Is a 15" sub a significant upgrade from a PB-1000? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 47Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Is a 15" sub a significant upgrade from a PB-1000? *Updated

As some of you may have experienced, I just got the upgrade BUG on my PB-1000. I've been reading various recent threads/posts and have narrowed my options to:

PSA V1500 / HSU vtf-3mk5HP / Rythm FVX15 *I'm somewhat inclined on the PSA as they were the more easy to contact/respond.

Do any of this options are a *big* upgrade or a somewhat lateral move? Any other recommendation? My max budget is $1,400

I originally had an Onkyo HTIB Sub and when upgraded to the PB-1000. Wow!!! It was day/night. There was no contest between the two. Do I expect the same wow factor?

My room is not ideal and somewhat small at 13.4 x 13.9 x 8 but I've working on acoustics panels and calibration. My next step is REW (still waiting the mic to arrive). The rest of my system consists of Chane 2.4 (L-C-R), Emotiva Surrounds, PSB Imagine XA for Atmos and X4300h Receiver. I think anything bigger than 15" will be an overkill for my space.

Update (Dec 05, 2017): I started this thread considering 3 different vented 15" subs and ended with an 18" sealed sub (PSA S1801). I decided on the sealed 18" because it has almost the same FR than 15" vented models but in a smaller footprint; and PSA brand because they were very easy to contact and offered the best shipping price to PR.

So, It's a 15" sub a significant upgrade from a PB-1000? I suppose, but an 18" definitely YES!

Honestly, at first I didn't notice the same WOW! effect that I got the PB-1000 from the HTIB sub. Maybe my HTIB sub was that bad that simply jumping into the $500 sub category (in my small room) made a world of a difference; really don't know. But after playing all weekend with levels, calibration, positions, dual vs single, etc. I can tell that the PSA S1801 is definitely more stronger, clearer and has more mid-bass punch than my PB-1000. In movies, explosions, gun shots, collisions and low frequency effects are so much stronger there's not even a contest. Using the 18" sub near-field made my couch vibrate so strong with all the tactile response that added another dimension in movies. The PB-1000 was no slouch either in TR; making the couch vibrate too. But the felling with the 18" is completely different and more impact full.

So to anyone considering the same upgrade, I think it boils down to budget. If are coming from a HTIB sub, definitely a $500+ premium brand sub will make a day/night difference. But if you already have premium sub, then it's more about bass power and definition. If budget allows definitely make the jump IMHO.

Last edited by webie; 12-05-2017 at 07:12 AM. Reason: Update
webie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 11:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sk373's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked: 985
Every single one of the models you have listed is a *big* upgrade over a PB-1000. At a max budget of $1,400, I strongly suggest looking at a PSA V1801, or even S1801. Jump up to the big 18"! There is no such thing as overkill here in the sub forums!
SuperFist and uniquepattern like this.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
sk373 is offline  
post #3 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 11:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,936
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2684 Post(s)
Liked: 2473
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
As some of you may have experienced, I just got the upgrade BUG on my PB-1000. I've been reading various recent threads/posts and have narrowed my options to:

PSA V1500 / HSU vtf-3mk5HP / Rythm FVX15 *I'm somewhat inclined on the PSA as they were the more easy to contact/respond.

Do any of this options are a *big* upgrade or a somewhat lateral move? Any other recommendation? My max budget is $1,400

I originally had an Onkyo HTIB Sub and when upgraded to the PB-1000. Wow!!! It was day/night. There was no contest between the two. Do I expect the same wow factor?

My room is not ideal and somewhat small at 13.4 x 13.9 x 8 but I've working on acoustics panels and calibration. My next step is REW (still waiting the mic to arrive). The rest of my system consists of Chane 2.4 (L-C-R), Emotiva Surrounds, PSB Imagine XA for Atmos and X4300h Receiver. I think anything bigger than 15" will be an overkill for my space.
Yes!!!! Any of those subs would be a huge upgrade.

At $1400 max budget the best sub is the Rythmik FV15HP at $1338.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Quattron
Kini62 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 12:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,298
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2681 Post(s)
Liked: 3230
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
As some of you may have experienced, I just got the upgrade BUG on my PB-1000. I've been reading various recent threads/posts and have narrowed my options to:

PSA V1500 / HSU vtf-3mk5HP / Rythm FVX15 *I'm somewhat inclined on the PSA as they were the more easy to contact/respond.

Do any of this options are a *big* upgrade or a somewhat lateral move? Any other recommendation? My max budget is $1,400

I originally had an Onkyo HTIB Sub and when upgraded to the PB-1000. Wow!!! It was day/night. There was no contest between the two. Do I expect the same wow factor?

My room is not ideal and somewhat small at 13.4 x 13.9 x 8 but I've working on acoustics panels and calibration. My next step is REW (still waiting the mic to arrive). The rest of my system consists of Chane 2.4 (L-C-R), Emotiva Surrounds, PSB Imagine XA for Atmos and X4300h Receiver. I think anything bigger than 15" will be an overkill for my space.


What are your listening habits? How much music versus movies? IMO the PSA V1500 will be a huge upgrade with room shaking bass. The HSU is definitely a nice sub as well but just based on customer service, Made in USA and warranty I would opt for the PSA. On the other hand the Rythmik will offer the lowest distortion and clean bass and will sound more like a sealed sub. It will great for music if that is your focus. For movies my vote would be for the PSA and then HSU. Either would be a huge upgrade from the PB 1000.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SuperFist likes this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #5 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 12:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sk373's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked: 985
The more that I think about it, the more I think I would recommend going with a big sealed sub in your situation. You have a small room, less than 1500 cu ft. You can chase extension in a room that size, and a big sealed sub like the S1801 would be the way to go, IMHO!
SuperFist likes this.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
sk373 is offline  
post #6 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
At a max budget of $1,400, I strongly suggest looking at a PSA V1801, or even S1801. Jump up to the big 18"! There is no such thing as overkill here in the sub forums!
Thanks! You are probably right. But my budget contemplate shipping to PR which is usually much more expensive. Also 18", wanting duals in the future, will take so much space in my room; and must certainly will not pass WAF. :c)
webie is offline  
post #7 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
What are your listening habits? How much music versus movies? IMO the PSA V1500 will be a huge upgrade with room shaking bass. The HSU is definitely a nice sub as well but just based on customer service, Made in USA and warranty I would opt for the PSA. On the other hand the Rythmik will offer the lowest distortion and clean bass and will sound more like a sealed sub. It will great for music if that is your focus. For movies my vote would be for the PSA and then HSU. Either would be a huge upgrade from the PB 1000.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My listening is about 80% movies 20% music. But that 20% is growing as I'm playing more flac files recently re-ripping my library instead of mp3.

I'm just wandering if the upgrade will be as dramatic as my switch from htib sub to the pb1000? I really can't imagine that.

Thanks!!
SuperFist likes this.
webie is offline  
post #8 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 01:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sk373's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked: 985
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
Thanks! You are probably right. But my budget contemplate shipping to PR which is usually much more expensive. Also 18", wanting duals in the future, will take so much space in my room; and must certainly will not pass WAF. :c)
Gotcha! Well, in that case, I recommend looking at the sealed 15" options from PSA, HSU, and Rythmik! Will have plenty of power in your <1500 cu ft room, and the more compact form factor will help with the WAF!

Dual sealed 15's would be amazing in your room, or even dual L22's from Rythmik! You will benefit massively from room gain--I really think sealed is the way to go, IMHO!

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
sk373 is offline  
post #9 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 02:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MIX_MASTER_ICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,940
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2594 Post(s)
Liked: 2418
The smaller the room, the less impact an upgrade will be. In your small room, the PB-1000 should do well. If you like the PB-1000, what is it you want in an upgrade? Outlaw Audio has their sale up and running now. If you want to go all in, they have the Ultra-X13 b-stock for $999, shipped.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
MIX_MASTER_ICE is offline  
post #10 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
@sk373 , thanks! I'll look into those sealed options. WAF is not much of an issue @ home. She really enjoy the hobby. But I think 18" with possible duals in the future on a living room / media is just pushing; even for myself. But when I get to custom build my own HT room it will be 20"+ ;c)
sk373 likes this.
webie is offline  
post #11 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 03:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sk373's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked: 985
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
@sk373 , thanks! I'll look into those sealed options. WAF is not much of an issue @ home. She really enjoy the hobby. But I think 18" with possible duals in the future on a living room / media is just pushing; even for myself. But when I get to custom build my own HT room it will be 20"+ ;c)
You're welcome! FYI, the S1801's (sealed 18's) aren't any bigger than the ported 15's you are looking at, in terms of cabinet size. Just food for thought!
Transmaniacon likes this.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
sk373 is offline  
post #12 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
@MIX_MASTER_ICE , I do like the PB1000 and was originally planing for a second one to run duals. After placing acoustic panels the bass got more tight and less boomy. So I was able to push the volume more without been annoying. I hardly ever listen at reference; as I'm usually at -10 to -15. But I'm now wandering what is like to go below 20hz. :c)

After some research here apparently those subs will make a lot of difference in ULF and mid bass. Just don't know if it will be so huge like the step from a htib sub to the PB1000. That was huge... From hearing to felling!
webie is offline  
post #13 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 04:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MIX_MASTER_ICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,940
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2594 Post(s)
Liked: 2418
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
@MIX_MASTER_ICE , I do like the PB1000 and was originally planing for a second one to run duals. After placing acoustic panels the bass got more tight and less boomy. So I was able to push the volume more without been annoying. I hardly ever listen at reference; as I'm usually at -10 to -15. But I'm now wandering what is like to go below 20hz. :c)

After some research here apparently those subs will make a lot of difference in ULF and mid bass. Just don't know if it will be so huge like the step from a htib sub to the PB1000. That was huge... From hearing to felling!
The PB-1000 is rated down to the higher teens. In your small rom it should perform well. A bigger sub like the HSU VTF-3 mk5 hp would give you slightly lower extension, but where it would be a big steup up is above 30Hz. Again, this advantage is more noticeable the bigger the room where the headroom is really needed. Dual subs are really the way to go. If you are within your return window, I would send the PB-1000 back and snag a pair of PB12-NSD's SVS has on special for $500/each.
Transmaniacon likes this.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4 HS. Plantronics RIG500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. UE Boom3.
MIX_MASTER_ICE is offline  
post #14 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 04:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SuperFist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,931
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1268 Post(s)
Liked: 4965
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
My listening is about 80% movies 20% music. But that 20% is growing as I'm playing more flac files recently re-ripping my library instead of mp3.
Please don't get me started... now you've got me thinking about doing this myself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
I'm just wandering if the upgrade will be as dramatic as my switch from htib sub to the pb1000? I really can't imagine that.
Ooooooh, my friend... you have no idea!!! You need to read my journey, like you, from an Onkyo HTIB sub to dual Dayton 1200s to PSA's V1500 and then the S3000i:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post54819246

d-rail34 likes this.

Subwoofers: PSA S3000i x 2 | L+R Front: Onkyo SKF-200F | Center: Onkyo SKC-200C | L+R Surround: Onkyo SKM-200S | Atmos: Pioneer SP-T22A-LR | AVR: Yamaha RX-A660BL | HTPC: Lenovo Q190
SuperFist is online now  
post #15 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 04:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sk373's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked: 985
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
@MIX_MASTER_ICE , I do like the PB1000 and was originally planing for a second one to run duals. After placing acoustic panels the bass got more tight and less boomy. So I was able to push the volume more without been annoying. I hardly ever listen at reference; as I'm usually at -10 to -15. But I'm now wandering what is like to go below 20hz. :c)

After some research here apparently those subs will make a lot of difference in ULF and mid bass. Just don't know if it will be so huge like the step from a htib sub to the PB1000. That was huge... From hearing to felling!
The sealed 15's and 18's will make quite a difference in ULF for you, due to room gain. You have a small room very conducive to this. Sealed subs have a much more gradual roll-off than ported. Ported subs have more output around port tune, but fall off rapidly below that.

I wouldn't worry about mid-bass response. All of the subs from the PB-1000 on up will have plenty of mid-bass punch in your room. It's ULF that you want to chase, if you are looking to upgrade.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
sk373 is offline  
post #16 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperFist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
My listening is about 80% movies 20% music. But that 20% is growing as I'm playing more flac files recently re-ripping my library instead of mp3.
Please don't get me started... now you've got me thinking about doing this myself! [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG]
Sorry! But for me (current system) going from old mp3 library to flac was like listening to a movie in Dolby Prologic vs Dolby True HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperFist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ;55175496
I'm just wandering if the upgrade will be as dramatic as my switch from htib sub to the pb1000? I really can't imagine that.
Ooooooh, my friend... you have no idea!!! [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG] You need to read my journey, like you, from an Onkyo HTIB sub to dual Dayton 1200s to PSA's V1500 and then the S3000i:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post54819246

[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/smilies/tango_face_grin.png[/IMG]
Will do, thanks!!!
SuperFist likes this.
webie is offline  
post #17 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
The sealed 15's and 18's will make quite a difference in ULF for you, due to room gain. You have a small room very conducive to this. Sealed subs have a much more gradual roll-off than ported. Ported subs have more output around port tune, but fall off rapidly below that.

I wouldn't worry about mid-bass response. All of the subs from the PB-1000 on up will have plenty of mid-bass punch in your room. It's ULF that you want to chase, if you are looking to upgrade.
Thanks! I'll look into those options tomorrow. My PB1000 is just about 8 months old and I'm already ready to upgrade. But I did planned for a 2nd one around Christmas. Just now instead of spending 500 I'm 3x. This ULF is so addictive...
sk373 likes this.
webie is offline  
post #18 of 68 Old 11-21-2017, 06:36 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 356
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
Thanks! I'll look into those options tomorrow. My PB1000 is just about 8 months old and I'm already ready to upgrade. But I did planned for a 2nd one around Christmas. Just now instead of spending 500 I'm 3x. This ULF is so addictive...
Going from a couple models above your PB1000 , I had the PC12+ and went with the V1500 for a bit and it was a huge improvement...As others have said the S1801 will do very well in your room...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Jsnow17 is offline  
post #19 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 04:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Falconsfan71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,242
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1543 Post(s)
Liked: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
The PB-1000 is rated down to the higher teens. In your small rom it should perform well. A bigger sub like the HSU VTF-3 mk5 hp would give you slightly lower extension, but where it would be a big steup up is above 30Hz. Again, this advantage is more noticeable the bigger the room where the headroom is really needed. Dual subs are really the way to go. If you are within your return window, I would send the PB-1000 back and snag a pair of PB12-NSD's SVS has on special for $500/each.

That’s what I was about to suggest. If he’s had the PB-1000 for less than a year then swap it for two of the PB-12 NSD subs. He would only be out of pocket $500 (plus the shipping cost to return the PB-1000). Two of those in that room would be more than plenty and he could use that other $500-$800 somewhere else like speaker or AVR upgrade if needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Denon X4300H * Def Tech BP8080st front L/R * Def Tech CLR2002 center * Def Tech ProMonitor 800 surrounds (x4) * Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP sub * Outlaw OAW4 wireless sub kit * Vizio 60" 4K HDRtv * Sony UBP-X800 Bluray * PS4 * AC Infinity S9 AVR fan
Falconsfan71 is offline  
post #20 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 05:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Falconsfan71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,242
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1543 Post(s)
Liked: 524
@webie Read my above suggestion. I’ve been through this and upgraded 4 times in less than 3 months. You need dual subs! Two of the PB-12 NSD’s or even the sealed version would be a good upgrade over the PB-1000. Don’t listen to some of these bass heads on here that always recommend 18-22” multiple subs. Next thing you know you’ll have $2,000-$3,000 in subs and after a couple of months will be thinking “What have I done?” I had a couple of smaller subs, a ML Dynamo 500, an RSL Speedwoofer, a PB-2000, dual PB-1000, then dual VTF-3 MK5’s. Depending on your room layout, room size, sub location, and other factors.. really think about what you’re doing. Since you can upgrade the PB-1000 with SVS, if you have room for two PB-2000’s that would be a huge upgrade and you’d only be out of pocket $1,000 plus the PB-1000 shipping cost. I really believe you’d be “wowed!” with two of those in that room.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Denon X4300H * Def Tech BP8080st front L/R * Def Tech CLR2002 center * Def Tech ProMonitor 800 surrounds (x4) * Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP sub * Outlaw OAW4 wireless sub kit * Vizio 60" 4K HDRtv * Sony UBP-X800 Bluray * PS4 * AC Infinity S9 AVR fan
Falconsfan71 is offline  
post #21 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
You're welcome! FYI, the S1801's (sealed 18's) aren't any bigger than the ported 15's you are looking at, in terms of cabinet size. Just food for thought!
Hummm... You are right, it will be smaller and lighter than the V1500 which will probably help a bit in shipping! Now you got me eying those sealed 18" options... Sealed vs Ported, dammmm here goes me down the rabbit hole again...
sk373 likes this.
webie is offline  
post #22 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
@webie Read my above suggestion. I’ve been through this and upgraded 4 times in less than 3 months. You need dual subs! Two of the PB-12 NSD’s or even the sealed version would be a good upgrade over the PB-1000.
But it will be a dramatic upgrade or more like a lateral move (more balanced)? I'm still learning everyday. I'm amazed how much I have learned from just 1yr ago; and coming from a HTIB. I'm now moving to the more intermediate level trying to measure my room. Just downloaded REW; anxiously waiting for my UMIK-1 mic to arrive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
Don’t listen to some of these bass heads on here that always recommend 18-22” multiple subs. Next thing you know you’ll have $2,000-$3,000 in subs and after a couple of months will be thinking “What have I done?” I had a couple of smaller subs, a ML Dynamo 500, an RSL Speedwoofer, a PB-2000, dual PB-1000, then dual VTF-3 MK5’s. Depending on your room layout, room size, sub location, and other factors.. really think about what you’re doing. Since you can upgrade the PB-1000 with SVS, if you have room for two PB-2000’s that would be a huge upgrade and you’d only be out of pocket $1,000 plus the PB-1000 shipping cost. I really believe you’d be “wowed!” with two of those in that room.
Thanks for the suggestion! Was checking the PB-12 NSD’s on SVS but it appears to be sold out. Also I couldn't find any info on the "Upgrade" feature. Was checking, and actually my PB1000 is 1yr 7days old bought at CF w free shipping.. Time flies....
webie is offline  
post #23 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 06:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Falconsfan71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,242
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1543 Post(s)
Liked: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
But it will be a dramatic upgrade or more like a lateral move (more balanced)? I'm still learning everyday. I'm amazed how much I have learned from just 1yr ago; and coming from a HTIB. I'm now moving to the more intermediate level trying to measure my room. Just downloaded REW; anxiously waiting for my UMIK-1 mic to arrive.



Thanks for the suggestion! Was checking the PB-12 NSD’s on SVS but it appears to be sold out. Also I couldn't find any info on the "Upgrade" feature. Was checking, and actually my PB1000 is 1yr 7days old bought at CF w free shipping.. Time flies....


Yea that changes things. You should be able to get $300-$350 for the PB-1000 if it’s in great condition.

*Important info* - What speakers do you have? What setup (5.1, 7.1, Atmos, etc)? What AVR do you have? These should be considered when selecting subs...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Denon X4300H * Def Tech BP8080st front L/R * Def Tech CLR2002 center * Def Tech ProMonitor 800 surrounds (x4) * Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP sub * Outlaw OAW4 wireless sub kit * Vizio 60" 4K HDRtv * Sony UBP-X800 Bluray * PS4 * AC Infinity S9 AVR fan
Falconsfan71 is offline  
post #24 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 06:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sk373's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked: 985
Webie, I know you are getting a lot of different suggestions, and it can be hard to sort through. Do the research. I try to make suggestions based upon what makes sense for the poster, rather than based upon what I have done in my own system.

For example, Falconsfan 71 told you “Don’t listen to some of these bassheads that always recommend 18-22” multiple subs”. Well, that’s all fine and good, but his suggestions are based in large part only on his particular situation—not necessarily yours.

Two PB-12 NSD’s would indeed work well for you. IMHO, I still don’t recommend that route. Why? Because if you’re going to do that, just add one PB-12 NSD and keep your PB-1000. A much cheaper route, and will accomplish the job—the PB-1000 will play nice with the PB-12 NSD. Duals will be smoother with proper placement, and you will have more headroom.

That being said, I am going to reiterate my suggestion for going with a big sealed option—15” or preferably 18”. If you are going to upgrade, make it a real upgrade. Dual PB-12 NSD’s essentially will just give you more of what you have already. Dual ported 15’s, same thing—just more of what you have.

In your size room, a big sealed option will give you what you don’t already have—extension into the single digits. Not to mention, there is no chance of port noise with sealed. In your size room, you will have all the headroom you could want already. IMHO, you should be chasing extension with an upgrade, not just more output. A big sealed option will give you both.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
sk373 is offline  
post #25 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 07:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 6,605
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1785 Post(s)
Liked: 1615
I agree with going sealed in this case. Room gain will allow you to have better output at the lowest frequencies, and the footprint is not much different from the ported subs you are looking at. Multiple larged sealed subs will give you a great response in that room, and be a big upgrade over your PB-1000.

If you venture over the home theater build forum, a lot of the high end projects are using multiple big sealed subs to get down to that ULF.
HappyHT likes this.

5.1: Samsung PN60F5300 | Sony BDP-S1700 | Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | Outlaw Ultra-X12

2.0: Oppo DV-980H | Apple Airport Express | Topping D30 | Parasound HCA-1500a | Chane A1.4
Transmaniacon is online now  
post #26 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 08:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PioManiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,197
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3183 Post(s)
Liked: 7774
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk373 View Post

In your size room, a big sealed option will give you what you don’t already have—extension into the single digits. Not to mention, there is no chance of port noise with sealed. In your size room, you will have all the headroom you could want already. IMHO, you should be chasing extension with an upgrade, not just more output. A big sealed option will give you both.

This! This! This!

I went from dual ported 12's to dual ported 15's,
...and FINALLY got my ULF Fix with Dual Sealed 18's.

If you want to reach single digit frequencies, be aware 10Hz takes 10x more power to be effective, than 25Hz frequencies.
So start with a Good 18" sealed unit for now and add another when the budget allows.

My room isn't much bigger than yours, peak output on my 18's are 4800 watts each



I kept my 15's as rear near field (2000w ea) kidney pounders right behind my center seat..
Spoiler!


So no, you don't need a dozen 18" subs to be happy. (or to be a bass-head)
..and you don't need to spend a ton like I did for a custom walnut finish.
DIY sealed kits can be done on the cheap. Link:https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/

Transmaniacon, sk373 and HappyHT like this.

The Unfinished Basement Theater & Whisky Guitar Lounge | Bass EQ for Filtered Movies
JVC DLA X750 4K Projector | 120" Powered Drop Screen | 65" LG 65B6P OLED | Panasonic DMP UB900 | Oppo UDP 203 | HDFury Vertex
Yamaha RX-A3070 | 7.4.4.4 | Mission M3i x11 | Funk Audio 18.0 x2 | Velodyne DLS 5000R x2 | Crowson LvL3 MA x4 | miniDSP 2x4HD

Last edited by PioManiac; 11-22-2017 at 11:34 AM.
PioManiac is offline  
post #27 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 09:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sk373's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked: 985
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
This! This! This!

I went from dual ported 12's to dual ported 15's,
...and FINALLY got my ULF Fix with Dual Sealed 18's.

If you want to reach single digit frequencies, be aware 10Hz it takes 10x more power to be effective than 25Hz frequencies.
So start with a Good 18" sealed unit for now and add another when the budget allows.

My room isn't much bigger than yours, peak output on my 18's are 4800 watts each



I kept my 15's as rear near field (2000w ea) kidney pounders right behind my center seat..
Spoiler!


So no, you don't need a dozen 18" subs to be happy. (or to be a bass-head)
..and you don't need to spend a ton like I did for a custom walnut finish.
DIY sealed kits can be done on the cheap. Link:https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/

I am drooling over those Funks! Someday, I will have those, someday . . . .

😳😎😳😎😳😎
Jsnow17 likes this.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
sk373 is offline  
post #28 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
*Important info* - What speakers do you have? What setup (5.1, 7.1, Atmos, etc)? What AVR do you have? These should be considered when selecting subs...
Running 5.1.4 / Denon x4300h / Chane's 2.4 (L-C-R), Emotiva E1 Surrounds, PSB Imagine XA for Atmos.

I'm not a basshead, far from it. But I do really enjoy the low frequency effect on movies. That feeling on explosions, earthquakes, rockets since I upgraded to the PB1000 was an eye opener. Now I want to experience what is like going below my current ~19hz.
webie is offline  
post #29 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 07:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sk373's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked: 985
Quote:
Originally Posted by webie View Post
Running 5.1.4 / Denon x4300h / Chane's 2.4 (L-C-R), Emotiva E1 Surrounds, PSB Imagine XA for Atmos.

I'm not a basshead, far from it. But I do really enjoy the low frequency effect on movies. That feeling on explosions, earthquakes, rockets since I upgraded to the PB1000 was an eye opener. Now I want to experience what is like going below my current ~19hz.
Then you definitely want to go with a big sealed system. I know I sound like a broken record, but if you’re looking for ULF, sealed is the way to go in your room!

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Denon 4300H AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
sk373 is offline  
post #30 of 68 Old 11-22-2017, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
webie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
Webie, I know you are getting a lot of different suggestions, and it can be hard to sort through. Do the research. I try to make suggestions based upon what makes sense for the poster, rather than based upon what I have done in my own system.

For example, Falconsfan 71 told you ?Don?t listen to some of these bassheads that always recommend 18-22? multiple subs?. Well, that?s all fine and good, but his suggestions are based in large part only on his particular situation?not necessarily yours.

Two PB-12 NSD?s would indeed work well for you. IMHO, I still don?t recommend that route. Why? Because if you?re going to do that, just add one PB-12 NSD and keep your PB-1000. A much cheaper route, and will accomplish the job?the PB-1000 will play nice with the PB-12 NSD. Duals will be smoother with proper placement, and you will have more headroom.

That being said, I am going to reiterate my suggestion for going with a big sealed option?15? or preferably 18?. If you are going to upgrade, make it a real upgrade. Dual PB-12 NSD?s essentially will just give you more of what you have already. Dual ported 15?s, same thing?just more of what you have.

In your size room, a big sealed option will give you what you don?t already have?extension into the single digits. Not to mention, there is no chance of port noise with sealed. In your size room, you will have all the headroom you could want already. IMHO, you should be chasing extension with an upgrade, not just more output. A big sealed option will give you both.
Thank you very much! I think I'll be going the PSA route. They were easy to communicate. Remembered my experience with Chane speakers. I like that type of customer service.

My next step is deciding between 15, 18 or probably the S3000i. Still reading and researching. In the meantime maybe one of them hit the outlet. :cD
sk373 and Jsnow17 like this.
webie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off