I think I am observing is the polarities seem opposite. I am probably not understanding something. I am just trying to learn.
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post #41 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
His amplifier is my custom DSP version of the SP2-8000HT. For those in North America, I generally recommend sticking to the 120V line and simply run a dedicated circuit. Depending on what else is in the system, mixing the 240V with 120V can create some headaches with hum or buzz, and it only takes 1 component to cause a big headache. The 2x4000W amp is designed and optimized for 120V operation. The 2x6,000W version is less sensitive to power line sag due to the more complex power supply, but it adds cost unnecessarily. I only have a few customers in the US with the 6,000W amplifiers for unique situations or desires, and I generally only recommend them for our international customers who need them where the power systems are 230-240V AC.
Thanks for the info Mark.
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post #42 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 06:10 PM
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what does it usually cost to pay for a 240v line? is it hard to do? need a new box?
In the USA it can be easily performed by switching an existing 120V receptacle and using two hot wires on a new 240V (2-pole) breaker. But only if this is a dedicated branch circuit (i.e. there are no other receptacles on this circuit, just your panel box and then wire and then the receptacle, as all receptacles on the circuit will be delivering 240V and destroy anything you plug in thats expecting standard 120V. Make sure you label both wires as hot, on both ends.

I would engage the services of an electrician if you have any doubts on what you are doing. If you are comfortable doing it yourself the cost would just be a new breaker and a new receptacle, assuming you have 2 adjacent breaker positions available in your main panel.
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post #43 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Your SubMersive wasn't wired out of polarity and the amplifier has the pin 2 hot. The DSP response shaping I use in the amplifiers has a similar effect as a Linkwitz Transform to maintain a more ideal sealed subwoofer response, especially through the roll off of the speaker. This is required to achieve the very deep in-room response our customers often observe. This response shaping creates an expected phase shift which causes what you observed. Nothing is physically wired backwards.
It posts like these that remind me why I don't feel there is any real value associated with saving a few bucks on subs by going DIY.
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post #44 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
In the USA it can be easily performed by switching an existing 120V receptacle and using two hot wires on a new 240V (2-pole) breaker. But only if this is a dedicated branch circuit (i.e. there are no other receptacles on this circuit, just your panel box and then wire and then the receptacle, as all receptacles on the circuit will be delivering 240V and destroy anything you plug in thats expecting standard 120V. Make sure you label both wires as hot, on both ends.

I would engage the services of an electrician if you have any doubts on what you are doing. If you are comfortable doing it yourself the cost would just be a new breaker and a new receptacle, assuming you have 2 adjacent breaker positions available in your main panel.
think I would have better luck running my sub to my dryer outlet in laundry room think thats only 240v outlet I know of...i watched my kill o watt meter and Im not killin my electrical system that bad under 120db...this sub has crazy headroom efficiency or Im just not doing it right lol

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post #45 of 567 Old 08-22-2017, 08:24 PM
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think I would have better luck running my sub to my dryer outlet in laundry room think thats only 240v outlet I know of...i watched my kill o watt meter and Im not killin my electrical system that bad under 120db...this sub has crazy headroom efficiency or Im just not doing it right lol
Yeah dont plug your sub into 240V unless you are certain it is designed for it. Not many are in the USA.
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post #46 of 567 Old 08-23-2017, 08:48 AM
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Running my two SubMs & three Cats off a controlled 240v 40Amp circuit has worked well for me.
When I turn on my system (processor's remote) the processor's 12v trigger controls a solidstate relay which controls a 120v contactor which in turn controls a 240v contactor. (My system is now ready)

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Last edited by calentz; 08-23-2017 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Added wording
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post #47 of 567 Old 08-23-2017, 05:44 PM
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Running my two SubMs & three Cats off a controlled 240v 40Amp circuit has worked well for me.
When I turn on my system (processor's remote) the processor's 12v trigger controls a solidstate relay which controls a 120v contactor which in turn controls a 240v contactor. (My system is now ready)
No issues with noise from the 120V gear. What do you have on 120V vs 240V?
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post #48 of 567 Old 08-23-2017, 05:53 PM
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mirage had some sweet sounding gear back in 90's....they still in business? omnipolar right? I compared mirage with martin logan back in day and it was close.

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No issues with noise from the 120V gear. What do you have on 120V vs 240V?
No issues. The surround sound amps & bios lighting.

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post #50 of 567 Old 08-23-2017, 06:56 PM
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Glad to see this official thread!
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post #51 of 567 Old 08-23-2017, 07:33 PM
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mirage had some sweet sounding gear back in 90's....they still in business? omnipolar right? I compared mirage with martin logan back in day and it was close.
API [Audio Product International] manufactured Mirage, Energy, and Athena brands out of Canada. Klipsch bought API and killed Athena off while moving Mirage and Energy production to China. I believe Klipsch was acquired and the distribution of Energy and Mirage was eventually halted. Klipsch liquidated Mirage stock via Amazon's woot.com. Klipsch actually ran some extra production batches based on fan demand on woot.com.

I don't believe the OMD-28s are worth their $7500 retail price but they are worth much more than I paid! I like them because they are a unique design (Omnipolar) with high WAF. The imaging doesn't collapse when you move your head or even switch seats. Not a bad seat in the house.
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post #52 of 567 Old 08-23-2017, 07:46 PM
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I agree marc...the omnipolar design i listened to back then was very appealling and sounded downright great...think it was janet jackson back then i auditioned lol...

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post #53 of 567 Old 09-07-2017, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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is the umik in REW display the correct SPL ?

i adjusted my AVR levels in one of the settings but it doesnt feel this hot
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post #54 of 567 Old 09-08-2017, 05:35 AM
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is the umik in REW display the correct SPL ?



i adjusted my AVR levels in one of the settings but it doesnt feel this hot


Do you have the Umik-1 calibration file?


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post #55 of 567 Old 09-09-2017, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you have the Umik-1 calibration file?
yep

did some testing today. seems theres a possible null or black hole around 25hz depending on sub position on the MLP wall side

for now the back(mlp) and left walls are covered completely with shelves... which might mess something up

anyway, im not complaining, it sounds good to me, im just trying to see if i hear any difference compared to the measurements

the Chane 2.4 seem to be measuring to ~ 22000 hz then drops off. my hearing seems limited to around 17000
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L/C/R - Chane 2.4, SURROUND - dayton 3in cubes *temporary
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Last edited by bulls; 09-09-2017 at 03:09 PM.
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post #56 of 567 Old 09-09-2017, 03:57 PM
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yep

did some testing today. seems theres a possible null or black hole around 25hz depending on sub position on the MLP wall side

for now the back(mlp) and left walls are covered completely with shelves... which might mess something up

anyway, im not complaining, it sounds good to me, im just trying to see if i hear any difference compared to the measurements

the Chane 2.4 seem to be measuring to ~ 22000 hz then drops off. my hearing seems limited to around 17000
bulls,

Can you post a FR with the Limits changed to: Left: 5.0, Right: 200.0, Top: 125.0, and Bottom: 65.0?

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post #57 of 567 Old 09-09-2017, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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bulls,

Can you post a FR with the Limits changed to: Left: 5.0, Right: 200.0, Top: 125.0, and Bottom: 65.0?
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File Type: jpg position changes.jpg (203.5 KB, 569 views)

display - vizio p65
AVR x4300h +lepai 2ch amp = 7.2.4
L/C/R - Chane 2.4, SURROUND - dayton 3in cubes *temporary
BASS - 2x Seaton F18 + JTR 1400 "the wind machine" (not port noise)
2100 ft^3
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post #58 of 567 Old 09-09-2017, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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ok yep. F18s moved to front pointing at MLP just like the LCR ... kinda sounds better too ... its not WAFable tho (covers the windows)

had to turn down the vol wifes home
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BASS - 2x Seaton F18 + JTR 1400 "the wind machine" (not port noise)
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post #59 of 567 Old 09-09-2017, 11:33 PM
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The good news is that you have decent extension down to 9 Hz. At what dB did you take the green and purple graphs?

If we ignore the 2 nulls, the front locations ( green ) provides pretty flat FR. However, the purple graph is easily correctable with a minidsp 2X4 HD.
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post #60 of 567 Old 09-09-2017, 11:43 PM
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i wouldnt care about extension...i would move or aim subs around...at least thats what i did when i got new gear. my 25hp sub at 200+ pounds got tested in 5 spots before I settled

just a turn up the master volume and see if its ok graph....still more work to do but its ok....

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Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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