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post #1441 of 1476 Old 08-08-2019, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
Do you have a good movie selections and scenes to test the cascading crossovers that hits all those frequencies regularly? I just messed around for an hour and tried different scenarios with John Wick (the club scene + the parking lot shootout). If there was any differences, it was too subtle for my untrained ears and they all sounded the same overall (very good).

I tried:
- Crossovers for LCR 80hz, LPF of LFE 80hz, sub dial crossover "on" at 90hz (highest it goes)
- Same as above but LR at 60hz but kept C at 80hz
- Crossovers for LCR 80hz, LPF of LFE 90hz, sub dial crossover "on" at 90hz (highest it goes)
- Crossovers for LCR 80hz, LPF of LFE 100hz, sub dial crossover "on" at 90hz (highest it goes)
- Crossovers for LCR 80hz, LPF of LFE 120hz, sub dial crossover "on" at 90hz (highest it goes)
- Crossovers for LCR 80hz, LPF of LFE 120hz, sub dial crossover "off" (defeated)

My default setting has been the 60hz for towers (-3dB at 32hz), 80hz for center (-3dB at 40hz), 90hz for surrounds, 100hz for ceiling Atmos x4, and LPF of LFE 120hz.

I'll just stick with the cascading for a while: 80hz crossover for LCR, 80hz LPF of LFE, and subwoofer set to "in" and 90hz (lowest it goes).

Hi,

I really don't have a go-to movie, or scene, for testing cascading crossovers. And, I think it can be very difficult to discern subtle differences anyway, in a marathon listening session like the one you described. I wrote about my own impressions of cascading crossovers in Section III-C of the Guide. But, I always change a setting and then just live with it for a while, letting impressions form naturally, and in their own time, as opposed to switching among multiple variations "trying" to hear subtle differences.

I put the word trying in quotation marks, because that technique doesn't work very well for me. Speaking personally, sound quality is more of an overall impression for me than it is the conclusion of an analytical exercise. Analysis helps me to understand what I am hearing, and why, but it doesn't help me to hear subtle distinctions, if that makes sense. I just have to let impressions form on their own. Sometimes, the impressions are overt and immediate--"I don't like that sound". Sometimes, they are subtle and gradual--"I like that sound a little better".

Where I first noticed a real difference in clarity was with respect to dialogue. Sometimes in action movies, what is happening in the other channels tends to drown-out the dialogue coming from the center channel. I also seem to be a little sensitive to the difference that having extra bass in male voices makes. Male voices can sound a little chesty to me, with too much added bass, and that thicker quality not only sounds a little unnatural to me, it makes some words harder for me to understand.

In early listening sessions, with cascading crossovers, I found that I was able to reduce the volume of my center channel and still hear dialogue more clearly. That was a noticeable difference to me. I wouldn't characterize the differences as night-and-day, but they were sufficiently significant that I won't ever go back to not using cascading crossovers again.

I honestly don't know whether everyone will hear enough difference to worry about using CC's or not. But, I would recommend that you just give them some time, with your normal viewing/listening material, and see if you form any gradual impressions of your own. At worst, I don't believe that using cascading crossovers will do any harm. At best, you may find that your overall clarity improves slightly. And, if you get a little more mid-bass impact in the process, that will just be an added bonus.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1442 of 1476 Old 08-08-2019, 06:41 AM
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Hi Darth,

Thanks for the compliment! I actually said it the way I intended, but perhaps what I was saying isn't very clear. I think that unless someone has speakers on his front soundstage which are capable of playing about 80Hz with some real power, and low distortion, then he probably isn't a good candidate for cascading crossovers.

The subwoofers are going to handle the frequencies under 80Hz just fine. If anything, they will handle the frequencies below 80Hz even better with cascading crossovers, because a little more headroom will be concentrated below 80Hz. But, if the speakers on the front soundstage can't handle the frequencies around 80Hz to 90Hz with some real authority, then we are better off setting a higher crossover than 80Hz, and we are better off not rolling-off the subs so fast above 80Hz. If our front speakers aren't powerful enough at 80Hz or so, then we may actually want some subwoofer bass to bleed into those frequencies.

I was just trying to make sure that someone with small bookshelf speakers, which may strain a little at a 12' distance, with an 80Hz crossover, isn't trying to use a technique which is really better suited to more powerful speakers. We never know who may be reading the Guide, and I don't want to mislead anyone about the value or effectiveness of something like cascading crossovers. I think it works best with more capable speakers for at least the front soundstage. I hope this explanation makes sense!

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I just added a short paragraph, to that section of the Guide, which better explains what I just said in my response to your post. So thanks!
Hi Mike

It does, but did created more work for you
At least you now know that some of us, do go check those changes


Darth

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post #1443 of 1476 Old 08-08-2019, 08:12 AM
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Hi,

I really don't have a go-to movie, or scene, for testing cascading crossovers. And, I think it can be very difficult to discern subtle differences anyway, in a marathon listening session like the one you described. I wrote about my own impressions of cascading crossovers in Section III-C of the Guide. But, I always change a setting and then just live with it for a while, letting impressions form naturally, and in their own time, as opposed to switching among multiple variations "trying" to hear subtle differences.

I put the word trying in quotation marks, because that technique doesn't work very well for me. Speaking personally, sound quality is more of an overall impression for me than it is the conclusion of an analytical exercise. Analysis helps me to understand what I am hearing, and why, but it doesn't help me to hear subtle distinctions, if that makes sense. I just have to let impressions form on their own. Sometimes, the impressions are overt and immediate--"I don't like that sound". Sometimes, they are subtle and gradual--"I like that sound a little better".

Where I first noticed a real difference in clarity was with respect to dialogue. Sometimes in action movies, what is happening in the other channels tends to drown-out the dialogue coming from the center channel. I also seem to be a little sensitive to the difference that having extra bass in male voices makes. Male voices can sound a little chesty to me, with too much added bass, and that thicker quality not only sounds a little unnatural to me, it makes some words harder for me to understand.

In early listening sessions, with cascading crossovers, I found that I was able to reduce the volume of my center channel and still hear dialogue more clearly. That was a noticeable difference to me. I wouldn't characterize the differences as night-and-day, but they were sufficiently significant that I won't ever go back to not using cascading crossovers again.

I honestly don't know whether everyone will hear enough difference to worry about using CC's or not. But, I would recommend that you just give them some time, with your normal viewing/listening material, and see if you form any gradual impressions of your own. At worst, I don't believe that using cascading crossovers will do any harm. At best, you may find that your overall clarity improves slightly. And, if you get a little more mid-bass impact in the process, that will just be an added bonus.

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike,

Enjoy reading your discussion with @darthray . Very instructive.

However, as I was reading your further refinement of what you mean about the Front Speakers ability to play with authority @ 80Hz, I began to ask "How does a person go about testing this ?" My thinking was that maybe adding a link to, or adding descriptions and/or procedures on how to test individual Speakers to determine their natural rolloff of lower HZ capability.

I venture a bet that many readers, go by what the Manufacturer States is the Low end capability of their Speakers. We know that this information can be considerably "Overstated" by the OEM's and it does not take into consideration the actual "Room Mode" reinforcement that may or may not be improving/impairing each specific Speaker. Cascading Crossovers do work, as I can attest.

But one needs to know the actual rolloff frequency of each individual speaker. For instance, I have two similar front speakers as my L&R. My AVR only allows me to set the Crossover for "Both" Front Speakers. There is no individual Speaker Crossover setting. Some may assume these Speakers will roll off at the same FR. This could be an incorrect assumption based on room reinforcement effects. Therefore I need to know exactly where each (FR&FL) speaker rolls off. Then I should take the Highest number of the two to use as my basis for setting the Front L&R crossover setting.

Do I have anything incorrect in the above? Always happy to be corrected if so.

Again, I wish to commend your work. You constantly strive and achieve a remarkably high level, of communicating the extremely technically complicated, in terms we "Knuckle Draggers" can clearly comprehend. Bravo Zulu Sir!

Here are a few links that may be useful and could be referenced to provide Users with additional info on how to test their speakers:

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Tut...sponseTesting/

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...asurements-101

https://bobpariseau.com/blog/2018/6/...ss-begins-here
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post #1444 of 1476 Old 08-08-2019, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Mike,

Enjoy reading your discussion with @darthray . Very instructive.

However, as I was reading your further refinement of what you mean about the Front Speakers ability to play with authority @ 80Hz, I began to ask "How does a person go about testing this ?" My thinking was that maybe adding a link to, or adding descriptions and/or procedures on how to test individual Speakers to determine their natural rolloff of lower HZ capability.

I venture a bet that many readers, go by what the Manufacturer States is the Low end capability of their Speakers. We know that this information can be considerably "Overstated" by the OEM's and it does not take into consideration the actual "Room Mode" reinforcement that may or may not be improving/impairing each specific Speaker. Cascading Crossovers do work, as I can attest.

But one needs to know the actual rolloff frequency of each individual speaker. For instance, I have two similar front speakers as my L&R. My AVR only allows me to set the Crossover for "Both" Front Speakers. There is no individual Speaker Crossover setting. Some may assume these Speakers will roll off at the same FR. This could be an incorrect assumption based on room reinforcement effects. Therefore I need to know exactly where each (FR&FL) speaker rolls off. Then I should take the Highest number of the two to use as my basis for setting the Front L&R crossover setting.

Do I have anything incorrect in the above? Always happy to be corrected if so.

Again, I wish to commend your work. You constantly strive and achieve a remarkably high level, of communicating the extremely technically complicated, in terms we "Knuckle Draggers" can clearly comprehend. Bravo Zulu Sir!

Here are a few links that may be useful and could be referenced to provide Users with additional info on how to test their speakers:

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Tut...sponseTesting/

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...asurements-101

https://bobpariseau.com/blog/2018/6/...ss-begins-here


Hi Adam,

It's nice to hear from you, and those links should be helpful to people. Speaking as a fellow knuckle-dragger, I appreciate the compliment!

I agree with your post, but I also think it is important to distinguish between setting crossovers in general, and using cascading crossovers. Nothing about rolling-off bass frequencies faster above a crossover should jeopardize the speakers. So, the real question is how should we set crossovers to begin with? Ideally readers of the Guide will read the subsections of Section III consecutively, starting with Section III-A: Crossovers From Speakers to Subwoofers.

In that first subsection, I recommend a somewhat conservative approach to setting crossovers. Most (nearly all) modern AVR's are going to measure the frequency response of the speakers in an HT system, and set crossovers accordingly, even if they don't necessarily have advanced programs for automated room EQ. Where the auto-calibration programs are measuring a speaker or speaker pair, they are doing so based on the specific speaker location in relation to the MLP. (And, they always round crossovers up, based on the capability of the weaker speaker in a pair.)

My typical advice, for crossovers set below 80Hz, is to raise the crossovers to at least about 80Hz. (Section III-A goes into some detail on this.) Ideally, I would like to have about an extra half-octave above whatever frequency my AVR set my crossover at. But, FWIW, I think that extra half-octave of headroom becomes a little less important above about 80Hz. So, if a speaker is right at 80Hz, post-calibration, I might or might not increase the crossover post-calibration.

A lot would probably depend on my listening levels. If I rarely listened above about -15 MV, I might leave the crossover set at 80Hz, where the calibration process put it. If I listened louder than that, I would probably raise the crossover to 90 or 100Hz in order to let the subwoofer(s) carry more of the load. So, I see some degree of judgment involved in this question.

Should the average listener measure his speakers separately if he doesn't have an auto calibration program, or should he do it in addition to relying on the auto calibration process? The second part of that question is tougher than the first part. I agree that we can't just rely on manufacture's specs for a couple of reasons, including speaker placement in a room and spec reliability. But, we usually can rely on auto-calibration routines, if we are also exercising some individual judgment as noted in the last couple of paragraphs.

If someone needs to measure his speakers independently, or just wants to do it for his own information, there are some different ways to do it. He can start with some test tones and a Radio Shack SPL meter, and he can continue with REW tests for frequency response, distortion, and compression, at various volume levels.

I think that for most people reading this thread, a combination of auto-calibration and some common sense will probably be sufficient. Most of us will hear our speakers start to strain a little if we push them with too much volume. And if we do hear that, setting a higher crossover may help, since it will increase the speaker's overall headroom. (Reducing the volume will help, too.)

That straining sound, which characterizes distortion, would be the opposite of the clarity that cascading crossovers are designed to provide. But, nothing about cascading the crossovers to increase the subwoofer roll-off, above the selected crossover, should have any negative impact on the speakers. They are still playing exactly the same frequencies, at exactly the same volumes, that they would be even if the subs weren't rolling-off faster.

It's an interesting discussion, and I hope that my answer helps for others who may be reading along. (I will go back and see if I need to beef-up anything in Section III-A.)

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 08-08-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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^^^^^All excellent points and gap fillers for my head.^^^^^

I apologize as I did not intend to cause you more work! Honestly I have read your Guide at least 10 times now. Whilst it is unquestionably one of, if not the Best, “Sub Calibration Guides” ever put to paper! I keep getting “Insufficient Memory to perform this function” errors from my Brain Housing Unit!

So I will let the BHU chew on this before asking any more questions, and thereupon exposing my lack of mental acuity and retention!
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post #1446 of 1476 Old 08-08-2019, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^^All excellent points and gap fillers for my head.^^^^^

I apologize as I did not intend to cause you more work! Honestly I have read your Guide at least 10 times now. Whilst it is unquestionably one of, if not the Best, “Sub Calibration Guides” ever put to paper! I keep getting “Insufficient Memory to perform this function” errors from my Brain Housing Unit!

So I will let the BHU chew on this before asking any more questions, and thereupon exposing my lack of mental acuity and retention!


Damn, I thought I was the only one who got those error messages! I especially enjoy walking in a room, while thinking about something else, and then forgetting why I came in there. Fortunately, my brain seems to reboot after a few seconds, and I go "Duh, that's what I came in here to do!"
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1447 of 1476 Old 08-08-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
^^^^^All excellent points and gap fillers for my head.^^^^^

I apologize as I did not intend to cause you more work! Honestly I have read your Guide at least 10 times now. Whilst it is unquestionably one of, if not the Best, “Sub Calibration Guides” ever put to paper! I keep getting “Insufficient Memory to perform this function” errors from my Brain Housing Unit!

So I will let the BHU chew on this before asking any more questions, and thereupon exposing my lack of mental acuity and retention! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]


Damn, I thought I was the only one who got those error messages! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG] I especially enjoy walking in a room, while thinking about something else, and then forgetting why I came in there. Fortunately, my brain seems to reboot after a few seconds, and I go "Duh, that's what I came in here to do!" [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Wait 'til ya hit the literal data in/data out syndrome. I have to dump data to retain new data. Bad part is, I don't get to choose what dumps, lol.
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post #1448 of 1476 Old 08-08-2019, 05:34 PM
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Wait 'til ya hit the literal data in/data out syndrome. I have to dump data to retain new data. Bad part is, I don't get to choose what dumps, lol.
So true

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Damn, I thought I was the only one who got those error messages! I especially enjoy walking in a room, while thinking about something else, and then forgetting why I came in there. Fortunately, my brain seems to reboot after a few seconds, and I go "Duh, that's what I came in here to do!"
LOL

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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
^^^^^All excellent points and gap fillers for my head.^^^^^

I apologize as I did not intend to cause you more work! Honestly I have read your Guide at least 10 times now. Whilst it is unquestionably one of, if not the Best, “Sub Calibration Guides” ever put to paper! I keep getting “Insufficient Memory to perform this function” errors from my Brain Housing Unit!

So I will let the BHU chew on this before asking any more questions, and thereupon exposing my lack of mental acuity and retention!
You guys can add me to the list


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OK, you are officially on the LIST...

ahhhh, wait a second, what list were we talking about.....

HDTV: Panasonic P55VT50 Plasma
AVR: Denon X3500H
SPEAKERS: Ohm (mains), Chane 2.4 (center), Rythmik F12G (sub), DefTech ProMonitor 80 (sats)
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I apologize as I did not intend to cause you more work! Honestly I have read your Guide at least 10 times now. Whilst it is unquestionably one of, if not the Best, “Sub Calibration Guides” ever put to paper! I keep getting “Insufficient Memory to perform this function” errors from my Brain Housing Unit!

So I will let the BHU chew on this before asking any more questions, and thereupon exposing my lack of mental acuity and retention!
BHU is often coupled with another related syndrome; CRS (Can't Remember Sh$%)...

 
If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite...
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Hi Mike,

The percolation process, more like "reverse Osmosis" as I am going to go back over some of your points.

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Hi Adam,

In that first subsection, I recommend a somewhat conservative approach to setting crossovers. Most (nearly all) modern AVR's are going to measure the frequency response of the speakers in an HT system, and set crossovers accordingly, even if they don't necessarily have advanced programs for automated room EQ. Where the auto-calibration programs are measuring a speaker or speaker pair, they are doing so based on the specific speaker location in relation to the MLP. (And, they always round crossovers up, based on the capability of the weaker speaker in a pair.)

So do you think that Audyssey does a good/acceptable job in determining Speaker Crossovers? For instance, I have the ML ESL-X's (FR&FL) as you are aware. And the ML ESL-C (Center). My last Aud run set all 3 of these Speakers to Large Full Band! Subsequently I tested their F3 Point (individually), employing OmniMic. The f3 point testing indicated the ESL-X's at 60Hz and the Center @ 70Hz. So in my individual case I did not fully trust Audyssey's results for the Front 3. This was the case with the other Six sets out of Nine sets of my Surround Speakers. Audyssey only seemed able to set smaller Bookshelf size speakers crossover correctly. In every other case where I have full size towers, (L&R Wide, L&R Surround, L&R Rear Surrounds, Audyssey set Crossovers far below that Speakers actual capability. Have I done something incorrectly, screwed up the Audyssey run somehow? Absolutely, that is a possibility that continues to circle my wagons. I am not yet willing to admit that my AVR's CPU is smarter than my trusty and rusty BHU.... I do have a metric sh_t ton of full size towers in my system (8 total) and Six additional Satellite/bookshelf/mini-towers as Atmos/Height points. It does get complicated rapidly and doing a single Audyssey sweep pass takes like 20 mins. To do a full 8 pass calibration requires a pot of fresh coffee and a picnic basket.

My typical advice, for crossovers set below 80Hz, is to raise the crossovers to at least about 80Hz. (Section III-A goes into some detail on this.) Ideally, I would like to have about an extra half-octave above whatever frequency my AVR set my crossover at. But, FWIW, I think that extra half-octave of headroom becomes a little less important above about 80Hz. So, if a speaker is right at 80Hz, post-calibration, I might or might not increase the crossover post-calibration.

This is the advice I have followed in almost all cases. Set them all to a minimum of 80hz. Its a great baseline to use and tweak from there.

A lot would probably depend on my listening levels. If I rarely listened above about -15 MV, I might leave the crossover set at 80Hz, where the calibration process put it. If I listened louder than that, I would probably raise the crossover to 90 or 100Hz in order to let the subwoofer(s) carry more of the load. So, I see some degree of judgment involved in this question.

I never thought of how loud I listen should drive my Crossover decision. It sounds brilliant and makes a lot of sense. In my particular situation I have two seperate sets of Crossover settings. Depending if I am watching Movie/TV content, or Listening to Music. In the latter case my AVR has a separate Crossover setting for "Two" channel PLayback. In this mode I am still experimenting and have been for Months on what sounds best. I am hovering between 60Hz and 90Hz. It gets tricky with differing types of Music, and has become an OCD behavior.

Should the average listener measure his speakers separately if he doesn't have an auto calibration program, or should he do it in addition to relying on the auto calibration process? The second part of that question is tougher than the first part. I agree that we can't just rely on manufacture's specs for a couple of reasons, including speaker placement in a room and spec reliability. But, we usually can rely on auto-calibration routines, if we are also exercising some individual judgment as noted in the last couple of paragraphs.

As previously discussed, in my case Auto Calibration always seems to set Speaker Crossovers far too Low? Maybe it's me or my room? For basic setup this is sound advice, for a more "Tweaker" advanced setup, I still think a person needs to know the exact low FR capability of each individual Speaker in their room. Are we in agreement? Yes, I think we are!

If someone needs to measure his speakers independently, or just wants to do it for his own information, there are some different ways to do it. He can start with some test tones and a Radio Shack SPL meter, and he can continue with REW tests for frequency response, distortion, and compression, at various volume levels.

My point was we may be assuming the reader knows this. When in actuality, I suspect many do not know how to go about testing each speaker to find the f3 point. Why I suggested some links to help provide that basic information. Of course this is getting into the weeds, and digging down to the basic level and may not be a direction you wish to take your Guide.

I think that for most people reading this thread, a combination of auto-calibration and some common sense will probably be sufficient. Most of us will hear our speakers start to strain a little if we push them with too much volume. And if we do hear that, setting a higher crossover may help, since it will increase the speaker's overall headroom. (Reducing the volume will help, too.)

You have a more optimistic viewpoint than I here. I remember when I first started down this Subwoofer integration path I did not even know what a f3 point was let alone how to figure out what my Speakers f3 points were. Again I am probably going too deep into the weeds here.

That straining sound, which characterizes distortion, would be the opposite of the clarity that cascading crossovers are designed to provide. But, nothing about cascading the crossovers to increase the subwoofer roll-off, above the selected crossover, should have any negative impact on the speakers. They are still playing exactly the same frequencies, at exactly the same volumes, that they would be even if the subs weren't rolling-off faster.

Agreed!

It's an interesting discussion, and I hope that my answer helps for others who may be reading along. (I will go back and see if I need to beef-up anything in Section III-A.)

Your answers and thoughts always make me rethink my assumption set. In my previous field of occupation, assumptions were where the Devil lived and always came back to bite me in the you know what. Mike, thank you Sir for taking the time to provide all this further clarification of your thinking and knowledge about Bass Configuration. At first glance this subject looks simple and straightforward. When in reality it is precisely the opposite and riddled with Rocks and Shoals.

Regards,
Mike
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Hi Mike,

The percolation process, more like "reverse Osmosis" as I am going to go back over some of your points.

Thanks again, Adam! I think that part of the value of these discussions is to help us understand what parts of the Guide require additional elaboration. And, I typically take advantage of them that way. As previously discussed, I have gone back to Section III-A of the Guide to see if I could provide any clearer or more helpful information, and I have added some new material as a result.

Part of the ongoing confusion among HT owners, in general, concerns what our AVR's are doing when they set crossovers. The fairly universal perception that (with more capable speakers) crossovers are set too low, is part of the reason that I wrote Section III to start with. The AVR's are actually just measuring the frequency response of the speakers, as measured at the MLP. And, the AVR's are setting crossovers just above the measured F3 (3db roll-off ) points for those speakers.

But, that initial crossover setting is not a recommendation! It is simply a minimum setting, which provides the user with information about the F3 point for his speakers. The F3 point is always just a little lower than whatever crossover the AVR sets, as it measured the speakers during the calibration process. People don't always realize that the initial crossover setting is not a recommendation--it's just information.

Then, it is up to the user to exercise independent judgment as to whether to raise the crossover, or to leave it where it is. (That's why the simple advice is to raise crossovers to at least 80Hz.)

Section III-A was written to go beyond that simple advice. It was written to help us understand what the AVR is actually doing, and why, and to help us in the exercise of some independent judgment with respect to our crossovers. Hopefully, the additional material and explanation I just added will assist with that. But, people will still need to read Section III-A, because as you noted, this is not a simple subject.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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Hi @mthomas47 ,

Just reread the updated Section III-A. I like the revision. Your wording is always superior and phrasing is spot on. You managed to get into the weeds without getting grass on your shoes! IMHO, this section is more comprehensive for those who may need it, without becoming too wordy. A document trap I know you strive to minimize. Again BZ my friend. Thanks for the patience of hearing me out and baring with me as I struggled to find my thoughts and words.
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Does the LPF of LFE setting (from AVR menu) also affect the bass managed content from your speakers that combine with it? If yes, then does that defeat the purpose o setting the knob of subwoofer to on/in with a crossover?
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Does the LPF of LFE setting (from AVR menu) also affect the bass managed content from your speakers that combine with it? If yes, then does that defeat the purpose o setting the knob of subwoofer to on/in with a crossover?

If only someone would write a Guide about this stuff, there would probably be fewer questions.

Section III-B covers the operation of the LPF of LFE in detail. The short answer is that the LFE channel is a completely different channel, played only by the subwoofer(s) with 5.1 content. And, the LPF for that channel has no effect whatsoever on the content in the regular channels (which is played by the speakers).

So no, it doesn't defeat the purpose of setting a low-pass filter in the subwoofer itself. If you want to cascade (multiply) the crossovers to increase the roll-off of the subwoofer above a certain frequency, you probably want to do it for both the regular channels--controlled by the crossovers in the AVR, and for the LFE channel--controlled by the LPF of LFE in the AVR. Setting the "crossover" in the sub to the same ~80Hz frequencies cascades both of the bass channels in the AVR.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

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If only someone would write a Guide about this stuff, there would probably be fewer questions.

Section III-B covers the operation of the LPF of LFE in detail. The short answer is that the LFE channel is a completely different channel, played only by the subwoofer(s) with 5.1 content. And, the LPF for that channel has no effect whatsoever on the content in the regular channels (which is played by the speakers).

So no, it doesn't defeat the purpose of setting a low-pass filter in the subwoofer itself. If you want to cascade (multiply) the crossovers to increase the roll-off of the subwoofer above a certain frequency, you probably want to do it for both the regular channels--controlled by the crossovers in the AVR, and for the LFE channel--controlled by the LPF of LFE in the AVR. Setting the "crossover" in the sub to the same ~80Hz frequencies cascades both of the bass channels in the AVR.

Regards,
Mike
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Patience

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If only someone would write a Guide about this stuff, there would probably be fewer questions.

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^^^^Exactly my thinking here as well. Including myself in this, trying his patience!^^^^

A shining example for all of us to achieve. Unlikely in my case. But one must have goals.
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^^^^Exactly my thinking here as well. Including myself in this, trying his patience!^^^^

A shining example for all of us to achieve. Unlikely in my case. But one must have goals.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Come on bro, you're retired Navy, trying patience and having them tried is what we did, lol.
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Just Curious

So I Eq'd my sub trims at 3 db over calibration. I then adjusted sub distance. I am very happy with the result and have had no need to alter the sub level after many hours of listening.
However, being curious, I raised the sub trims by one additional db and then ran REW. My beautiful graph was no longer. As an example, this modest change resulted in a 5 db peak at 53hz.
So, here's my question. When you guys alter your sub calibration levels for different content, do you also alter these others settings? Or, does the difference in the REW graph not really matter?

Before genesis, I used to frequently change the sub calibration level for different content. As I said, no longer necessary.

Thanks, as I said, just curious about the answer.
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Originally Posted by WLC View Post
So I Eq'd my sub trims at 3 db over calibration. I then adjusted sub distance. I am very happy with the result and have had no need to alter the sub level after many hours of listening.
However, being curious, I raised the sub trims by one additional db and then ran REW. My beautiful graph was no longer. As an example, this modest change resulted in a 5 db peak at 53hz.
So, here's my question. When you guys alter your sub calibration levels for different content, do you also alter these others settings? Or, does the difference in the REW graph not really matter?

Before genesis, I used to frequently change the sub calibration level for different content. As I said, no longer necessary.

Thanks, as I said, just curious about the answer.
Hi WLC,

Good question. Worrying about the REW Plot after any adjustments is a good thing. Knowing what happens to the FR at different settings is more data points to consider. At one point, I became absorbed with the REW Plot and lost focus on the actual sound! I had to back away and pack up the Microphone. I set the baseline adjustments, and use them as my "Default Return Home" point. Once you get things dialed in, changing the Crossover from say 80 to 60 for some specific content is easy to restore. Once I get my plot as flat as I can, including the intentional boost in Low FR. I leave the Sub trim/gain/phase alone. The only exception to this is if I move the Subs or any Speakers or change the room in some way that I believe may impact the overall FR. For instance, moving a couch or installing a throw rug or moving a table. In this case I will rerun REW to confirm Subs are good and then rerun Audyssey.

The only adjustments I make are Crossover points and AVR Sub out Trims. I know where baseline is and it is easy to return them to the Default settings. Some Movies/TV shows may have too much bass and need the AVR Sub trims reduced. Some need Sub boost. What that may or may not do to the FR Plot I no longer care. If it sounds good that's all I need to know. I let my ears tell me from that point forward. So I make all my post calibration Changes via the AVR and never/rarely touch the Sub's adjustments again.

I am not saying that running REW post adjustment is not a bad idea. I just found it to be time consuming and ultimately, for me anyway, the process was sucking the fun out of my hobby. However, if you are a "Tweaker" and derive pleasure from this process, then by all means measure away. JMHO!

Hope I answered your inquiry? I don't think there is a right or wrong way to this inquiry. The more REW sweeps you do the more familiar you will become with how your Subs/Speakers interact with your room.

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post #1462 of 1476 Old 08-10-2019, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WLC View Post
So I Eq'd my sub trims at 3 db over calibration. I then adjusted sub distance. I am very happy with the result and have had no need to alter the sub level after many hours of listening.
However, being curious, I raised the sub trims by one additional db and then ran REW. My beautiful graph was no longer. As an example, this modest change resulted in a 5 db peak at 53hz.
So, here's my question. When you guys alter your sub calibration levels for different content, do you also alter these others settings? Or, does the difference in the REW graph not really matter?

Before genesis, I used to frequently change the sub calibration level for different content. As I said, no longer necessary.

Thanks, as I said, just curious about the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Hi WLC,

Good question. Worrying about the REW Plot after any adjustments is a good thing. Knowing what happens to the FR at different settings is more data points to consider. At one point, I became absorbed with the REW Plot and lost focus on the actual sound! I had to back away and pack up the Microphone. I set the baseline adjustments, and use them as my "Default Return Home" point. Once you get things dialed in, changing the Crossover from say 80 to 60 for some specific content is easy to restore. Once I get my plot as flat as I can, including the intentional boost in Low FR. I leave the Sub trim/gain/phase alone. The only exception to this is if I move the Subs or any Speakers or change the room in some way that I believe may impact the overall FR. For instance, moving a couch or installing a throw rug or moving a table. In this case I will rerun REW to confirm Subs are good and then rerun Audyssey.

The only adjustments I make are Crossover points and AVR Sub out Trims. I know where baseline is and it is easy to return them to the Default settings. Some Movies/TV shows may have too much bass and need the AVR Sub trims reduced. Some need Sub boost. What that may or may not do to the FR Plot I no longer care. If it sounds good that's all I need to know. I let my ears tell me from that point forward. So I make all my post calibration Changes via the AVR and never/rarely touch the Sub's adjustments again.

I am not saying that running REW post adjustment is not a bad idea. I just found it to be time consuming and ultimately, for me anyway, the process was sucking the fun out of my hobby. However, if you are a "Tweaker" and derive pleasure from this process, then by all means measure away. JMHO!

Hope I answered your inquiry? I don't think there is a right or wrong way to this inquiry. The more REW sweeps you do the more familiar you will become with how your Subs/Speakers interact with your room.


I like Adam's answer a lot! I have seen people obsess over their frequency response measurements to the point where it literally drained their ability to enjoy their systems. To me, the measurements are just one of several tools we can use to help us get to good sound quality. But, once we have a pretty good frequency response, now what? Are we allowed to change any of our settings, such as adding and subtracting bass, as long as the result sounds better to us?

Frankly, I am very surprised to hear that a 1db increase in subwoofer trim resulted in a 5db peak at a specific frequency. That doesn't really compute for me, and I can't recall seeing anything like that happen with Audyssey or Dirac. But, who knows? The important thing for me, though, would be whether the change improved or degraded the overall sound quality?

Like Adam, I find that different movies and TV programs can have very different amounts of bass. And, I will increase or decrease my subwoofer boosts by a few decibels, depending on the specific program, or upon my mood at that time. That second factor is an important one for me. Sometimes, I am in the mood for louder volumes and a lot of bass--other times, not so much. So, my subwoofer settings, and my listening volumes, aren't entirely program-dependent. I think that, for some of us at least, our own changeable perceptions and preferences are one of the least recognized variables in our audio systems.

I sometimes envy people who can set their volume levels and subwoofer boosts to a particular setting and never have to tweak them again. I can't really do that. Even with most of my music, where bass is not really a factor, I may adjust my volume within about a 3db window. With movies (and some music), the window can be even greater, as can my subwoofer variances, depending on how a movie is mixed and how I am reacting to it.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I like Adam's answer a lot! I have seen people obsess over their frequency response measurements to the point where it literally drained their ability to enjoy their systems. To me, the measurements are just one of several tools we can use to help us get to good sound quality. But, once we have a pretty good frequency response, now what? Are we allowed to change any of our settings, such as adding and subtracting bass, as long as the result sounds better to us?

Frankly, I am very surprised to hear that a 1db increase in subwoofer trim resulted in a 5db peak at a specific frequency. That doesn't really compute for me, and I can't recall seeing anything like that happen with Audyssey or Dirac. But, who knows? The important thing for me, though, would be whether the change improved or degraded the overall sound quality?

Like Adam, I find that different movies and TV programs can have very different amounts of bass. And, I will increase or decrease my subwoofer boosts by a few decibels, depending on the specific program, or upon my mood at that time. That second factor is an important one for me. Sometimes, I am in the mood for louder volumes and a lot of bass--other times, not so much. So, my subwoofer settings, and my listening volumes, aren't entirely program-dependent. I think that, for some of us at least, our own changeable perceptions and preferences are one of the least recognized variables in our audio systems.

I sometimes envy people who can set their volume levels and subwoofer boosts to a particular setting and never have to tweak them again. I can't really do that. Even with most of my music, where bass is not really a factor, I may adjust my volume within about a 3db window. With movies (and some music), the window can be even greater, as can my subwoofer variances, depending on how a movie is mixed and how I am reacting to it.

Regards,
Mike
Having different amount of bass is a fact, with many different media or recording.

As far as I concern, once you find the best place for location of the sub/s. Do your final calibration, Audyssey XT32 in my case.
Then just enjoy, other than raising my bass level a few dB if require or Cascading the Crossover. To see what sound best.
It come to point, it's time to enjoy about the small details. If it sound good, why fix something that is not broken


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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
...

I sometimes envy people who can set their volume levels and subwoofer boosts to a particular setting and never have to tweak them again. I can't really do that.
...

Regards,
Mike
That statement makes me feel better. I thought there must be something wrong with me tinkering with settings too often. Your well thought out, well written opinions carry a lot of weight in my opinion. So if you occasionally tinker with settings, maybe I'm not nuts after-all.

Jack
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That statement makes me feel better. I thought there must be something wrong with me tinkering with settings too often. Your well thought out, well written opinions carry a lot of weight in my opinion. So if you occasionally tinker with settings, maybe I'm not nuts after-all.

Jack


Thanks for the compliment, Jack! I don't know that my opinions would conclusively prove that you aren't nuts. But, FWIW, at least we would both be nuts.

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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
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Hello All,

I just wanted to post back on setting both subs to 80Hz to complete cascading crossovers. Over all the results were positive and immediate. My first impression all the speakers sounded tighter and blended better together with a noticeable increase in clarity and bass.

On another thread someone asked what others experienced when switching EQ from THX to Extended on a Monolith sub. Previous to implementing cascading crossovers I would have said not much difference.

Now after increasing the gain on the subs and deceasing AVR trim by 3db to -8 & -8.5 and EQ set to extended and switching the subs to THX I noticed a distinct decrease in extension/volume and an increase in clarity. Increasing the AVR trim 1db helped balance extension and overall SQ. To summarize, I found that implementing cascading crossovers to have positive effects in overall SQ and assists in the finer tuning (by ear for me) all the speakers in the setup to blend together better.

Mike, the areas in the guide you recently updated do help bring clarity to topics I question, especially for beginners like me.

Thanks,
Bert

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post #1467 of 1476 Old 08-11-2019, 05:18 AM
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Small Adjustments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Hi WLC,

Good question. Worrying about the REW Plot after any adjustments is a good thing. Knowing what happens to the FR at different settings is more data points to consider. At one point, I became absorbed with the REW Plot and lost focus on the actual sound! I had to back away and pack up the Microphone. I set the baseline adjustments, and use them as my "Default Return Home" point. Once you get things dialed in, changing the Crossover from say 80 to 60 for some specific content is easy to restore. Once I get my plot as flat as I can, including the intentional boost in Low FR. I leave the Sub trim/gain/phase alone. The only exception to this is if I move the Subs or any Speakers or change the room in some way that I believe may impact the overall FR. For instance, moving a couch or installing a throw rug or moving a table. In this case I will rerun REW to confirm Subs are good and then rerun Audyssey.

The only adjustments I make are Crossover points and AVR Sub out Trims. I know where baseline is and it is easy to return them to the Default settings. Some Movies/TV shows may have too much bass and need the AVR Sub trims reduced. Some need Sub boost. What that may or may not do to the FR Plot I no longer care. If it sounds good that's all I need to know. I let my ears tell me from that point forward. So I make all my post calibration Changes via the AVR and never/rarely touch the Sub's adjustments again.

I am not saying that running REW post adjustment is not a bad idea. I just found it to be time consuming and ultimately, for me anyway, the process was sucking the fun out of my hobby. However, if you are a "Tweaker" and derive pleasure from this process, then by all means measure away. JMHO!

Hope I answered your inquiry? I don't think there is a right or wrong way to this inquiry. The more REW sweeps you do the more familiar you will become with how your Subs/Speakers interact with your room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I like Adam's answer a lot! I have seen people obsess over their frequency response measurements to the point where it literally drained their ability to enjoy their systems. To me, the measurements are just one of several tools we can use to help us get to good sound quality. But, once we have a pretty good frequency response, now what? Are we allowed to change any of our settings, such as adding and subtracting bass, as long as the result sounds better to us?

Frankly, I am very surprised to hear that a 1db increase in subwoofer trim resulted in a 5db peak at a specific frequency. That doesn't really compute for me, and I can't recall seeing anything like that happen with Audyssey or Dirac. But, who knows? The important thing for me, though, would be whether the change improved or degraded the overall sound quality?

Like Adam, I find that different movies and TV programs can have very different amounts of bass. And, I will increase or decrease my subwoofer boosts by a few decibels, depending on the specific program, or upon my mood at that time. That second factor is an important one for me. Sometimes, I am in the mood for louder volumes and a lot of bass--other times, not so much. So, my subwoofer settings, and my listening volumes, aren't entirely program-dependent. I think that, for some of us at least, our own changeable perceptions and preferences are one of the least recognized variables in our audio systems.

I sometimes envy people who can set their volume levels and subwoofer boosts to a particular setting and never have to tweak them again. I can't really do that. Even with most of my music, where bass is not really a factor, I may adjust my volume within about a 3db window. With movies (and some music), the window can be even greater, as can my subwoofer variances, depending on how a movie is mixed and how I am reacting to it.

Regards,
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Having different amount of bass is a fact, with many different media or recording.

As far as I concern, once you find the best place for location of the sub/s. Do your final calibration, Audyssey XT32 in my case.
Then just enjoy, other than raising my bass level a few dB if require or Cascading the Crossover. To see what sound best.
It come to point, it's time to enjoy about the small details. If it sound good, why fix something that is not broken


Darth
Thank you all for your opinions. As I stated in my original post, I'm not really interested in changing my sub trim or AVM sub calibration. The only changes I have made since getting the bass, it is ridiculous to say perfect, but I'll say it anyway, is master volume and the center channel. The master volume is usually -15, but can vary between -18 and -8. The AVM allows me to alter the center channel without going into the calibration. The center channel is usually 0, but I may add as much as 4, i.e. British shows.
My beloved Lexicon MC12 included stereo sub outs which I employed with Aerial Acoustic ported subs. After adjusting by ear for many hours over a period of weeks, the settings were left alone for many years.
My stereo system with a minidsp with dirac only required several hours for fiddling with house curves before leaving it alone for over one year.
Confusingly, for me, ARC with 4 sealed subs had not allowed me to achieve that same level of contentedness. Now, ARC genesis has allowed me to settle on settings that, for me, do not require adjustments based on content. This is particularly notable in shows such as Elementary, which had previously required lowering the bass, or Stranger Things, which benefited from increasing the bass. I can't explain what has happened, but the bass, in all instances, seems perfect. In the meantime, I have developed a new way of entertaining myself. I believe that is why I ran REW after adding 1 db to the subs. I am, happily but reluctantly, realizing that there is no longer a benefit to tinkering with the bass. In fact, Anthem has a new beta of Genesis which I am not interested in trying because it requires running a new calibration. Although I have documented my settings, there is always the law of unintended consequences.
Although I am fairly picky in my enjoyments; food, sound, picture, etc., it appears I have been over-matched on these threads.
In case someone is tempted to think that I just stop listening to the quality, I just want to add that because we only turn on the home theater on the weekends, there has never been one time that I haven't felt ridiculously lucky as I have been re-acquainted with the picture and sound of our system.
So the reason I had asked the original question is because you guys are so knowledgeable and demanding concerning your systems that I was just interested in how you thought about the original question.
I have included the graph showing the effect of adding just 1 db to my subs for your entertainment.
Thanks again for your thoughtful responses.
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post #1468 of 1476 Old 08-11-2019, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Having different amount of bass is a fact, with many different media or recording.

As far as I concern, once you find the best place for location of the sub/s. Do your final calibration, Audyssey XT32 in my case.
Then just enjoy, other than raising my bass level a few dB if require or Cascading the Crossover. To see what sound best.
It come to point, it's time to enjoy about the small details. If it sound good, why fix something that is not broken

Darth
Consider yourself one of the Lucky Ones! I have to fight my inner Tweaking Demon. He is constantly trying to mess with my settings! I really don't know what is wrong with him. I have taken away his Measuring Microphone and Software. If you can sit back and just enjoy. I suggest you think about this No More!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack1949 View Post
That statement makes me feel better. I thought there must be something wrong with me tinkering with settings too often. Your well thought out, well written opinions carry a lot of weight in my opinion. So if you occasionally tinker with settings, maybe I'm not nuts after-all.

Jack
Nope, you fit right in with the Lunatics who frequent this thread. If Mike would just stop posting such informative Posts. Mike is the primary Troublemaker in here. Just when I think I'm all set....I come in here and read another revealing Post from Mike!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WLC View Post
Thank you all for your opinions. As I stated in my original post, I'm not really interested in changing my sub trim or AVM sub calibration. The only changes I have made since getting the bass, it is ridiculous to say perfect, but I'll say it anyway, is master volume and the center channel. The master volume is usually -15, but can vary between -18 and -8. The AVM allows me to alter the center channel without going into the calibration. The center channel is usually 0, but I may add as much as 4, i.e. British shows.
My beloved Lexicon MC12 included stereo sub outs which I employed with Aerial Acoustic ported subs. After adjusting by ear for many hours over a period of weeks, the settings were left alone for many years.
My stereo system with a minidsp with dirac only required several hours for fiddling with house curves before leaving it alone for over one year.
Confusingly, for me, ARC with 4 sealed subs had not allowed me to achieve that same level of contentedness. Now, ARC genesis has allowed me to settle on settings that, for me, do not require adjustments based on content. This is particularly notable in shows such as Elementary, which had previously required lowering the bass, or Stranger Things, which benefited from increasing the bass. I can't explain what has happened, but the bass, in all instances, seems perfect. In the meantime, I have developed a new way of entertaining myself. I believe that is why I ran REW after adding 1 db to the subs. I am, happily but reluctantly, realizing that there is no longer a benefit to tinkering with the bass. In fact, Anthem has a new beta of Genesis which I am not interested in trying because it requires running a new calibration. Although I have documented my settings, there is always the law of unintended consequences.
Although I am fairly picky in my enjoyments; food, sound, picture, etc., it appears I have been over-matched on these threads.
In case someone is tempted to think that I just stop listening to the quality, I just want to add that because we only turn on the home theater on the weekends, there has never been one time that I haven't felt ridiculously lucky as I have been re-acquainted with the picture and sound of our system.
So the reason I had asked the original question is because you guys are so knowledgeable and demanding concerning your systems that I was just interested in how you thought about the original question.
I have included the graph showing the effect of adding just 1 db to my subs for your entertainment.
Thanks again for your thoughtful responses.
That is some serious SPL at 10Hz!!! Be careful with how loud you listen at FR below 20 ish Hz. We don't hear these frequencies well and as a result we don't physically react to how loud the LOW End FR is like we would to higher FR sound. Our ears are still being bombarded by High levels of low frequency sound waves. In my particular situation I am 100% certain I have caused additional hearing damage with specifically too loud bass. I realize this sounds sacrilegious at first. Low Frequency sound is tricky. Just a friendly reminder to be careful, even if you can't hear it does not mean the Sound pressure waves are not harming your hearing.

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take from somebody else.
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post #1469 of 1476 Old 08-12-2019, 06:02 AM
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Low Frequency Volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

That is some serious SPL at 10Hz!!! Be careful with how loud you listen at FR below 20 ish Hz. We don't hear these frequencies well and as a result we don't physically react to how loud the LOW End FR is like we would to higher FR sound. Our ears are still being bombarded by High levels of low frequency sound waves. In my particular situation I am 100% certain I have caused additional hearing damage with specifically too loud bass. I realize this sounds sacrilegious at first. Low Frequency sound is tricky. Just a friendly reminder to be careful, even if you can't hear it does not mean the Sound pressure waves are not harming your hearing.
Thanks for your concern. I have a close friend who has severely damaged his hearing from years of stick shift drag racing. Even though he rarely complains, his constant tinnitus is obviously very unpleasant.
My wife and I stopped going to the movies several years ago because of the loudness. The last couple of movies we saw required ear plugs. So we know that we definitely do not enjoy overly loud sound. On the rare occasions that I play the system too loudly, my wife quickly asks me to turn it down. In fact, it is one of the few occasions she expresses irritation with me. This alone is sufficient motivation for me to keep the volume at a reasonable level.
The SPL below 20hz is a result of the room gain from our sealed subs, even though behind our rear subs the room is not sealed. Below 10hz, the SPL drops off a cliff. Even without the Deep Bass Boost that I apply from 40 to 20hz, the rise below 20hz remains.
Since we are on a concrete floor covered with carpet, there is relatively little TR. At most, there is an occasional tremble, which is just as I like it. No rattling.
I hope that because the very strong bass effects occur just for moments, we are not in danger of hearing damage. After receiving your warning, I googled the question. From what I could find, blasts below 115 db lasting for seconds are not a risk. However, I will stay alert.
Thanks again.
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post #1470 of 1476 Old 08-15-2019, 01:10 PM
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When calibrating a subwoofer, how high should the volume be set on the rear of sub ? About 50%, then fine tune the level in the receiver's setup menu ? Does it matter much ?

Thanks.
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