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Official Seaton Sound Subwoofer Thread

228K views 2K replies 207 participants last post by  darthray 
#1 · (Edited)
http://seatonsound.net/

By Mark Seaton

F18
SubMersive in several options
Terraform XL - possibly not in production anylonger... but would be a formidable adversary

Providing the awesome option of master(amp)-slave
 
#359 ·
No offence Darth,,,, but,, one man show,,,,,small company Bla Bla Bla i've heard that a hundred times and not just on this thread. Other small companies doing very well so i dont buy that for a second There is no excuse taking thousands from people and a year later, Zero results for that customer, and on top of that brutal communication "if any" for that time period. A one off situation , we could understand "maybe" but a consistent pattern is not acceptable.

This borders on "u fill in the blanks" so unless there is something serious going on, and that does not seem to be the case, these poor business practices needs to be called out , not defended imo.
 
#361 · (Edited)
Spot on!

IMO man is a thief with no regard for his customers. Great way to ruin a persons hobby.

Seriously you guys need to stop defending him and start being advocates for yourselves and fight for refunds, replacement for damaged goods etc..

A wise man once told me at times you just need to bite the bullet and make things right out of your own pocket even if not your fault. Theory that at that point no one can talk bad about you or your company.

Keep in mind Seaton doesn't even come on here to defend himself on any of these issues. Well he does blame it on a long time employee getting sick and leaving. Really??:rolleyes:
 
#363 ·
The extreme delay in sending out refunds is worrisome, one man show or not. It suggests a serious lack of working capital. I fear that he may be in a situation where current sales are funding past debts.
 
#364 ·
The extreme delay in sending out refunds is worrisome, one man show or not. It suggests a serious lack of working capital. I fear that he may be in a situation where current sales are funding past debts.

And declaring Bankcropsy, leaving the previous customer in the dust:(
Mark have great knowledge of Audio, perhaps in his situation. Asking a loan, to undo all this bad publicity to rebuilt his reputation. Would be one way to make everyone happy.


Darth
 
#366 ·
Hey guys, thanks for all the support (and ass kickings when needed lol) for me and the others having issues at the moment


In my case, when people ask why am I being so patient or seemingly defending Mark, it's purely because in my younger years things like this would really get me worked me up, I would lose sleep over it from worry and become extremely negative and anxious- often with absolutely NO positive outcome for all my stress and heartache. It's just not worth it for me. Being 10,000 miles away means no matter how worked up, anxious or angry I get on here,via email or on the phone - in the end - the ball is still in Mark's court as I'm way past the point of asking PayPal to step in for me. In this way, I'm glad I didn't waste the last 16 months stewing on this as I very likely would STILL be in the exact same position I am now.




Mark has assured he will get me a replacement cab on multiple occasions and I'm hoping he will still be able to sell me some of the newer replacement amps, as these are getting a bit "long in the tooth" (and one has recently become non-functional) , and I am choosing to take him at his word.
I really really (!) LOVE the subs, (and I've heard a setup with his Cat12 speakers which were also mind-blowingly good), when he can be reached his customer service is good and the advice and support he has given on here and at GTGs throughout his many years at AVS has always been excellent, so I hope this can all be set right.


Now......with all that said, if I lived within driving distance of Chicago I would have packed up my SubMersive 12 months ago and taken to his shop and demanded either a replacement or refund there and then lol


Cheers
Jamie
 
#368 ·
Thanks for the update Mark. Happy Birthday as well.

I know you will take care of everyone, and I'm sure others will be happy to read your post as well.

Hopefully everyone had received an E-mail that had been having trouble prior.
 
#369 ·
My repaired Submersive HP amp arrived back from SpeakerPower on Friday. Less than a month for the round trip and a very reasonable $180 USD out of warranty repair. Return UPS "standard" shipping was a little steep at $120 but the price did include official SpeakerPower packaging for the amp module.
 
#374 ·
I just happened to notice this thread in side bar. I've dealt with Mark for a couple years. I just got my 4th and 5th Sub from him less than a two weeks ago as matter of fact. Zero issues, paid and got my subs.


When I got my first subs from him a couple years ago, they were the F18's when they first came out. And the wait was a bit longer than I had hoped, but it wasn't excessive. Mark is a stand up guy and his products are worth any wait imo.


If you remotely think you are being ripped off or something crazy, dismiss that notion. Mark and his products are exceptional.
 
#375 ·
Gotta stand up for Mark, as well. When one of my F-18s was destroyed by Harvey 2 years ago (Gawd, I can’t believe it’s already been that long), he was able to issue a replacement no problem when we got a new place, and finances re-arranged. The replacement sub was delivered in less than a week. It was a much more important event than I had even anticipated. Finally getting my 2 channel system back together gave me a sense of closure after having lost everything. Anyway, so ***** about the issues, but don’t question his integrity. He’s a good guy, just not very organized sometimes ;). It happens.

DJ
 
#376 ·
I have purchased two Seaton Submersive subwoofers in the last 12 months. Mark's support to me has been excellent. His products are one of the brands that I recommend to my clients because the performance of these products warrants their cost. I do not recommend products when I have have client feedback that indicates deceptive practices or poor consumer support. Not considering a SubMersive HP+ if you want exceptionally accurate bass is denying yourself a product that surpasses others on the market. I find Seaton SubMersive to meet my preferences better than anything else I have encountered.

My experience is from calibrating thousands of home theaters with subwoofers from Aerial Acoustics, Angstrom Loudspeakers, Atlantic Technology, Axiom, B&W, Bose, Boston Acoustics, Cabasse, Crestron, Crystal Audio, Danley, Dayton, Deep Sea Sound, Definitive Technology, Elemental Designs, Energy, EPIK, Episode, era, Focal, Funk Audio, Gallo Acoustics, Genelec, Hsu, Inifinity, James, Jamo, JBL, JL Audio, JTR, Klipsch, Krell, Legacy Audio, M&K, Martin Logan, McIntosh, Mirage, MJ Acoustics, Monitor Audio, MTX, Neumann, Onix, Onkyo, Paradigm, Parts Express, PSB, Polk, Power Sound Audio, REL, Revel, Rythmik, Salk, Seaton Sound, Snell, Sony, Sunfire, SVS, Talon Audio Technologies, Tekton, Triad, Velodyne, Von Schweikert and Yamaha along with some others I cannot remember,. My experience also includes large 18" infinite baffle installations and many other DIY subwoofers.
 
#377 ·
I was a Seaton owner in a past life (about 11 years ago) when I bough the original Submersive and upgraded to 2 x Submersive HP's after that. Dealign with Mark was not always easy, as he was a one man show back then, but he always took the time to walk me through things. I was probably one of the most annoying people he had to deal with because of all my stupid questions, but he never once made me feel like his time was more valuable to mine.

If I had the money to get more SubM's right now, I would NOT hesitate to call him up and order his products again!
 
#378 · (Edited)
An inherent flaw with the Internet is that the voice of those who have issues often are louder than the satisfied customers. Over the years I have purchased cats, a submersive, and a JS-12 from Mark and imagine I am fairly representative of Mark’s customers, who don’t frequently engage on the forums. That doesn’t make the complaints any less valid, it just means there’s another side to the story.

Not knowing Mark personally, but having been a customer for over 10 years, I would say his biggest issue is that he is a perfectionist. His own forum talks about numerous products over the years that he designed that he ultimately decided were not good enough to go out the door. Almost all of the complaints I see can be categorized as issues with delivery time, component suppliers or refunds. I don’t remember seeing anyone complain that Mark’s products did not perform as promised. The delivery times yes, it can often slip a week or two past Mark’s estimate, but again, I chalk that up to Mark’s repeated testing before items go out the door and to Seaton Sound being a small business. With the components suppliers, it does seem like that takes him a little bit longer, but that is essentially him acting as a middleman to get an amp replacement.

There are quite a few recent issues being aired on this forum, but in fairness if this were reviews on Amazon, he would have a hell of a lot of five star reviews to go along with the one or two star. Ultimately we all have a decision to make with our hard-earned money, and I know that Mark will continue to earn my business. Even if it takes a few extra days to get to me, I have had years of enjoyment out of everything i have purchased from him.
 
#379 ·
I personally had a very good experience with Mark when I had purchased the submersives. The complaints that we are seeing here are legit though as some of these guys have just been waiting a response for months and unresolved issues for over a year. Hope mark can sort them out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#380 · (Edited)
My take is I wouldn't buy from the one man shows if I lived out of the country. Seems the worst experiences from the two brands I'm thinking of have been for people living outside the US.
 
#381 · (Edited)
For anyone on the fence, I’ve owned twelve Seaton Sound subwoofers across three different models and two build threads since 2012—Submersive F2 (2 purchased in 2012), Submersive HP+(2 purchased in 2013), and F18 (8 purchased in 2016) and of all twelve, only one—an HP+ ever had an issue, which was a bad amp module. Like Craig’s experience posted above, I had a tracking number for a replacement amp the same day I called...and Mark walked me through the replacement process in real-time on the phone.

I also have plans to add four more custom depth F18 subs in the near future. With ~$22k spent with Seaton Sound so far, with 12 hits and no misses since 2012, I see no reason to go elsewhere for subs 13-16.

Also, Mark was very understanding with my financial limitations for the eight subs. I sent a certain amount to get the building started.....Mark finished all eight subs and they were ready to ship, but due to a car accident and some other things, I still didn’t have the remainder of the disposable $$$ to send Mark...he warehoused the subs until I was ready. For those who own small business, warehousing large “spoken for” products is risky because it ultimately decreases readiness by a certain %....but Mark did it for me. He could have just sold them and started the build over when i sent all of the money, but he didn’t—he wanted them ready to ship the moment I had the money.

No business is perfect because no human is perfect. If you look on the Lamborghini or Ferrari forums, you’ll see complaints there too...thing sometimes fall through the cracks because business have so many moving parts....but guys, Mark is great, his products are great, and his treatment of customers is great.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
#383 ·
on-line vendors, (be it audio, car parts or window shades) establish themselves with trust...in the product itself and in the customer service provided should a problem arise. the successful companies are exceptional at both. I've been reading this forum for years, and Mark Seaton has always been on my short list of an owner whose products I would like to own and do business with. his input and advice have been invaluable to me in my enjoyment of this hobby and I own none of his products. that said, this unfolding storyline reminds me of the demise of Mark S. and av123. unhappy customers in one corner and staunch supporters in the other.

I truly don't believe the outcome will be the same...but a little varnish has been chipped from the finish. here's to hoping it can be fully repaired.

trust is everything
 
#385 ·
... this unfolding storyline reminds me of the demise of Mark S. and av123. unhappy customers in one corner and staunch supporters in the other.

I truly don't believe the outcome will be the same...but a little varnish has been chipped from the finish. here's to hoping it can be fully repaired.

trust is everything
To be clear Mark S. is convicted fraudster Mark Schifter and not connected to Mark Seaton.

Buying from big AV companies is not without its problems. Many deserve a lot more criticism than they receive for the products they are selling. There are relatively few companies I would purchase products from based on my experience in the field with their software bugs and product durability. The vast majority of people are just blissfully ignorant as long as it powers on and has basic functionality.
 
#391 ·
It's great to read all the positive experiences people have had throughout the years with Mark,it goes without saying that his subs are excellent,and his contributions on here are always great. that's a big part of why I went with the SubMersive's in the first place.

Unfortunately that doesn't change some of the "less positive" experiences a few of us have had. I'm fairly sure if Craig or Brolic were to email Mark, they WOULD get a return email within a day or so, and if they had a problem it would probably be looked after quite quickly.

As previously stated, my SubM arrived damaged in March 2018 - over 16 months ago - and I'm still waiting on a replacement . I haven't heard back from Mark since April when he said he had a Black Oak cabinet ready to ship. I have emailed a couple of times without reply.
The amp in that sub has now died as well. Speaker-Power said I might be able to send it to them for repair, but it honestly wouldn't be worth the repair bill + the $5-600 in freight charges to get it there and back. So I need to buy a new amp as well.
Honestly,all I want is an undamaged (and working) sub, so I can get back to enjoying my setup.
 
#395 · (Edited)
First off, i'm happy for those who have been treated well by Mark as there have been many so (no sarcasm here). And i "would" expect some to come to his defense (no harm, no fowl). I do however wonder how much the tone and content of those same people's posts would change "if" they were in the predicament of any of the three different customers that posted on just the page before, never mind the others? Really guys!! a year:rolleyes:,,,,,,, sixteen months:rolleyes: and "still" counting,,,,, what words would you use if your money was taken that long ago and have nothing to show for it??

I'm the last person that would ever wish anything bad on any small business, but not at the expense of trusting customers. I don't know Mark or his personality, i don't know if he just has an extreme cavalier disposition,,,,,, or whether his company is treading water with a fifty pound sand bag attached to it's ankle.

All of those who have posted since the recent sarcasm/criticism,,,, Mark included have "not" addressed any one of those three's predicament in specific detail. Comes across to me as "deflection".

I would love to see these issues resolved and future improvements implemented so Seaton not only thrives,,, but customers go through much less headache. That would be the best scenario imo.
 
#399 ·
I don’t think anyone who supports Seaton Sound is saying the issues being reported here are unimportant. They DO need to be rectified; however, horrible experiences by a small sample size of the customer pool does not make a company a bad one, and it does not make that company’s owner a thief—which is the picture being painted on this thread. It’s important to establish that based solely on ratios of bad experiences to good experiences, Seaton Sound is still a good company with a HUGE level of satisfaction by customers. Again, the issues mentioned are major issues, and were I experiencing them, I’d be upset as well (as would any customer)—the point I’m trying to get at is, there’s so much talk of thievery and such based on a minority of bad experiences.

Allow me to share a story: in 2010, I decided I wanted to pursue my first ever luxury car. I pursued a decently loaded Lexus, which—believe it or not—cost around the same as a slightly more fully loaded Toyota Camry. During the test drive, a “Check VSC” warning light came on and the engine immediately lost the ability to pass 2000 RPM. ON THE TEST DRIVE!!! The sales guy said “Oh, we just need to connect a hose that came loose when washing the engine—that’s no problem.” This was a red flag, so I told the sales guy I needed to think about it. Went home, took to the almighty Internet to see who else had experienced the issue. Turns out, TONS of people experienced this “Check VSC” warning AFTER purchase, and in many cases, the dealerships couldn’t identify the cause and said they basically just had to live with it. So I went to look at positive ownership reviews—there weren’t a whole lot, because when something works the way it should, people just smile and go about life enjoying their purchase. I took a leap of faith and purchased that car the next day......and guess what.....

The Check VSC warning light came on again a few days after purchase. I took the car back to the dealership demanding a refund—and do you know what the dealership told me after they couldn’t find a solution? “You’ll have to live with it.”

I drove away ENRAGED....and said No I will NOT live with it...I’ll find someone who has been working specifically with Lexuses longer than the early 20-somethings kids at the dealership service shop had been alive. I found someone, and he found and fixed the issue. I enjoyed the heck out of that car for five years—it was the car of my mid-twenties. I had such pride of ownership, it was a conversation starter with Vice Presidents after meetings (I’d always offer to drive), and the ladies loved it.

I say all of that to say: The bad experiences reported online far outweighed the good experiences, and even after taking the leap, I STILL became one of the “bad experience” people, but through patience and diligence during a “bad” period, I became a 5+ year “good experience” person.

Just hang in there guys...for the folks going through the “Check VSC Light after purchase” phase, please understand that a resolution IS coming, although you had to work hard to find it (as I did), I would still urge you to go with Seaton (although this time work something out where you don’t pay until it’s shipped) because the end result is greatness, and its name is “The Brown Note.”

Sorry for the dissertation of a post—the situations just really reminded me of that car situation, and how mad I was initially....and then how happy I became.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
#401 ·
Could you imagine if you gave the dealer your money and waited for the car to be fixed for over a year? This stuff is not making sense. Has Seaton been building and selling subs within the last year? If so then why would these 3 people not get money or subs too? Is there more to the story? Did their emails go to junk or something. I have seen Mark post on other threads so he sees this stuff, was this not mentioned to him until recently?
 
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#402 ·
I know Jamie has been tagging in the threads where he had been responding, we have tagged him as well and asked him to help Jamie. There is no scenario left where he is has not been reminded of this issue several times. Its a choice being made not to address and its a ****ty deal to be honest and to make it worse no indication of being resolved anytime soon either
 
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#408 ·
Well, it is said that a happy person will tell their best friend, an unhappy person will tell everyone. I get you being patient and all, but I don't understand waiting for a replacement over somebody getting a new sub when you bought yours 16 months ahead of them. You are the first person in line, not last, or hopefully one left in stock. You build one extra just for you. Especially if it was settled that you get a replacement. The problem here is maybe it was mentioned if he could get you one later and you were ok with it but that has turned out to be much later. If you told him you could wait, don't worry, I am happy, etc.. you might have created this yourself. This is the something else we don't know I was talking about. If you never gave that impression then the next built submersive should have been yours IMHO.
 
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#415 ·
I do agree Jamie needs and needed to be a little more demanding on his expectations, but to imply his extreme patience possibly contributed to 16 months is just silly imo,,,, what about the other two recent posters who also have been waiting a year? Nobody really wants to have this discussion and some would prefer to have these issues swept under the carpet, but none of this exists,, if they were just taken care of,, pretty simple imo.
 
#417 ·
I agree, but, when is so passive somethings don't get done. I know, I am passive as well. Sometimes we need to just change a little to get what is deserved and not in a mean way.

If the guys here that have many submersives think this is ok they could always ship one of their many to Jamie and wait for Mark to send them another.
 
#423 ·
Hi,

I've been trying to get a hold of Mark for 8 days to see about ordering a replacement amp for my Submersive HP since the amp quit working. I was going to get the 4000 watt amp and then buy a slave sub after that. Has anybody had Mark call them recently? Is his health ok or is he just super busy?

Thanks for any help,
Mike
 
#427 · (Edited)
Well according to this thread it could be that he lost a 9 year employee a while back, it he is a one man operation, it was do to time with his young son, it was his birthday and the list goes on. So he can't find time to send out a replacement for a damaged unit going on 16 months, has two others waiting in the wings for refunds but the check is in the mail next week etc.. But hey according to some he makes the best subs ever so these issues are ok.

Good luck with your Seaton sub purchase but what do i know? I am just a fool that knows what the definition of a thief is!
 
#424 ·
Hey Jamie, Is there no one down under that does this sort of thing? I mean, Australia is a continent. There has to be a comparable sub builder somewhere that could produce something a little more ‘local’, so shipping wouldn’t be such an issue. Then you could just get a refund, and do no harm no foul with Mark, and simply go your separate ways. I dunno, this just sound like a toxic transaction that both you and Mark should simply move on from.

DJ
 
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#425 ·
No not really mate, I mean I could look into something custom built (and I did look at some large ported custom builds) but wanted the known performance of the SubM. No one local offers a product of the SubM's capability (IMHO)

PSA is available here,they are well priced but to get something comparable to dual SubM with the 6KW master/slave amp, I was probably looking at dual Triax/T18's which would have been $10k over here, which is a bit beyond my budget. Shortly after buying my SubMs the PSA S3000i dropped down by like $750ea (to $2250), looking back I would have bought these but the timing was off
A friend offered to sell me his SubM for a really good price (and it's been bulletproof and a joy to own!) so I reached out to mark about buying a second SubM with a 6kw amp so I could convert mine to a slave (as the amp is about 7yrs old)
 
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