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post #31 of 56 Old 11-23-2017, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
The PB12-NSD is the predecessor to the PB-2000, which retails for $799. At $499, it's going to be the best sub at the price point because it's really a $799 sub.
The original PB12-NSD used the older BASH amplifiers, the current ones SVS is offering use the newer SLEDGE amps. At $499 including the 5-year warranty, this sub is a steal IMO.
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post #32 of 56 Old 11-23-2017, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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$500 sub recommendations?

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Originally Posted by nhpm510 View Post
So what is creating the room pressurization effect?

Is that headroom?

Or decibels?



Hope my fellow $500 sub buyers don't think this a thread jack in progress!

Haha, no worries, all good discussion! I didn’t realize $500 was such a common target price point/budget for people looking to buy a sub, not just myself!

I’m somewhat settled on the SVS PB-1000 or HSU VTF-2, unless I can find a really good deal on a used VTF-3. The leap from $600 to $800 is getting a little steep. Plus, the SVS is on amazon, so I can get 5% off. The HSU’s seem a little harder to find!

Plus, I really like how compact the SVS is. The HSU’s are a bit bigger (not necessarily a bad thing, especially if it gets you better sound quality. But it’s something to be considered).

About the wallet thing... started off with a $2,000 budget. I’m definitely gonna be closer to $3,000 once I’ve bought everything


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post #33 of 56 Old 11-23-2017, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresfortheCup View Post
I’m somewhat settled on the SVS PB-1000 or HSU VTF-2, unless I can find a really good deal on a used VTF-3.
The PB12-NSD is better in every way compared to the PB-1000 at the same price to boot:

https://www.svsound.com/products/pb12-nsd
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post #34 of 56 Old 11-23-2017, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post
The PB12-NSD is better in every way compared to the PB-1000 at the same price to boot:

https://www.svsound.com/products/pb12-nsd


Interesting. I’d heard/thought that the PB12-NSD was similar to the PB-1000, But was an older model that’s been essentially discontinued. Why make two similar products at a similar price point?

That said, if it’s better sound for the same price, count me in!


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post #35 of 56 Old 11-23-2017, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresfortheCup View Post
Interesting. I’d heard/thought that the PB12-NSD was similar to the PB-1000, But was an older model that’s been essentially discontinued. Why make two similar products at a similar price point?

That said, if it’s better sound for the same price, count me in!


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Should’ve taken a closer look... looks like the predecessor to the PB-2000, not the PB-1000


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post #36 of 56 Old 11-23-2017, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post
The PB12-NSD is better in every way compared to the PB-1000 at the same price to boot:

https://www.svsound.com/products/pb12-nsd
Agree. The PB12-NSD slots in performance wise between the PB2000 and the PB1000, while costing like the PB1000.
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post #37 of 56 Old 11-23-2017, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresfortheCup View Post
Should’ve taken a closer look... looks like the predecessor to the PB-2000, not the PB-1000


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With the sale price of the PB12-NSD being at the same price as the PB1000 it should be a steal. I recently was undecided between the PB1000 and PB2000 (replacing a BIC EV-1200) and figured go big or go home and went with the PB2000. WOW, best decision I made in quite a while. It plays not only much lower, but it's so much cleaner sounding. I was watching Alien Covenant earlier this morning at a pretty descent volume. There was a scene where their ship gets hit with a solar flare and I could actually 'feel' the air in the room rumble . If the PB12-NSD is anywhere close to the PB-2000 I'm pretty sure you will more than happy with the results compared with the PB1000.

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post #38 of 56 Old 11-23-2017, 01:06 PM
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What do you guys think about this?


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post #39 of 56 Old 11-23-2017, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post
The original PB12-NSD used the older BASH amplifiers, the current ones SVS is offering use the newer SLEDGE amps. At $499 including the 5-year warranty, this sub is a steal IMO.
Way back when the original PB12-NSD came out it did use a BASH amp, as did the other SVS subs. SVS switched to Sledge amps and the PB12-NSD was paired with the Sledge amp for the last several years of it's cycle.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, MDR-V6, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31, XB22. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4. TB Stealth300. LG FH6, RK8, RK7, PK5, PH4. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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post #40 of 56 Old 11-25-2017, 06:19 AM
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Don't want to create a new thread, since I'm basically in the same situation as the OP--not doing a new build though, looking to upgrade from my Emotiva Ultra 10 (sealed) to something a bit more suited to HT vs music. My budget is basically the same, but when I bought the Emotiva, I made the mistake of buying less sub than I needed, thinking that I'm not the biggest basshead. Should I just snag the PB12-NSD and be done with it? My HT area is 13x13, but the room is open on one end to the dining room/kitchen area (essentially a 13 x 26 rectangle) with a hallway coming off of it, so impossible to seal. Also, would it make sense to run the new sub along with the Emotiva, or does new sub make Emotiva pointless? Looking to buy while the current BF sales are on, this seems like the sweet spot in terms of price/perf.
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post #41 of 56 Old 11-25-2017, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by automaton View Post
Don't want to create a new thread, since I'm basically in the same situation as the OP--not doing a new build though, looking to upgrade from my Emotiva Ultra 10 (sealed) to something a bit more suited to HT vs music. My budget is basically the same, but when I bought the Emotiva, I made the mistake of buying less sub than I needed, thinking that I'm not the biggest basshead. Should I just snag the PB12-NSD and be done with it? My HT area is 13x13, but the room is open on one end to the dining room/kitchen area (essentially a 13 x 26 rectangle) with a hallway coming off of it, so impossible to seal. Also, would it make sense to run the new sub along with the Emotiva, or does new sub make Emotiva pointless? Looking to buy while the current BF sales are on, this seems like the sweet spot in terms of price/perf.
I wouldn’t run the PB12-NSD along your sealed sub. Mixing sealed and ported is difficult to do. Definitely jump on the PB12-NSD while SVS still has them—it is a killer sub for $499. I picked one up for my parents’ HT system, and I am listening to it in my system before I deliver it on Christmas. I have to say that I am very impressed so far, and I can’t wait to hear in their system!

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post #42 of 56 Old 11-26-2017, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
I wouldn’t run the PB12-NSD along your sealed sub. Mixing sealed and ported is difficult to do. Definitely jump on the PB12-NSD while SVS still has them—it is a killer sub for $499. I picked one up for my parents’ HT system, and I am listening to it in my system before I deliver it on Christmas. I have to say that I am very impressed so far, and I can’t wait to hear in their system!
Thanks for the advice. The Emotiva will sound great in my office...!
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post #43 of 56 Old 11-26-2017, 09:40 PM
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I am also looking to upgrade my sub-woofer situation. Right now I have a 5.2.2 system with two SW-8MK2 subs. Is the PB12 still the best option, and if so should I still use the SW-8MK2 on top of the PB12?
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post #44 of 56 Old 11-27-2017, 09:50 AM
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Ended up biting on the PB-12. Hoping it's a significant step up from the Emotiva.
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post #45 of 56 Old 11-27-2017, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by automaton View Post
Ended up biting on the PB-12. Hoping it's a significant step up from the Emotiva.
Congrats! Be sure to let us know what you think of it!

I'm still a bit undecided on my sub. I hear what everyone's saying about the SVS PB-12NSD, and I fully believe it's a damn good sub, especially at the current price, but I'm currently a bit space limited, and wasn't planning on buying a sub for a few months yet. That thing is huge, and probably won't be available for much longer. Between the two, I like the size of the PB-1000 a lot more than the PB-12NSD. Now, I know that internal volume to the subwoofer box correlates directly with the tuning of the port and the bass extension (bigger box usually means lower port tuning and lower rolloff), but I'm not sure I can find a place to put that in my current room. So I guess I'm asking if there are any similar subs with a smaller footprint around the $500 price point, or if the SVS PB-1000 is the next best thing, even if you're sacrificing some of the deepest bass levels for the size savings.

Has anyone seen a frequency response chart for these subs? I'd be curious how they compare, and how much lower the PB-12NSD rolls off as compared to the PB-1000. Also, given my mains, I'm hoping to get a fairly flat response out of the sub up to 80Hz if I can.
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post #46 of 56 Old 11-27-2017, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresfortheCup View Post
Congrats! Be sure to let us know what you think of it!

I'm still a bit undecided on my sub. I hear what everyone's saying about the SVS PB-12NSD, and I fully believe it's a damn good sub, especially at the current price, but I'm currently a bit space limited, and wasn't planning on buying a sub for a few months yet. That thing is huge, and probably won't be available for much longer. Between the two, I like the size of the PB-1000 a lot more than the PB-12NSD. Now, I know that internal volume to the subwoofer box correlates directly with the tuning of the port and the bass extension (bigger box usually means lower port tuning and lower rolloff), but I'm not sure I can find a place to put that in my current room. So I guess I'm asking if there are any similar subs with a smaller footprint around the $500 price point, or if the SVS PB-1000 is the next best thing, even if you're sacrificing some of the deepest bass levels for the size savings.

Has anyone seen a frequency response chart for these subs? I'd be curious how they compare, and how much lower the PB-12NSD rolls off as compared to the PB-1000. Also, given my mains, I'm hoping to get a fairly flat response out of the sub up to 80Hz if I can.
Rhythmik LV12R and HSU VTF-2.5 would be the similar subs in price and performance. I belive both are a bit smaller than the PB12-NSD. PB-1000 is a good sub, but if there's any possible way to swing the PB12-NSD, that's a better sub. PB12 uses a more robust, higher quality driver. Here's a pic of the drivers. PB12 uses a cast aluminum basket with an aluminum cone. PB-1000 uses a cheaper cast steel basket and I' believe a polypropylene cone.
PB12-NSD
PB-1000

VTF-2 mk5 also uses a cheaper stamped basket.
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Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, MDR-V6, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31, XB22. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4. TB Stealth300. LG FH6, RK8, RK7, PK5, PH4. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).

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post #47 of 56 Old 11-27-2017, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Rhythmik LV12R and HSU VTF-2.5 would be the similar subs in price and performance. I belive both are a bit smaller than the PB12-NSD. PB-1000 is a good sub, but if there's any possible way to swing the PB12-NSD, that's a better sub. PB12 uses a more robust, higher quality driver. Here's a pic of the drivers. PB12 uses a cast aluminum basket with an aluminum cone. PB-1000 uses a cheaper cast steel basket and I' believe a polypropylene cone.

VTF-2 mk5 also uses a cheaper stamped basket.
Good information on the quality differences between them. I wouldn't think the stamped/cast steel basket would make a huge difference (they still look fairly sturdy) compared to the cast aluminum, but a better quality driver and aluminum cone may well be worth the improvement over the polypropylene. The box must be built pretty solid too, can't believe the thing weighs 66 lbs!
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post #48 of 56 Old 11-27-2017, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SabresfortheCup View Post
Good information on the quality differences between them. I wouldn't think the stamped/cast steel basket would make a huge difference (they still look fairly sturdy) compared to the cast aluminum, but a better quality driver and aluminum cone may well be worth the improvement over the polypropylene. The box must be built pretty solid too, can't believe the thing weighs 66 lbs!
A cast basket costs more and is stiffer. Here's a quote from our very own AVS Speaker Yoda, Bill Fitzmaurice. "There are three reasons to use a cast frame. One is to better support a heavy magnet, as cast is stiffer than stamped. The second is for tighter tolerances, also because cast is stiffer. The third is to do double duty as a heat sink. None of these reasons are directly related to driver size."

When you move up to the HSU VTF-3 mk5 hp, HSU uses a cast aluminum basket.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, MDR-V6, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31, XB22. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4. TB Stealth300. LG FH6, RK8, RK7, PK5, PH4. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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post #49 of 56 Old 11-27-2017, 04:13 PM
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Ended up biting on the PB-12. Hoping it's a significant step up from the Emotiva.


Same here. Thanks to everyone for the suggestion. Mine arrives on Wednesday. Can’t wait!!


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post #50 of 56 Old 11-27-2017, 08:54 PM
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Would something like the 15v from power sound audio be a significant upgrade over the PB12?

Looking for a sub in this range, but could go to $1,000 if it is really going to make a difference.

Room is 12 x 19 x 8.
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post #51 of 56 Old 11-27-2017, 11:46 PM
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Would something like the 15v from power sound audio be a significant upgrade over the PB12?

Looking for a sub in this range, but could go to $1,000 if it is really going to make a difference.

Room is 12 x 19 x 8.
I don't know the numbers, but the 15v has a bigger driver and a much more powerful amp, it would have to be an upgrade in max spl if nothing else.
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post #52 of 56 Old 11-28-2017, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by wedontneedroads View Post
Would something like the 15v from power sound audio be a significant upgrade over the PB12?

Looking for a sub in this range, but could go to $1,000 if it is really going to make a difference.

Room is 12 x 19 x 8.
Very significant. The PSA 15V is comparable to the HSU VTF-3 mk5 hp. Both will have at least double the output potential 30Hz and up. The advantage drops some below 30Hz. How much of that would be realized in your fairly small room is up to you. Your room is only a little over 1800 ft^3, which isn't that big. A PB12-NSD should do very well in a room that size, so not sure how much of the additional headroom you would use/need with the 15V. I know in my 2700ft^3 room that dual PB12's are plenty. And I'm somebody who likes a lot of bass when movie watching.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, MDR-V6, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31, XB22. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4. TB Stealth300. LG FH6, RK8, RK7, PK5, PH4. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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post #53 of 56 Old 11-28-2017, 01:11 PM
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Very significant. The PSA 15V is comparable to the HSU VTF-3 mk5 hp. Both will have at least double the output potential 30Hz and up. The advantage drops some below 30Hz. How much of that would be realized in your fairly small room is up to you. Your room is only a little over 1800 ft^3, which isn't that big. A PB12-NSD should do very well in a room that size, so not sure how much of the additional headroom you would use/need with the 15V. I know in my 2700ft^3 room that dual PB12's are plenty. And I'm somebody who likes a lot of bass when movie watching.
It would just be about how low of a frequency i can get right?

2 subs wouldn't help with that though if i understand correctly.

I bought a Polk PSW505, because I didn't really know what I was doing, but am willing to spend up to $1,000 if it's really going to be worth it.

I am by no means a bass head, but want as full an experience from movies and music as possible. From what I am reading it sounds like the PB12-NSD would be plenty. Gonna chat with the folks at PSA a bit more to figure it out.

Thanks for the feedback.
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post #54 of 56 Old 11-29-2017, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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$500 sub recommendations?

After further consideration, I’m still leaning towards the PB-1000 over the PB-12 NSD for the simple fact that I’d like to have the option to eventually go duals, because I really don’t like how a single sub leaves holes in bass response depending on listening position... but I don’t have a $1,000 subwoofer budget right now. If I bought a PB-12 now, there’s no guarantee I could get another one 6 months to a year from now. My understanding is that room EQ cannot eliminate standing waves and improve bass response at multiple seating positions, so dual subs is the only way to fix that problem, and using mis-matched subs is not really recommended... though maybe the two are similar enough it wouldn’t make a huge difference? The specs show that the PB-12 only plays 1Hz lower than the PB-1000, and that both have very flat bass response from 20Hz to 150Hz. The primary difference between them (other than driver size) seems to be component quality and amplifier power. SVS even has response curves on their site:
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-1000
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb12-nsd

Am I overestimating the problem from mis-matched duals, and underestimating the difference between the units? The higher build quality of the PB-12 components and aluminum cone would be nice, and the box is only 2” larger in each direction, so it’s not like the size difference is massive between them. I’ve also heard that the PB-1000 doesn’t have nearly the ‘kick’ that the PB-12 does (less power, smaller driver), but I’m wondering if duals might improve that a little and allow for a little lower bass extension?

I’m by no means a basshead, but I want the lower frequencies to be clear & present (not just boomy) in as much as they should be for movies and music, or even slightly elevated, for a properly balanced/reproduced soundtrack with maybe even a slight punch/kick to it.

My past experience with subs is only with a 10” Onkyo HTIB ported sub and a 12” BIC America V1220 ported sub, so I’m sure anything is bound to be a massive improvement. My complaints with those two is the ill defined boominess to the bass, so I’m looking for something cleaner & clearer, with a more flat response and a little lower extension.

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Denon AVR-X4300H, 5.1 KEF Q100's w/Q200C center, SVS PB1000 on the way. 50" Panasonic Plasma (3D), Xbox One
Previous build - Onkyo HT-S6800 7.1 w/ Infinity Primus P262 towers & PC351 Center, BIC America V1220 sub & 52" Sony XBR LCD

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post #55 of 56 Old 11-29-2017, 09:55 AM
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Look what just arrived. About to connect this bad boy and give it a run. I’m upgrading from a PL-200.


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post #56 of 56 Old 12-02-2017, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have any experience with SVS cylindrical subwoofers? Do they have any significant drawbacks, or do they very closely match their ported box brethren?

PC12 vs PB12, PC2000 vs PB2000, etc... is it pretty much the same great, tight, detailed and hard hitting bass just in a different shaped enclosure? I notice they’re lighter, but a cylinder has less surface area than a box and is naturally a stronger shape, so maybe that doesn’t mean much?

I think they’re actually a pretty sharp and relatively elegant, innovative alternative to an otherwise unattractive home theater accessory


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Denon AVR-X4300H, 5.1 KEF Q100's w/Q200C center, SVS PB1000 on the way. 50" Panasonic Plasma (3D), Xbox One
Previous build - Onkyo HT-S6800 7.1 w/ Infinity Primus P262 towers & PC351 Center, BIC America V1220 sub & 52" Sony XBR LCD
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