Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences - Page 57 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1681 of 1710 Old 01-04-2020, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I don't always announce Guide Edits, unless they are fairly substantive in nature. But, I have made several Guide edits lately that I think qualify. (Clearly too much time on my hands during the holidays! )

First, I added more detail to the Cliff Notes. This was in response to some specific questions.

Second, I added quite a bit of new information to Section V. Section V deals primarily with Audyssey, and discusses DynamicEQ and Dynamic volume in some detail. But now, it also includes a subsection on the use of the tone controls, which typically affect only the front speakers, and which are applicable to non-Audyssey AVR's.

Third, Section V now also includes a discussion of the Harmon Curve, and of house curves in general. There has been a lot of discussion on the Audyssey thread lately about what exactly is the Harman Curve, and how do we create house curves? So, I thought it was time to add something about that to the Guide.

Here is a direct link to Section V:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...erences.html#V

I hope that these new additions are helpful!

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike,

Love your new cliff notes
A very well condensate mini version of your Guide, very well done and informative information's.


Darth
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post #1682 of 1710 Old 01-04-2020, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Hiya Mike again! Success on my side to read your amendments to the guide and now with regards to "Tone controls" and the "Harman curve" section please allow me some comments on the subjects.

1. I do not see detailed reference to how human ears work with regards to changing of Master Volume. This IMHO is a very important key factor when it comes to understanding the phenomenon behind.

2. The description of a room being "bright" may not ring the bell for most of us. Even though there is a mention of how it might affect overall SQ (Sound Quality), some may not have an even clue on what the real meaning is.

3. Most importantly the use of "Tone controls" and especially the so called "Harman Curve" is something I will always have an objection against its use and here is my reasoning: Firstly, any of these fixed settings will work only at one MV setting only!! Secondly, any deviation from a flat response (let's call it a sloppy curve) will always bring about an additional problem called delay vs. frequency. Without going into details, this means phase issues are going to be introduced by the amplifier affecting the overall imaging of the program material. Some may notice it by ear, some may not. But hey, aren't we striving to set up our systems as good as it can be?

4. Let's use "dB" instead of "db". Why not, eh?

Thank you Mike for your utmost efforts for complying such a nice and educational Guide.
While I agree the proper way is "dB", and use to be corrected on that one. And made a habit of using "dB' instead of "db".
We can all agree, that everyone understand it is for Decibel. No matter if someone use "dB" or "db"


Darth

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post #1683 of 1710 Old 01-04-2020, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
3. Most importantly the use of "Tone controls" and especially the so called "Harman Curve" is something I will always have an objection against its use and here is my reasoning: Firstly, any of these fixed settings will work only at one MV setting only!! Secondly, any deviation from a flat response (let's call it a sloppy curve) will always bring about an additional problem called delay vs. frequency. Without going into details, this means phase issues are going to be introduced by the amplifier affecting the overall imaging of the program material. Some may notice it by ear, some may not. But hey, aren't we striving to set up our systems as good as it can be?
IDK...the "Harmon Curve" sounds pretty damn good to me. Then again, so does Audyssey w/ DEQ turned on
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post #1684 of 1710 Old 01-05-2020, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
While I agree the proper way is "dB", and use to be corrected on that one. And made a habit of using "dB' instead of "db".
We can all agree, that everyone understand it is for Decibel. No matter if someone use "dB" or "db"


Darth

It's actually "deciBel", i.e. onetenth of a Bel.
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post #1685 of 1710 Old 01-05-2020, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
It's actually "deciBel", i.e. onetenth of a Bel.
Very good point! Hence, 10 dB (where the perception of loudness doubles) being 1 Bel.

(I'm all for using dB correctly where possible)
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post #1686 of 1710 Old 01-05-2020, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Very good point! Hence, 10 dB (where the perception of loudness doubles) being 1 Bel.

(I'm all for using dB correctly where possible)
Well, just show that you are never too old. To learn new stuff

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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
It's actually "deciBel", i.e. onetenth of a Bel.
Thanks for adding, the example
This add for my constant learning of the English language, since I do mind to be corrected for improving my writing skill.


Darth
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This might be slightly off topic. Curious to see if anyone has the Philadelphia 4k UHD and has played the intro music. I'm testing this release with Dynamic EQ and while I normally boost my subwoofer trim +3 dB after Audyssey calibration and everything is pretty tight, even with 0 boost the bass just resonates. The peak seems to be at about 55 Hz. Is this something that could be addressed by a custom house curve or acoustic treatments? or can the issue be the source?

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post #1688 of 1710 Old 01-07-2020, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thepiecesfit View Post
This might be slightly off topic. Curious to see if anyone has the Philadelphia 4k UHD and has played the intro music. I'm testing this release with Dynamic EQ and while I normally boost my subwoofer trim +3 dB after Audyssey calibration and everything is pretty tight, even with 0 boost the bass just resonates. The peak seems to be at about 55 Hz. Is this something that could be addressed by a custom house curve or acoustic treatments? or can the issue be the source?

Hi,

I don't know if there is quite enough information to make all the pieces fit. Sorry, couldn't resist!

I had a similar situation in my room, at one time, where a built-in cabinet was resonating sympathetically, at about 60 or 70Hz, from a speaker which was corner-loaded with respect to that cabinet. That very capable speaker was playing full-range for music. The resonance was a very unpleasant sound, which could occur pretty unpredictably.

I experimented with room treatments behind that speaker until I was convinced that a deep corner trap (with a cutaway to lower the absorption frequency) would work. I tried it, and the corner trap did just enough to allow Audyssey XT-32 to polish-off the resonance. I do need to use XT-32, even with the corner trap, or I can still hear a slight resonance at times.

If this is the only time that resonance has been noticeable, I might just disable DEQ for that particular score. It's possible that there is some clipping, or something along that line, occurring in the introduction. And, if the problem isn't repeating itself, then you just need to be alert to the issue when you play that introduction.

You could certainly try addressing the resonance at its source. That is essentially what I did when I put a thick, corner-shaped bass trap between the speaker and the cabinet. But, it is very hard to affect frequencies under about 70hz, with an acoustic treatment, so I'm not sure how well that will work if the resonance is <60Hz.

I also can't see a customized house curve being helpful in this case. The frequency range from about 55Hz to 70Hz seems to be especially helpful for the phenomenon known as chest punch. I really don't think that reducing the volume in that portion of the frequency range would be a great solution, unless you were experiencing unpleasant resonances on a regular basis.

I would start by knocking-off DEQ for that score, or using an RLO setting to reduce the effect. Let us know if that doesn't work, or if the problem expands to include other program material.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1689 of 1710 Old 01-07-2020, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I don't know if there is quite enough information to make all the pieces fit. Sorry, couldn't resist!

I had a similar situation in my room, at one time, where a built-in cabinet was resonating sympathetically, at about 60 or 70Hz, from a speaker which was corner-loaded with respect to that cabinet. That very capable speaker was playing full-range for music. The resonance was a very unpleasant sound, which could occur pretty unpredictably.

I experimented with room treatments behind that speaker until I was convinced that a deep corner trap (with a cutaway to lower the absorption frequency) would work. I tried it, and the corner trap did just enough to allow Audyssey XT-32 to polish-off the resonance. I do need to use XT-32, even with the corner trap, or I can still hear a slight resonance at times.

If this is the only time that resonance has been noticeable, I might just disable DEQ for that particular score. It's possible that there is some clipping, or something along that line, occurring in the introduction. And, if the problem isn't repeating itself, then you just need to be alert to the issue when you play that introduction.

You could certainly try addressing the resonance at its source. That is essentially what I did when I put a thick, corner-shaped bass trap between the speaker and the cabinet. But, it is very hard to affect frequencies under about 70hz, with an acoustic treatment, so I'm not sure how well that will work if the resonance is <60Hz.

I also can't see a customized house curve being helpful in this case. The frequency range from about 55Hz to 70Hz seems to be especially helpful for the phenomenon known as chest punch. I really don't think that reducing the volume in that portion of the frequency range would be a great solution, unless you were experiencing unpleasant resonances on a regular basis.

I would start by knocking-off DEQ for that score, or using an RLO setting to reduce the effect. Let us know if that doesn't work, or if the problem expands to include other program material.

Regards,
Mike
Thank you it does appear significantly reduced with DEQ Off and RLO above 0. Also the problem indeed expands to other things such as the cello from the Joker Soundtrack, the bass tends to linger for very long. Before coming to conclusions after just utilizing a phone app think I'm going to pick up a UMIK-1 and use REW to make some measurments. I will report back once I can make some meaningful changes whether through treatment, EQ or even subwoofer settings.

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post #1690 of 1710 Old 01-07-2020, 06:54 PM
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Should we run audyssey after configuring the cascading crossovers?

1) run audyssey
2) increase sub output to where we like it
3) lower sub lpf to where it's playing less or none of the localized frequencies
4) run audyssey, which in theory would increase bass in main channels to make up for the sub not going up as high, restoring any lost midbass from lowering sub's lpf.

This makes sense to me, and was recommended by Bill fitzmaurice in some older threads. It's not recommended in this guide. The question is does audyssey boost bass in mains if it senses the sub not going up past 80hz.

I run a nearfield sub and cascading crossovers is mandatory if I want to boost the sub. Which of course I do lol.
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post #1691 of 1710 Old 01-07-2020, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mdameron View Post
Should we run audyssey after configuring the cascading crossovers?

1) run audyssey
2) increase sub output to where we like it
3) lower sub lpf to where it's playing less or none of the localized frequencies
4) run audyssey, which in theory would increase bass in main channels to make up for the sub not going up as high, restoring any lost midbass from lowering sub's lpf.

This makes sense to me, and was recommended by Bill fitzmaurice in some older threads. It's not recommended in this guide. The question is does audyssey boost bass in mains if it senses the sub not going up past 80hz.

I run a nearfield sub and cascading crossovers is mandatory if I want to boost the sub. Which of course I do lol.
No!!!

Rerunning Audyssey after, would only result. That it would try again to make a flat frequencies curve.

First run Audyssey with the sub/s at the highest frequency, normally around 120Hz. With the LFE from your AVR/AVP set to 120Hz (usually default). And DEQ set to Off.
Then try DEQ On, and Off to see your preference. Mine is set to Off, since I do not like the way it increase the lower frequencies at sound level below reference. Then adjust the bass from your AVR/AVP if you want more bass.

Now that your are all done, to find what your prefer sound wise. It is the time to try the cascading crossovers method, to see if it improve your enjoyment of the sound from your sub/s or not.

The only things to do for that. Is changing the LFE to 80 or 90Hz on your AVR/AVP, and changing to the same frequency cut off level on your sub/s.
Cascading the Crossover, will not affect your calibration. And only 5-10 minutes to do and the same amount of time, to reverse if you do not like the results.


Darth

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post #1692 of 1710 Old 01-07-2020, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdameron View Post
Should we run audyssey after configuring the cascading crossovers?

1) run audyssey
2) increase sub output to where we like it
3) lower sub lpf to where it's playing less or none of the localized frequencies
4) run audyssey, which in theory would increase bass in main channels to make up for the sub not going up as high, restoring any lost midbass from lowering sub's lpf.


This makes sense to me, and was recommended by Bill fitzmaurice in some older threads. It's not recommended in this guide. The question is does audyssey boost bass in mains if it senses the sub not going up past 80hz.

I run a nearfield sub and cascading crossovers is mandatory if I want to boost the sub. Which of course I do lol.
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
No!!!

Rerunning Audyssey after, would only result. That it would try again to make a flat frequencies curve.

First run Audyssey with the sub/s at the highest frequency, normally around 120Hz. With the LFE from your AVR/AVP set to 120Hz (usually default). And DEQ set to Off.
Then try DEQ On, and Off to see your preference. Mine is set to Off, since I do not like the way it increase the lower frequencies at sound level below reference. Then adjust the bass from your AVR/AVP if you want more bass.

Now that your are all done, to find what your prefer sound wise. It is the time to try the cascading crossovers method, to see if it improve your enjoyment of the sound from your sub/s or not.
The only things to do for that is changing the LFE to 80 or 90Hz on your AVR/AVP, and changing to the same frequency cut off level on your sub/s.
Cascading the Crossover, will not affect your calibration. And only 5-10 minutes to do and the same amount of time, to reverse if you do not like the results.

Darth

Darth just gave you an absolutely perfect explanation! You want Audyssey to EQ your full frequency response, and to calibrate your HT system, first. Afterwards, you can tweak your settings in a number of different ways. Using DEQ is one of those tweaks. Audyssey Reference versus Audyssey Flat is another. Using the tone controls and independent subwoofer boosts, instead of DEQ, is another tweak. Cascading Crossovers are another.

And, there are still others, beyond the ones I have listed, such as utilizing the Audyssey app to tweak your frequency response, or using a miniDSP to do the same thing. A number of these things can be used in conjunction with each other. It's just a matter of figuring out what combination of settings gives you the sound qualities you prefer.

But you should definitely implement any tweaks, including Cascading Crossovers, after running Audyssey.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I decided to edit this to add a little more clarity and emphasis. First, when you run an Audyssey calibration, it will always adjust your subwoofer trim levels to correspond to the test tone volume of 75db. After an Audyssey calibration, all channels, including the subwoofer(s) will be playing at the same volume level. So, 1. and 2., taken in conjunction, won't work. We have to make any subwoofer volume adjustments we want to make, after running Audyssey.

Second, Audyssey EQ's every channel independently. There is no mechanism for Audyssey to EQ the front channels differently, based on what the subwoofer is doing. The crossovers that our AVR sets, based on the Audyssey measurements, are intended to provide some general guidance regarding the capabilities of our speakers, but that's it. So, numbers 3. and 4. also won't work in the way you are suggesting.

There have always been a lot of misconceptions about how systems of automated room EQ actually work, including from some people who should probably have known better. The Guide, and this discussion thread, may help a little with that.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

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Hi, when I have a sub on the front that is front fire, must I use also front fire on the back or is down fire also fine ?
Must they be at the same 0 degree phase, or one at 0 and the other at 180 degree ?

Thank you !
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post #1694 of 1710 Old 01-09-2020, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
There have always been a lot of misconceptions about how systems of automated room EQ actually work, including from some people who should probably have known better. The Guide, and this discussion thread, may help a little with that.
Mike,

Did you really need to publicly toss "ME" under the Audyssey Train ?

Ohhhh the indignity of it all!
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Hi, when I have a sub on the front that is front fire, must I use also front fire on the back or is down fire also fine ?
Must they be at the same 0 degree phase, or one at 0 and the other at 180 degree ?

Thank you !
While it is always best to use the same model of sub when adding multiples, if the subs are similar in capability, the orientation will not matter.

If you have an AVR with room correction that is able to set separate distances for dual subs (e.g. Audyssey XT32), both subs should be left at "0". If you do not, you will typically get the best response by setting the closer sub to "180", but experimentation and actually measuring the response would be highly encouraged.
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post #1696 of 1710 Old 01-09-2020, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike,

Did you really need to publicly toss "ME" under the Audyssey Train ?

Ohhhh the indignity of it all!

You, Adam? Never ever!
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Mike,

Did you really need to publicly toss "ME" under the Audyssey Train ?

Ohhhh the indignity of it all!
I think all that praise we've been giving him might be going to his head!


Kidding of course...

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Hi Mike,

Love your new cliff notes
A very well condensate mini version of your Guide, very well done and informative information's.


Darth
Thanks for the guide. It really answered the remaining subwoofer question I had.
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post #1699 of 1710 Old 01-10-2020, 07:22 AM
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Hi Mike,

Just to let you know, reference to this Cliff Note;

"10. After running Audyssey, it may be desirable to add most of your subwoofer volume increase with your subwoofer gain control, while not letting your AVR sub trim go above about -5. Typically, it is a good idea to raise the gain on the subwoofer high enough to achieve a trim level of about -10 or-11 during the initial level-matching process. After running Audyssey, we can raise the AVR trim to about -5, and continue to increase the subwoofer gain if we want even more bass than that. Section II explains the best ways to use the subwoofer gain in some detail, and explains why it is generally advisable to keep AVR subwoofer trim levels well in negative numbers."

I end up with -9dB on one sub, and -9.5dB for the second sub after my calibration. On my new FV18's and very happy with this result, since the gain volume are not the easiest to use for perfection Just thought to let you know, how it went. Now time to do some listening over time, and decide what boost level I prefer from my AVP.

Just general information's to other, who read this Guide. When matching the sub levels on each sub's, I used 77dB instead of the 75dB recommended by Audyssey.


Darth

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post #1700 of 1710 Old 01-12-2020, 09:41 AM
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On the subject of L/R and Sub phase alignment at the crossover and the sub distance tweak, I wondering if there are known and predictable speaker/sub(s)/room factors that contribute to better or worse phase alignment at the crossover (larger or smaller dip at the crossover).

I’ve read the following, and the different speaker models tested certainly show differences in magnitude of the dip at the crossover, with the sealed models having a minimal dip.
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/phase1.html

So, are ported vs. sealed for L/R and the L/R port tuning frequency vs. L/R/Sub(s) crossover frequency perhaps some critical factors for predicting whether there will be a large dip at the crossover?

For example (with Audyssey distances set), with ported L/R speakers, if the crossover is set to a frequency that corresponds to a lot of L/R port output, would the L/R port output be out of phase with the sub(s) output, causing a significant dip in the combined L/R/Sub output in the crossover region?

And, with the same ported L/R speakers, if the crossover were set to a higher frequency, where L/R port output is less, would the combined L/R/Sub(s) output have less of a dip (or maybe no dip) in the crossover region?

I'm sure it is more complicated than this, but just trying to get some fundamental understanding on this topic.

Thanks.

-

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post #1701 of 1710 Old 01-12-2020, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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On the subject of L/R and Sub phase alignment at the crossover and the sub distance tweak, I wondering if there are known and predictable speaker/sub(s)/room factors that contribute to better or worse phase alignment at the crossover (larger or smaller dip at the crossover).

I’ve read the following, and the different speaker models tested certainly show differences in magnitude of the dip at the crossover, with the sealed models having a minimal dip.
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/phase1.html

So, are ported vs. sealed for L/R and the L/R port tuning frequency vs. L/R/Sub(s) crossover frequency perhaps some critical factors for predicting whether there will be a large dip at the crossover?

For example (with Audyssey distances set), with ported L/R speakers, if the crossover is set to a frequency that corresponds to a lot of L/R port output, would the L/R port output be out of phase with the sub(s) output, causing a significant dip in the combined L/R/Sub output in the crossover region?

And, with the same ported L/R speakers, if the crossover were set to a higher frequency, where L/R port output is less, would the combined L/R/Sub(s) output have less of a dip (or maybe no dip) in the crossover region?

I'm sure it is more complicated than this, but just trying to get some fundamental understanding on this topic.

Thanks.

-

Hi Adam,

This is pretty deep water for me, but I will try to give you a response. I read what Brian wrote, and it makes sense that ported front speakers could exhibit more cancellation, at a crossover to a sub, than might be the case if they were sealed speakers. But, as you suggested, it is more complicated than that. First, room modes can influence the frequency response in a way that confounds our expectations. We don't always get cancellation where we might expect to have it, and we sometimes do get it where we wouldn't have predicted it.

Second, in an audio system that emphasizes music, we will typically be measuring the frequency response of the front speakers, in combination with the subwoofer(s). But, in a system that emphasizes movies, we will typically use the center channel for that measurement, and any phase adjustment will be based on that speaker/sub combination. So, that becomes another variable to consider.

Then, there is the fact that if we have multiple subwoofers (especially on opposing walls, but sometimes even if they are not) we may experience cancellation between, or among, the subwoofers themselves. In that case, we may actually want to make phase (or distance) adjustments in order to move the area of cancellation up into a frequency played by the front speakers, or by the center channel, so that the other speakers can compensate for the cancellation between subwoofers. Confused yet? I certainly am!

I think that we can only determine for sure whether we have cancellation by measuring our frequency response. The good news is that if the area of cancellation is relatively narrow, the overall effect on our audio will be inaudible, as our brains will compensate for the missing information. Complex sounds will also typically contain both fundamentals and harmonics of specific frequencies, which will help to fill-in missing frequencies in a way that we can't detect.

I probably wouldn't hesitate to select either ported front speakers, or a ported center channel, solely on the basis of potential cancellation, and I probably wouldn't worry too much about predicting potential cancellation, with the subwoofer(s), solely on that basis.

As for whether a higher crossover might reduce cancellation, I think someone would just have to experiment to find out. It very well might, but it would probably depend on how close the original crossover were to the speakers' port tune. And, remember that boundary gain and room modes would influence the speakers' actual roll-off. So, the specified port tune might not precisely correspond to the in-room response.

It's an interesting analysis, and one that might have real-world consequences in a specific situation. But, there are so many other variables involved that I think we would still need to treat the issue of potential cancellation on a case-by-case basis. I don't know if this was exactly what you were looking for, but it's about the best I can do with this complicated subject.

Regards,
Mike

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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 01-12-2020 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Clarity
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Mike, thanks for the thoughtful reply above.

Yeah, there are many factors to consider and probably bigger fish to fry first, I would think.

But, assuming one has a decently flat sub response (verified with measurements), seems like investigating and potentially optimizing L/R/Sub(s) phase at the crossover (with music as the priority) could be the next thing to look at.

-
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Hi Mike @mthomas47 and Ray @imureh

I have decide to post here, my response from your previous post on the Rythmik thread. Since that one derail, on Mike for no reason.

I will use JW2, the tunnel scene to give my first real impression. And my preference of sound, since I know this scene quit well and not a new one.
It will be done this way, all using Hi damping;
-First, 18Hz setting flat from calibration.
-Then increase the level from my AVP, to +1dB.
-Then try +2 and +3dB and take notes of my preference. Throughout the whole process.

After this, repeat the whole process using 14Hz on the FV18. So a total of 8 small listening sessions.
And want to Thank you both, for trying to help.


Darth

Last edited by darthray; 01-13-2020 at 08:38 PM.
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post #1704 of 1710 Old 01-13-2020, 09:05 PM
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Hi Mike @mthomas47 and Ray @imureh

I have decide to post here, my response from your previous post on the Rythmik thread. Since that one derail, on Mike for no reason.

I will use JW2, the tunnel scene to give my first real impression. And my preference of sound, since I know this scene quit well and not a new one.
It will be done this way, all using Hi damping;
-First, 18Hz setting flat from calibration.
-Then increase the level from my AVP, to +1dB.
-Then try +2 and +3dB and take notes of my preference. Throughout the whole process.

After this, repeat the whole process using 14Hz on the FV18. So a total of 8 small listening sessions.
And want to Thank you both, for trying to help.


Darth
Hi Darth, I responded on the Rythmik thread. Yeah this stuff happens from time to time. We all mean good in the end.

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post #1705 of 1710 Old 01-13-2020, 09:10 PM
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Hi Darth, I responded on the Rythmik thread. Yeah this stuff happens from time to time. We all mean good in the end.

Did saw that post, and know what you mean!!!


Darth
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post #1706 of 1710 Old 01-16-2020, 10:27 AM
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HI all,
I have a question for @mthomas47 or anyone who can help me on this. I'm trying to set up cascading crossover but I have a Yamaha avr so LFE is locked to 120Hz. But I also have a minidsp to control the sub. I can set the sub crossover but which kind of filter type should I select? BW 48db/oct?
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post #1707 of 1710 Old 01-16-2020, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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HI all,
I have a question for @mthomas47 or anyone who can help me on this. I'm trying to set up cascading crossover but I have a Yamaha avr so LFE is locked to 120Hz. But I also have a minidsp to control the sub. I can set the sub crossover but which kind of filter type should I select? BW 48db/oct?

Hi,

I don't see any harm in implementing the BW 48dB/octave LPF. Ultimately, I would be listening to the results, and trusting what I hear (even more than measurements), to determine my final settings. So, you could always experiment with a different slope if there were something about that one you didn't like.

Let us know what you think, after you have tried cascading crossovers.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #1708 of 1710 Old 01-16-2020, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MrRobotoPlus View Post
HI all,
I have a question for @mthomas47 or anyone who can help me on this. I'm trying to set up cascading crossover but I have a Yamaha avr so LFE is locked to 120Hz. But I also have a minidsp to control the sub. I can set the sub crossover but which kind of filter type should I select? BW 48db/oct?
Just to add to Mike's great advice, I would probably start with the LR 12dB/octave crossover since that would more closely resemble the crossovers built into subwoofer amps and AVRs. IMO, 48dB/octave is pretty steep...add that to the 12dB/octave in your AVR and you've got 60dB/octave (total). I think the "standard" 24dB/octave (total) cascading crossover is more than sufficient for most.

That being said, if you want to experiment with steeper slopes, go for it! Please report back on how the different slopes sound to you.
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post #1709 of 1710 Old 01-16-2020, 02:45 PM
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Hi,

I don't see any harm in implementing the BW 48dB/octave LPF. Ultimately, I would be listening to the results, and trusting what I hear (even more than measurements), to determine my final settings. So, you could always experiment with a different slope if there were something about that one you didn't like.

Let us know what you think, after you have tried cascading crossovers.

Regards,
Mike
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Just to add to Mike's great advice, I would probably start with the LR 12dB/octave crossover since that would more closely resemble the crossovers built into subwoofer amps and AVRs. IMO, 48dB/octave is pretty steep...add that to the 12dB/octave in your AVR and you've got 60dB/octave (total). I think the "standard" 24dB/octave (total) cascading crossover is more than sufficient for most.

That being said, if you want to experiment with steeper slopes, go for it! Please report back on how the different slopes sound to you.
Thank you guys, I went for BW 24db/octave. Can't hear differences with 48 and with LR does lower too much under 100Hz (my crossover).

Again, thank you all for the great advises!

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post #1710 of 1710 Old Yesterday, 06:29 PM
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Thank you guys, I went for BW 24db/octave. Can't hear differences with 48 and with LR does lower too much under 100Hz (my crossover).

Again, thank you all for the great advises!

I also see that you have given me a "Like", on a much earlier post of mine. Good on you for reading throughout the whole Thread of this Guide, for looking for answers for your situation. Soon you will a regular around here


Darth
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