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post #31 of 42 Old 03-03-2018, 10:32 AM
 
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Met up with Kevin at HSU Research for demo around 10:30am. He started off by showing me the subwoofers while explaining the differences and going over my theater room details. Right off the bat he told me the VTF-3 MK5 should work great with my current equipment and plans.

We then proceeded to the demo room where I sat is a single theater chair in back of room about 5ft from back wall. To my right (near field) was the 15H MK2, and directly behind me (near field was the VTF-3 MK5). Both were EQ'd for a relatively flat response in room and with the same settings such as 1 port open for low end extension, Q setting of. 7, crossed over at 80hz.

He played 3 audio tracks, flipping back and forth between the 2 subs, as well as several parts of 3 movies (transformers, interstellar, and Dunkirk). In all situations, I was unable to tell any audible differences between the 2 subwoofers, and they were being pushed hard, louder than anything my setup is even capable of. The biggest difference, showing importance of location, was the punch I felt in my back from the VTF-3 MK5 which was placed directly behind me. It was absolutely breathtaking, making me feel like I was in the movie. I did not feel this at all with the 15H MK2 placed directly to the right of me.

All in all, I was very impressed and left with the VTF-3 MK5. It was smaller, sounded identical and more than capable for anything I could ever imagine throwing at it.

Any questions in particular, just ask. I'm not the best at reviews and like stated, I'm no audiophile.

Dave
Wow so the more expensive 15h mk2 did not sound lower or better didn't expect that ..what did Kevin suggest it had to say between the 2 what setting was ur vtf at one port open was the 3 inch port open or was the 4 inch port open ..what eq setting did he have it at between eq 1-5 and what phase ...was the subwoofer loud enough ..was it like that wow in ur skin give u tingles type of feeling
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post #32 of 42 Old 03-03-2018, 10:44 AM
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Yes but it goes lower, its heavier, build better.. Will be able to go lower than 16 while the vtf3 mk5 runs out of steam around 18.. dont you think its worth paying extra for a little more headroom

It may be worth it to you to pay an extra $137 (or $177 when not on sale) but it wasn?t to me. Same driver, same amp, 16hz vs 17 hz, a little more output, and weighs about 25-30 more pounds..?


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That's definitely down playing the advantages of the VTF-15H mk2.

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post #33 of 42 Old 03-03-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by FaintReality View Post
Met up with Kevin at HSU Research for demo around 10:30am. He started off by showing me the subwoofers while explaining the differences and going over my theater room details. Right off the bat he told me the VTF-3 MK5 should work great with my current equipment and plans.

We then proceeded to the demo room where I sat is a single theater chair in back of room about 5ft from back wall. To my right (near field) was the 15H MK2, and directly behind me (near field was the VTF-3 MK5). Both were EQ'd for a relatively flat response in room and with the same settings such as 1 port open for low end extension, Q setting of. 7, crossed over at 80hz.

He played 3 audio tracks, flipping back and forth between the 2 subs, as well as several parts of 3 movies (transformers, interstellar, and Dunkirk). In all situations, I was unable to tell any audible differences between the 2 subwoofers, and they were being pushed hard, louder than anything my setup is even capable of. The biggest difference, showing importance of location, was the punch I felt in my back from the VTF-3 MK5 which was placed directly behind me. It was absolutely breathtaking, making me feel like I was in the movie. I did not feel this at all with the 15H MK2 placed directly to the right of me.

All in all, I was very impressed and left with the VTF-3 MK5. It was smaller, sounded identical and more than capable for anything I could ever imagine throwing at it.

Any questions in particular, just ask. I'm not the best at reviews and like stated, I'm no audiophile.

Dave
Wow so the more expensive 15h mk2 did not sound lower or better didn't expect that ..what did Kevin suggest it had to say between the 2 what setting was ur vtf at one port open was the 3 inch port open or was the 4 inch port open ..what eq setting did he have it at between eq 1-5 and what phase ...was the subwoofer loud enough ..was it like that wow in ur skin give u tingles type of feeling
He said the room in general will play a bigger role due to room gain and what not. I could not hear, the difference, but definitely felt the difference with the VTF3 MK5 being right behind me. At that low of a frequency, I personally think room gain will play a bigger role, with the mk2 shinning in perhaps a larger room or a room with voids and nulls.

Both were 1 port open, the 4" with phase at 0. Says to use time alignment in the processor/amp.

Both subs were very loud, louder than i have ever listened to. At one point I had asked and he said it was over 100db, but don't know how loud exactly. My house would have been rattling and neighbors complaining for sure. At one point in Dunkirk I asked him to crank the bass just to see how loud and deep they would play without mechanical noise and it was intense. All other demos were done with a blended sound stage, so not overwhelming overpowering the remaining speakers.

Once again, I am no audiophile, just your standard guy with a taste for high end music. I have also been a DIY car audio guy, using equipment such as zapco, image dynamics, stereo integrity, hipherion, seas, etc. I also run all drivers in an active setup using processors such as dsp mini and rew to tune.

So I have an idea on how staging and music should sound, but my ears can not pick out little imperfections that an audiophile would notice.

I personally think the 2 subwoofers should be chose based on your personal theater, but it's hard to do that unless both are physically in room and able to test. For the price difference and with no concern for size, I would probably choose the MK2 to be safe if unable to demo.
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post #34 of 42 Old 03-03-2018, 11:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by FaintReality View Post
Met up with Kevin at HSU Research for demo around 10:30am. He started off by showing me the subwoofers while explaining the differences and going over my theater room details. Right off the bat he told me the VTF-3 MK5 should work great with my current equipment and plans.

We then proceeded to the demo room where I sat is a single theater chair in back of room about 5ft from back wall. To my right (near field) was the 15H MK2, and directly behind me (near field was the VTF-3 MK5). Both were EQ'd for a relatively flat response in room and with the same settings such as 1 port open for low end extension, Q setting of. 7, crossed over at 80hz.

He played 3 audio tracks, flipping back and forth between the 2 subs, as well as several parts of 3 movies (transformers, interstellar, and Dunkirk). In all situations, I was unable to tell any audible differences between the 2 subwoofers, and they were being pushed hard, louder than anything my setup is even capable of. The biggest difference, showing importance of location, was the punch I felt in my back from the VTF-3 MK5 which was placed directly behind me. It was absolutely breathtaking, making me feel like I was in the movie. I did not feel this at all with the 15H MK2 placed directly to the right of me.

All in all, I was very impressed and left with the VTF-3 MK5. It was smaller, sounded identical and more than capable for anything I could ever imagine throwing at it.

Any questions in particular, just ask. I'm not the best at reviews and like stated, I'm no audiophile.

Dave
Wow so the more expensive 15h mk2 did not sound lower or better didn't expect that ..what did Kevin suggest it had to say between the 2 what setting was ur vtf at one port open was the 3 inch port open or was the 4 inch port open ..what eq setting did he have it at between eq 1-5 and what phase ...was the subwoofer loud enough ..was it like that wow in ur skin give u tingles type of feeling
He said the room in general will play a bigger role due to room gain and what not. I could not hear, the difference, but definitely felt the difference with the VTF3 MK5 being right behind me. At that low of a frequency, I personally think room gain will play a bigger role, with the mk2 shinning in perhaps a larger room or a room with voids and nulls.

Both were 1 port open, the 4" with phase at 0. Says to use time alignment in the processor/amp.

Both subs were very loud, louder than i have ever listened to. At one point I had asked and he said it was over 100db, but don't know how loud exactly. My house would have been rattling and neighbors complaining for sure. At one point in Dunkirk I asked him to crank the bass just to see how loud and deep they would play without mechanical noise and it was intense. All other demos were done with a blended sound stage, so not overwhelming overpowering the remaining speakers.

Once again, I am no audiophile, just your standard guy with a taste for high end music. I have also been a DIY car audio guy, using equipment such as zapco, image dynamics, stereo integrity, hipherion, seas, etc. I also run all drivers in an active setup using processors such as dsp mini and rew to tune.

So I have an idea on how staging and music should sound, but my ears can not pick out little imperfections that an audiophile would notice.

I personally think the 2 subwoofers should be chose based on your personal theater, but it's hard to do that unless both are physically in room and able to test. For the price difference and with no concern for size, I would probably choose the MK2 to be safe if unable to demo.
So both sound very similar yet u picked the vtf3 ...but ur saying for the price difference n if size wasn't a concern u would of chosen the mk2 ..seems u can't go wrong with both just seems why pay 150 bucks more for a sound that is so so similar n a sub that's way larger ..even though it says it can play a tad bit lower a littler louder n built stronger but looks like a tank
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post #35 of 42 Old 03-03-2018, 02:44 PM
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Met up with Kevin at HSU Research for demo around 10:30am. He started off by showing me the subwoofers while explaining the differences and going over my theater room details. Right off the bat he told me the VTF-3 MK5 should work great with my current equipment and plans.

We then proceeded to the demo room where I sat is a single theater chair in back of room about 5ft from back wall. To my right (near field) was the 15H MK2, and directly behind me (near field was the VTF-3 MK5). Both were EQ'd for a relatively flat response in room and with the same settings such as 1 port open for low end extension, Q setting of. 7, crossed over at 80hz.

He played 3 audio tracks, flipping back and forth between the 2 subs, as well as several parts of 3 movies (transformers, interstellar, and Dunkirk). In all situations, I was unable to tell any audible differences between the 2 subwoofers, and they were being pushed hard, louder than anything my setup is even capable of. The biggest difference, showing importance of location, was the punch I felt in my back from the VTF-3 MK5 which was placed directly behind me. It was absolutely breathtaking, making me feel like I was in the movie. I did not feel this at all with the 15H MK2 placed directly to the right of me.

All in all, I was very impressed and left with the VTF-3 MK5. It was smaller, sounded identical and more than capable for anything I could ever imagine throwing at it.

Any questions in particular, just ask. I'm not the best at reviews and like stated, I'm no audiophile.

Dave
Wow so the more expensive 15h mk2 did not sound lower or better didn't expect that ..what did Kevin suggest it had to say between the 2 what setting was ur vtf at one port open was the 3 inch port open or was the 4 inch port open ..what eq setting did he have it at between eq 1-5 and what phase ...was the subwoofer loud enough ..was it like that wow in ur skin give u tingles type of feeling
He said the room in general will play a bigger role due to room gain and what not. I could not hear, the difference, but definitely felt the difference with the VTF3 MK5 being right behind me. At that low of a frequency, I personally think room gain will play a bigger role, with the mk2 shinning in perhaps a larger room or a room with voids and nulls.

Both were 1 port open, the 4" with phase at 0. Says to use time alignment in the processor/amp.

Both subs were very loud, louder than i have ever listened to. At one point I had asked and he said it was over 100db, but don't know how loud exactly. My house would have been rattling and neighbors complaining for sure. At one point in Dunkirk I asked him to crank the bass just to see how loud and deep they would play without mechanical noise and it was intense. All other demos were done with a blended sound stage, so not overwhelming overpowering the remaining speakers.

Once again, I am no audiophile, just your standard guy with a taste for high end music. I have also been a DIY car audio guy, using equipment such as zapco, image dynamics, stereo integrity, hipherion, seas, etc. I also run all drivers in an active setup using processors such as dsp mini and rew to tune.

So I have an idea on how staging and music should sound, but my ears can not pick out little imperfections that an audiophile would notice.

I personally think the 2 subwoofers should be chose based on your personal theater, but it's hard to do that unless both are physically in room and able to test. For the price difference and with no concern for size, I would probably choose the MK2 to be safe if unable to demo.
So both sound very similar yet u picked the vtf3 ...but ur saying for the price difference n if size wasn't a concern u would of chosen the mk2 ..seems u can't go wrong with both just seems why pay 150 bucks more for a sound that is so so similar n a sub that's way larger ..even though it says it can play a tad bit lower a littler louder n built stronger but looks like a tank
If picking up, the difference was only like $60. But I do know there is a shipping difference for all those not local, making the price difference greater.

But yes, to me, the looks and size were more important that the slight increase capability in low end (Kevin stated they will sound identical down to ~25hz), so I went with the VTF3 MK5. I did not mind the price increase, and would have went with the other if it weren't so deep which would change up my location.

Like they say, buy the biggest you can afford. If you are good on looks and size, and can afford the extra 150 ish, play it safe and go that route. However, I can guarantee you will not be disappointed either way. And if you are, you will be disappointed with both.
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post #36 of 42 Old 03-03-2018, 05:20 PM
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All in all, I was very impressed and left with the VTF-3 MK5. It was smaller, sounded identical and more than capable for anything I could ever imagine throwing at it.

Any questions in particular, just ask. I'm not the best at reviews and like stated, I'm no audiophile.
@FaintReality , thanks for reporting back.

What are the dimensions of your room?

I've been thinking a lot about adding another sub to my setup. Movies often leave me wanting more with my ASW600, but any more adjustment makes it start to sound muddy. My room is 11.5'W x 15'L x 10'H.

I'm stuck b/w trying to be cost effective (adding another smaller sub) since the room isn't huge, vs replacement to significantly upgrade the sub (but can't really afford to shell out $850 for a sub right now).

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post #37 of 42 Old 03-03-2018, 05:29 PM
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All in all, I was very impressed and left with the VTF-3 MK5. It was smaller, sounded identical and more than capable for anything I could ever imagine throwing at it.

Any questions in particular, just ask. I'm not the best at reviews and like stated, I'm no audiophile.
@FaintReality , thanks for reporting back.

What are the dimensions of your room?

I've been thinking a lot about adding another sub to my setup. Movies often leave me wanting more with my ASW600, but any more adjustment makes it start to sound muddy. My room is 11.5'W x 15'L x 10'H.

I'm stuck b/w trying to be cost effective (adding another smaller sub) since the room isn't huge, vs replacement to significantly upgrade the sub (but can't really afford to shell out $850 for a sub right now).
My room is 13'9"W x 20'10"L x 8'H (~2235 cu ft) and I also upgraded from a 10" sealed B&W ASW600 which sounded great with music but could not handle movies at even remotely decent volume levels in my theater room.

Still messing with the new Sub as we speak and it sounds awesome. Highly recommend.
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post #38 of 42 Old 03-03-2018, 06:06 PM
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My room is 13'9"W x 20'10"L x 8'H (~2235 cu ft) and I also upgraded from a 10" sealed B&W ASW600 which sounded great with music but could not handle movies at even remotely decent volume levels in my theater room.

Still messing with the new Sub as we speak and it sounds awesome. Highly recommend.
Great, thanks. And it's very helpful to hear from someone who owned the same sub as me.

Wonder if they have a smaller version that would still hit hard in my space (~1750 cu ft). I will be limited in placement of the room due to furniture setup, but I have a little flexibility. Wonder if it would be bad to have it sitting right next to me, because I have a little bit of empty room there anyway (an end table at junction of two couches, but this is more "my" room, and I don't want an end table there, lol).

Did you happen to listen to anything else while you were there?

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My room is 13'9"W x 20'10"L x 8'H (~2235 cu ft) and I also upgraded from a 10" sealed B&W ASW600 which sounded great with music but could not handle movies at even remotely decent volume levels in my theater room.

Still messing with the new Sub as we speak and it sounds awesome. Highly recommend.
Great, thanks. And it's very helpful to hear from someone who owned the same sub as me. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Wonder if they have a smaller version that would still hit hard in my space (~1750 cu ft). I will be limited in placement of the room due to furniture setup, but I have a little flexibility. Wonder if it would be bad to have it sitting right next to me, because I have a little bit of empty room there anyway (an end table at junction of two couches, but this is more "my" room, and I don't want an end table there, lol).

Did you happen to listen to anything else while you were there?
They have the 12" versions of the same two subs discussed, but I did not demo them. He did state they were designed to play down very low as well, just not capable of the same SPL levels due to lack of cone area.

Sub location will be dependant on your room. I tried my sub directly behind me like it was in the demo room and I had no output, to the point where I was thinking something was wrong. I then placed it in upper corner by TV where the ASW600 was and the thing came alive. In the demo room he also had sub directly to the right of theater chair and it sounded great.

Place your current sub in your location of interest and see how your output is to give you an idea if it's a null area of the room.
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post #40 of 42 Old 03-03-2018, 06:59 PM
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They have the 12" versions of the same two subs discussed, but I did not demo them. He did state they were designed to play down very low as well, just not capable of the same SPL levels due to lack of cone area.
I went from focusing on a new receiver (to get ready for Atmos for Christmas or something, as well as to fix significant issues with ARC--b/c my receiver doesn't do HDR/DV either--that drive my wife nuts) to thinking about swapping out my sub, lol. I wasn't planning and wasn't budgeting for it, so this comment might sound a little flippant of the cost, though it's not. But if I'm going to upgrade my sub after 15 years, may as well fork over $200-300 more and get something that will be deeply satisfying rather than trying to go cheaper. I said size of room as an excuse, and if I truly wouldn't miss anything between the 12" and 15", no need to throw away money. But really, I bet it makes a big difference.

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Sub location will be dependant on your room. I tried my sub directly behind me like it was in the demo room and I had no output, to the point where I was thinking something was wrong. I then placed it in upper corner by TV where the ASW600 was and the thing came alive. In the demo room he also had sub directly to the right of theater chair and it sounded great.

Place your current sub in your location of interest and see how your output is to give you an idea if it's a null area of the room.
Certainly planning on this as soon as I get my connection set up in the back of the room, which would give me significantly more flexibility in trying out different areas.

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post #41 of 42 Old 06-23-2018, 07:37 PM
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I bet this got answered already. I just installed a 'new' VTF2 mk2, v nice, working perfectly, but its sensitivity --- gain structure --- is completely wack. It is unusable at level quarter up, forget half up; for best level balance w 'satellites' it is barely cracked on at all. RLC processor output is normal, driving normal consumer amp driving normal-sens sealed speakers. I can pad down the input to the Hsu but that seems idiotic to have to do, and a waste to boot. Any thoughts. Sat system is not hissy, which is what happens sometimes when sensitivity and gain structure are wack....

Thanks
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post #42 of 42 Old 06-29-2018, 03:38 PM
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If picking up, the difference was only like $60. But I do know there is a shipping difference for all those not local, making the price difference greater.

But yes, to me, the looks and size were more important that the slight increase capability in low end (Kevin stated they will sound identical down to ~25hz), so I went with the VTF3 MK5. I did not mind the price increase, and would have went with the other if it weren't so deep which would change up my location.

Like they say, buy the biggest you can afford. If you are good on looks and size, and can afford the extra 150 ish, play it safe and go that route. However, I can guarantee you will not be disappointed either way. And if you are, you will be disappointed with both.

Same story as FaintReality. Visited Kevin at the showroom yesterday, spent about 90 minutes with him. Same exact setup and test material, and FR's post sums up well my own takeaways. Walked out with 2 VTF3 MK5's for my 15x15x9 =~ 2,000 cu ft family room, which opens up on one wall to a 15x12x8 ~ 1,440 cu ft kitchen. I assumed about 3,500 cu ft as my requirement. Right away, after showing Kevin a quick iPhone video of the space, Kevin thought 1 sub was bare minimum, especially how open it is with windows all along the back. Initial diagnosis - 2 VTF3's will work great, 2 VTF15H's will bust out my new windows. In side-by-side testing, as FR noted there was almost no discernible difference between subs at the listening levels he selected. The placement of the VTF3 directly behind the chair surely helped it provide that chesty-tactile feedback, but in terms of how the Boston Audio CD Track 1 sounded at 16 Hz, both fluttered similarly. What I really learned from this experience is that the technical differences highlighted on all these threads are really more important at very high volumes, I mean very high. At medium-high listening, about as high as most people can take I guess, these subs pressurized the demo room quite equally.

As FR noted, what's also clear to me now is that the #1 factor to consider is simply the volume of space you need to fill. I'm guessing all the other technical factors combined are less important than this consideration. Since the VTF15H will output higher SPL, then logically it will fill a larger space more effectively than the VTF3. And if you are one of those who searches out source material that you can feel but not hear, the VTF15H will extend lower for sure and is the required choice (among HSU options). But for the reasons FR outlined, given that most source material is 20+ Hz and given that the drivers/amps are the same, and given the weight of the VTF3 is much more manageable, I went with the VTF3's. Actually, that's not quite the whole story. The final determining factor was subwoofer depth - I have to fit in a space 24" deep, couldn't make the VTF15H work without major mods so I lost out on that option. Otherwise for $200 more, and no space limitations, for sure I would have bought the VTF15H's just for the extra oomph if I ever needed it. BTW I'm replacing my venerable Paradigm Servo 15v2 with these VTF3's, wanted to try out ported solutions for improved bottom end wow factor.

Set up the 2 VTF3's yesterday with Yamaha RX-A3050 and ran YPAO. One sub is in a corner, other in the open. Per Kevin's instruction, ran cal with both at EQ1/left port open/0 degrees/10'oclock gain. The corner sub barfed - gain too high, pegged YPAO to -10 dB (lowest it goes). The other sub cooperated, but YPAO set it to -2 dB, which is above the -5 to -8 dB range I was told to look for. So I set Q's on both to 0.3 and re-ran YPAO, this time both came in at -7 dB and -8 dB. From there, I turned the non-corner sub Q up to 0.5, and left the gains as-is. Initial impression - pretty great. Place Track 1 of that Boston CD, and I learned I can't hear 16 Hz but I can sure as heck see it. My Samsung 65" was literally flexing on the wall, my gas fireplace chimney inside the wall was rattling like crazy, and something in the kitchen was dancing around too. This was at Yamaha volume of -10 dB, believe max volume is around + 10 dB so gives you an idea of how much harder I could push the subs but my ears wouldn't be able to take it. I played various source material - a DTS:X demo disc, some YouTube basshead stuff, some classic rock with mid-bass (Fleetwood Mac, Black Sabbath, Bad Company, etc.) and fell right in love. My space is completely filled with tight, full bass and I haven't even done the REW tuning yet.

After all the studying, spreadsheets of 20+ subs, videos, reviews, on and on, in the end I'm happy with two 15" subs from a great sub company. My other choice was the PSA V1811, an 18" ported sub with compact form factor. It begins shipping soon. I have enough space for those, so I'm sure I'll ruminate for the next year or two and maybe pull the upgrade trigger after I let the "what if??" sink in further!
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