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post #1471 of 1630 Old 08-15-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post
When calibrating a subwoofer, how high should the volume be set on the rear of sub ? About 50%, then fine tune the level in the receiver's setup menu ? Does it matter much ?

Thanks.
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post #1472 of 1630 Old 08-16-2019, 12:08 AM
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post #1473 of 1630 Old 08-16-2019, 03:05 AM
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Hoop someone with nearfield experience can help me.


I have an single Rythmik FV15hp sub, it sits directly behind my couch with the driver facing the couch. See pic.
Any further tips about the placement? Far field in front is terrible in my room.



I use Dirac to calibrate my system. What would be the best procedure here?


- Prior to the dirac measurement should I do something with the delay?
- And what with the delay after the measurement, is this reliable?
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post #1474 of 1630 Old 08-16-2019, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbarteli View Post
Hoop someone with nearfield experience can help me.


I have an single Rythmik FV15hp sub, it sits directly behind my couch with the driver facing the couch. See pic.
Any further tips about the placement? Far field in front is terrible in my room.



I use Dirac to calibrate my system. What would be the best procedure here?


- Prior to the dirac measurement should I do something with the delay?
- And what with the delay after the measurement, is this reliable?

Hi,

I will take a shot at this, but I can't tell from your post whether you have REW or not. If you do, measuring your frequency response will help a lot, in this case. First, as I recall, Dirac doesn't set distances for the subs. Perhaps I am mistaken about that and Dirac does set the distance for a single sub, but doesn't set distances for dual subs. In any case, since your subwoofer is directly against your chair, the only real variable is how much delay the sub itself adds.

The Rythmik guys can tell you how much delay the microprocessor in the sub itself usually adds. I would expect it to be in the range of about 7-10ms (which would translate to 7' to 10') but you shouldn't rely on that; you should ask them. If my assumption of delay is correct, you could simply set your distance (timing) to about 7' to 11' and you should be in the ballpark. If Dirac didn't do that for you, or if you suspect that what it set wasn't correct, I would do that after the Dirac calibration.

Now, the only question would be whether you are getting a smooth integration of sub and center channel, or sub and front speakers, at the crossover. And, that's where some experimentation might come in, if you want to do that. You can do that by ear (or with an SPL meter), while playing some complex bass content, but it would be much easier to measure your frequency response. You would be trying to determine if you had any cancellation around your crossover point--typically 80Hz.

Personally, I would start with the setting that Dirac gives you, or with the distance that corresponds to the advice that Enrico or Jim gives you regarding microprocessor delay, and then only experiment further if you are curious, or if something sounds off to you. I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1475 of 1630 Old 08-16-2019, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I will take a shot at this, but I can't tell from your post whether you have REW or not. If you do, measuring your frequency response will help a lot, in this case. First, as I recall, Dirac doesn't set distances for the subs. Perhaps I am mistaken about that and Dirac does set the distance for a single sub, but doesn't set distances for dual subs. In any case, since your subwoofer is directly against your chair, the only real variable is how much delay the sub itself adds.

The Rythmik guys can tell you how much delay the microprocessor in the sub itself usually adds. I would expect it to be in the range of about 7-10ms (which would translate to 7' to 10') but you shouldn't rely on that; you should ask them. If my assumption of delay is correct, you could simply set your distance (timing) to about 7' to 11' and you should be in the ballpark. If Dirac didn't do that for you, or if you suspect that what it set wasn't correct, I would do that after the Dirac calibration.

Now, the only question would be whether you are getting a smooth integration of sub and center channel, or sub and front speakers, at the crossover. And, that's where some experimentation might come in, if you want to do that. You can do that by ear (or with an SPL meter), while playing some complex bass content, but it would be much easier to measure your frequency response. You would be trying to determine if you had any cancellation around your crossover point--typically 80Hz.

Personally, I would start with the setting that Dirac gives you, or with the distance that corresponds to the advice that Enrico or Jim gives you regarding microprocessor delay, and then only experiment further if you are curious, or if something sounds off to you. I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Dirac does set the delay for the sub, but it sets the delay about same the as the fronts. I found this curious, but with the microprocessor in mind it makes more senses.

I got REW, just been a while.....will check the results with REW.

It already sounds very good, just want to know if I am doing everything right. And was wondering with near field positioning if dirac can mess thing up with delay or FR.
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post #1476 of 1630 Old 08-16-2019, 09:53 AM
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REW measurements after Dirac, crossover 80hz. Smoothing 1/12
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post #1477 of 1630 Old 08-20-2019, 05:56 PM
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Mike and Alan, @mthomas47 @Alan P.

Since you both know, that I intend to get a couple FV18 in the future.
I thought to let you guys know of my progress.

Due to Mike encouragement from a PM, to try different locations for the subs.
And Alan, verifying for me the REW Room Simulator. Since I will be using Audyssey XT32.

I got this accomplish today on my first day off of 6.
Move my front/left PB-Ultra13 to the right corner of the back/right wall.
While moving that PB13 on my own was a pain, since that sub weight 22lbs more than me.

Moving the Pop Corn Stand and the two amps with the SMS-1, was even worst.
Due to all the connections required, and did-it the right way.
Disconnect everything, and reconnect after.

So at this point, I got my XLR 32fts extension connected at the new location in the back for the second sub. And my 25fts 20Amp extension coming Friday.
(The only reason for the 20Amp extension cord, is to keep that second sub on the separate 20Amp circuit).

The next few days, will be doing house duty (while my Wife is away for two weeks, the house/fish tanks and yard still require attention. And only got a six days window timewise).
Hopefully I can do a full 8 point calibration on Saturday. Than listen to a movie and try to tweak with the Cascading Crossover.
Than repeat the process, once I got those FV18


Darth

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post #1478 of 1630 Old 08-21-2019, 10:42 AM
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^^^

Keep us updated, Darth!

You have carpet sliders under your subs, right??
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post #1479 of 1630 Old 08-21-2019, 03:58 PM
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^^^

Keep us updated, Darth!

You have carpet sliders under your subs, right??
Sure will

No I did not got any carpet sliders, and to make-it worst my present PB13 have 6 little rubber legs (for the lack of a better word).
Making it even harder to slide
But when there is a will, one always find a way

I have already reset the crossover at max on both subs, and tomorrow will change the LFE back to 120 on my AVP.
To remove the Cascading Crossover , for the calibration purpose.


Darth
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post #1480 of 1630 Old 08-21-2019, 04:16 PM
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Sure will

No I did not got any carpet sliders, and to make-it worst my present PB13 have 6 little rubber legs (for the lack of a better word).
Making it even harder to slide
But when there is a will, one always find a way

I have already reset the crossover at max on both subs, and tomorrow will change the LFE back to 120 on my AVP.
To remove the Cascading Crossover , for the calibration purpose.


Darth
Is it necessary to change the LFE back to 120, before an Audyssey run? I know it takes over a bunch of AVR settings, wonder now about the LFE setting? I’m doing the cascade dance to see if I can detect a difference. Thanks.

HDTV: Panasonic P55VT50 Plasma
AVR: Denon X3500H
SPEAKERS: Ohm (mains), Chane 2.4 (center), Rythmik F12G (sub), DefTech ProMonitor 80 (sats)
MEDIA PLAYER: Oppo BD83
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post #1481 of 1630 Old 08-21-2019, 04:22 PM
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Is it necessary to change the LFE back to 120, before an Audyssey run? I know it takes over a bunch of AVR settings, wonder now about the LFE setting? I’m doing the cascade dance to see if I can detect a difference. Thanks.

While I am not 100% sure, I prefer to be on the safe side. Since having my LFE and sub crossover set at 80Hz.
Might change the reading of the calibration, and only take 5 minutes to set them back at 80Hz after the calibration is done.


Darth
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post #1482 of 1630 Old 08-21-2019, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Is it necessary to change the LFE back to 120, before an Audyssey run? I know it takes over a bunch of AVR settings, wonder now about the LFE setting? I’m doing the cascade dance to see if I can detect a difference. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
While I am not 100% sure, I prefer to be on the safe side. Since having my LFE and sub crossover set at 80Hz.
Might change the reading of the calibration, and only take 5 minutes to set them back at 80Hz after the calibration is done.


Darth

That's an interesting question! In theory, it shouldn't make too much difference, but I would always prefer to let Audyssey do its job for the (more-or-less) full frequency response of a transducer, before adding a house curve or a low-pass filter. If I were absolutely sure that I would always be using cascading crossovers, then it probably wouldn't matter, since the subwoofers would be rolling-off pretty fast above 80Hz anyway, and any control points that Audyssey set for the subwoofers above 80Hz should be irrelevant.

But, as Darth says, it takes so little time to implement cascading crossovers, post-calibration, that I would prefer to start with the full frequency response for my Audyssey runs, and then change the settings afterwards. After all, a little OCD never hurt anyone.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1483 of 1630 Old 08-21-2019, 04:48 PM
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Carpet sliders are cheap, Darth...hernia surgery is not. Ask me how I know.
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post #1484 of 1630 Old 08-21-2019, 05:11 PM
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Carpet sliders are cheap, Darth...hernia surgery is not. Ask me how I know.

Been there, done that about a year ago
And to make things even worst, I could not be put under and had a spinal freezing. That was fun

I will make sure to get some, if that location doesn't work. And make sure when ordering my FV18, to take the few seconds to get them (free with any order)


Darth
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post #1485 of 1630 Old 08-21-2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

But, as Darth says, it takes so little time to implement cascading crossovers, post-calibration, that I would prefer to start with the full frequency response for my Audyssey runs, and then change the settings afterwards. After all, a little OCD never hurt anyone.

Regards,
Mike

Mike, are you saying that I got OCD
Oh wait a minute, you and I. Know that I do


Darth
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post #1486 of 1630 Old 08-22-2019, 04:08 PM
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Today I have completed my 8 points calibration, using Audyssey XT32.

Then use "Olympus has fallen" to try out how the bass sound, with one sub in a new location.
Since I do remember this movie having lots of deep and mid bass.
Listen from the beginning where the jets are shut down, to when the monolith fall down.

My first run was DEQ off, subs crossover disable and the LFE set at 120Hz.
While I did like how it sounded
And decided to try Cascading the Crossover for my second run.
Set the LFE at 80Hz, able the crossover on the sub and set the crossover a 80Hz and kept the DEQ off.
And gave a second spin, of the same chapter of the movie.

While both sounded great, I did prefer Cascading the Crossover.
The bass came clean, without any signs of been bloated for lack of a better term

The only downfall is the Audyssey set both subs at +1dB, compare to my previous one of -5dB.
At my previous locations, since the two subs were closer to each other.
And should mention, I did increase my subs output by +2dB. Going from +1 to +3dB on each subs
While I am done for now, I will increase the gain and match the level output on both subs.
Then redo a calibration, but that's for another time. Since right now, I am very please with the results.

I would like to once again say a Big Thank You, to Mike @mthomas47 and Alan @Alan P for the help they have provided me


Darth

P.S. Due to my OCD, I got myself a real 20 Amp extension. And feel better that both subs stay on my dictated 20 Amp circuit for both subs, even if was not needed

Last edited by darthray; 08-23-2019 at 04:26 AM.
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post #1487 of 1630 Old 08-23-2019, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Today I have completed my 8 points calibration, using Audyssey XT32.

Then use "Olympus has fallen" to try out how the bass sound, with one sub in a new location.
Since I do remember this movie having lots of deep and mid bass.
Listen from the beginning where the jets are shut down, to when the monolith fall down.

My first run was DEQ off, subs crossover disable and the LFE set at 120Hz.
While I did like how it sounded
And decided to try Cascading the Crossover for my second run.
Set the LFE at 80Hz, able the crossover on the sub and set the crossover a 80Hz and kept the DEQ off.
And gave a second spin, of the same chapter of the movie.

While both sounded great, I did prefer Cascading the Crossover.
The bass came clean, without any signs of been bloated for lack of a better term

The only downfall is the Audyssey set both subs at +1dB, compare to my previous one of -5dB.
At my previous locations, since the two subs were closer to each other.
And should mention, I did increase my subs output by +2dB. Going from +1 to +3dB on each subs
While I am done for now, I will increase the gain and match the level output on both subs.
Then redo a calibration, but that's for another time. Since right now, I am very please with the results.


Darth
Hi Darth,

Please forgive me for the questions as I am new here and rely on the information found in the guide.

I’m curious as to why you settled for a Audyssey post-calibration in the positive, and not rerun the first three mic points and adjust the sub(s) gain to achieve a negative post-calibration around -10 to -11? Then increase AVR trim and sub gain to achieve your desired bass volume?

Regards,
Bert

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post #1488 of 1630 Old 08-23-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bertk View Post
Hi Darth,

Please forgive me for the questions as I am new here and rely on the information found in the guide.

I’m curious as to why you settled for a Audyssey post-calibration in the positive, and not rerun the first three mic points and adjust the sub(s) gain to achieve a negative post-calibration around -10 to -11? Then increase AVR trim and sub gain to achieve your desired bass volume?

Regards,
Bert
Hello Bert

First nothing to forgive, around here we learn from each other.

While I did run out of time, and had to let back out of the bedroom our new cat. Still in the kitten stage, and would not leave anything alone. I figure two hours was long enough.
And must say, I did forgot about you could do just a three points calibration. And would be useful to adjust the gain, before doing a full eight point reading.
So thank you, for reminding me of this


Darth

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post #1489 of 1630 Old 08-24-2019, 09:42 AM
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Hello Bert

First nothing to forgive, around here we learn from each other.

While I did run out of time, and had to let back out of the bedroom our new cat. Still in the kitten stage, and would not leave anything alone. I figure two hours was long enough.
And must say, I did forgot about you could do just a three points calibration. And would be useful to adjust the gain, before doing a full eight point reading.
So thank you, for reminding me of this

Darth
Ok gotcha, family first.

I have also found running Audyssey to be time consuming and tedious when it comes to setting trim on multiple subs.

Another tip I found (I think Mike posted in another thread) is it’s not necessary to move the mic from position 1 in the three mic process to set trim.

Next month I’m most likely going to replace a sofa and will be running Audyssey again. This time using Mike’s guide. I’m looking forward to you’re progress.

Bert

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post #1490 of 1630 Old 08-24-2019, 12:35 PM
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Ok gotcha, family first.

I have also found running Audyssey to be time consuming and tedious when it comes to setting trim on multiple subs.

Another tip I found (I think Mike posted in another thread) is it’s not necessary to move the mic from position 1 in the three mic process to set trim.

Next month I’m most likely going to replace a sofa and will be running Audyssey again. This time using Mike’s guide. I’m looking forward to you’re progress.

Bert
HI bert,

Great Tip about initial 3 locations to check Sub trim levels. I think you are correct. You can leave the Mic in the Primary Seat position and just run three sweeps at same location. I think Audyssey uses the First position to set Channel and Sub Gain trims. So its not required to move the mic when trying to get subs to trim out in the Negative Range.
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post #1491 of 1630 Old 08-24-2019, 04:01 PM
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HI bert,

Great Tip about initial 3 locations to check Sub trim levels. I think you are correct. You can leave the Mic in the Primary Seat position and just run three sweeps at same location. I think Audyssey uses the First position to set Channel and Sub Gain trims. So its not required to move the mic when trying to get subs to trim out in the Negative Range.
Thanks for the confirmation Adam. Another time saver.


Regards,
Bert
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post #1492 of 1630 Old 08-24-2019, 04:32 PM
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Ok gotcha, family first.

I have also found running Audyssey to be time consuming and tedious when it comes to setting trim on multiple subs.

Another tip I found (I think Mike posted in another thread) is it’s not necessary to move the mic from position 1 in the three mic process to set trim.

Next month I’m most likely going to replace a sofa and will be running Audyssey again. This time using Mike’s guide. I’m looking forward to you’re progress.

Bert
Hi Bert

Thanks for the tip, I will do this if the following doesn't work.
I intend to pull my dusty SPL meter, and use the manual test tone. To increase the gain on the subs, and have them at the same level.
I figure if I increase around 10dB, it should put me back in the negative numbers once Audyssey is done.

The reason for this, on my Marantz AV7702mkII. Every time you do a new calibration, the AVP will ask what type of set-up for the speakers.
Than ask if you are using RCA or XLR connection, for every speakers and subs. Very time consuming when you got a 7.1.4 (two subs) system

On this note, I am also looking forward to progress.


Darth
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post #1493 of 1630 Old 08-24-2019, 06:11 PM
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Hi Bert

Thanks for the tip, I will do this if the following doesn't work.
I intend to pull my dusty SPL meter, and use the manual test tone. To increase the gain on the subs, and have them at the same level.
I figure if I increase around 10dB, it should put me back in the negative numbers once Audyssey is done.

The reason for this, on my Marantz AV7702mkII. Every time you do a new calibration, the AVP will ask what type of set-up for the speakers.
Than ask if you are using RCA or XLR connection, for every speakers and subs. Very time consuming when you got a 7.1.4 (two subs) system

On this note, I am also looking forward to progress.

Darth
Your welcome Darth.

Yikes you would think that very nice AVR would be smart enough to know you’re using XLR’s.

I don’t have a SPL meter and have never used one. If it would help me match the levels of the two subs post-calibration I would get one. How far from the sub do you place the meter? Can it be placed at the MLP?

I’m curious to see how it works out and if it’s worth the purchase.

Regards,
Bert
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post #1494 of 1630 Old 08-24-2019, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bertk View Post
Your welcome Darth.

Yikes you would think that very nice AVR would be smart enough to know you’re using XLR’s.

I don’t have a SPL meter and have never used one. If it would help me match the levels of the two subs post-calibration I would get one. How far from the sub do you place the meter? Can it be placed at the MLP?

I’m curious to see how it works out and if it’s worth the purchase.

Regards,
Bert

Hi Bert,

If you get an SPL meter, I would get a decent, calibrated one. You would definitely want to measure the SPL of the subs at the MLP, because you would want the room to influence the response, just as it does when you are playing actual bass content.

A simple way to level-match two subs, if you have only one sub out, is to do a one-point (with older Denon/Marantz AVR's) or a three-point calibration (with newer ones) with each sub individually. Once they are level-matched, you just Y-connect them into the same sub out. Then, you proceed to set the gains on the two subs, symmetrically, to whatever setting produces the combined trim level you are shooting for. It sounds a little complicated, but it really only takes a few minutes, and doing it that way doesn't require the use of an SPL meter.

I have stayed out of the discussion, so far, because everyone else was already handling all of the issues. But, I did want to add that there are always several different ways to skin the cat, with respect to level-matching, or gain/trim settings, or just about anything associated with our calibrations. (I know that Darth, a dedicated cat lover, isn't crazy about that expression, but it fits so well. )

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1495 of 1630 Old 08-24-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Bert,

If you get an SPL meter, I would get a decent, calibrated one. You would definitely want to measure the SPL of the subs at the MLP, because you would want the room to influence the response, just as it does when you are playing actual bass content.

A simple way to level-match two subs, if you have only one sub out, is to do a one-point (with older Denon/Marantz AVR's) or a three-point calibration (with newer ones) with each sub individually. Once they are level-matched, you just Y-connect them into the same sub out. Then, you proceed to set the gains on the two subs, symmetrically, to whatever setting produces the combined trim level you are shooting for. It sounds a little complicated, but it really only takes a few minutes, and doing it that way doesn't require the use of an SPL meter.

I have stayed out of the discussion, so far, because everyone else was already handling all of the issues. But, I did want to add that there are always several different ways to skin the cat, with respect to level-matching, or gain/trim settings, or just about anything associated with our calibrations. (I know that Darth, a dedicated cat lover, isn't crazy about that expression, but it fits so well. )

Regards,
Mike
I also am a lover of Cats. Dogs are easy, they love you the moment you look at them. Cats on the other hand require skill and finesse. It is entirely possible your Cat will never love you or call back.
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post #1496 of 1630 Old 08-24-2019, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bertk View Post
Your welcome Darth.

Yikes you would think that very nice AVR would be smart enough to know you’re using XLR’s.

I don’t have a SPL meter and have never used one. If it would help me match the levels of the two subs post-calibration I would get one. How far from the sub do you place the meter? Can it be placed at the MLP?

I’m curious to see how it works out and if it’s worth the purchase.

Regards,
Bert
As mike said in the quote below, you simply put it at your MLP.
Same as position 1 when using Audyssey. Is it worth buying in my opinion, yes.
A well worth buy at around $50. And yes, it would be nice if my AVP remember my previous connections settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Bert,

If you get an SPL meter, I would get a decent, calibrated one. You would definitely want to measure the SPL of the subs at the MLP, because you would want the room to influence the response, just as it does when you are playing actual bass content.

A simple way to level-match two subs, if you have only one sub out, is to do a one-point (with older Denon/Marantz AVR's) or a three-point calibration (with newer ones) with each sub individually. Once they are level-matched, you just Y-connect them into the same sub out. Then, you proceed to set the gains on the two subs, symmetrically, to whatever setting produces the combined trim level you are shooting for. It sounds a little complicated, but it really only takes a few minutes, and doing it that way doesn't require the use of an SPL meter.

I have stayed out of the discussion, so far, because everyone else was already handling all of the issues. But, I did want to add that there are always several different ways to skin the cat, with respect to level-matching, or gain/trim settings, or just about anything associated with our calibrations. (I know that Darth, a dedicated cat lover, isn't crazy about that expression, but it fits so well. )

Regards,
Mike
So it does
And want to point that I am nothing like the Cat crazy lady, but the Cat crazy gentleman


Darth

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post #1497 of 1630 Old 08-24-2019, 08:44 PM
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I also am a lover of Cats. Dogs are easy, they love you the moment you look at them. Cats on the other hand require skill and finesse. It is entirely possible your Cat will never love you or call back.
Very true

I think, as long you pay attention to them. Most cats will love you back, while still staying independent.
While some others, will greed you at the door everyday. Like Smokey that I lost over 4 years ago did, and this new kitten also do. And Sammy once in a while now
(Sammy use to do it often, but doesn't quit get along with Teddy (new kitten) at the moment. So when he greed me, she normally stay on top of the edge)

And for calling you back, they do know how to use a phone (knowing what you meant, LOL). But there are many story of Cats and Dogs, traveling a great distance to come back to their home

That said, cats and dogs, do require lots of patience from their owner/provider (I never call my self an owner, I prefer to say "I am their provider. To provide food/Love and medical care).


Darth
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post #1498 of 1630 Old 08-25-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Bert,

If you get an SPL meter, I would get a decent, calibrated one. You would definitely want to measure the SPL of the subs at the MLP, because you would want the room to influence the response, just as it does when you are playing actual bass content.
For the next calibration I’m going to be picking up a boom stand and adapter so this will probably be a good time to pick up a SPL meter also.

If anyone has a recommendation for a good, easy to use meter that would be very helpful.

Quote:
A simple way to level-match two subs, if you have only one sub out, is to do a one-point (with older Denon/Marantz AVR's) or a three-point calibration (with newer ones) with each sub individually. Once they are level-matched, you just Y-connect them into the same sub out. Then, you proceed to set the gains on the two subs, symmetrically, to whatever setting produces the combined trim level you are shooting for. It sounds a little complicated, but it really only takes a few minutes, and doing it that way doesn't require the use of an SPL meter.
The Denon 3400 has dual sub outs. So matching sub levels in Audyssey isn’t hard. Just time consuming particularly due to the sensitivity of the gain knob on the sub which do not have clicks. This being the case, symmetrically increasing the gain on both subs post-calibration is most likely very inexact and the reason (OCD kicking in) for bringing up the purchase of a SPL meter that will work well with low frequencies.

Quote:
I have stayed out of the discussion, so far, because everyone else was already handling all of the issues. But, I did want to add that there are always several different ways to skin the cat, with respect to level-matching, or gain/trim settings, or just about anything associated with our calibrations. (I know that Darth, a dedicated cat lover, isn't crazy about that expression, but it fits so well. )
The sign of a good leader

Regards,
Bert

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post #1499 of 1630 Old 08-25-2019, 06:17 PM
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For the next calibration I’m going to be picking up a boom stand and adapter so this will probably be a good time to pick up a SPL meter also.

If anyone has a recommendation for a good, easy to use meter that would be very helpful.

The Denon 3400 has dual sub outs. So matching sub levels in Audyssey isn’t hard. Just time consuming particularly due to the sensitivity of the gain knob on the sub which do not have clicks. This being the case, symmetrically increasing the gain on both subs post-calibration is most likely very inexact and the reason (OCD kicking in) for bringing up the purchase of a SPL meter that will work well with low frequencies.

The sign of a good leader

Regards,
Bert
For recommendation, I do not have one since I have been out of the market for a long time. Mine is a old Radio Shack.
That said, unless using a SPL for precise calibration for different frequencies.
I personally think, any descent one would do. If use for level adjustment only using a manual test tone, from your AVR.
It should have no problem to put you in the ball park, to have your subs playing at the same level. Since it is not just one frequencies, but a combination of frequency.

I also look-up your Denon 3400. Good news indeed, it is not one of those AVR that use an internal Y-splitter. Since it use XT-32
So matching the subs levels and delays, after you put them near the same output level using the gain level on both subs.
Will be a breeze

For been a sign, of a good leader.
Big +1
But always love to read his opinion


Darth

Last edited by darthray; 08-25-2019 at 06:39 PM.
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post #1500 of 1630 Old 08-26-2019, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bertk View Post
For the next calibration I’m going to be picking up a boom stand and adapter so this will probably be a good time to pick up a SPL meter also.

If anyone has a recommendation for a good, easy to use meter that would be very helpful.


The Denon 3400 has dual sub outs. So matching sub levels in Audyssey isn’t hard. Just time consuming particularly due to the sensitivity of the gain knob on the sub which do not have clicks. This being the case, symmetrically increasing the gain on both subs post-calibration is most likely very inexact and the reason (OCD kicking in) for bringing up the purchase of a SPL meter that will work well with low frequencies.


The sign of a good leader

Regards,
Bert
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
For recommendation, I do not have one since I have been out of the market for a long time. Mine is a old Radio Shack.
That said, unless using a SPL for precise calibration for different frequencies.
I personally think, any descent one would do. If use for level adjustment only using a manual test tone, from your AVR.
It should have no problem to put you in the ball park, to have your subs playing at the same level. Since it is not just one frequencies, but a combination of frequency.

I also look-up your Denon 3400. Good news indeed, it is not one of those AVR that use an internal Y-splitter. Since it use XT-32
So matching the subs levels and delays, after you put them near the same output level using the gain level on both subs.
Will be a breeze

For been a sign, of a good leader.
Big +1
But always love to read his opinion


Darth


Thanks for the kind words, guys!

I agree with Darth that almost any SPL meter would work, since you would just be using it to level-match subwoofers, and it's error factor should be irrelevant for that. But, I like the idea of being able to check my volume levels with a little more accuracy, and for that a calibrated SPL meter is more helpful.

I would recommend the Galaxy CM-140, but the price on those has gone up a good bit since I bought mine several years ago. I did a quick Amazon search and came up with a long list. The first one looks like a good one:

https://www.amazon.com/VLIKE-Digital...s%2C145&sr=8-3

Another alternative would be a Dayton Audio iMM-6. That will allow you to measure more than just your SPL, and it works with your smartphone, so you don't need to use a laptop as you would with a UMIK-1 and REW. It is actually less expensive than most of the decent SPL meters, although its use is necessarily more complicated than just using an SPL meter. Here is a link for it:

http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php...icrophone.html

And then, of course, you can go a little deeper down the rabbit hole by buying a UMIK-1, and by downloading REW which is a free measurement tool. The use of REW does require a laptop. Here is a link to that:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/aco...urement/umik-1

I felt that it was appropriate to list options, rather than to just make suggestions for a calibrated SPL meter, for others who may also be reading along and whose interests may range from SPL measurement to frequency response and beyond.

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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