its time - moving from Seaton Submersives to JTR Captivators - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 01-25-2018, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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its time - moving from Seaton Submersives to JTR Captivators

Hi all,

Been contemplating this for sometime now. Today Chad B performed calibration on my RS520 (the results were phenomenal btw, more on this on a separate thread) and he was going to do Audessy pro calibration on my system. During the process, he pointed out that one of my Seatons Subs was flashing 4 RED LED and no output... After a bit of research, I'm fairly certain that the amp is dead. Given that I purchase 2 of the 4 of the Seatons back in 2012, it was just my luck that it was one of them that gave out and is now out of warranty.

I have always wondered what the JTRs would be like in my environment, my room is completely sealed with the dimensions of 11'x21'x9'. 4 Submersives was fantastic but I think its time to satisfy the curiousity. Here is the plan... Either repair or replace the dead 2400W amp and keep 2 of the Seatons and move them upstairs to a more modest, smaller home theater and where I mostly listen to music. Sell the other 2 and sell the Rythmik F15HP that I currently have in the other room.

Now I'm down to either 2 Captivator 2400 or 2 Captivator 4000ULFs

I have room for only two and they would be both in the back of my theater. See the attached JPEGs.

Two C4000s would be about ~$6800-6900
Two C2400s would be ~$5000-5100

Question for the folks here, I think with 4 sealed subs, I had pretty good coverage. Now I'm going down to two and both of the subs will be at the rear of the theater. Guys see any issues or drawbacks to this one? I don't have an option of putting the JTRs up front as I don't have the height to accommodate without blocking the screen.

I think 2 C2400s would do the job and then some in that room but 2 C4000s, I will never play the "what if" game and it would be the end to my upgrade desires... lol yea right!

Need advice, coaching, opinions...

thanks!
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post #2 of 17 Old 01-26-2018, 05:33 PM
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How about a picture of the front of your HT to give us a better idea?

You can always lay a 4000ULF or 2400ULF on its side... That's only 20.5" tall

Like this:

Cap 4000ULF:


Cap 2400ULF:


Besides, your fronts JTR 212HT are 16.5″ tall laid on their sides so the subs your are considering are just 4 inches taller...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 01-26-2018 at 06:38 PM.
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post #3 of 17 Old 01-26-2018, 05:53 PM
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If money and size are really not an issue, I'd totally go for the ULF 4000s, pretty much the most powerful commercial subs available. You might also consider Deep Sea Sound 24" subs and Rythmik FV25HPs.
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post #4 of 17 Old 01-27-2018, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
How about a picture of the front of your HT to give us a better idea?

You can always lay a 4000ULF or 2400ULF on its side... That's only 20.5" tall

Like this:

Cap 4000ULF:


Cap 2400ULF:


Besides, your fronts JTR 212HT are 16.5″ tall laid on their sides so the subs your are considering are just 4 inches taller...
First picture is when I do 2.35 to 1. The JTRs are all sideways so they don't block the screen.

Second picture is 16 x 9. I don't like losing lumens and I feel like HDR is too dark in 2.35 to 1 so I think I'm going to keep it this way for now.

couple of shots in the back of the theater which is where I was thinking of putting two 2400ULF or 4000ULF.

I also talked to Mark Seaton and he is saying I should go with 4 F18+ in the fronts and keep a master/slave submersive in the back.

I got options.
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post #5 of 17 Old 01-30-2018, 06:50 PM
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If it was up to me, I would get 2 Cap 4000ULF's. Have you seen the results on data bass? The single most powerful subwoofer on the planet. Nothing even comes close to the Cap 4000ULF!
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post #6 of 17 Old 01-31-2018, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
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If it was up to me, I would get 2 Cap 4000ULF's. Have you seen the results on data bass? The single most powerful subwoofer on the planet. Nothing even comes close to the Cap 4000ULF!
I don't doubt it, though I'd be interested to see how it compares to a 24" deep sea sound sub.

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post #7 of 17 Old 01-31-2018, 07:31 AM
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The CAP 4000ULF delivered 108db at 10HZ. I don't think the deep sea can compare at that frequency. No disrespect intended. The CAP has 2 60 pound 18 inch drivers.
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post #8 of 17 Old 01-31-2018, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post
The CAP 4000ULF delivered 108db at 10HZ. I don't think the deep sea can compare at that frequency. No disrespect intended. The CAP has 2 60 pound 18 inch drivers.
The Deep Sea Sound Mariana gets usable output to 7Hz in-room, has a 24" driver that weighs 145 lbs., with a magnet that weighs 80 lbs., and a 4K watt RMS speaker power amp. So, no slouch either.
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post #9 of 17 Old 01-31-2018, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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what would I miss if I go with 2 x Cap4000 ULF from 4 Subm?

could I integrate 2 of the Subm and place them nearfield while 2 of the 4000s in the back? I know Ported and Sealed mixing is difficult to do but I'm curious if the sealed are nearfield if it matters a great deal.
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post #10 of 17 Old 01-31-2018, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
The Deep Sea Sound Mariana gets usable output to 7Hz in-room, has a 24" driver that weighs 145 lbs., with a magnet that weighs 80 lbs., and a 4K watt RMS speaker power amp. So, no slouch either.

I saw the frequency response of the Deep Sea, it rolls off below below 16Hz. Its down to 94db at 10Hz vs. 108db at 10Hz for the CAP4000ULF.
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post #11 of 17 Old 01-31-2018, 10:09 AM
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Why is the only sub location in the rear, why not put the dual 2400s up front where your other subs are situated? JTR has a version of the 2400 with the driver in the end of the cabinet (think 4000 cut in half). BTW, I would be afraid to have dual 2400 let alone dual 4000 that close to my seat in the back!
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post #12 of 17 Old 02-01-2018, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking of doing the Cap4000ULF LP... that would put the two Cap4Ks behind the 2nd row about 2 feet and about 8 feet from the MLP...

That too crazy?

upfront, the regular Cap4Ks turn on theirs sides would fit. It does extend out to about 41" from the wall, which puts the two subs about 5 feet in front of the MLP.

I could always do one regular 4K up front and one in the back...
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post #13 of 17 Old 02-01-2018, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by point1 View Post
I was thinking of doing the Cap4000ULF LP... that would put the two Cap4Ks behind the 2nd row about 2 feet and about 8 feet from the MLP...

That too crazy?

upfront, the regular Cap4Ks turn on theirs sides would fit. It does extend out to about 41" from the wall, which puts the two subs about 5 feet in front of the MLP.

I could always do one regular 4K up front and one in the back...
Before you carry 265 lb subwoofers into the room, you might as well slide your SubMersives into the expected woofer locations to verify how the room responds driven from those locations. The wrong spot can easily cost you 6-12dB in output over important ranges. You can approximate locations by locating the center of the SubMersive box with the expected center of 4000ULF /4000ULF-UP woofers - 40" or 20" from the wall and centered on the face of the box.
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post #14 of 17 Old 02-03-2018, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Before you carry 265 lb subwoofers into the room, you might as well slide your SubMersives into the expected woofer locations to verify how the room responds driven from those locations. The wrong spot can easily cost you 6-12dB in output over important ranges. You can approximate locations by locating the center of the SubMersive box with the expected center of 4000ULF /4000ULF-UP woofers - 40" or 20" from the wall and centered on the face of the box.
Thank Mark for the suggestion. Marc Alexander who happens to live less than 10 miles away from me came by and help me out. We moved the subs around, he took measurements and suggested the best locations for the Submersives.

I came away understanding better about my room. He also brought his Cap 2400ULF tall. It was an eye opening experience.

I ended up order 3 Cap 2400ULF tall from Jeff yesterday. I'm going to repurpose the Submersives upstairs because nothing beats them in music IMHO and I own a Rythmik Sub also.


Thanks all and special thanks to @Marc Alexander
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post #15 of 17 Old 02-03-2018, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by point1 View Post
Thank Mark for the suggestion. Marc Alexander who happens to live less than 10 miles away from me came by and help me out. We moved the subs around, he took measurements and suggested the best locations for the Submersives.

I came away understanding better about my room. He also brought his Cap 2400ULF tall. It was an eye opening experience.

I ended up order 3 Cap 2400ULF tall from Jeff yesterday. I'm going to repurpose the Submersives upstairs because nothing beats them in music IMHO and I own a Rythmik Sub also.


Thanks all and special thanks to @Marc Alexander
@Marc Alexander knows what he is talking about. He goes out of his way to share his knowledge and experience and help others. He was very helpful to me as well when I was looking for subs for my room. You are lucky to have access to him.
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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-03-2018, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Marc knows his stuff and then some. A Gentlemen and an audio scholar.


I can't wait for his site to come up.
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post #17 of 17 Old 02-03-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Before you carry 265 lb subwoofers into the room, you might as well slide your SubMersives into the expected woofer locations to verify how the room responds driven from those locations. The wrong spot can easily cost you 6-12dB in output over important ranges. You can approximate locations by locating the center of the SubMersive box with the expected center of 4000ULF /4000ULF-UP woofers - 40" or 20" from the wall and centered on the face of the box.
This was an important exercise. We were able to dramatically improve things with the Submersives. At the end of the day the Cap 2400ULF I brought over provided what was missing. The violent TR that ported provides on hard slabs.
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