Help! No real bass from PB-4000 with Yamaha RX-A3070 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Help! No real bass from PB-4000 with Yamaha RX-A3070

This's probably a better section to post my question. I'm very new to this and with help from my original thread, I bought a setup for my home theater. I've Klipsch RP speakers for my 5.2 setup with Yamaha RX-A3070 as the receiver. For the subwoofers, I bought 2 of the SVS PB-4000. I set everything up and Klipsch speakers sound great, but most of the bass I hear is coming from center and the fronts and there's hardly any "thumping" from the subs. I've seen video where I could see the subs shaking but nothing like that happens in my setting.

Here's what I've done so far based on all the reading. I tried setting everything using the YPAO Auto, that didn't sound good. Then changed the setting manually for all speakers to Low, 80Hz, LFE as Off, Level at -10 to -3 and Subs volume at -10db. None of this's working. Any help would be appreciated.

thanks

Here's the screenshot of the back of the receiver and subs...
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post #2 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeallofu View Post
This's probably a better section to post my question. I'm very new to this and with help from my original thread, I bought a setup for my home theater. I've Klipsch RP speakers for my 5.2 setup with Yamaha RX-A3070 as the receiver. For the subwoofers, I bought 2 of the SVS PB-4000. I set everything up and Klipsch speakers sound great, but most of the bass I hear is coming from center and the fronts and there's hardly any "thumping" from the subs. I've seen video where I could see the subs shaking but nothing like that happens in my setting.

Here's what I've done so far based on all the reading. I tried setting everything using the YPAO Auto, that didn't sound good. Then changed the setting manually for all speakers to Low, 80Hz, LFE as Off, Level at -10 to -3 and Subs volume at -10db. None of this's working. Any help would be appreciated.

thanks

Here's the screenshot of the back of the receiver and subs...
Something is definitely set up wrong, because it should be rumbling with that set up! I own a yamaha rx-a3050 with two svs pb-2000 subs. hmm. Let me take stab at it. So, LFE as off? I think that is what actually drives the signal to your subs? Shouldn't that be on? How is it wired to the subs? You should be running from the sub out on the receiver(double check you plugged into the correct spot,by the center channel rca out) to the LFE IN(RIGHT) on the subwoofer. Make sure you have your wiring correct, and then double check it again. Power? Last but not least, never hurts to try a different wire, cheap thing to try, but unlikely to be it.

My subs have a volume knob on the back that you set at 12 o'clock before you run the YPAO, but it looks like yours do not?

If the wiring is right, the LFE is on, you could do a a complete "reset" on the Yamaha to factory settings for the receiver and then go from there. I once bought a used Yamaha receiver and it was not working correctly and once I did the reset on the receiver everything started working. Hope that gives you a few things to try out.

Last edited by James Stephens 2; 01-28-2018 at 07:31 AM.
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post #3 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 07:13 AM
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I don't have any subs, but I would think LFE should be enabled.

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post #4 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 07:25 AM
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I just looked through the 3070 owner's manual, and I didn't see anything indicating that you could turn "LFE" on or off. There are settings to "Use Normal/Reverse" or "Not Use/None" the subs under manual setup.
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post #5 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 07:31 AM
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1st Run YPAO "Auto" to EQ your Speakers/Subs and set the correct distances/delays.
Then go to Manual mode and change your speakers to "Small" not Low, 80Hz is a good crossover.
Parametric EQ to "Flat"

In manual mode, turn on "test tone" and use an SPL meter to level match all your speakers,
Adjust your subs levels to read about 10dB higher than your speakers.
(Adjust the gain on the sub so the level in the AVR is close to "0")

There are no LFE settings in Yamaha AVR's,
they send all <120Hz LFE frequencies to the sub by default.
+ all frequencies below the crossover point from your speakers set to small.

That's all you need, don't turn on Extra Bass from the options menu.

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post #6 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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The LFE setting is on the Subs, not the AVR... Since there's no knobs on the subs, it's controlled through an app... please see a screenshot from the app of the SVS Subs... should I turn it ON?
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post #7 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Here're some pics from the setting after manual adjustment:
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post #8 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 08:11 AM
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is Airplay your only source?

I don't use any of those settings you posted from the options menus,
You may want to try playing a Bluray movie that you know has great bass.

To make sure your SVS is setup properly, try posting here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...pc-4000-a.html

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post #9 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 08:29 AM
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The volume setting on the sub is too low. Turn the volume on the sub up little more. You're aiming to be closer to -5 or lower after calibration. Set all speakers to small in the AVR menu.

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post #10 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeallofu View Post
The LFE setting is on the Subs, not the AVR... Since there's no knobs on the subs, it's controlled through an app... please see a screenshot from the app of the SVS Subs... should I turn it ON?
I never set crossover or filters in the subs, they should get a full range signal,
Only speakers set to small need to have a crossover setting.

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post #11 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 09:01 AM
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Help! No real bass from PB-4000 with Yamaha RX-A3070

LFE to “ON”

I commented under your other post also...


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post #12 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a quick update: Talked to Ed from SVS... he suggested to test the subs directly from a smart phone and I can see it shaking the room... I can see the woofer about to come out of the subs . From what I read up on here, it seems like Yamaha has very "low output" or whatever it is to manage the subs, even though I understand that subs don't need much input. I don't understand how the same music connected from iPhone can get the subs to thump and Yamaha won't... I'm going to the dealer tomorrow and getting a Denon and return the Yamaha... I will report back here... thanks to all for your help... thank you!
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post #13 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeallofu View Post
Just a quick update: Talked to Ed from SVS... he suggested to test the subs directly from a smart phone and I can see it shaking the room... I can see the woofer about to come out of the subs . From what I read up on here, it seems like Yamaha has very "low output" or whatever it is to manage the subs, even though I understand that subs don't need much input. I don't understand how the same music connected from iPhone can get the subs to thump and Yamaha won't... I'm going to the dealer tomorrow and getting a Denon and return the Yamaha... I will report back here... thanks to all for your help... thank you!

That's outrageous to even suggest, there are millions of happy Yamaha owners that have working Subs.
You have a Flag Ship model that is very capable so either your unit is defective or there is user error to blame.
You seem to have some very unusual selections based on your screen shots, perhaps you should have asked in the 3070 thread?


I've never had issue with any Yamaha AVR's sub output, (I've had many Yamaha's over the past 30+ years)
Did you ever try another input, preferably a bluray movie with decent bass levels, or did you only try Airplay?

I currently have 4 subs, over 13K watts of power all running off my RX-A3050, no issues at all playing right down to 10Hz.

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post #14 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 01:55 PM
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Yea, I don’t think it’s the AVR! You need to double check yourself.


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post #15 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeallofu View Post
Just a quick update: Talked to Ed from SVS... he suggested to test the subs directly from a smart phone and I can see it shaking the room... I can see the woofer about to come out of the subs . From what I read up on here, it seems like Yamaha has very "low output" or whatever it is to manage the subs, even though I understand that subs don't need much input. I don't understand how the same music connected from iPhone can get the subs to thump and Yamaha won't... I'm going to the dealer tomorrow and getting a Denon and return the Yamaha... I will report back here... thanks to all for your help... thank you!
I read on the Yamaha thread that the higher end Yamaha's had the low voltage issue corrected (i dont know this as a fact mind you). You still have not confirmed or responded to Falconsfan's question if in fact you had the LFE, or (sub) in your avr turned to the (on) position?

Also if you have only tried music have you tried all channel stereo (if there is that feature) I still think you have missed a setting.

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post #16 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 02:08 PM
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My Yamaha RX-A3070 with my SVS PB13-Ultra/Polk Audio LSiM 5.1 setup rips my house apart....... I wish I could help with your issue.
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post #17 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 02:11 PM
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If you wanted the Yamaha AVR, you should do some more troubleshooting.

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post #18 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I tried with LFE = OFF and ON (both) and still having issue. I tried 4K UHD disc and there's a bit more thumping, but still nothing impressive. I also tried Musicast that's built in Yamaha to see if the content from Blu-ray player or Airplay or TV isn't being the issue. The music coming directly from Yamaha receiver's builtin Musicast still doesn't produce nice bass. It's almost like no matter what setting I change, the bass seems to come more or less from the Center and the Front speakers. It's such that I can shut the subs off (power off) and can't tell the difference in the same song/scene. I'm just learning things now and bought Yamaha cause of it's good review and with the hope that it'll be good enough out of the box.

I'm not sure what else can I try... I changed the cables, I changed the Level, Speaker Size, Trim and while there'll be slight differences, but nothing that I can feel. I saw how those woofer moves when I plugged in the cable from iPhone, it was like a thunder and had to pull the cable out quickly.
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post #19 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stove View Post
My Yamaha RX-A3070 with my SVS PB13-Ultra/Polk Audio LSiM 5.1 setup rips my house apart....... I wish I could help with your issue.
Can u send me ur actual setting on the A3070 and I'll copy that to see if it works on mine... like, when I go to YPAO Speaker --> Manual Setup, what should I keep the Level, Configuration etc etc... plus the Trim and Subwoofer in the Sound setting.

thanks
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post #20 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 03:09 PM
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is there an on / off selection for subs in avr menu?

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post #21 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeallofu View Post
Can u send me ur actual setting on the A3070 and I'll copy that to see if it works on mine... like, when I go to YPAO Speaker --> Manual Setup, what should I keep the Level, Configuration etc etc... plus the Trim and Subwoofer in the Sound setting.

thanks
Here is what I suggested in your other thread in regards to your level settings...

If the sub gain shows levels from -10db to +10db then +10 would be the max gain. At -3 you're not even half way. Think of those levels as a dial and set it at around 1 or 2 o'clock. So +1, +2?. Then rerun your calibration and see what that sets the trim at on the AVR. You want it to be somewhere around -6 to -8 ideally. Then you'll have room to raise or lower them a few db if neccessary.

Your main goal here is to keep your subs trim levels in the negative numbers on your AVR so that you aren't drawing unneccessary power away from the speakers.

Also, as others have already stated, your subs should be set to LFE (120Hz. Leave as-is), FL/C/FR and surrounds should be set to small at around 80Hz. You can always tweak that if you feel it neccessary. Just make sure you don't lower them from what the calibration sets them at. Always go up and never down is how I was instructed.

FYI...I was exactly where you are a little over six months ago whenever I started researching for my setup. AVS has provided me with a great crash course in understanding how this stuff works...and I still feel stupid sometimes. Lol

Hope this helps.

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post #22 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 03:10 PM
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Did you go into the Configuration menu and select the proper configuration that coincides with your setup? Did you check in the configuration menu that you have two subs?

I have a Yamaha 2070 and a single Rythmik F12 and that little girl can whoop some *ss, so as others have said: something is wrong in your setup and I would suggest you start with the Configuration menu before running YPAO
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post #23 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 03:12 PM
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Have you tried changing listening modes on the AVR between stereo, Dolby Digital, DTS, Pure Direct?

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post #24 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
is there an on / off selection for subs in avr menu?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
Here is what I suggested in your other thread in regards to your level settings...

If the sub gain shows levels from -10db to +10db then +10 would be the max gain. At -3 you're not even half way. Think of those levels as a dial and set it at around 1 or 2 o'clock. So +1, +2?. Then rerun your calibration and see what that sets the trim at on the AVR. You want it to be somewhere around -6 to -8 ideally. Then you'll have room to raise or lower them a few db if neccessary.

Your main goal here is to keep your subs trim levels in the negative numbers on your AVR so that you aren't drawing unneccessary power away from the speakers.

Also, as others have already stated, your subs should be set to LFE (120Hz. Leave as-is), FL/C/FR and surrounds should be set to small at around 80Hz. You can always tweak that if you feel it neccessary. Just make sure you don't lower them from what the calibration sets them at. Always go up and never down is how I was instructed.

FYI...I was exactly where you are a little over six months ago whenever I started researching for my setup. AVS has provided me with a great crash course in understanding how this stuff works...and I still feel stupid sometimes. Lol

Hope this helps.

Darrell
I changed it to all the way up to +3 on the AVR and it does improve the bass a little bit. Yes, the sub LFE is OFF and FCR is set to Small at 80Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
Did you go into the Configuration menu and select the proper configuration that coincides with your setup? Did you check in the configuration menu that you have two subs?

I have a Yamaha 2070 and a single Rythmik F12 and that little girl can whoop some *ss, so as others have said: something is wrong in your setup and I would suggest you start with the Configuration menu before running YPAO
Yes, the configuration menu shows 2 subs and I selected them as located in the Front Left and Right. You can see from the pictures that Yamaha knows where my Speakers are and what settings they're in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gob Bluth View Post
Have you tried changing listening modes on the AVR between stereo, Dolby Digital, DTS, Pure Direct?
Yes, I changed the "Program" which allows me to change settings, such as Movie: Sci-fi, Movie: Drama, Music: Concert Hall etc etc.

Please see the pics... the pictures were taken at a point in time and since then I've tried all different settings suggested, such as changing the Subs Level to +3 etc.
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post #25 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 04:08 PM
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What are the max/min AVR (sub trim) levels on your Yamaha? If the minimum is -10, turn up the gain on your subs, rerun YPAO so that you have a -9 AVR sub trim on both sub channels (aim for 1DB below the max negative trim available). Then go into your settings and add 6db's hot to each sub channel. This should solve your issue. If not try doing a factory reset and repeat.

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post #26 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
What are the max/min AVR (sub trim) levels on your Yamaha? If the minimum is -10, turn up the gain on your subs, rerun YPAO so that you have a -9 AVR sub trim on both sub channels (aim for 1DB below the max negative trim available). Then go into your settings and add 6db's hot to each sub channel. This should solve your issue. If not try doing a factory reset and repeat.
Subwoofer Trim is from -6db to 6db.
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post #27 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 04:25 PM
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If you go into Manual Setup, what are the settings for Subwoofer 1 and Subwoofer 2? Are they enabled?

Front L&R - Polk LSiM703
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post #28 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ilikeallofu View Post
Subwoofer Trim is from -6db to 6db.
Really thats it??? That doesnt leave much room to boost the trim and stay in the negative, my Integra goes from -15/+15 giving lots of play room. If thats the case aim for -5 or -5.5 then bump up to 0.

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post #29 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 04:36 PM
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Yamaha receivers have a seperate sub trim setting (+6to-6) independent from the sub level included with the speakers menu. I never had a Yamaha receiver that I really liked. The lower voltage sub jacks were always irritating to me.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2), THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2,V6, XB900n,700,XB32,XB31. Sennheiser HD58X,HD4.50,PC37X. HiFiMAN HE4XX. Philips SHP9500. SIVGA SV004. SA HDTwo. HyperX CloudPS4. TB Elite AtlasAero. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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post #30 of 74 Old 01-28-2018, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by B T C View Post
If you go into Manual Setup, what are the settings for Subwoofer 1 and Subwoofer 2? Are they enabled?
Yes
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