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post #91 of 115 Old 03-06-2018, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by thephatp View Post
Thanks, Jack. I moved this out of the thread to stop distracting from the convo, but this is helpful and what I was looking for.
You are welcome. To clarify and expand one point, how far the port needs to be away from a wall depends on how big the port is and how much air is going to be pushed through it. But one needs less distance from a wall than most people seem to imagine; one can take a look at some Polk RTiA1 (or any of the discontinued small bookshelf speakers in the RTi series from Polk) and notice the port on the rear, which has over it a mounting bracket to hang the speaker on a wall. That would effectively put the port at about an inch from the wall, which is better than you might think, because the air can move up, down, or sideways once it leaves the port of the speaker. For a large port on a subwoofer, one might want 2 or 3 inches, or if it is a very, very large subwoofer, maybe a bit more. But still less than most people seem to guess is necessary. The air can move up, down, or sideways, in any of those directions, so it will be less restricted than it is at the point of the port, unless the port is very, very close to the wall.

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post #92 of 115 Old 03-06-2018, 10:17 AM
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post #93 of 115 Old 03-06-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad Sobolewski View Post
I came to this post feeling like I had made a decision between two options - dual SVS PB1000 vs single PB 2000. Staying within my budget I then started looking at the Hsu VTF13 and the HSu 15. Of course, the giant Hsu is on sale. But then... I remembered that I should not lose sight of the fact that I don’t want my children to damage the subwoofer(s).

Many a helpful post help clarify the design of the grill on the SVS models. The larger Hsu has open ports no matter what... so I began to look at the PSA 15V. One of the things that drew me to SVS in the first place was is that it’s in Ohio company, and I live in Ohio, and they have free shipping and a generous audition and return policy.

I can’t justify dual subwoofers at this point - maybe later. But I have come around on the get the best sub you can, within budget, and not regret it.

So, I’ll probably be timing a purchase to the completion of the theater/basement and going with the Single PSA 15v. Why? It is within budget. It is a great 15 inch sub. The port is in the rear and it is down firing making it much more child proof. The company is local and the shipping/return policy is great. It also matches with my modern decor.

Plus I can always add one later to go dual.

Thanks everybody. I’ll definitely post updates and thoughts once everything is done in the next few weeks.
So now you not only bought from a company in Ohio, but from one who builds their product in the USA as well. I personally think that matters more than quibbling over which sub might have a dB or two here or there.

If it helps, my first really good sub setup that I kept past the trial period was PSA dual XV15se....essentially the same sub as you are buying except you have a better amp than what mine had at the time so maybe you have better output and extension than what I had. But close nonetheless. The reason I'm telling you this is I had those subs dialed in really nice with a great frequency response. I have since moved on to DIY subs but my wife still thinks those were the best sounding setup we have had.
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post #94 of 115 Old 03-06-2018, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
So now you not only bought from a company in Ohio, but from one who builds their product in the USA as well. I personally think that matters more than quibbling over which sub might have a dB or two here or there.

If it helps, my first really good sub setup that I kept past the trial period was PSA dual XV15se....essentially the same sub as you are buying except you have a better amp than what mine had at the time so maybe you have better output and extension than what I had. But close nonetheless. The reason I'm telling you this is I had those subs dialed in really nice with a great frequency response. I have since moved on to DIY subs but my wife still thinks those were the best sounding setup we have had.
Cool - thanks again @bear123 . Maybe, just maybe my wife will care how it sounds!
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post #95 of 115 Old 03-06-2018, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad Sobolewski View Post
Cool - thanks again @bear123 . Maybe, just maybe my wife will care how it sounds!
My wife never cared. She was perfectly happy with the teacup sized speakers and 8" 'sub' from the HTiB I had. But now that she has heard reasonably good sound quality for some time....she has developed an ear for it and appreciates it. My AVR crapped out once and the sound came out of the TV....she called me at worked panicked and said she couldn't even watch TV
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post #96 of 115 Old 03-06-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
My wife never cared. She was perfectly happy with the teacup sized speakers and 8" 'sub' from the HTiB I had. But now that she has heard reasonably good sound quality for some time....she has developed an ear for it and appreciates it. My AVR crapped out once and the sound came out of the TV....she called me at worked panicked and said she couldn't even watch TV
My advice for getting your wife to like it, is to carefully select the location (keeping in mind not only how it sounds, but also how it looks in the room and how it affects room function), and carefully set it up, resisting any urge you may have to set it at a higher level than what the automatic setup says is correct (I am basing that on your comment in your first post about your wife's preferences). Then, for the first time your wife hears it, let her pick the movie. I did that with my first surround setup, which my wife was previously skeptical about us needing, and it worked quite well, as she really liked it much more than she thought she would.

And remember, if you blow the first impression, it will be very hard to overcome later on.

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post #97 of 115 Old 03-07-2018, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Bubba Blaster View Post
I was just in your shoes. I started with one PB-1000, then went to dual PB-1000s. I now have dual PB-2000s. Both models are excellent, with the 2000s being all the better. I recommend everyone budget for duals, whatever you do, unless you can get one big one now and another later - duals are just that much better for me and I think in general. I will never go back to one as the sound of duals has spoiled me...
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Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
PB-2000s easily over the SB-2000s given your listening habits. The PB-2000 is tuned low enough that the loss of output below tune isn't worth the little bit of extension gained by the SB-2000.

But I also say dual subs over a single sub. I would rather two lesser subs, than one larger ported sub (ex: two PB-1000s over a single PB-2000) due to room modes such as nulls that single subs suffer from.
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
If you are the primary listener and can maximize the single sub for the main listening position through placement flexibility, the PB2000 will dig deeper and would be the better choice. If you are concerned about even response over more seats, two subs are generally better.

Me, without knowing more, I would get the one better sub and maximize for the MLP, and consider adding another down the road if need be.
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
He did list a lot, but the basic question is whether you want to maximize the bass for one seat or if you want to try and spread out a better response over more seats. Me, personally, I like my Captain Kirk chair and don't care that much about whether young kids get more even bass response over the whole room. So my pick is still one better sub that digs deeper to 20Hz and below and maybe upgrade later. (I also recognize a strong case can be made for two subs).
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There are a couple of things to consider. If you want the most even bass response, probably 2 subwoofers will be a better choice (though it will depend on room acoustics and where you place them, and with 2, it will be harder to set things up properly). But if you want the deepest bass response, one better subwoofer will be the better choice. Which matters more to you, depth of bass or evenness of response? If the former, get one good subwoofer. If the latter, then *probably* 2 subwoofers will be better...
@Bubba Blaster , @bgtighe23 , Is that "all things equal" you would go with duals? PB-1000 is 10" driver, while PB-2000 is 12" driver. Did you ever go from dual PB-1000 to a single PB-2000, or did you jump straight from dual to dual? I'm wondering how much of a difference it made to you to step up to the 12" with deeper response.

@jjackkrash & @Jack D Ripper - So, one thing I know for sure--I want a much lower response than what I have now (ASW600). I do not need shaking the walls and I don't listen incredibly loud (often times theaters are little louder than I prefer), but I would like to be able to crank it up in certain situations. Additionally, I'm much less concerned about optimizing for multiple LPs b/c my wife doesn't really notice/care about the difference, and neither do my kids.

My main question is this - Do the recommendations of "depth of bass" vs "evenness of response" hold true if the difference is, say, VTF-2 MK5 (12") vs VTF-3 MK5 (15")?

One last note. If I'm thinking about what I can afford now and that I want deeper response, I would lean to a single VTF-15H MK2, but if I'm thinking about the future (adding another one later), I would probably go with the 3.5. I say that because, of the two best placements I've found through my sub crawl, only one reasonably supports the larger size of the 15.2.

Will I miss much in the depth by going with the 3.5 over the 15.2?

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post #98 of 115 Old 03-07-2018, 08:43 AM
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$1000 Budget - Dual SVS PB-1000 or single PB-2000

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Originally Posted by thephatp View Post
Will I miss much in the depth by going with the 3.5 over the 15.2?

You seem like me in the fact that I don’t listen at crazy loud or Reference volumes. I don’t think you’ll miss anything. Another member in the Hsu thread actually went to Hsu and listened to both in the same room with the same material and he preferred the 3.5 over the 15H and took one home. For the normal price difference take the 3.5, set it up, and enjoy it. Then when the time comes (if needed) buy another one!


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post #99 of 115 Old 03-07-2018, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by thephatp View Post
... @Jack D Ripper - So, one thing I know for sure--I want a much lower response than what I have now (ASW600). I do not need shaking the walls and I don't listen incredibly loud (often times theaters are little louder than I prefer), but I would like to be able to crank it up in certain situations. Additionally, I'm much less concerned about optimizing for multiple LPs b/c my wife doesn't really notice/care about the difference, and neither do my kids.

My main question is this - Do the recommendations of "depth of bass" vs "evenness of response" hold true if the difference is, say, VTF-2 MK5 (12") vs VTF-3 MK5 (15")?

One last note. If I'm thinking about what I can afford now and that I want deeper response, I would lean to a single VTF-15H MK2, but if I'm thinking about the future (adding another one later), I would probably go with the 3.5. I say that because, of the two best placements I've found through my sub crawl, only one reasonably supports the larger size of the 15.2.

Will I miss much in the depth by going with the 3.5 over the 15.2?
Generally speaking, a better subwoofer will play louder and deeper (though, of course, it depends on what one means by "better"). Using 2 subwoofers tends to enable one to deal with room issues better, so that one can have a flatter response (that is what is meant by evenness of response), and over a wider range of seats. So it is not a question of which of the subwoofers we are discussing for this issue of 2 subwoofers; it is having 2 of them that can matter for this. How much of an issue it will be in your room is impossible for any of us to know, as it depends on your room acoustics, where you place your subwoofer(s), and where you will be listening to it. Many people get good results with one subwoofer, though some have problems with the frequency response due to room effects/placement issues. The only way to know in your room would be to try it and see. Sorry, but that is just how it is.

For the depth of bass and loudness, look at reviews in which measurements are taken. Pay attention to the standardized measurements, rather than the "in room" response that some publish, because your room is likely different from the room of the reviewer.

As for how loud you want it or how deep you want it, that is something you have to decide. I know I want bass down to around 15Hz, so at your price, I would be going for depth of bass. But you may not care about that, and might prefer one that will play only down to 20Hz, but play louder. One can see this tradeoff on the various variable tune subwoofers, where one can plug ports and change the tuning, so that one chooses between depth of bass and maximum volume (at the upper part of the subwoofer range). Which is better depends on how loud we are talking about, how deep we are talking about, and personal preference regarding these issues.


Regarding the Hsu Research VTF-15H MK2 & VTF-3 MK5 HP subwoofers, there is not a huge difference in performance:

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...-hp-subwoofers

There is also not a huge difference in price.

But comparing the frequency response curves:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2.html

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html

The more expensive VTF-15H MK2 does give a deeper, flatter response (so it is not just a question of maximum volume), and I would prefer its level of performance. (Note that the price difference is greater than it may seem at first, because the shipping is significantly different). For the price difference, I would think that the more expensive one is the better value, at the current sale price. I would, though, rather dislike its weight, as it will be harder to move around, and, like everyone else, I am not getting any younger. When I think about that, I am really glad I have SVS cylinder subwoofers, as they are much easier to move than comparable box subwoofers. And my SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers are unpowered, which makes them even lighter (though they still weigh about 70 pounds, as the woofer in them is quite heavy). I wish they still made unpowered subwoofers, but as I do not feel the need to ever upgrade, it is not a problem for me. Anyway, if the weight does not bother you, I would choose the VTF-15H MK2, as it is a better performer (as it should be, given that it costs more).
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post #100 of 115 Old 03-08-2018, 06:56 AM
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You seem like me in the fact that I don’t listen at crazy loud or Reference volumes. I don’t think you’ll miss anything. Another member in the Hsu thread actually went to Hsu and listened to both in the same room with the same material and he preferred the 3.5 over the 15H and took one home. For the normal price difference take the 3.5, set it up, and enjoy it. Then when the time comes (if needed) buy another one!
I remember reading that post. That was good to hear/know. I just bought a mic to do some more scientific testing in my room so that I can better determine if I could fit to 15.2s or not. Right now, I'm thinking not, but that's only if the crawl turns out match REW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post
Generally speaking, a better subwoofer will play louder and deeper (though, of course, it depends on what one means by "better"). Using 2 subwoofers tends to enable one to deal with room issues better, so that one can have a flatter response (that is what is meant by evenness of response), and over a wider range of seats. So it is not a question of which of the subwoofers we are discussing for this issue of 2 subwoofers; it is having 2 of them that can matter for this. How much of an issue it will be in your room is impossible for any of us to know, as it depends on your room acoustics, where you place your subwoofer(s), and where you will be listening to it. Many people get good results with one subwoofer, though some have problems with the frequency response due to room effects/placement issues. The only way to know in your room would be to try it and see. Sorry, but that is just how it is.
Makes sense. Just bought a mic, so I'll see what testing tells me this weekend!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post
For the depth of bass and loudness, look at reviews in which measurements are taken. Pay attention to the standardized measurements, rather than the "in room" response that some publish, because your room is likely different from the room of the reviewer.

As for how loud you want it or how deep you want it, that is something you have to decide. I know I want bass down to around 15Hz, so at your price, I would be going for depth of bass. But you may not care about that, and might prefer one that will play only down to 20Hz, but play louder. One can see this tradeoff on the various variable tune subwoofers, where one can plug ports and change the tuning, so that one chooses between depth of bass and maximum volume (at the upper part of the subwoofer range). Which is better depends on how loud we are talking about, how deep we are talking about, and personal preference regarding these issues.


Regarding the Hsu Research VTF-15H MK2 & VTF-3 MK5 HP subwoofers, there is not a huge difference in performance:

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...-hp-subwoofers

There is also not a huge difference in price.

But comparing the frequency response curves:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2.html

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html
Definitely looking at these and others. I was curious what I would see on the sub I have, but I've been unable to find any frequency charts showing the outputs of tests for it. It's pretty old.

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Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post
The more expensive VTF-15H MK2 does give a deeper, flatter response (so it is not just a question of maximum volume), and I would prefer its level of performance. (Note that the price difference is greater than it may seem at first, because the shipping is significantly different). For the price difference, I would think that the more expensive one is the better value, at the current sale price. I would, though, rather dislike its weight, as it will be harder to move around, and, like everyone else, I am not getting any younger. When I think about that, I am really glad I have SVS cylinder subwoofers, as they are much easier to move than comparable box subwoofers. And my SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers are unpowered, which makes them even lighter (though they still weigh about 70 pounds, as the woofer in them is quite heavy). I wish they still made unpowered subwoofers, but as I do not feel the need to ever upgrade, it is not a problem for me. Anyway, if the weight does not bother you, I would choose the VTF-15H MK2, as it is a better performer (as it should be, given that it costs more).
The weight doesn't bother me at all. Besides testing to find the best location for whatever specific sub I buy, I don't plan on moving it around. And it's in a dedicated media room, so my wife won't be asking me to change things up.

Regarding adding another later - If I bought the 15.2 now, would it be a terrible idea to add a 3.5 later, as opposed to another 15.2? I've read that the second doesn't have to be exactly the same, but that it needs to have very similar performance. Are these similar enough? Or should I stick with two of the same model?

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[QUOTE=thephatp;55810412] @Bubba Blaster , @bgtighe23 , Is that "all things equal" you would go with duals? PB-1000 is 10" driver, while PB-2000 is 12" driver. Did you ever go from dual PB-1000 to a single PB-2000, or did you jump straight from dual to dual? I'm wondering how much of a difference it made to you to step up to the 12" with deeper response.

I have not tried one single PB-2000 - I went straight to dual PB-2000s, because for me, it was more for the even envelopment and more immersive sound that duals provide my space. It's more immersive basically. It's filling the air space in a more solid and even way, even for just one listening position.. For me, it adds presence which makes for a more life-like sound reconstruction of a movie's LFE and more presence to music as well.

Yes, there is added depth, punch, and impact from the PB-2000s compared to the PB-1000s, and I noticed that without even pushing them hard. This would be true even if running just a single a against dual PB-1000 setup. The PB-2000 also added more texture and dimension in a subtle but noticeable way, which surprised me. Totally worth it if you can swing for dual PB-2000s over the PB-1000s...or bigger, as this conversation has drifted towards!

I would recommend trying duals and if you don't see the benefits, then return one. It's worth the possible shipping costs I think, depending on the rates and your situation in general.
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post #102 of 115 Old 03-08-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubba Blaster View Post
...because for me, it was more for the even envelopment and more immersive sound that duals provide my space. It's more immersive basically. It's filling the air space in a more solid and even way, even for just one listening position.. For me, it adds presence which makes for a more life-like sound reconstruction of a movie's LFE and more presence to music as well.
Ah, that makes sense. I'm sure I'll end up wanting this as well.

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I would recommend trying duals and if you don't see the benefits, then return one. It's worth the possible shipping costs I think, depending on the rates and your situation in general.
Unfortunately, I cannot afford 2 at the moment. I know for sure that I want the deep extension--that's one thing I'm seriously missing right now--and to get where I want, I think I'd have to go with a larger driver, hence the VTF-15H MK2 or VTF-3 MK5.

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post #103 of 115 Old 03-08-2018, 10:41 PM
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If I bought the VTF-15H M2 now, would it be a terrible idea to add a VTF-3 MK5 later, as opposed to another 15.2?

I've read that the second doesn't have to be exactly the same, but that it needs to have very similar performance. Are these similar enough? Or should I stick with two of the same model?

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post #104 of 115 Old 03-09-2018, 12:10 AM
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If I bought the VTF-15H M2 now, would it be a terrible idea to add a VTF-3 MK5 later, as opposed to another 15.2?

I've read that the second doesn't have to be exactly the same, but that it needs to have very similar performance. Are these similar enough? Or should I stick with two of the same model?
Personally, I would buy another VTF-15H if you do buy another later on. It's probably not going to be a big issue, but the VTF-3.5 is going to lag behind a bit lower in range and has less port area. It would also bother me a bit not having matching subs, but you may not be quite as OCD as me.

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post #105 of 115 Old 03-09-2018, 10:00 AM
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I agree, I would match them. The price difference is not worth the potential negatives, even though they wouldn't be major.
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post #106 of 115 Old 03-09-2018, 03:39 PM
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Personally, I would buy another VTF-15H if you do buy another later on. It's probably not going to be a big issue, but the VTF-3.5 is going to lag behind a bit lower in range and has less port area. It would also bother me a bit not having matching subs, but you may not be quite as OCD as me.
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I agree, I would match them. The price difference is not worth the potential negatives, even though they wouldn't be major.
I also think it would bother me. I'm OCD like that too.

The main problem is that only 1 of the 2 ideal spots (from what I can tell so far) has enough room for the 15.2. So, if I'm going to reserve the ability for 2 subs, I have to get the 3.5 instead of the 15.2.

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post #107 of 115 Old 03-11-2018, 08:58 PM
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Explain HAVE to... would be a shame to let the better one go, but either way I would still match them.
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post #108 of 115 Old 03-12-2018, 06:28 AM
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Explain HAVE to... would be a shame to let the better one go, but either way I would still match them.
First assumption: The measured "ideal locations" do not change when using 2 subs vs 1 sub.
Second assumption: I put the subs in the two most "ideal locations."

If the first assumption is invalid, I don't know how I would test for the second ideal location, at least not without having both subs, which isn't feasible. Thus, I have to keep this assumption.

At the very least, now that I have a mic and REW, I will run the tests with the sub at the MLP, and the mic in the other positions highlighted by the crawl. I'll then swap and put the mic at the MLP and move the sub around--all to confirm the original crawl results, or to establish any new ideal positions (because I have a mic, which should be more accurate than my ears)--including testing out other locations that the crawl previously eliminated.

That leads into the second assumption. If, after the tests with mic and REW, the ideal locations are the same, and I want to use an ideal location for both subs, then I would have to get the 3.5, because one of those two locations physically cannot fit the 15.2.

Now, what would be better?
  1. Two 3.5s, both in the two most ideal locations (right now, only have 2 ideal locations); OR
  2. Two 15.2s, one in an ideal location, and one not in an ideal location.

Would #2 really be a good/reasonable/worthwhile tradeoff? I would think not, but I'm far from experienced in this, so I welcome any and all feedback.

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post #109 of 115 Old 03-12-2018, 07:08 AM
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I also think it would bother me. I'm OCD like that too.



The main problem is that only 1 of the 2 ideal spots (from what I can tell so far) has enough room for the 15.2. So, if I'm going to reserve the ability for 2 subs, I have to get the 3.5 instead of the 15.2.

You will not be disappointed in the VTF-3 MK5! Get two of those and be happy!!!


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post #110 of 115 Old 03-12-2018, 05:53 PM
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...
Now, what would be better?
  1. Two 3.5s, both in the two most ideal locations (right now, only have 2 ideal locations); OR
  2. Two 15.2s, one in an ideal location, and one not in an ideal location.

Would #2 really be a good/reasonable/worthwhile tradeoff? I would think not, but I'm far from experienced in this, so I welcome any and all feedback.
It would depend on how far (acoustically speaking) it was from being ideal (relative to what it would be like in the "ideal" locations). That is, it would depend on how much less than ideal this location would be. You would still likely have deeper bass and the ability to play it louder.

Unfortunately, the only way to be certain of things would be to try them both and compare. As that is impractical, if you already have two subwoofers, if you put them in the less than ideal locations that you would have to use for the larger subwoofers, how much does the performance suffer? If it is only a minor difference, then probably the two bigger subwoofers would be a better choice.

Of course, we have no way of knowing how much less than ideal the performance would be in the lesser location, so we cannot guarantee much of anything. Unless the position is very bad, I would go with the better subwoofers.



You could also go with something more expensive that would take up less floor space, and probably would be able to fit in more places in your room:

https://www.svsound.com/collections/...oducts/pc-4000

https://www.avsforum.com/first-look-r...-cylinder-sub/

With their small footprint, you might even be able to fit 4 of them in your room. Hey, it's only money!
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post #111 of 115 Old 03-12-2018, 06:13 PM
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You will not be disappointed in the VTF-3 MK5! Get two of those and be happy!!!
But...I'm stuck...in...analysis paralysis...UGH.

That said, thanks for the encouragement!

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It would depend on how far (acoustically speaking) it was from being ideal (relative to what it would be like in the "ideal" locations). That is, it would depend on how much less than ideal this location would be. You would still likely have deeper bass and the ability to play it louder.

Unfortunately, the only way to be certain of things would be to try them both and compare. As that is impractical, if you already have two subwoofers, if you put them in the less than ideal locations that you would have to use for the larger subwoofers, how much does the performance suffer? If it is only a minor difference, then probably the two bigger subwoofers would be a better choice.

Of course, we have no way of knowing how much less than ideal the performance would be in the lesser location, so we cannot guarantee much of anything. Unless the position is very bad, I would go with the better subwoofers.
This is what is killing me. I hate having to make a decision without listening, but that's just how it is. I happen to have another subwoofer around, but it's a super cheap Monoprice sub I got in a 5.1 package for the garage for around $150 about 10 years ago. Assuming it wouldn't do a whole of good testing that along with my ASW sub, huh?

I do wonder... When I was doing the crawl, one corner that is closer to the MLP was louder than everywhere else in the room (though right beside the MLP was a dead zone), but was definitely the most muddy of the 4 main places I would consider. Obviously, this was with no calibration for that configuration, so here's my question:

How much could Audyssey correct for in a situations such as this? If a calibration could clean that up quite a bit, maybe that would be a good (or reasonable) spot for a second sub?

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You could also go with something more expensive that would take up less floor space, and probably would be able to fit in more places in your room:

https://www.svsound.com/collections/...oducts/pc-4000

https://www.avsforum.com/first-look-r...-cylinder-sub/

With their small footprint, you might even be able to fit 4 of them in your room. Hey, it's only money!
My response to this:
My wife's response to this:
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post #112 of 115 Old 03-12-2018, 07:44 PM
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I think you need to just decide. Yes, it is unfortunate that one must make decisions without all of the necessary information to be certain that it is the best choice. But that is how life is. Should one go to college, and will it really be worth the cost? And if one goes to college, what major will be best for one's future happiness? How can one be sure that that major will make one happier, in the long run, than another one? And so it is with countless other matters, that one must decide with incomplete information. In this case, we are discussing good subwoofers, so it should not be a horrible mistake no matter what you pick. (I like the idea of 4 SVS-PC-4000 subwoofers best, which you can buy one at a time as funds permit, though it will be good to remember that a divorce could be costly and you might lose half of your subwoofers that way. So for this to work, you will need to figure out how to avoid annoying your wife too much.)

Keeping the price down, I would go with the Hsu Research VTF-15H MK2. And later, get another one like it, even if it cannot be ideally placed. Of course, I could be making the wrong decision that way. But unless you try all of the options, you will never be sure of that, one way or the other. Going the other way would not be a foolish choice; I cannot be certain that it is the wrong choice for you. So, you have researched the matter, as best you can, and you still do not have perfect knowledge, and must just decide. Sorry, life sucks that way. But on the bright side, eventually, you will receive the sweet release of death, and then have no more such worries! And then it will not matter what you chose for your subwoofer dilemma. See, it will all work out in the end!

God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
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post #113 of 115 Old 03-12-2018, 08:01 PM
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First assumption: The measured "ideal locations" do not change when using 2 subs vs 1 sub.
Second assumption: I put the subs in the two most "ideal locations."

If the first assumption is invalid, I don't know how I would test for the second ideal location, at least not without having both subs, which isn't feasible. Thus, I have to keep this assumption.

At the very least, now that I have a mic and REW, I will run the tests with the sub at the MLP, and the mic in the other positions highlighted by the crawl. I'll then swap and put the mic at the MLP and move the sub around--all to confirm the original crawl results, or to establish any new ideal positions (because I have a mic, which should be more accurate than my ears)--including testing out other locations that the crawl previously eliminated.

That leads into the second assumption. If, after the tests with mic and REW, the ideal locations are the same, and I want to use an ideal location for both subs, then I would have to get the 3.5, because one of those two locations physically cannot fit the 15.2.

Now, what would be better?
  1. Two 3.5s, both in the two most ideal locations (right now, only have 2 ideal locations); OR
  2. Two 15.2s, one in an ideal location, and one not in an ideal location.

Would #2 really be a good/reasonable/worthwhile tradeoff? I would think not, but I'm far from experienced in this, so I welcome any and all feedback.

I would think the two 3.5s would be the better answer especially if the bad placement of the 2nd 15.2 nullified some of the advantage you were trying to get with the larger cabinet.

That said there is almost no way to know other than to get both and measure them in your room. It can be tough to make these calls. Personally I am leaning towards a pair of 3.5 since my space wouldn't look great with the 15.2 in it (very deep cabinet). I wouldn't care a bit between these two... they are the same driver and the same amp, just the larger cabinet of the 15.2 allows it to get a bit lower. Although these forums can make you go pretty crazy... reading them always makes you wish you had 8 18inch ported subs in the room. But I am still amazed with how my pair of pb1000s sound so it is all relative.
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post #114 of 115 Old 03-13-2018, 07:16 AM
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I think you need to just decide...

So, you have researched the matter, as best you can, and you still do not have perfect knowledge, and must just decide. Sorry, life sucks that way. But on the bright side, eventually, you will receive the sweet release of death, and then have no more such worries! And then it will not matter what you chose for your subwoofer dilemma. See, it will all work out in the end!
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That said there is almost no way to know other than to get both and measure them in your room. It can be tough to make these calls.
True--doesn't matter what I do or info I get, I'll definitely be deciding without hearing them at all.

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Personally I am leaning towards a pair of 3.5 since my space wouldn't look great with the 15.2 in it (very deep cabinet). I wouldn't care a bit between these two... they are the same driver and the same amp, just the larger cabinet of the 15.2 allows it to get a bit lower. Although these forums can make you go pretty crazy... reading them always makes you wish you had 8 18inch ported subs in the room. But I am still amazed with how my pair of pb1000s sound so it is all relative.
I actually started thinking something similar. My wife has been awesome at letting me to pretty much whatever I want. Right now, I think I'm leaning to the 3.5 just so I'm not seriously pushing it when I tell her I want a second one in a couple years. Having two 15.2s would definitely stand out more. It's possible she wouldn't care, but the 3.5s would be a safer bet.

Thanks to everyone for all the input, advice, and opinions!

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post #115 of 115 Old 03-13-2018, 08:00 AM
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Yup, you're in the weeds, a very familiar place for me. Either one is going to be amazing. Aesthetics are something to consider at this point for sure, especially if you know you aren't going to be changing things or moving for a long time. Sounds like the 3.5s will be a good fit. Whatever you do though, keep them matched.


To answer your Audy question, it has been my experience that it isn't going to effect the bass frequencies as much as room placement will.


When it comes to "ideal", you could be looking at something that doesn't matter or it could really make a difference - only you can decide. In general if it seems like it's not a major difference, I would tend towards the better sub, unless you are choosing between two really good subs that don't have a major difference in them either. At that point aesthetics and other form over function items would play a factor.


Also, to be honest, REW and SPL meters are definitely playing in the weeds as far as I'm concerned (don't kill me people). While more useful in certain difficult rooms and for making it quick and easy to find best placement and such, it's very easy to get too picky on what "ideal" is. Small differences are not likely to be noticed or really matter to your ears. They are good for product comparisons and such and to get a handle on numbers for people who can't hear them for themselves, but a bit overkill when it comes to a single customer setup. This is my opinion anyway.


Without knowing your room or anything, my blind guess is that two 15.2s will do fine, even if not in the most perfect spot. I would go with those unless aesthetics is a big factor, in which case I would go with the 3.5s and not look back. I have dual PB-2000s and they are plenty - both those models are bigger subs and either should make you happy.
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