Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 1610 Old 09-03-2018, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are very welcome, Jack! And, thank you for sharing that with me! It makes me feel good to know that I have been able to add to your listening enjoyment. As far as I know, everyone who has tried cascading crossovers lately has found that they make a positive difference. I could wish that we had all discovered them sooner, but I'm really just glad that we discovered them at all. Glass half full!

Regards,
Mike

Let's fill the other half of the Glass

Without been use for the sound, without-it.
It make us, even more appreciated the difference, for the better


Ray
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post #632 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 05:51 AM
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Sub Woofer Connections

Am just not seeing it or is there NOT a section explaining the ways the sub(s) can be connected? Line in, lfe in, speaker in/out, etc? Or, is just obvious?

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post #633 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
Am just not seeing it or is there NOT a section explaining the ways the sub(s) can be connected? Line in, lfe in, speaker in/out, etc? Or, is just obvious?

It should be as simple, to have an RCA cable from your Sub Out from your AVR.
To the Line In of the sub.

Don't know if your AVR has two Sub Output, since I see, you have two Subs, some way to connect if is has only one output;
-one way is to get an RCA splitter from your Sub Out (single), into two, to split the signal for each Sub Line In.
https://www.amazon.com/Philmore-Shie...QN71J1WW5M2SG1
-another way, is Daisy Chain (refer to your Sub manual, if it as this ability to do so), AVR Sub out to Sub1 Line in, from Sub1 Line Out, to Sub2 Line In.


Ray

Edit, I see your AVR Denon X4400H 9.2, do have two Sub Ouputs, so this way;
One RCA cable from Sub1 on the AVR, to the Line In of Sub1, then another RCA cable from Sub2 Output on the AVR, to the Line In on Sub2.
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post #634 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 09:25 AM
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^^^^^^^^
Thanks Ray.

That was the what I normally do and understood.

Now, what's not explained?
Speaker IN/Out L&R?
Sub IN L&R? How can it be split? The sub signal has NO L&R?
Which method is best/needed?

Chuck

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post #635 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
Am just not seeing it or is there NOT a section explaining the ways the sub(s) can be connected? Line in, lfe in, speaker in/out, etc? Or, is just obvious?
Actually, I think this may be more interesting than noted. I found the output from AVR to be rather obvious as stated. As indicated above, the top Yamaha AVRs have two sub outputs which I think are basically an internal Y. But the AVR sub setup configuration menus offer Layout options for Subwoofer that include Left+Right, Front+Rear, and Monoaural x2. While the manual does not discuss these options, it seems apparent that the options are for left side bass sent to one and right side to the other sub output. Same for front and rear. However, the general advice in the Yamaha forums is to select Mono x2 to send all the bass and LFE to both outputs for fullest output since low bass is non-directional.

In addition to this, some subs have multiple RCA inputs. The powered subs in my Front speakers have only one LFE RCA input. But the separate Titans have three RCA inputs with no explanation in the manual. Those inputs are Left/Subs, Center, and Right. So which to use? I connect one AVR sub output to the input labelled Right on both subwoofers. Perhaps I should use Left/Subs? I can only try to experiment. I interpret the three inputs to be from Left/Center/Right output from those channels, so with an AVR sub output as source, the choice of what input probably doesn't matter.

Since Chuck has a different AVR and different subs, I don't know which if any of the these configuration options he may have presented to him, but it's at least possible that this is the source of his question. Options probably vary by AVR brand and sub manufacturer.
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post #636 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 11:11 AM
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^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks Rich for more choices/decisions. FYI all 3 9.2 AVRs I have tried, all had SW1&SW2 PORTS. All 3 subs had the basic config choices. NOT sub LCR.


Hey Mike, you busy...… LOL

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post #637 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
^^^^^^^^
Thanks Ray.

That was the what I normally do and understood.

Now, what's not explained?
Speaker IN/Out L&R?
Sub IN L&R? How can it be split? The sub signal has NO L&R?
Which method is best/needed?

Chuck

Do not need to touch the Speakers In/Out, you do not need-it, done from your AVR Speakers Out for the speakers wire.
L or R on the Subs, does not matter, choose one, I usually use the Left One.


Ray
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post #638 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by richlife View Post
Actually, I think this may be more interesting than noted. I found the output from AVR to be rather obvious as stated. As indicated above, the top Yamaha AVRs have two sub outputs which I think are basically an internal Y. But the AVR sub setup configuration menus offer Layout options for Subwoofer that include Left+Right, Front+Rear, and Monoaural x2. While the manual does not discuss these options, it seems apparent that the options are for left side bass sent to one and right side to the other sub output. Same for front and rear. However, the general advice in the Yamaha forums is to select Mono x2 to send all the bass and LFE to both outputs for fullest output since low bass is non-directional.

In addition to this, some subs have multiple RCA inputs. The powered subs in my Front speakers have only one LFE RCA input. But the separate Titans have three RCA inputs with no explanation in the manual. Those inputs are Left/Subs, Center, and Right. So which to use? I connect one AVR sub output to the input labelled Right on both subwoofers. Perhaps I should use Left/Subs? I can only try to experiment. I interpret the three inputs to be from Left/Center/Right output from those channels, so with an AVR sub output as source, the choice of what input probably doesn't matter.

Since Chuck has a different AVR and different subs, I don't know which if any of the these configuration options he may have presented to him, but it's at least possible that this is the source of his question. Options probably vary by AVR brand and sub manufacturer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks Rich for more choices/decisions. FYI all 3 9.2 AVRs I have tried, all had SW1&SW2 PORTS. All 3 subs had the basic config choices. NOT sub LCR.

Hey Mike, you busy...… LOL

Hi Guys,

Ray's advice is the same advice I would give you. Which subwoofer input or output you plug your RCA cable into shouldn't matter. The issue of stereo bass has been debated without a satisfactory resolution for decades, at least where the use of subwoofers is concerned. But, Rich is correct. It wouldn't matter which subwoofer input he uses on his Titan subs either, because his Yamaha AVR is not going to separate the bass into different left/right channels, anyway.

This concept is an important one to understand about modern AVR's and subwoofers. Bass sounds, above a crossover, are split into left/center/right speakers, etc. But, bass sounds below a crossover, and bass sounds in the .1 LFE channel, come equally from all of the subwoofers at once. Those bass sounds are not split left/right, or in any other way. The theory is that bass below a certain frequency (nominally 80Hz) can't be localized anyway, so there is no reason to split bass content below that frequency (or even a little higher) into separate subwoofer channels.

The whole issue is a little more complicated than this quick summary can convey. But, the important point is that subwoofers are treated as a single bass source (regardless of how many of them we have in an HT system) and they are all EQed together by our automated room correction. There can be other reasons for having, and using, dual subwoofer inputs, which are covered in the multi-sub discussion (Section IV-A) in the Guide--to get subwoofers connected to Yamaha AVR's to turn-on more easily from Auto mode, for instance. But, for the great majority of cases, including with Chuck's Denon, which subwoofer input or output we use is irrelevant.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 09-04-2018 at 12:29 PM.
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post #639 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Guys,

Ray's advice is the same advice I would give you. Which subwoofer input or output you plug your RCA cable into shouldn't matter. The issue of stereo bass has been debated without a satisfactory resolution for decades, at least where the use of subwoofers is concerned. But, Rich is correct. It wouldn't matter which subwoofer input he uses on his Titan subs either, because his Yamaha AVR is not going to separate the bass into different left/right channels, anyway.

This concept is an important one to understand about modern AVR's and subwoofers. Bass sounds, above a crossover, are split into left/center/right speakers, etc. But, bass sounds below a crossover, and bass sounds in the .1 LFE channel, come equally from all of the subwoofers at once. Those bass sounds are not split left/right, or in any other way. The theory is that bass below a certain frequency (nominally 80Hz) can't be localized anyway, so there is no reason to split bass content below that frequency (or even a little higher) into separate subwoofer channels.

The whole issue is a little more complicated than this quick summary can convey. But, the important point is that subwoofers are treated as a single bass source (regardless of how many of them we have in an HT system) and they are all EQed together by our automated room correction. There can be other reasons for having, and using, dual subwoofer inputs, which are covered in the multi-sub discussion (Section IV-A) in the Guide--to get subwoofers connected to Yamaha AVR's to turn-on more easily from Auto mode, for instance. But, for the great majority of cases, including with Chuck's Denon, which subwoofer input or output we use is irrelevant.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks, Mike.

I think you just wrote most of your next update...

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post #640 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 05:04 PM
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Cascading xovers

As mentioned in the guide,section III-c I am very interested in trying this.As mthomas47 mentions in the guide and had great success, the only question I have is was the Gain on the sub a factor or manipulated during this process or is it just trial and error?

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As mentioned in the guide,section III-c I am very interested in trying this.As mthomas47 mentions in the guide and had great success, the only question I have is was the Gain on the sub a factor or manipulated during this process or is it just trial and error?

You do your calibration first, once every thing is set properly, (this is where the gain on the Sub is done).
Then you play with the Cascading frequencies, on the AVR and Sub.

Ray
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post #642 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kevin Schwandt View Post
As mentioned in the guide,section III-c I am very interested in trying this.As mthomas47 mentions in the guide and had great success, the only question I have is was the Gain on the sub a factor or manipulated during this process or is it just trial and error?

Hi Kevin,

The amount of subwoofer boost that someone wants to use is always trial-and-error, in my opinion. And, that will be true with cascading crossovers, too. I have found that I probably have a little more bass SPL now, at the same gain/trim levels than I had before, because the SPL is concentrated into a little smaller frequency band. But, I sometimes find myself adding or subtracting a couple of decibels of subwoofer boost, anyway, depending on the particular movie. For me, at least, it's the same thing with the master volume. Some movies just seem louder or softer than others.

One of the advantages of keeping my AVR subwoofer trims at about -6, for my loudest bass setting, is that I always have room to go down in bass with the AVR remote, without leaving my chair. And, on very rare occasions, I might go up another decibel to -5. But normally, I already know that somewhere around -5 or -6 will be my absolute max subwoofer trim levels, and my gain levels on my subs are set accordingly. That way, I can still use my AVR remote to make subwoofer adjustments, and I can still stay at trim levels of about -5 or below.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: Just in case any of this is confusing, remember that your AVR will always calibrate your subwoofers to play approximately 75db, in order to match the other speakers in your HT system. High gain settings will equal low trim settings. Low gain = high trim. After calibration, you can add subwoofer boost by using either your subwoofer gain or your AVR trim. But, in the process, you still want to keep your AVR sub trim in the minus range--preferably about -5 or lower. None of that changes with cascading crossovers.
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 09-04-2018 at 05:30 PM.
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post #643 of 1610 Old 09-04-2018, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Kevin,

The amount of subwoofer boost that someone wants to use is always trial-and-error, in my opinion. And, that will be true with cascading crossovers, too. I have found that I probably have a little more bass SPL now, at the same gain/trim levels than I had before, because the SPL is concentrated into a little smaller frequency band. But, I sometimes find myself adding or subtracting a couple of decibels of subwoofer boost, anyway, depending on the particular movie. For me, at least, it's the same thing with the master volume. Some movies just seem louder or softer than others.

One of the advantages of keeping my AVR subwoofer trims at about -6, for my loudest bass setting, is that I always have room to go down in bass with the AVR remote, without leaving my chair. And, on very rare occasions, I might go up another decibel to -5. But normally, I already know that somewhere around -5 or -6 will be my absolute max subwoofer trim levels, and my gain levels on my subs are set accordingly. That way, I can still use my AVR remote to make subwoofer adjustments, and I can still stay at trim levels of about -5 or below.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: Just in case any of this is confusing, remember that your AVR will always calibrate your subwoofers to play approximately 75db, in order to match the other speakers in your HT system. High gain settings will equal low trim settings. Low gain = high trim. After calibration, you can add subwoofer boost by using either your subwoofer gain or your AVR trim. But, in the process, you still want to keep your AVR sub trim in the minus range--preferably about -5 or lower. None of that changes with cascading crossovers.
Your the man,I just recently re did Audyssey and my Denon wanted to set my sub at 75db and roughly set it to 77db giving me a trim of -9,which I think is ok,gives me some head room.As you mentioned in your guide a little in the red,78-80db is ok and will yield a lower trim level.I'll follow your suggested method and go little at a time,I can always go back if I don't like what I hear.I'll post back when I get a chance to do it.
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Hey all.

I got my first ever "Real" subwoofer, a PB-2000, coming in a few days. (The wait is killing me.) In the meantime I have been doing a lot of reading and research so I am prepared as I can be to set it up and get the best out of it.

One of the things I have been doing is watching the YouTube Channel Subwoofer 101. In setup videos, he talks about setting the subwoofer trim in your AVR really low, like -10db. Now perhaps I just don't understand what this is doing, but what I don't understand is instead of doing that, why not just turn the volume knob on the sub itself down? Would that not give the same results? Wont I want my sub's amp to do most of the work it can with little to no "assistance" from my AVR? (Which is a Denon X4400H if that matters.)


Thanks!
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Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
Hey all.



I got my first ever "Real" subwoofer, a PB-2000, coming in a few days. (The wait is killing me.) In the meantime I have been doing a lot of reading and research so I am prepared as I can be to set it up and get the best out of it.



One of the things I have been doing is watching the YouTube Channel Subwoofer 101. In setup videos, he talks about setting the subwoofer trim in your AVR really low, like -10db. Now perhaps I just don't understand what this is doing, but what I don't understand is instead of doing that, why not just turn the volume knob on the sub itself down? Would that not give the same results? Wont I want my sub's amp to do most of the work it can with little to no "assistance" from my AVR? (Which is a Denon X4400H if that matters.)





Thanks!


Gratz on a nice sub
By setting the trim in the avr low you have to increase the volume on the sub to compensate and make the sub do most of the work, which is what you want.


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post #646 of 1610 Old 09-05-2018, 10:42 AM
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Thanks, Mike.

I think you just wrote most of your next update...
I've noticed that many of Mike's responses here fit right in with his document. Taking time to fully respond to us better helps with his bigger goal. Wise man!
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Gratz on a nice sub
By setting the trim in the avr low you have to increase the volume on the sub to compensate and make the sub do most of the work, which is what you want.


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Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. I didn't expect the answer to be so simple.

One follow up. How does the sub trim settings related to the Audyssey levels set during calibration? It set my sub (My current, cheap-o one) to like -7 after calibration and currently I don't even have my subwoofer trim settings turned on at all in my Denon. Do they cancel each out? Does one know the existence of the other? The subwoofer trim is just a denon setting, it's not part of the Audyssey menu.


Thanks!
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. I didn't expect the answer to be so simple.



One follow up. How does the sub trim settings related to the Audyssey levels set during calibration? It set my sub (My current, cheap-o one) to like -7 after calibration and currently I don't even have my subwoofer trim settings turned on at all in my Denon. Do they cancel each out? Does one know the existence of the other? The subwoofer trim is just a denon setting, it's not part of the Audyssey menu.





Thanks!


Both are often called trim which can be confusing, the trim you mention now is just for temporary/possibly per input ‘tweaking’ and its 0 is what the setup volumes are set at so its easy to see if you have ‘tweaked’ it a bit for a movie/program etc without messing with the setup values themselves. What i called trim in my previous post is the setup channel volumes settings.


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Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Both are often called trim which can be confusing, the trim you mention now is just for temporary/possibly per input ‘tweaking’ and its 0 is what the setup volumes are set at so its easy to see if you have ‘tweaked’ it a bit for a movie/program etc without messing with the setup values themselves. What i called trim in my previous post is the setup channel volumes settings.


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Thanks

So if I understand right, would I leave the Audyssey-set level calibration at whatever it sets it at, and instead begin to use my "Subwoofer Level Adjust." (I just looked up it's exact name in my manual) on my Denon to tweak things as needed?

Which of these 2, Audyssey level adjustments or Subwoofer Level adjustment were you saying are per-input based? I'm sorry I wasn't quite clear on what you were saying.
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post #650 of 1610 Old 09-05-2018, 11:51 AM
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Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
Thanks



So if I understand right, would I leave the Audyssey-set level calibration at whatever it sets it at, and instead begin to use my "Subwoofer Level Adjust." (I just looked up it's exact name in my manual) on my Denon to tweak things as needed?



Which of these 2, Audyssey level adjustments or Subwoofer Level adjustment were you saying are per-input based? I'm sorry I wasn't quite clear on what you were saying.

Its the audyssey set level you want a low setting by audyssey, possibly up it a few dB(usually 3-6dB) if you want more base. Some also increase the center volume a db or 1.5db to hear dialogue easier.

The one under the options menu might be per input but im not sure, its for temporary and/or per input tweaks. Your manual should state clearly how it treats it, some makes/models are per input, some are temporary until reciever turned off.


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post #651 of 1610 Old 09-05-2018, 06:42 PM
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Okay,now I have discovered cascading,it really is an improvement.I first tried 100hz at all three crossover points(LCR,LPF/LFE low pass at sub) very slight,then went straight to 80hz and that is where it really shines.Mids are sharper and have more weight,but not chesty if that makes sense.Low freq's are more punchy and detailed.Really like it so far.Gain at 11 o'clock and sub trim at -6.Once again you guys here on AVS have so much amazing info,thanks mthomas47 and others for sharing your experience for all to relish in this great hobby.The quest continues......
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post #652 of 1610 Old 09-05-2018, 09:05 PM
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So I gotta ask what is Cascading Crossovers?
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post #653 of 1610 Old 09-05-2018, 09:34 PM
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Check the beginning of the thread, everything is explained!
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Spoiler!
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post #654 of 1610 Old 09-06-2018, 05:46 AM
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Cascading Crossovers

I posted this on the SVS Support thread, but realized it should probably have been listed here where this adjustment is being tested more actively.

I have a 7.2 home theater in a room that is 17' wide, 38' long and 8' high. We sit 17' from the projector screen. The room is rectangular, but open behind the rear back speakers. I have an Anthem AVM60. The speakers are all Aerial Acoustics with 2 SVS SB-16 Ultras. I purchased the subwoofers 2.5 months ago to replace 2 Aerial Acoustic SW12's because one driver broke. I have struggled to get the maximum from the subs, using many of the tricks I read about on the forums. Finally, 2 days ago, I read about cascading crossovers and the reduced LFE setting. Without telling my wife what to expect, I asked her what she noticed. The first thing she mentioned was the clearer dialogue. In addition, the bass sounds so much richer and impressive. Interestingly, I was able to increase the setting in the subs from +4 after ARC, to +8.
Just wanted to post my experience because I find it fascinating that most of the results of a google search of cascading crossovers warn against it. I played 70, 80, 90 and 100 hz test tones without hearing any cancellations at my 80 hz crossover.

Before running my ARC calibration, I level matched the two subwoofers and then adjusted the gain.

In my rather large room, I couldn't believe that the two subs weren't enough. In addition, the REW room optimizer showed that two additional subs would theoretically reduce the bass. After the cascading crossover adjustment, they are more than enough. There is plenty of headroom.

Also want to thank Mike for this suggestion, clear discussion of his process, and simple instructions.
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post #655 of 1610 Old 09-06-2018, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD1225 View Post
Check the beginning of the thread, everything is explained!

+1
You are correct, in one of the sub section, with a direct link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
So I gotta ask what is Cascading Crossovers?

Here's a direct link for you, as mention by RickD1225, in the quote above yours;
III-C: Cascading Crossovers:
Best tweak, I ever did, make the bass so much more exciting


Ray
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Last edited by darthray; 09-06-2018 at 06:15 AM.
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post #656 of 1610 Old 09-06-2018, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLC View Post
I posted this on the SVS Support thread, but realized it should probably have been listed here where this adjustment is being tested more actively.

I have a 7.2 home theater in a room that is 17' wide, 38' long and 8' high. We sit 17' from the projector screen. The room is rectangular, but open behind the rear back speakers. I have an Anthem AVM60. The speakers are all Aerial Acoustics with 2 SVS SB-16 Ultras. I purchased the subwoofers 2.5 months ago to replace 2 Aerial Acoustic SW12's because one driver broke. I have struggled to get the maximum from the subs, using many of the tricks I read about on the forums. Finally, 2 days ago, I read about cascading crossovers and the reduced LFE setting. Without telling my wife what to expect, I asked her what she noticed. The first thing she mentioned was the clearer dialogue. In addition, the bass sounds so much richer and impressive. Interestingly, I was able to increase the setting in the subs from +4 after ARC, to +8.
Just wanted to post my experience because I find it fascinating that most of the results of a google search of cascading crossovers warn against it. I played 70, 80, 90 and 100 hz test tones without hearing any cancellations at my 80 hz crossover.

Before running my ARC calibration, I level matched the two subwoofers and then adjusted the gain.

In my rather large room, I couldn't believe that the two subs weren't enough. In addition, the REW room optimizer showed that two additional subs would theoretically reduce the bass. After the cascading crossover adjustment, they are more than enough. There is plenty of headroom.

Also want to thank Mike for this suggestion, clear discussion of his process, and simple instructions.

Glad you took the time, to try-it, and also enjoy the results


Ray
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post #657 of 1610 Old 09-06-2018, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
Thanks, Mike.

I think you just wrote most of your next update...
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Originally Posted by richlife View Post
I've noticed that many of Mike's responses here fit right in with his document. Taking time to fully respond to us better helps with his bigger goal. Wise man!
Quote:
Originally Posted by WLC View Post

In my rather large room, I couldn't believe that the two subs weren't enough. In addition, the REW room optimizer showed that two additional subs would theoretically reduce the bass. After the cascading crossover adjustment, they are more than enough. There is plenty of headroom.

Also want to thank Mike for this suggestion, clear discussion of his process, and simple instructions.

First, all of you are very welcome for any help I have provided! And, I want to thank all of you for the nice comments. I really do enjoy sharing information and insights, and it is gratifying to me when others benefit from that. That sharing of knowledge, insight, equipment, and technique has always been the real value of AVS for me, and I suspect that it is for many other people as well.

There is a reason why most of my answers tend to be very detailed, and it's also why I don't always post a lot. For everyone who asks a specific question, there may be several dozen others reading along silently. And, over a long period of time, hundreds of others may also read that same post, and the responses to it, and wish they could have gotten more clarification, or been able to ask follow-up questions.

I look sometimes to see what the ratio of members to guests is on these forums, and it ranges from a low of about 3 guests for every member, to a high of about 8/1. And, only the members can post, even if they are actually disposed to do so. So, I am always conscious that I am writing for a larger audience than for just the person asking the specific question. And, I do sometimes gain additional insights myself, as Chuck observed, when I try to frame a careful answer to a particular question.

If you read the AVR threads, or the room correction threads, or the subwoofer threads, you see the same kinds of questions being asked again and again. At one time, I was one of those people asking some of those questions, and then I was one of the people answering some of those questions. But, I wanted to make some of the better answers accessible to a wider audience, so I started the Guide, first on the Audyssey thread in 2016, and I then moved it to its own thread in February of this year. And, as Ray observed the other day, the thread has really taken-off since then. But, the Guide itself has also grown exponentially in both format and content, since its early beginnings, as I have found more information and insight to share.

I consider giving advice in the Guide, and on this and other threads to be a privilege, a responsibility, and a burden, all at the same time. I don't want to sound too serious here, but if I am going to give advice, I want to try to make sure that I am only giving good advice. And, I always want to make sure that I am writing for the larger audience, who may read it without ever commenting on what they have read, and without ever having the opportunity to ask clarifying questions. That's a large part of the reason that most of my posts tend to be fairly detailed. I thought that some of my friends here might enjoy understanding my personal perspective on all of this.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 09-06-2018 at 09:10 AM.
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post #658 of 1610 Old 09-06-2018, 04:05 PM
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Mike, I have to give you a big thank you for this thread and the work you put into it. I have been messing with the cascading crossovers and it definitely improved the bass with my dual DYI 18” subs and integration with the rest of my system. Cleaner and more impactful all around.
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post #659 of 1610 Old 09-07-2018, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
First, all of you are very welcome for any help I have provided! And, I want to thank all of you for the nice comments. I really do enjoy sharing information and insights, and it is gratifying to me when others benefit from that. That sharing of knowledge, insight, equipment, and technique has always been the real value of AVS for me, and I suspect that it is for many other people as well.

There is a reason why most of my answers tend to be very detailed, and it's also why I don't always post a lot. For everyone who asks a specific question, there may be several dozen others reading along silently. And, over a long period of time, hundreds of others may also read that same post, and the responses to it, and wish they could have gotten more clarification, or been able to ask follow-up questions.

I look sometimes to see what the ratio of members to guests is on these forums, and it ranges from a low of about 3 guests for every member, to a high of about 8/1. And, only the members can post, even if they are actually disposed to do so. So, I am always conscious that I am writing for a larger audience than for just the person asking the specific question. And, I do sometimes gain additional insights myself, as Chuck observed, when I try to frame a careful answer to a particular question.

If you read the AVR threads, or the room correction threads, or the subwoofer threads, you see the same kinds of questions being asked again and again. At one time, I was one of those people asking some of those questions, and then I was one of the people answering some of those questions. But, I wanted to make some of the better answers accessible to a wider audience, so I started the Guide, first on the Audyssey thread in 2016, and I then moved it to its own thread in February of this year. And, as Ray observed the other day, the thread has really taken-off since then. But, the Guide itself has also grown exponentially in both format and content, since its early beginnings, as I have found more information and insight to share.

I consider giving advice in the Guide, and on this and other threads to be a privilege, a responsibility, and a burden, all at the same time. I don't want to sound too serious here, but if I am going to give advice, I want to try to make sure that I am only giving good advice. And, I always want to make sure that I am writing for the larger audience, who may read it without ever commenting on what they have read, and without ever having the opportunity to ask clarifying questions. That's a large part of the reason that most of my posts tend to be fairly detailed. I thought that some of my friends here might enjoy understanding my personal perspective on all of this.

Regards,
Mike

You did indeed, created a easier to follow and understanding Guide


I was also one that was asking, the same question, answer previously, on many subjects
That said, your Guide is an easy access, to find the proper information's, unlike the search engine on these forums.
A better search engine, would remedy lot's of those repeating question, on various thread.


Ray
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Last edited by darthray; 09-07-2018 at 06:26 AM.
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post #660 of 1610 Old 09-07-2018, 10:52 AM
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Ok, so thanks to fine members of AVS I can't stop thinking about more bass.

It's really quite silly because I totally love my set-up the way it is and it brings a smile to my face everytime I throw a movie on. But I still can't help thinking about more bass. After 2 months of learning and tweaking I think I have my pair of PB-1000's performing to the limit of their capabilities. For the first time Monday night I actually turned the trim down as it sounded like they might be pushing past their limit.

Ultimately a pair of PB-4000's would probably permanently cure my disease, but that isn't going to float past the WAF at this point. LOL!!

A pair of PB-2000's seems to be the upgrade path at this point, but I have a few questions.

First a reminder of my room. It's L-shaped.

The viewing area is 13.5' x 18'. The front of the room has a bay that is off centered. The one side of the bay goes directly to the outside wall and the other side has about 2.5' extra to the inside wall. At the back of this area it opens into an area that is 11' x 25'. Something that has really seemed to help the sound quality is the ceilings are only 7.5' and the entire area has some good quality acoustic ceiling tiles. The stereo can only be heard upstairs when the subs kick hard. the sound from the other speakers doesn't really make it upstairs. I think the quality of the ceiling tiles is also getting me better than expected performance from my set-up in this big of an area. The total space is about 3900 cubic feet. The subs are on the side walls. This is where SVS said to try them. They fit best there and sound good.

I talked to the Canadian SVS distributor. They honor the entire SVS bill of rights except the trade up policy. They said they have no way of selling used subs and shipping costs are too high in Canada. They did however offer me a special deal to buy a pair of PB-2000's. I don't think they want me repeating the offer on an open forum, but it's the kind of discount you wouldn't expect on SVS subs.

I can try to sell my PB-1000's locally, but I'm not sure there is a market for them here. I wouldn't sell 2 brand new subs unless I could get what I want for them.

So my first question is how would 2-PB-1000's work with 2-PB-2000's? Would the 1000's improve the set-up or would the pair of 2000's be better off on there own? The most likely set-up would be two subs on each side wall in the viewing area.

Next question. How does a PB-2000 compare to a PB12? There is a used PB12 for sale locally and the Canadian distributor still has new ones for cheap compared to what they used to be. However they are still about $350-$400 CDN more than a PB-2000. If I could get the used one cheap enough this route might make sense, but only if this sub is significantly better than the PB-2000.

If I grabbed this used PB12 would it mix well on it's own with the 2 PB-1000's or would I need a pair to make it work?

Sorry for rambling. Just thinking out loud.

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