Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1531 of 1605 Old 09-13-2019, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Hi pbz06,

I was hoping one of the big dogs in here was going to address this, but since it has not been mentioned yet. I will attempt to address what I read as a possible, very minor error, in your post calibration crossover settings/tweak.

Concerning your Surrounds crossover setting. If my memory serves, and sometimes it does not! Setting a Speakers crossover LOWER than that of what Audyssey sets is not recommended. Here is why it is not. When Audyssey determines the F3 or Crossover point of a given Speaker, it then applies that crossover value as a "lower" end limit on where it will set/apply EQ filters. Audyssey then ignores EQing the FR below this point (90Hz in your case), since the Audyssey algorithm now assumes any sound produced below this 90Hz Crossover will be low enough in volume to be of minimal influence on the soundfield.

Therefore if post Audyssey the user manually sets the crossover to a lower value, you are now introducing Sound below the point there Audyssey has set EQ filters. Is it a big deal? I doubt it with such a small change (From 90Hz to 80Hz in this case). But I thought you should at least be aware of this fact.

While raising the Crossover from what Audyssey sets is fine since EQ filters have been calculated and put in place for the FR above set Crossover. The rule of thumb I remember, is it is ok to Raise Crossover points, but never lower them beyond Calibration settings.

Anybody correct me here If I am incorrect in my powers of recollection ?

Hi Adam,

As usual, your recollection and explanation are exactly right! I can't speak for anyone else, but as you may have noted, I "Liked" the post you quoted. The main reason I didn't also remind the OP that it generally isn't advisable to lower crossovers, from wherever an AVR sets them, is that he said that he had recently reread the entire Guide, and that point is already clearly emphasized in the section on crossovers.

FWIW, I agree with both you and him that the practical effect of changing a surround crossover from 90Hz to 80Hz is probably very modest. I would personally be much more reluctant to drop any crossovers for the speakers on my front soundstage, as they carry so much more of the load on a more-or-less continuous basis. And, I would also be more reluctant to reduce crossovers at frequencies below about 80Hz, as below that frequency I think that the strain on speakers can really multiply.

I suspect that he could leave his surround crossover set at 90Hz and never hear any difference from setting it at 80Hz, but I understand that our OCD can be pretty compelling sometimes.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1532 of 1605 Old 09-13-2019, 07:21 AM
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Haa, thanks guys. I'm very aware about not lowering it and the reasons (it's in the guide and Audyssey guide) hence my internal struggle If the F3 is like 81hz, it will set it to 90hz...but filters are still applied to 81hz I think.

80, 80, 80, 80, 80 looks better than 80, 80, 90, 80, 80

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post #1533 of 1605 Old 09-13-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Adam,

As usual, your recollection and explanation are exactly right! I can't speak for anyone else, but as you may have noted, I "Liked" the post you quoted. The main reason I didn't also remind the OP that it generally isn't advisable to lower crossovers, from wherever an AVR sets them, is that he said that he had recently reread the entire Guide, and that point is already clearly emphasized in the section on crossovers.

FWIW, I agree with both you and him that the practical effect of changing a surround crossover from 90Hz to 80Hz is probably very modest. I would personally be much more reluctant to drop any crossovers for the speakers on my front soundstage, as they carry so much more of the load on a more-or-less continuous basis. And, I would also be more reluctant to reduce crossovers at frequencies below about 80Hz, as below that frequency I think that the strain on speakers can really multiply.

I suspect that he could leave his surround crossover set at 90Hz and never hear any difference from setting it at 80Hz, but I understand that our OCD can be pretty compelling sometimes.

Regards,
Mike
Hi MIke,

I was kinda hoping you would reply. And I had assumed you had decided to just let it ride in the previous follow up post/Like.

It has taken me 10 years to embrace the crossovers set by Audyssey. I have always fought back and through my Speakers can dig lower than that!!! Thinking I know better What has taken so long to sink into my obviously thick and scarred Skull, is the secondary benefit of setting higher crossovers. That being wasted energy from the AVR/AMP to try to produce sound at or below the Speakers In Room true F3 point.

It was a long time coming before I realized what I was doing to my system. Knowing now, what I have learned from you and others in here, was a hard lesson in energy management of the AVR/Amp and the Powered Subs. By forcing the AVR to devote power to drive Speakers to FR levels they could not produce at any usable volume was pure wasted headroom. I was essentially pushing power for no resultant gain, stressing my speakers drivers and introducing higher distortion, while at the same time I was throttling back my Subs.

This all started with the "Small" or "Large" settings concept. I bought LARGE Towers by god, and they will be set as LARGE regardless of what this Stupid AVR tells me!

But once I started to look at this from the opposite direction. As a Power management scheme it became abundantly clear I was vastly suboptimizing my systems potential. Now I go to opposite extremes. I set all Speaker crossovers Higher than Audyssey reports. And send all the difficult to reproduce and high power demanding frequencies to the Speakers that are specifically designed to handle that content. My Subs.

The results are many. My AVR runs cooler by 5-7 degrees F, has added headroom for louder passages of Music/Movies. Sounds crystal clear and effortless. Increased enveloping, tighter, cleaner and finer tuned sound from the supporting Speakers. Eliminated/reduced "Bass cancellation" issues I had created by having Subs and Speakers producing the same frequencies. Puts less strain on my Speakers and AVR/Amps. Sends bass to the place it can be reproduced with extreme authority, clarity and energy. The Sound improvement is dramatic/drastic. I simply had to sit back and let my ears tell me instead of my Brain overriding them.

I have seen the light and been forever converted! See even Old Dogs can learn new tricks. Just takes more whacks in the head to penetrate barnacle encrusted Brain Housing Group.

Many thanks to "you" and "your Guide"! It is this specific thread that pushed me to reconsider my thinking and realize I was going about this Bass ackward.

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post #1534 of 1605 Old 09-13-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
Haa, thanks guys. I'm very aware about not lowering it and the reasons (it's in the guide and Audyssey guide) hence my internal struggle If the F3 is like 81hz, it will set it to 90hz...but filters are still applied to 81hz I think.

80, 80, 80, 80, 80 looks better than 80, 80, 90, 80, 80
Have you tried 90, 90, 90, 90, 90?? If not, give it a go, you may like it!
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Have you tried 90, 90, 90, 90, 90?? If not, give it a go, you may like it!
I'm going to take Adamg's and Mike's advice and resist the urge to fight against best advice!

80, 80, 90, 90, 90 feels better

80 for front, 90 for all surrounds and ceiling. I'm also enjoying the cascading crossovers. I have LPF of LFE to 80 to match fronts, and my sub is at 90
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
I'm going to take Adamg's and Mike's advice and resist the urge to fight against best advice!

80, 80, 90, 90, 90 feels better

80 for front, 90 for all surrounds and ceiling
This is just my personal experience with my system, in my room...but I have found that when I have varying crossovers it just doesn't sound quite as good as when all speakers are crossed the same. Could just be a characteristic of my particular room/system, but I always try to encourage folks to experiment with it.
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post #1537 of 1605 Old 09-13-2019, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Hi MIke,

I was kinda hoping you would reply. And I had assumed you had decided to just let it ride in the previous follow up post/Like.

It has taken me 10 years to embrace the crossovers set by Audyssey. I have always fought back and through my Speakers can dig lower than that!!! Thinking I know better What has taken so long to sink into my obviously thick and scarred Skull, is the secondary benefit of setting higher crossovers. That being wasted energy from the AVR/AMP to try to produce sound at or below the Speakers In Room true F3 point.

It was a long time coming before I realized what I was doing to my system. Knowing now, what I have learned from you and others in here, was a hard lesson in energy management of the AVR/Amp and the Powered Subs. By forcing the AVR to devote power to drive Speakers to FR levels they could not produce at any usable volume was pure wasted headroom. I was essentially pushing power for no resultant gain, stressing my speakers drivers and introducing higher distortion, while at the same time I was throttling back my Subs.

This all started with the "Small" or "Large" settings concept. I bought LARGE Towers by god, and they will be set as LARGE regardless of what this Stupid AVR tells me!

But once I started to look at this from the opposite direction. As a Power management scheme it became abundantly clear I was vastly suboptimizing my systems potential. Now I go to opposite extremes. I set all Speaker crossovers Higher than Audyssey reports. And send all the difficult to reproduce and high power demanding frequencies to the Speakers that are specifically designed to handle that content. My Subs.

The results are many. My AVR runs cooler by 5-7 degrees F, has added headroom for louder passages of Music/Movies. Sounds crystal clear and effortless. Increased enveloping, tighter, cleaner and finer tuned sound from the supporting Speakers. Eliminated/reduced "Bass cancellation" issues I had created by having Subs and Speakers producing the same frequencies. Puts less strain on my Speakers and AVR/Amps. Sends bass to the place it can be reproduced with extreme authority, clarity and energy. The Sound improvement is dramatic/drastic. I simply had to sit back and let my ears tell me instead of my Brain overriding them.

I have seen the light and been forever converted! See even Old Dogs can learn new tricks. Just takes more whacks in the head to penetrate barnacle encrusted Brain Housing Group.

Many thanks to "you" and "your Guide"! It is this specific thread that pushed me to reconsider my thinking and realize I was going about this Bass ackward.


Thank you very much for the compliment, Adam! Sharing valuable information, in the way you have described, is exactly what I hoped to accomplish when I created the Guide. And, making it into a "Sticky", with its own discussion thread, has really facilitated the dissemination of useful information in my opinion.

FWIW, I suspect that most of us went through a process very similar to the one you describe. I know that I did! It wasn't until I started to get more serious about HT and about the deep bass in movies, and started to back-up my interest with more powerful subwoofers, that I really began to get it. And, like you, I experimented to discover what others had already discovered before me: good subwoofers are much more capable than even most very large speakers below about 60 or 80Hz.

This is something that gets stressed a lot in the Guide, and by various people on a number of other threads. We really need to do two things. First, we need to understand some fundamental audio/HT concepts well enough to be able to experiment/measure/listen in an effective way. Second, we need to ultimately trust our own hearing as to what sounds best in our individual rooms, with our individual equipment, and for our individual preferences.

Incidentally, the paragraph of yours that I bolded was extremely well written and complete!

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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Hi Darth,

I was just looking at your theater thread again, and reading your tribute to your buddy, Smoky. You are not only big enough to admit mistakes, your heart is big enough for two people. I just wanted you to know that!

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike,

Thank You so much, for those very kind words. And is very much appreciated


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I re-read the entire guide, and it convinced me to set my front towers back to 80hz (as opposed to 60hz or 40hz; they roll off at 32hs ish)

They do have built-in 10" woofers with their own amp and power supply, but it was interesting to be reminded that they still don't compare to a dedicated subwoofer when it comes to driving the loads loud and cleanly and distortion free.

My only OCD that is bugging me is that XT32 finds my surrounds at 90hz (they always come out to 80hz when running through the AVR). I still drop them down to 80 since it's so close, and the crude before and after graphs show it rolling off smooth below 80 but a small null at like 85. It's such a small gap between 80 and 90hz that I think I'm OK =/

A friend of mine has speakers like that and I've always been curious how they would perform if he wired those subwoofers separately, driving them off the subwoofer output and setting the main speakers to small (without a separate sub). We haven't ever tried it, but I'm curious if you have and how your results came out. You still wouldn't have the flexibility in placement that a completely separate sub would have, but I'm curious how it would compare to just driving the speakers set to large. My best guess is that it nets out about the same, but I'm not sure if it would make a difference for Audyssey.
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Originally Posted by Foundation42 View Post
A friend of mine has speakers like that and I've always been curious how they would perform if he wired those subwoofers separately, driving them off the subwoofer output and setting the main speakers to small (without a separate sub). We haven't ever tried it, but I'm curious if you have and how your results came out. You still wouldn't have the flexibility in placement that a completely separate sub would have, but I'm curious how it would compare to just driving the speakers set to large. My best guess is that it nets out about the same, but I'm not sure if it would make a difference for Audyssey.
Yes I have, so basically it comes down to a couple scenarios...

If you have no separate subwoofer at all, you're better off keeping the towers as Large using only speaker wire connections and in AVR set the subwoofer to "no". That's how the manufacturer recommends it (Definitive Technology) so the internal crossovers are used as intended.

It you want to use the LFE line input and tweak the sub you can, and then set them to small with a crossover. There's little reason to do this since all frequencies are played within the same speaker anyway, compared to the first option.

If you add a separate subwoofer that has equal or similar capabilities as the built in towers, you can use option 2 so you can potentially blend and smooth out the response by trying a different crossover. The manufacturer recommends 80hz or less for the built in subs.

If your separate subwoofer is way better, like in my case (15" HSU), I'm better off freeing up the loads from the towers and sending it to the separate subwoofer. They will still play down to 40hz with an 80hz crossover since there's a -12dB per octave slope, so the 10" woofers are still used.

Ps the 10" woofers in my towers roll off around 32hz...my HSU rolls off around 18hz.

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post #1541 of 1605 Old 09-15-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
Yes I have, so basically it comes down to a couple scenarios...

If you have no separate subwoofer at all, you're better off keeping the towers as Large using only speaker wire connections and in AVR set the subwoofer to "no". That's how the manufacturer recommends it (Definitive Technology) so the internal crossovers are used.

It you want to use the LFE line input and tweak the sub you can, and then set them to small with a crossover. There's little reason to do this since all frequencies are played within the same speaker.

If you add a separate subwoofer that has equal or similar capabilities as the built in towers, you can use option 2 so you can potentially blend and smooth out the response.

If your separate subwoofer is way better, like in my case (15" HSU), I'm better off freeing up the loads from the towers and sending it to the separate subwoofer. They will still play down to 40hz with an 80hz crossover since there's a -12dB per octave slope.

Ps the 10" woofers in my towers roll off around 32hz...my HSU rolls off around 18hz.

That makes sense, let each speaker work as it was designed and do what it does best.
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post #1542 of 1605 Old 09-15-2019, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
Yes I have, so basically it comes down to a couple scenarios...

If you have no separate subwoofer at all, you're better off keeping the towers as Large using only speaker wire connections and in AVR set the subwoofer to "no". That's how the manufacturer recommends it (Definitive Technology) so the internal crossovers are used as intended.

It you want to use the LFE line input and tweak the sub you can, and then set them to small with a crossover. There's little reason to do this since all frequencies are played within the same speaker anyway, compared to the first option.

If you add a separate subwoofer that has equal or similar capabilities as the built in towers, you can use option 2 so you can potentially blend and smooth out the response by trying a different crossover. The manufacturer recommends 80hz or less for the built in subs.

If your separate subwoofer is way better, like in my case (15" HSU), I'm better off freeing up the loads from the towers and sending it to the separate subwoofer. They will still play down to 40hz with an 80hz crossover since there's a -12dB per octave slope, so the 10" woofers are still used.

Ps the 10" woofers in my towers roll off around 32hz...my HSU rolls off around 18hz.
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That makes sense, let each speaker work as it was designed and do what it does best.
Correct, and I also set my towers to Small using a 80Hz crossover point. While some think it is a waste of using Towers, they do sound much better during those very loud and heavy bass moment's. Found in so many movies, now a day. And never look back after some experimentation with different crossover point, since the crossover is not a brick wall. And some lower frequencies will still be played, just at lower SPL.


Darth

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post #1543 of 1605 Old 09-19-2019, 12:17 PM
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Hello I could use some pointers on my subs. I am not new to this but also very far from smart on all this. I just read through the entire two posts at the first. Man what a read but what a awesome amount of good knowledge. Just awesome.

So I just built two mini Marty subs with the ultimax 18 drivers with the nx6000d amp they are awesome. I was going to sale two BIC America f12 subs but I experimented last night putting them behind the couch and it adds a cool effect! I also have a Denon 4500h avr with two sub outs and a Dayton amp to run aura shakers in the couch.
How should I set these up? One rca to xlr from sub out 1 to the nx 6000d for the two front subs
Then split sub out two and run one cable back to both f12 subs behind the couch and one to the shaker amp.
Then I am guessing I will run Audyssey and level match both front subs. Then with shakers off level match both back f12 subs. Is this a good way to do this? Let me know what you guys think. Thank you!
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post #1544 of 1605 Old 09-19-2019, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello I could use some pointers on my subs. I am not new to this but also very far from smart on all this. I just read through the entire two posts at the first. Man what a read but what a awesome amount of good knowledge. Just awesome.

So I just built two mini Marty subs with the ultimax 18 drivers with the nx6000d amp they are awesome. I was going to sale two BIC America f12 subs but I experimented last night putting them behind the couch and it adds a cool effect! I also have a Denon 4500h avr with two sub outs and a Dayton amp to run aura shakers in the couch.
How should I set these up? One rca to xlr from sub out 1 to the nx 6000d for the two front subs
Then split sub out two and run one cable back to both f12 subs behind the couch and one to the shaker amp.
Then I am guessing I will run Audyssey and level match both front subs. Then with shakers off level match both back f12 subs. Is this a good way to do this? Let me know what you guys think. Thank you!

Hi,

Thanks for the compliment! I am glad the Guide was helpful. The process you have described sounds like the best way to do this. You might, for instance, want to use both sub outs to level-match the two F12's before you plug the 6000d into Sub Out 1 and the F12's into Sub Out 2. Once you have the rear subs level-matched, you can repeat the process with the front subs, and then plug all four subs into their respective sub outs and level-match both pairs. As you may know, you can level-match two subs, with Audyssey, from the first mic position. That may be exactly what you were proposing, but I thought I would clarify it anyway, just to be sure.

I think you also know this part, but I would run Audyssey without the shakers, and then add-in the shakers after you have finished and saved the Audyssey calibration. If you do it that way, the shakers won't mess-up the room correction that Audyssey sets, and Audyssey will never know that you have connected the Dayton amp to Sub Out 2 post-calibration.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntmx24 View Post
Hello I could use some pointers on my subs. I am not new to this but also very far from smart on all this. I just read through the entire two posts at the first. Man what a read but what a awesome amount of good knowledge. Just awesome.

So I just built two mini Marty subs with the ultimax 18 drivers with the nx6000d amp they are awesome. I was going to sale two BIC America f12 subs but I experimented last night putting them behind the couch and it adds a cool effect! I also have a Denon 4500h avr with two sub outs and a Dayton amp to run aura shakers in the couch.
How should I set these up? One rca to xlr from sub out 1 to the nx 6000d for the two front subs
Then split sub out two and run one cable back to both f12 subs behind the couch and one to the shaker amp.
Then I am guessing I will run Audyssey and level match both front subs. Then with shakers off level match both back f12 subs. Is this a good way to do this? Let me know what you guys think. Thank you!

Hi,

Thanks for the compliment! I am glad the Guide was helpful. The process you have described sounds like the best way to do this. You might, for instance, want to use both sub outs to level-match the two F12's before you plug the 6000d into Sub Out 1 and the F12's into Sub Out 2. Once you have the rear subs level-matched, you can repeat the process with the front subs, and then plug all four subs into their respective sub outs and level-match both pairs. As you may know, you can level-match two subs, with Audyssey, from the first mic position. That may be exactly what you were proposing, but I thought I would clarify it anyway, just to be sure.

I think you also know this part, but I would run Audyssey without the shakers, and then add-in the shakers after you have finished and saved the Audyssey calibration. If you do it that way, the shakers won't mess-up the room correction that Audyssey sets, and Audyssey will never know that you have connected the Dayton amp to Sub Out 2 post-calibration.

Regards,
Mike
Yea I think when I am level matching I will just turn one sub off get the one to the level I want then switch to the other one and get it too where I want. And do that for both the fronts and the back so in the end they will be leveled equally. It will be fun to play around with this to see how it sounds once I run Audyssey to get the rear subs calibrated better. Right now I have sub out one going to the left front sub and sub out two splitting going to her shaker and front sub right. But I had to have different avr trims since the signal strength was lower after splitting so it will be nice to just have the Marty subs on one sub out so the trim will run both. We will see how it goes. But after going from the two f12 subs alone up front then building the Marty’s. It’s amazing how much I was missing in low end. When I go back and forth between the two to see how the old subs compared.
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post #1546 of 1605 Old 09-19-2019, 04:54 PM
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Hi,

Thanks for the compliment! I am glad the Guide was helpful. The process you have described sounds like the best way to do this. You might, for instance, want to use both sub outs to level-match the two F12's before you plug the 6000d into Sub Out 1 and the F12's into Sub Out 2. Once you have the rear subs level-matched, you can repeat the process with the front subs, and then plug all four subs into their respective sub outs and level-match both pairs. As you may know, you can level-match two subs, with Audyssey, from the first mic position. That may be exactly what you were proposing, but I thought I would clarify it anyway, just to be sure.

I think you also know this part, but I would run Audyssey without the shakers, and then add-in the shakers after you have finished and saved the Audyssey calibration. If you do it that way, the shakers won't mess-up the room correction that Audyssey sets, and Audyssey will never know that you have connected the Dayton amp to Sub Out 2 post-calibration.

Regards,
Mike
+1

Since the front are equidistance, from the OP @Huntmx24 picture. That should not really be needing any change in the phase for distance, from each other. And since the F12's should also be near each other together, distance wise from the back of the couch. Using the two outputs, one for the Marty's and the other one for the F12's should result in a better calibration. And also mentioning having the TT Off, since they might introduce wrong reading from the Audyssey microphone during calibration. As mention in the Audyssey guide.


Darth
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Last edited by darthray; 09-19-2019 at 05:38 PM.
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Hi,

Thanks for the compliment! I am glad the Guide was helpful. The process you have described sounds like the best way to do this. You might, for instance, want to use both sub outs to level-match the two F12's before you plug the 6000d into Sub Out 1 and the F12's into Sub Out 2. Once you have the rear subs level-matched, you can repeat the process with the front subs, and then plug all four subs into their respective sub outs and level-match both pairs. As you may know, you can level-match two subs, with Audyssey, from the first mic position. That may be exactly what you were proposing, but I thought I would clarify it anyway, just to be sure.

I think you also know this part, but I would run Audyssey without the shakers, and then add-in the shakers after you have finished and saved the Audyssey calibration. If you do it that way, the shakers won't mess-up the room correction that Audyssey sets, and Audyssey will never know that you have connected the Dayton amp to Sub Out 2 post-calibration.

Regards,
Mike
+1

Since the front are equidistance, from the OP @Huntmx24 picture. That should not really be needing any change in the phase for distance, from each other. And since the F12's should also be near each other together, distance wise from the back of the couch. Using the two outputs, one for the Marty's and the other one for the F12's should result in a better calibration. And also mentioning having the TT Off, since they might introduce wrong reading from the Audyssey microphone during calibration. As mention in the Audyssey guide.


Darth
I got the outputs switched so the Marty’s go sub out 1 to the nx6000d one rca to xlr then it looks like it’s controlled off just one knob on the front. This should be ok. They should be outputting the same volume. Then I split out 2 to the shakers and f12’s. Got the mic ready. Just have to wait for the kids to go to bed so the house is quiet enough for Calibration then I can try it out
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post #1548 of 1605 Old 09-19-2019, 05:50 PM
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I got the outputs switched so the Marty’s go sub out 1 to the nx6000d one rca to xlr then it looks like it’s controlled off just one knob on the front. This should be ok. They should be outputting the same volume. Then I split out 2 to the shakers and f12’s. Got the mic ready. Just have to wait for the kids to go to bed so the house is quiet enough for Calibration then I can try it out

All the best, for your calibration
One thing that I have learn over the years, is to turn off all the phone/furnace or AC. So nothing start making noise during the process.


Darth
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I got the outputs switched so the Marty’️s go sub out 1 to the nx6000d one rca to xlr then it looks like it’️s controlled off just one knob on the front. This should be ok. They should be outputting the same volume. Then I split out 2 to the shakers and f12’️s. Got the mic ready. Just have to wait for the kids to go to bed so the house is quiet enough for Calibration then I can try it out

All the best, for your calibration[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
One thing that I have learn over the years, is to turn off all the phone/furnace or AC. So nothing start making noise during the process.


Darth
What about calibrating without my projector on as well? It’s above and back a bit from mlp.
Might be best to run with out that on too right?
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post #1550 of 1605 Old 09-19-2019, 06:31 PM
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What about calibrating without my projector on as well? It’s above and back a bit from mlp.
Might be best to run with out that on too right?
In my case, having a JVC LCOS projector. The fan noise is picked-up by the microphone. And might not be case, for everyone. The way I remedy this problem, was buying a very small Monitor on sale. To be use only during calibration, so it can be total silence by disconnect the projector. And use a small HDMI extention


Darth

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What about calibrating without my projector on as well? It’️s above and back a bit from mlp.
Might be best to run with out that on too right?

In my case, having a JVC LCOS projector. The fan noise is picked-up by the microphone.
I will wait till my boys are asleep and calibrate with the projector off too
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

Thanks for the compliment! I am glad the Guide was helpful. The process you have described sounds like the best way to do this. You might, for instance, want to use both sub outs to level-match the two F12's before you plug the 6000d into Sub Out 1 and the F12's into Sub Out 2. Once you have the rear subs level-matched, you can repeat the process with the front subs, and then plug all four subs into their respective sub outs and level-match both pairs. As you may know, you can level-match two subs, with Audyssey, from the first mic position. That may be exactly what you were proposing, but I thought I would clarify it anyway, just to be sure.

I think you also know this part, but I would run Audyssey without the shakers, and then add-in the shakers after you have finished and saved the Audyssey calibration. If you do it that way, the shakers won't mess-up the room correction that Audyssey sets, and Audyssey will never know that you have connected the Dayton amp to Sub Out 2 post-calibration.

Regards,
Mike
+1

Since the front are equidistance, from the OP @Huntmx24 picture. That should not really be needing any change in the phase for distance, from each other. And since the F12's should also be near each other together, distance wise from the back of the couch. Using the two outputs, one for the Marty's and the other one for the F12's should result in a better calibration. And also mentioning having the TT Off, since they might introduce wrong reading from the Audyssey microphone during calibration. As mention in the Audyssey guide.


Darth
So you think it will be fine having Audyssey seeing both front subs as one sub? I plan to get a mic some day so I could further eq them individually.

Last edited by Huntmx24; 09-19-2019 at 07:18 PM.
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post #1553 of 1605 Old 09-20-2019, 07:06 AM
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So you think it will be fine having Audyssey seeing both front subs as one sub? I plan to get a mic some day so I could further eq them individually.
Yes
Once Audyssey XT32 (assuming yours is able to do XT32), do the first run. It adjust the small volume and delay difference between sub 1 & 2. Two pair in your case, the front one and the back one. After that, it does the calibration as One Sub only within your room. No matter the amount of subs you got, since there is only one bass soundtrack in any recording. The reason even an Atmos recording that is 7.1.4, will be threated that way. Just like my system 7.1.4 (2 subs).

To adjust each sub individually, I believe you need REW or a Mini-PSD. But can be difficult to do, Myself I will not attend that, having only two subs. Since at the end all subs will be threated as one during calibration.


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So you think it will be fine having Audyssey seeing both front subs as one sub? I plan to get a mic some day so I could further eq them individually.

Yes[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Once Audyssey XT32 (assuming yours is able to do XT32), do the first run. It adjust the small volume and delay difference between sub 1 & 2. Two pair in your case, the front one and the back one. After that, it does the calibration as One Sub only within your room.
I went through and got it calibrated last Night. The subs behind the couch now mesh into the bass well! Now I want to play with my crossovers some more. I have BIC America fh-6t for my lcr speakers and my rears are BIC fh8-w and my ceiling are osd audio ice670( I think).
I set the fronts to small and the cross over to 80 for all. And then lfe+main. It sounds pretty awesome! Before I had crossover for fronts at 90 and rears and ceiling at 100. Any suggestions? This I’m sure comes down to what sounds best to my ears in the end.
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post #1555 of 1605 Old 09-20-2019, 07:24 AM
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I went through and got it calibrated last Night. The subs behind the couch now mesh into the bass well! Now I want to play with my crossovers some more. I have BIC America fh-6t for my lcr speakers and my rears are BIC fh8-w and my ceiling are osd audio ice670( I think).
I set the fronts to small and the cross over to 80 for all. And then lfe+main. It sounds pretty awesome! Before I had crossover for fronts at 90 and rears and ceiling at 100. Any suggestions? This I’m sure comes down to what sounds best to my ears in the end.
Just use LFE without the +main, try either 80-90Hz to see what sound best to you. While I do have my surround set at 80Hz, except for the rear ceiling at 90Hz. Many folks like the 90Hz, since they receive less information from the recording and might sound better.


Darth
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I went through and got it calibrated last Night. The subs behind the couch now mesh into the bass well! Now I want to play with my crossovers some more. I have BIC America fh-6t for my lcr speakers and my rears are BIC fh8-w and my ceiling are osd audio ice670( I think).
I set the fronts to small and the cross over to 80 for all. And then lfe+main. It sounds pretty awesome! Before I had crossover for fronts at 90 and rears and ceiling at 100. Any suggestions? This I’️m sure comes down to what sounds best to my ears in the end.
Just use LFE without the +main, try either 80-90Hz to see what sound best to you. While I do have my surround set at 80Hz, except for the rear ceiling at 90Hz. Many folks like the 90Hz, since they receive less information from the recording and might sound better.


Darth
why do you recommend just lfe and not lfe+main? Sorry just learning this. Is it not better to let some of the bass from the speaker transfer to the subs since they can handle it better?
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post #1557 of 1605 Old 09-20-2019, 07:42 AM
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why do you recommend just lfe and not lfe+main? Sorry just learning this. Is it not better to let some of the bass from the speaker transfer to the subs since they can handle it better?
The crossover on any speaker is not a brick wall, my towers go down to around 35-40Hz. And still use a crossover point of 80Hz, since they play better during loud and very low frequencies recording. Just let what your Marty subs do best, handling all the low frequencies for the bass. And your mains the upper ones.


Darth

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why do you recommend just lfe and not lfe+main? Sorry just learning this. Is it not better to let some of the bass from the speaker transfer to the subs since they can handle it better?

The crossover on any speaker is not a brick wall, my towers go down to around 35-40Hz. And still use a crossover point of 80Hz, since they play better during loud and very low frequencies recording. Just let what your Marty subs do best, handling all the low frequencies. And your mains the upper ones.


Darth
I will experiment with it and see what sounds best
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why do you recommend just lfe and not lfe+main? Sorry just learning this. Is it not better to let some of the bass from the speaker transfer to the subs since they can handle it better?
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I will experiment with it and see what sounds best

Hi,

You can certainly experiment and just go with your preference, but the odds of LFE+Main actually improving your sound quality are very small. LFE+Main allows both the speakers and the subwoofers to play some of the same bass content, which is exactly what the crossovers from the speakers to the subs were designed to prevent.

If I were you, I would reread Section III of the Guide. There is way too much information in the Guide to absorb at a single sitting, and LFE+Main is a good example of that. What LFE+Main does, and why it is generally inadvisable to use that particular setting, are explained in some detail in Section III-D.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1560 of 1605 Old 09-20-2019, 08:58 AM
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why do you recommend just lfe and not lfe+main? Sorry just learning this. Is it not better to let some of the bass from the speaker transfer to the subs since they can handle it better?
LFE+Main does nothing when your front speakers are set to Small.

If you have your mains set to Large, LFE+Main will send frequencies below the crossover to both the mains and the subs. This is usually not recommended.


EDIT: Mike beat me to it!
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Last edited by Alan P; 09-20-2019 at 09:14 AM.
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