Official Monoprice THX Subwoofers - Page 49 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1441 of 1616 Old 01-14-2020, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The problem with having two unequal subs is the weaker one is in a constant state of added strain trying to keep up with the better, higher output one. Best to have two of the same if you ask me. This means you have a more even distribution of labor and each one can play at a slightly lower level [hence a cleaner output with less distortion] since half of its room filling duty is being covered by its twin.
Thanks for the input. The X13 and M12 appear to have quite similar profiles, so I wouldn't anticipate either one "straining". But I'm just_a_noob so what do I know? Someone please correct me if I'm off-base on that conclusion.

Hypothetically, what would happen if I bought a second X13 and laid it on its side to make it front-firing? The two subs would have theoretically equal capabilities, but fire differently. If they could be tuned right, could I get the best of both down-firing and front-firing worlds? That effectively what I'm trying to accomplish by mixing M12 with X13.
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post #1442 of 1616 Old 01-14-2020, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_a_noob View Post
Hypothetically, what would happen if I bought a second X13 and laid it on its side to make it front-firing? The two subs would have theoretically equal capabilities, but fire differently. If they could be tuned right, could I get the best of both down-firing and front-firing worlds? That effectively what I'm trying to accomplish by mixing M12 with X13.
Where did you hear front firing and downward firing are different? They aren't. The bass frequencies are so long that moving a sub by rotating it on any axis doesn't amount to much. Go for it if it helps it fit.

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post #1443 of 1616 Old 01-16-2020, 07:19 AM
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Clearly the sound dynamics are different between the designs. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of pointing the woofer in a different direction? Not to be argumentative, but your response appears to be dismissive.

Anyone else with thoughts on mixing down-firing and front-firing subs?

Another thought is that the X13 performs really well in the low range, but not quite as well in the higher ranges. Would pairing with a different woofer supplement the weaknesses of the X13?
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post #1444 of 1616 Old 01-16-2020, 09:04 AM
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The test is pretty easy but it has to be performed under blind conditions or else one's preconceived biases of "how it is" will influence what they hear. There are many people who have convinced themselves they are immune to the placebo effect however they are wrong. All human beings are subject to cognitive bias whether they realize it or not.

While blindfolded or at least facing the other direction, have a friend rotate a subwoofer on one of its axes, 90 degrees, as per your verbal instructions, to see if you can identify which direction it is facing while listening to bass heavy content. Your friend needs to be dead silent and not speak or else their grunts, words, and intonation may inadvertently give away what position the sub is in. This makes the test effectively double blind as opposed to single blind.
===

There are many reasons a designer may make a sub face its woofer in different directions which have nothing to do with sound. For example, spouses often think subwoofers look stupid but at least if the woofer faces downward it can be disguised as just an "end table".
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post #1445 of 1616 Old 01-16-2020, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_a_noob View Post
I'm looking for some input on sub pairing. I recently installed an Outlaw X13, which sounds great, and I'm looking at adding a second sub as I've read so much about the added benefit. I was considering pairing the X13 with a Monolith 12", but I'm worried about mixing down-firing with front-firing. It wouldn't break my heart to buy a second X13, so I wouldn't be too disappointed if that was the consensus.

Your input is much appreciated!
Then do the easy thing and get a 2nd X13 if you can afford it. Another option would be to buy Qty 2 of the THX 12 for the same $$ and sell your Outlaw.

IMO you want two identical subs, not just for sound but also for appearance.
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post #1446 of 1616 Old 01-16-2020, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_a_noob View Post
Clearly the sound dynamics are different between the designs. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of pointing the woofer in a different direction? Not to be argumentative, but your response appears to be dismissive.
From an output and extension perspective there actually is little difference between the orientations. Part of the reason both alignments exist is pragmatic; if you have kids or pets, hiding the driver is a wise idea. Another reason is that down-firing tend to create a bit more physical sensation on suspended wood floors because the driver is firing directly into the surface. If the port is also facing down it can help minimize noise as it's somewhat deflected by the floor (less of a 'chuffing' sound during times of heavy use)..


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Originally Posted by just_a_noob View Post
Anyone else with thoughts on mixing down-firing and front-firing subs?
It would certainly be easier than integrating ported and sealed but caveats still exist; they will need to be virtually identical in capabilities otherwise integration will be hit-or-miss. You will always find the weak link if there is one.
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post #1447 of 1616 Old 01-16-2020, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_a_noob View Post
Clearly the sound dynamics are different between the designs. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of pointing the woofer in a different direction? Not to be argumentative, but your response appears to be dismissive.

Anyone else with thoughts on mixing down-firing and front-firing subs?

Another thought is that the X13 performs really well in the low range, but not quite as well in the higher ranges. Would pairing with a different woofer supplement the weaknesses of the X13?
m. zillch is correct, there will be little - if any - difference between down and forward firing designs, and even if there are some very slight differences between how the two orientations play into the room, they would be swamped by more important things like box size,port tuning and the actual room itself.
The PSA 15V (down-firing) and V1500 (front-firing) sound and perform almost identically,the only difference is that the larger cabinet on the V1500 allows it to be tuned slightly lower, netting it a few Hz lower extension.

I wouldn't over think it, get another X13, they are a really solid sub and make for great end tables
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post #1448 of 1616 Old 01-16-2020, 11:42 AM
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Considering the wavelengths are so long, moving a sub by less than a foot usually doesn't amount to very much however I can see a few oddball scenarios were a person with a side-firing sealed sub has a slight advantage in that they have an option to subtly tweak the room performance by rotating their sub 180 degrees: this places the cone about a foot away from where it had been yet visually the room position is still "the same".

Things get a little trickier with ported subs however a sealed sub's "location" is the center of its woofer cone.
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post #1449 of 1616 Old 01-16-2020, 11:50 AM
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I also like that with side firing subs you can take the grill off to see the cone in motion.

Pro Tip: One trick is to put a tiny dot of white ink/paint (Sharpie?) on the cone. This visually becomes a white line in actual use and can act as a "cone excursion indicator". Fun for all and provides some safety to be sure you aren't overdoing it. Add a variable strobe light, like from a free phone app, and you can watch your cone's pistonic motion, in and out, "very slowly".
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post #1450 of 1616 Old 01-16-2020, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
Then do the easy thing and get a 2nd X13 if you can afford it. Another option would be to buy Qty 2 of the THX 12 for the same $$ and sell your Outlaw.

IMO you want two identical subs, not just for sound but also for appearance.
I got the Outlaw during their holiday sale, and I'm very happy with it. I'm not looking to get rid of it any time soon. Plus, I live in Wichita, KS. I don't think it will be easy to sell this level of sub in my market. But you've given me something to consider.
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post #1451 of 1616 Old 01-17-2020, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by just_a_noob View Post
I got the Outlaw during their holiday sale, and I'm very happy with it. I'm not looking to get rid of it any time soon. Plus, I live in Wichita, KS. I don't think it will be easy to sell this level of sub in my market. But you've given me something to consider.
My advice: contact them and ask if they'll sell you another at the sale price. If not, wait for another sale!

Maybe aesthetics are not important to your room, or you can position the different subs so they are pleasing to you, but the two are very different looks-wise. Otherwise I guess the consensus here is that it will be possible to balance them.
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post #1452 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 07:26 AM
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Thank you to whoever returned a Mono 10 sub so I could buy a second for ~$340 plus tax. Way better deal the the %10 off at Black Friday
Although it is possibly overkill for my space
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post #1453 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MegaFlop View Post
Thank you to whoever returned a Mono 10 sub so I could buy a second for ~$340 plus tax. Way better deal the the %10 off at Black Friday
Although it is possibly overkill for my space
Attachment 2674608
Congrats. Their "open box" area is hard to surf IMO!

Is that a glass, or plexiglass panel you use for your makeshift desk? Very nice setup.
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post #1454 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
Congrats. Their "open box" area is hard to surf IMO!

Is that a glass, or plexiglass panel you use for your makeshift desk? Very nice setup.
It is a glass top from IKEA with storage cubes as the sides. I think it is 5' wide, that is a 43" TV but the perspective makes it seem smaller.
I will be carefully eyeing the new LG 48" OLED when it is available for a upgrade.
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post #1455 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MegaFlop View Post
Thank you to whoever returned a Mono 10 sub so I could buy a second for ~$340 plus tax. Way better deal the the %10 off at Black Friday
Although it is possibly overkill for my space
Attachment 2674608


No mold on the grills?
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post #1456 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 09:08 AM
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No mold on the grills?

Honestly I haven't checked. I don't intend on using them. I should probably take a look though just in case.
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post #1457 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 09:19 AM
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"Mold on the grills" seems odd to me since I'd assume they use purely synthetic materials and doesn't mold need food and water to grow?

Can anyone link me to a photo of said mold or are we all just assuming anecdotal accounts of it are correct?
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post #1458 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
"Mold on the grills" seems odd to me since I'd assume they use purely synthetic materials and doesn't mold need food and water to grow?

Can anyone link me to a photo of said mold or are we all just assuming anecdotal accounts of it are correct?
Doesn't matter if anecdotal accounts are correct, it only takes a minute to look, so well worth your time.
Everything's anecdotal an AVS, but I'm still not going to buy an Emotiva processor, or subwoofers from certain vendors.

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post #1459 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtscode View Post
So I received two monolith 10” subs today and yesterday. Both have mold on the grills. One of them quite bad. I just unpacked and will of course contact Monoprice but has anyone seen this before? It’s kind of gross.
Look at this post for pics of the mold:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58955622

It seems highly unlikely to me that what they shipped gtscode was new stock. I'd guess instead that they were either returned by a customer (and inadequately inspected) or that they were found in some obscure corner of the warehouse.

My 12s did come from a warehouse in Florence, Kentucky and I assume the 10s are there as well. But even if they had an unusually hot & humid summer there, that could not explain how they sat unsold and acquired mold?

But FWIW we lived in Texas for many years and it was depressing to learn how quickly things got moldy when the A/C wasn't quite up to snuff.

Last edited by Laserfan; 01-23-2020 at 10:12 AM.
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post #1460 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 10:27 AM
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Ah, I see. The (probably synthetic) fabric may be cross contaminated due to proximity however the organic compound the mold is growing on seems to be the wood. Thanks for the pics, Laserfan!
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post #1461 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 11:05 AM
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I'm struggling atm to recall whether my 12 was packed with dessicant of any kind. I've gotten a couple other things, pieces of furniture, that were (of course!) Chinese re: mfr and they had big bags of the stuff inside.

No doubt anything that is shipped here by boat needs to account for humidity huh!
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post #1462 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 11:36 AM
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There was desiccant in all of the subs packaging. I have no bones to pick with Monoprice but it was a bummer I loved the subs.

I got a replacement set worse than the first set but I’ll admit I’m shocked nobody else had mentioned it. I had specifically asked them to inspect the replacements. In the end all is good I got my money back.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...3112776?page=1
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post #1463 of 1616 Old 01-23-2020, 12:05 PM
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Desiccant packs don't really work unless you have a fairly tightly sealed bag. If the bag can breath they don't work because they can't deal with a constant barrage of new, incoming humid air. They are like sponges and once they get saturated they no longer suck away humidity.
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post #1464 of 1616 Old 01-24-2020, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtscode View Post
There was desiccant in all of the subs packaging. I have no bones to pick with Monoprice but it was a bummer I loved the subs.

I got a replacement set worse than the first set but I’ll admit I’m shocked nobody else had mentioned it. I had specifically asked them to inspect the replacements. In the end all is good I got my money back.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...3112776?page=1
Thanks for the link, I had not seen that thread.

I have a new THX 12 sitting here unboxed and it appears perfect (I have not hooked it up yet). The 2nd sub that FedEx brought at the same time had such box damage that we (the driver & I) looked inside and the grill frame was broken and so I rejected it. This was on the 8th. It somehow took until the 16th for the rejected sub to make its way back to their KY warehouse and they still have not shipped a replacement sub, although they've promised me they will replace it!

I had finally bit-down on the bullet and decided the THX12 was what I wanted what with all of price/performance/THX/looks and finally, importantly HDF (structure, weight) swaying me. It's too early to call this a mistake but I am not happy with how difficult it's been to get a replacement sub. Heck the damaged one never even was lifted-off the FedEx truck!

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post #1465 of 1616 Old 01-30-2020, 07:47 AM
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I just thought I would give you guys a update. I picked up the Dayton UMM-6 microphone and ran some quick sweeps. I was having a hard time getting the mid-bass where I wanted when I decided to try plugging the ports on the Mono 10s. Apparently having two vented THX approved subs for 2000 cubic feet in a ~1000 cubic foot office generated too much low bass.


I wish I had a DIRAC receiver and I could have dialed it in with the vented subs. My Pioneer 102 only has limited PEQ bands. I am setup for Dolby Atmos so my EQ options are limited.


I was able to get +- 5db from ~14hz to 1khz. Which isn't super amazing, but better then I had before.


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post #1466 of 1616 Old 01-30-2020, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MegaFlop View Post
I just thought I would give you guys a update. I picked up the Dayton UMM-6 microphone and ran some quick sweeps. I was having a hard time getting the mid-bass where I wanted when I decided to try plugging the ports on the Mono 10s. Apparently having two vented THX approved subs for 2000 cubic feet in a ~1000 cubic foot office generated too much low bass.
Did you already try THX mode instead of EXT

Quote:
I was able to get +- 5db from ~14hz to 1khz. Which isn't super amazing, but better then I had before.


Attachment 2677896
Attachment 2677894
That's not bad at all. Good job!
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post #1467 of 1616 Old 01-30-2020, 02:21 PM
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Did you already try THX mode instead of EXT

That's not bad at all. Good job!

I did not, but looking at the sweeps in the Audioholics review THX mode has a minimal impact in the 40 to 60hz range and adds a bump in the 20 to 30hz range which it doesn't look like I need.


I realize now I should just get the base MiniDSP and run the sub out from the receiver through it. Then I should be able to go back to vented mode on the subs and cut the low bass enough to be flat with the MiniDSP. That will be a future project.


I'm running a 100hz x-over by the way. No problem at all with the Monolith 10s.
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post #1468 of 1616 Old 02-01-2020, 04:07 PM
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Added some SVS isolation feet to my 12s. Helped out alot with room vibrations and overall cleaner bass.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
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post #1469 of 1616 Old 02-01-2020, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Norris Kasey View Post
Added some SVS isolation feet to my 12s. Helped out alot with room vibrations and overall cleaner bass.

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I agree, I put these on my dual 12's. Really tightened things up nicely in my room.
Always felt the feet that come with the mono price subs are a bit underwhelming.
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post #1470 of 1616 Old 02-01-2020, 04:24 PM
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Yeah much smoother bass I had some ceiling lights that rattle. Reduced it by at least half. It also seems that after recalibration I lowered the gains some too.

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