I Hate Subwoofers! I Just BOUGHT Subwoofers!.....Advice? - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 295 Old 12-16-2017, 08:27 PM
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Can you just move the equipment into this room or is it also utilized in another system?

There has to be options

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post #212 of 295 Old 12-16-2017, 11:09 PM
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I think an external crossover like the CR-1 is the best solution. It seems way overpriced though. I would try out the most current Rane, the AC23s.

http://www.rane.com/ac23s.html

Edit: actually, you should get in touch with these folks: http://www.marchandelec.com/xovers.html
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post #213 of 295 Old 12-17-2017, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I think an external crossover like the CR-1 is the best solution. It seems way overpriced though. I would try out the most current Rane, the AC23s.

http://www.rane.com/ac23s.html

Edit: actually, you should get in touch with these folks: http://www.marchandelec.com/xovers.html
As luck would have it, working late tonight and perusing Audiogon, I happened to spot a JL Audio CR-1 that was just listed a few hours ago. Mint condition, barely used, and at a price well below the best used price I've seen before. So I snatched it for $1,800.

Yeah, that's still expensive, but nothing like the near $5,000 CAD (after tax) it would cost me buying new, so I'm very damned happy! Just in time!
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post #214 of 295 Old 12-18-2017, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
As luck would have it, working late tonight and perusing Audiogon, I happened to spot a JL Audio CR-1 that was just listed a few hours ago. Mint condition, barely used, and at a price well below the best used price I've seen before. So I snatched it for $1,800.

Yeah, that's still expensive, but nothing like the near $5,000 CAD (after tax) it would cost me buying new, so I'm very damned happy! Just in time!

Congrats!. Nice piece of kit.
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post #215 of 295 Old 12-18-2017, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Congrats!. Nice piece of kit.
Yeah, as this is quite an experiment I'm trying to buy items that I can re-sell if necessary without a loss. The CR-1s go quite quickly on the used market. I also bought the JL 110 subs on sale.
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post #216 of 295 Old 12-18-2017, 09:20 AM
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Yeah, as this is quite an experiment I'm trying to buy items that I can re-sell if necessary without a loss. The CR-1s go quite quickly on the used market. I also bought the JL 110 subs on sale.

Btw, Rich, I got the Umik and have REW as I mentioned in my thread so I was searching youtube for useful vids on how to do all this stuff. I ran across this one, which is hilarious that a 12 or 13 yr old kid had this much knowledge about measurements and integrating subs and presented it so succinctly. I supposed this kid started MIT or equivalent at age 9 or something, but this is really good if he'd talk just a bit slower. Prolly a 200 IQ with this one.


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post #217 of 295 Old 12-18-2017, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, as this is quite an experiment I'm trying to buy items that I can re-sell if necessary without a loss. The CR-1s go quite quickly on the used market. I also bought the JL 110 subs on sale.
Very nice. That seems to be exactly what your looking for. $1800 is a lot but it sounds like the other options were not cheap and required a fair amount of labor so that makes the CR-1 more sensible IMO.

I should have my E110 here tomorrow. It will be interesting to compare it to this Rythmik F12se. The bar is set very high, I can tell you that. Im interested to hear your thoughts on the E110's after you get them integrated.

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post #218 of 295 Old 12-18-2017, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Btw, Rich, I got the Umik and have REW as I mentioned in my thread so I was searching youtube for useful vids on how to do all this stuff.
There's this forum full of helpful people as well.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html
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post #219 of 295 Old 12-18-2017, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
There's this forum full of helpful people as well.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html

Thanks. I noticed that 800 page thread. It's just that sometimes I learn better by watching.
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post #220 of 295 Old 12-22-2017, 07:09 PM
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@R Harkness when do you expect to receive the JL CR-1?

Someone in Scott's thread mentioned the HSU Research High-End Crossover. It looks interesting but is only single-ended. I prefer XLR but it becomes a more complex device since it operates purely in the analog domain. Seems to be a good low cost alternative along with the Rane.

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The Ino Audio crossover isn't digital at all, it's active analogue, tuneable and not using typical LR filter topology. It probably isn't using textbook filter topology at all, but I'd think the closest textbook one would be a 6th order Bessel or so.

@Nightlord can you post a picture of the Ino cr80es back panel? Where might one buy one of these in 2017/2018?

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post #221 of 295 Old 12-22-2017, 07:47 PM
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@R Harkness when do you expect to receive the JL CR-1?

Someone in Scott's thread mentioned the HSU Research High-End Crossover. It looks interesting but is only single-ended. I prefer XLR but it becomes a more complex device since it operates purely in the analog domain. Seems to be a good low cost alternative along with the Rane.


@Nightlord can you post a picture of the Ino cr80es back panel? Where might one buy one of these in 2017/2018?

That link didn't work for me so it might not for others. Interesting idea so let's try this link to see if this works


http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/...crossover.html
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post #222 of 295 Old 12-22-2017, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
That link didn't work for me so it might not for others. Interesting idea so let's try this link to see if this works


http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/...crossover.html
Thanks… corrected my post.
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post #223 of 295 Old 12-22-2017, 08:19 PM
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Thanks… corrected my post.

Welcome.

Got to learn the Umik and REW first to get some baseline measurements, and then see if old Jim Bongiorno x-over works to give this a shot. No reason it shouldn't, I just never thought of this. (I'm saying that more and more these days) There are probably much better sounding x-overs available today than that ancient one with likely dried up internals. Got to open it up to see if there's anything inside that might grenade when I plug it in.
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post #224 of 295 Old 12-22-2017, 11:52 PM
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@Nightlord can you post a picture of the Ino cr80es back panel? Where might one buy one of these in 2017/2018?
Sure, this is off the cr80s (which is the more common version, the -e- version has even tighter specs and copper in the chassis), but they are identical from the back.
If you were looking for XLR, there are none.


Do note the clever upside-down text... doesn't look all that good from here, but when you're standing over it from the front looking down - you'll appreciate it.

You can only buy it at Ino Audio in Stockholm Sweden, and if it's not in stock at the time you'll have to come back and pick it up later, as Ino do not ship.
(it's one of the means used to keep customer numbers down to a managable level, this company does not plan on growing). Or one can get lucky and find one 2nd hand
on the used gear market - that's how I got hold of my two (cr80es in the cinema, cr80s in the livingroom)

It might happen one day that Guru Audio start selling bass modules too, in which case they'll probably be very close to Ino, but more visually designed... and at that point, I would think they'd offer a crossover similar to this - but prettier packaged.
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post #225 of 295 Old 01-08-2018, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Well,

Next weekend I'm picking up my JL Audio CR-1 crossover. This week I should receive the second-hand Dspeaker Anti-Node device I bought, for dsping the subwoofer should I choose to.

So next weekend I think I'll be able to finally try integrating the subwoofers via crossing over to the mains to see if I get all those good things people speak about.

At the moment my two subs are still along my front wall, behind my main speakers. I really, really, really dislike the look of subwoofers and would love not to have to see these things at all. I have space for one of them behind my sofa, which would mean a sort of diagonal set up (one of the arrangements recommended by JL Audio) and I'm hoping that works so at least one sub can be hidden. Though if I do an 80Hz crossover or thereabouts, I'm worried I may be able to identify the location of the sub behind the sofa, so we'll see.

I still hate subwoofers at this point. What an amazing hassle just to add those lower frequencies!

I just hope the end results will change my mind; otherwise I'll have a whole bunch of equipment to sell soon.
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post #226 of 295 Old 01-08-2018, 01:07 PM
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Well,

Next weekend I'm picking up my JL Audio CR-1 crossover. This week I should receive the second-hand Dspeaker Anti-Node device I bought, for dsping the subwoofer should I choose to.

So next weekend I think I'll be able to finally try integrating the subwoofers via crossing over to the mains to see if I get all those good things people speak about.

At the moment my two subs are still along my front wall, behind my main speakers. I really, really, really dislike the look of subwoofers and would love not to have to see these things at all. I have space for one of them behind my sofa, which would mean a sort of diagonal set up (one of the arrangements recommended by JL Audio) and I'm hoping that works so at least one sub can be hidden. Though if I do an 80Hz crossover or thereabouts, I'm worried I may be able to identify the location of the sub behind the sofa, so we'll see.

I still hate subwoofers at this point. What an amazing hassle just to add those lower frequencies!

I just hope the end results will change my mind; otherwise I'll have a whole bunch of equipment to sell soon.

Yep! As expected, I never got around to sending my SVS subs back so there they are back in the boxes taking up room in the basement. All of this hassle to for another 10hz or so extension. Good thing is that the better sounding ended up being the smaller of the two pair of subs, the ML 700s vs the SVSs. The speakers by themselves, were good down to the mid 30s, and with the ML subs, low to mid 20s. All of this worth it, hell no, but do I try anyway, hell ya. The best that came out of this is a got a Umik and learned a little about REW.
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post #227 of 295 Old 01-08-2018, 07:51 PM
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I really, really, really dislike the look of subwoofers and would love not to have to see these things at all.
Maybe you can get Salk to make you some of their end-table style Rythmik-based subs.
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post #228 of 295 Old 01-08-2018, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe you can get Salk to make you some of their end-table style Rythmik-based subs.
Thanks for the tip. It's just about impossible IMO to make a subwoofer look good, but Salk comes pretty close.

Unfortunately that's not the solution for me. The room is smallish and is already packed with speakers: surround speakers, big L/C/R speakers, and my stereo L/R Thiel speakers sitting out from those. I did a black velvet wall and slight black velvet "stage" area in front of the screen, and having covered the home theater L/C/R speakers in black velvet, they disappear nicely against the black velvet background and don't take up much visual presence. But adding even one other visible speaker in the room tips it over into just too much - looking like an audio store more than a normal room.

I've got my subs covered with velvet, sitting on the black velvet stage, but if I could I would put both out of sight. And space-wise there is absolutely nowhere else to put a sub except along the front wall or one behind the sofa.
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post #229 of 295 Old 01-09-2018, 12:18 AM
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I still hate subwoofers at this point. What an amazing hassle just to add those lower frequencies!

I just hope the end results will change my mind; otherwise I'll have a whole bunch of equipment to sell soon.
Hope it will...

I can't exactly sign up to that mantra... with 8x 12" in the livingroom, 6x 12" in the cinema and 4x 10" in the tv-room.

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post #230 of 295 Old 01-09-2018, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Hope it will...

I can't exactly sign up to that mantra... with 8x 12" in the livingroom, 6x 12" in the cinema and 4x 10" in the tv-room.
Hold on....I may be misunderstanding.

Do you mean for instance in the living room you have a single sube 8inches X 12inches...or do you actually mean you have EIGHT subwoofers in your living room (six in the cinema, etc)?
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post #231 of 295 Old 01-09-2018, 08:00 AM
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Hold on....I may be misunderstanding.

Do you mean for instance in the living room you have a single sube 8inches X 12inches...or do you actually mean you have EIGHT subwoofers in your living room (six in the cinema, etc)?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post22630405
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post #232 of 295 Old 01-09-2018, 10:36 AM
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Hold on....I may be misunderstanding.

Do you mean for instance in the living room you have a single sube 8inches X 12inches...or do you actually mean you have EIGHT subwoofers in your living room (six in the cinema, etc)?
Yes, we have 18 subwoofers in the house in total..

This is not the latest livingroom iteration, we have a 4K flatscreen today, and I'm running a Krell preamp now - but you get the drift:


Cinema is harder to show as they are hidden today, but a pic from the early part of the build:


TV-room isn't possible to show in any good way as they are spread out; one in the front, one in the back at two to the right side.

They are purple
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post #233 of 295 Old 01-09-2018, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, we have 18 subwoofers in the house in total..

This is not the latest livingroom iteration, we have a 4K flatscreen today, but you get the drift:


Cinema is harder to show as they are hidden today, but a pic from the early part of the build:


TV-room isn't possible to show in any good way as they are spread out; one in the front, one in the back at two to the right side.

They are purple


Yikes! That's nuts.

And if even other obsessive audiophiles like me think you've gone too far...you KNOW you're nuts.

(As someone with sensitive hearing, just entering your house would scare me. But...to each his own! Clearly your system gives you lots of pleasure and that's what it's all about. I'm amazed you got all that past the WAF factor...but perhaps you have no WAF factor?).
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post #234 of 295 Old 01-09-2018, 10:54 AM
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Married 8 years upcoming fall, 13 years in total.

The greens are impossible to do justice on a photo, as they are glossy they overreact to flash. They are much more pleasingly discrete IRL. And the sheer size of them seems to make people ignore them for some reason... no visitors ever say something.

Purple was picked as that's my wife's favourite color. They are matte and disappear quite well with lights out.

My wife likes to play loud too on occassion... although she can be quite content with her iPhone too. Did get her Etymotic earplugs for christmas now, so it sounds a bit better.

Yes, I can rattle the house if I want to. The greens are boosted quite a bit in the infrasonics, so they dig deep if asked to. (Only tv-room ones are bass reflex, the other ones are sealed enclosures - I prefer that, but you need larger numbers then.)

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Looks like you made a good catch with the wife, Nightlord.

My wife is inherently fearful and allergic to any changes to our house, decor or otherwise. Literally hammering in another nail to hang a picture puts her into distress. And yet she has "allowed" me to do quite a bit of crazy stuff in our house, including an extensive renovation turning our front living room into a home theater/AV room. So I also consider myself lucky.
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post #236 of 295 Old 01-13-2018, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi again folks,

Just wanted to pass this question through the mill here:

My subwoofers are against the front wall and to make them blend in I have covered them in black velvet. It's the same Devore Viscose Black Velvet that I used for part of my home theater. This is a black velvet touted by members of the AVforums as being acoustically transparent to the degree I think some even used it as speaker grill material. Before I employed it in my system I tested it in front of speakers and it was very transparent, though I could hear a teeny but distinct bit of roll-off in the "airy" frequencies. (I believe one member had said it just required an eq boost of about 1.5db to compensate for the material).

In the case of my subwoofers, I'm making a couple of velvet covers which will also cover the drivers (I'm taking the original grills off the subs). Though I wouldn't put this material over high end speakers for critical listening, my thinking is it should be fine covering the subwoofer drivers, as the sub frequencies I'm likely to employ are so low that I'd never hear ill effects from the velvet covering them.

Make sense? Or might I be missing something?
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post #237 of 295 Old 01-13-2018, 06:09 PM
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Naturally , I just dont like subwoofers in the first place. Period. I prefer a good sounding home theater system.
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Naturally , I just dont like subwoofers in the first place. Period. I prefer a good sounding home theater system.
Umm, what?

My humble main system:
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post #239 of 295 Old 01-14-2018, 04:29 AM
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Hi again folks,

Just wanted to pass this question through the mill here:

My subwoofers are against the front wall and to make them blend in I have covered them in black velvet. It's the same Devore Viscose Black Velvet that I used for part of my home theater. This is a black velvet touted by members of the AVforums as being acoustically transparent to the degree I think some even used it as speaker grill material. Before I employed it in my system I tested it in front of speakers and it was very transparent, though I could hear a teeny but distinct bit of roll-off in the "airy" frequencies. (I believe one member had said it just required an eq boost of about 1.5db to compensate for the material).

In the case of my subwoofers, I'm making a couple of velvet covers which will also cover the drivers (I'm taking the original grills off the subs). Though I wouldn't put this material over high end speakers for critical listening, my thinking is it should be fine covering the subwoofer drivers, as the sub frequencies I'm likely to employ are so low that I'd never hear ill effects from the velvet covering them.

Make sense? Or might I be missing something?
It's totally fine. Don't hang it so close that you'll see it move - that might get distracting...

It the subwoofers are very large, you could put a piece of insulation on the baffel (with cutouts for driver and port of course) if you are covering it anyway and you will reduce any standing waves and big reflections off that surface). Other dampening material is just as fine if you don't want insulation in room.

Codename - the Larch theater
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post #240 of 295 Old 01-14-2018, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Hi again folks,

Just wanted to pass this question through the mill here:

My subwoofers are against the front wall and to make them blend in I have covered them in black velvet. It's the same Devore Viscose Black Velvet that I used for part of my home theater. This is a black velvet touted by members of the AVforums as being acoustically transparent to the degree I think some even used it as speaker grill material. Before I employed it in my system I tested it in front of speakers and it was very transparent, though I could hear a teeny but distinct bit of roll-off in the "airy" frequencies. (I believe one member had said it just required an eq boost of about 1.5db to compensate for the material).

In the case of my subwoofers, I'm making a couple of velvet covers which will also cover the drivers (I'm taking the original grills off the subs). Though I wouldn't put this material over high end speakers for critical listening, my thinking is it should be fine covering the subwoofer drivers, as the sub frequencies I'm likely to employ are so low that I'd never hear ill effects from the velvet covering them.

Make sense? Or might I be missing something?
It's totally fine. Don't hang it so close that you'll see it move - that might get distracting...

It the subwoofers are very large, you could put a piece of insulation on the baffel (with cutouts for driver and port of course) if you are covering it anyway and you will reduce any standing waves and big reflections off that surface). Other dampening material is just as fine if you don't want insulation in room.



( Yes. that's 12" drivers even if they don't look the part there... Or rather 12" cone area - would be at least 13" speced by the basket as typically done. )

Codename - the Larch theater

Last edited by Nightlord; 01-14-2018 at 04:36 AM.
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