Buttkicker LFE for movie. Receiver or Amp - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 106 Old 03-04-2018, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Buttkicker LFE for movie. Receiver or Amp

I probably start with a dying tech, butt here I go.

I just came from a cinema where they used butkickers and I like that very much.
So now I like to have those myself.
D-Box is to much for me, because I did not liked that Star Wars 4Dx experience the last time, because I missed a lot from the movie itself.

I want to do the buttkicking serious, so I'll go for the heavy ones, Buttkicker LFE, or are there better transducers?

I have 2 sofas, so I need 2 buttkickers, but maybe I just do 1 couch.
The buttkicker LFE go from 5Hz to 200Hz,... I'll probably cut the high off at about 50Hz or so.

Can I attach a buttkicker directly to my Denon AVR-X7200WA?

If not, I need a Amp that can drive 2 of them (just in case I use it with both sofas)
I saw the Dayton Audio SA1000, that seems to be really quiet, but I have read that it doesn't go lower than 30Hz, but the spec also say 18Hz to 80Hz. Can anyone confirm?

The other solution might be the Behringer NU6000, which seems to make some noise because of it's fans, but that Amp goes tas low as 20Hz. Is that correct?

What options do I have to reach 5Hz?


Another thing,...
Can I mount the buttkicker onderneath my sofa, or does it actually need to touch the floor as well, for pushing of?

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post #2 of 106 Old 03-04-2018, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Just added some info more to the point.
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post #3 of 106 Old 03-05-2018, 05:07 AM
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I was going to suggest the ButtKicker BKA1000-N as it is built for the job so no compatibility issues. You used to be able to buy it on its own or with the LFE transducer as a kit.

The problem is that they always seem to be out of stock or on back order and now even worse they are no longer on the actual Buttkicker website. Anyone care to guess what is going on?
https://thebuttkicker.com/all-products/

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post #4 of 106 Old 03-05-2018, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I was going to suggest the ButtKicker BKA1000-N as it is built for the job so no compatibility issues. You used to be able to buy it on its own or with the LFE transducer as a kit.

The problem is that they always seem to be out of stock or on back order and now even worse they are no longer on the actual Buttkicker website. Anyone care to guess what is going on?
https://thebuttkicker.com/all-products/
At first I wanted to order that Amp, but as you say, the BKA1000-N cannot be ordered anymore.
The specs of that Amp sais, it wont go lower trhan 25Hz, zo probably not the best Amp afteral.
Also it seems to have a lot of problems, as somebody wrote this elsewhere.
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post #5 of 106 Old 03-05-2018, 07:05 AM
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I started with 4 buttkicker LFE's in 2009. Thought they were great. But sometimes they bottom out and make a horrible noise. For that you have to turn them down until that *never* happens. This, in turn causes the bottoming out point in a single movie to be your limit of where you can run them. (I used transformers 2 intro as a test that always bottomed them).

Later, I discovered earthquake qb10's. These were a little better than the buttkickers in that they were slightly faster and if you like the transducers with music, they're much quieter than the buttkickers. They also never bottom out - never. Unfortunately, these are $550 a piece. Ouch. I bought 4 While these were quieter and more musical than the buttkickers, they still made a little bit of noise at very low volume music. So...next up the MQB-1.

For whatever reason tried out an earthquake MQB-1 from amazon. They're $150 shipped prime. I figured I had nothing to lose. I was quite shocked that these were by far the best shakers I've ever had. First, they're dead silent. You never, ever hear any sound. I can play music at a very low volume and still get a pretty satisfying shake from these without having to have them cranked up. At these volumes the buttkickers would not move at all. I also found that these things disappear into the subwoofer so well that you dont realize they're shakers instead you just think you moved your subwoofer into the couch. They're just as aggressive as the buttkickers at high volume if you have attached them to your furniture using the included bracket (this is the way you want to run any shaker anyway). The reason these things are so much better for music is that they feel faster. Instant. You don't realize it until you do a comparison but the buttkickers are a little sloppy or slow comparatively. I cant recommend the earthquake MQB-1 enough to anyone that wants shakers. I bolted 4 of mine to each of the 4 main seats using the bracket that comes with them.

Yea, next is the amp. The buttkicker BKA1000 is by far the best amp for shakers I've ever used. I've tried crowns, ep4000 (which I love for my subs), inuke amps. There's just something about the buttkicker amp that drives shakers better. It's almost like the amp is slightly boosted at the frequency where you want your shakers to perform. Unfortunately, these amps are no longer available and haven't been for a few years. I bought 2 extras to store in case of emergency. Unfortunately, these amps are known to go up in smoke so maybe that's why they're no longer available.

Of all the substitutes, the best I've found was an inuke1000dsp (or 3000dsp), which if you enable the DSP and give a little boost around 20 hz it does pretty well for shakers. I could probably be happy enough with that setup as a last resort. If you go this route, you'll want to also buy a $70 cleanbox pro (amazon prime) to bring the input levels up. The inuke amp is unusually sensitive to the lower voltage provided by unbalanced home audio outputs. With this cleanbox pro, you'll have tons of power for your shakers. The inuke1000dsp can run 4 of them no problem.

In summary, I'd go with earthquake MQB-1 instead of buttkicker. Not only do you save $100 each, you get much better performance especially in music. Worst case you can buy from amazon prime and return and buy a buttkicker instead if you're not convinced. If you cant find a used BKA1000 amp, I'd grab an inuke1000dsp and cleanbox pro and call it good. Oh one last thing. I should note that the regular price for the MQB-1's is $300 a piece which is more expensive than the buttkickers. But amazon prime seems to *always* have them at $154 or so prime.
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post #6 of 106 Old 03-05-2018, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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In summary, I'd go with earthquake MQB-1 instead of buttkicker. Not only do you save $100 each, you get much better performance especially in music. Worst case you can buy from amazon prime and return and buy a buttkicker instead if you're not convinced. If you cant find a used BKA1000 amp, I'd grab an inuke1000dsp and cleanbox pro and call it good. Oh one last thing. I should note that the regular price for the MQB-1's is $300 a piece which is more expensive than the buttkickers. But amazon prime seems to *always* have them at $154 or so prime.
Wow thank you for all that experienced info.
It was the Buttkicker LFE and not the Buttkicker Mini LFE that you had?

I don't think I will like to hear music coming out of my transducer,... the Earthquake NQB-1 does not do that?
No need for the Behringer NU6000 than?
Is a Behringer NU3000 or even NU1000 more quiet, than the NU 6000?
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post #7 of 106 Old 03-05-2018, 09:58 AM
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Candle,
There are a lot of folks who like the Crowson's-Crowson Tech Shadow-8 x2. You could ask member Sekosche, as he has tried the buttkicker's and have gone with the Crowson. I guess it depends on how much $ you want to spend. I have a buttkicker LFE with the buttkicker BKA1000 AMP, but it is dying. I do enjoy it at times, more so at night when I can turn the other subs down/off, so as not to disturb the wife. Sekosche and I believe Hopinater have actually mounted the Crowson actuators to the bottom of their couch(with slight modifications) and are quite pleased with the results.
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post #8 of 106 Old 03-05-2018, 10:23 AM
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Yes you can mount a buttkicker directly to the couch:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...ual-guide.html
I have 1 LFE and 1 advanced mounted to the underside of the couch. I mounted them to a cut 2X4 and then drilled holes into the wood and bolted the buttkickers to the frame. Greatly increased the "feel" of the transducers.
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post #9 of 106 Old 03-05-2018, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info.
I have all new reading and review watching material now.
If the shacking is heavy like it is my Subwoofer that does it, I'll go for it.
I won't like the feel of having a DualShock Joystick underneeth my sofas, and I don't like to hear some music coming out of it either.
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post #10 of 106 Old 03-06-2018, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candle View Post
Wow thank you for all that experienced info.
It was the Buttkicker LFE and not the Buttkicker Mini LFE that you had?

I don't think I will like to hear music coming out of my transducer,... the Earthquake NQB-1 does not do that?
No need for the Behringer NU6000 than?
Is a Behringer NU3000 or even NU1000 more quiet, than the NU 6000?
You definitely do not hear music coming from the transducer. I say they're more musical because the shaking sensation during musical bass notes feels more like a subwoofer and less like a shaker. The shakers are so fast compared to buttkickers. Yea I definitely had the full sized buttkicker LFEs the ones that are $250 a piece. I still have 2 unused ones left that I haven't sold yet.

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post #11 of 106 Old 03-06-2018, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
You definitely do not hear music coming from the transducer. I say they're more musical because the shaking sensation during musical bass notes feels more like a subwoofer and less like a shaker. The shakers are so fast compared to buttkickers. Yea I definitely had the full sized buttkicker LFEs the ones that are $250 a piece. I still have 2 unused ones left that I haven't sold yet.
Okay, wow, thank you.
Glad that it was hard to order the Butkicker LFE with a good Amp. Would have been dissapointing afterall.
Have you had any experience with the Crowson's-Crowson Tech Shadow-8 x2 as well?
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post #12 of 106 Old 03-06-2018, 01:52 PM
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I recently added a Buttkicker LFE to my mid-sized sectional and could not be happier. I am using a Crown XLS1002 for power (1100 watts) with fans so quiet you don't know its even on. The connections on the crown are simple and you don't need adapters to hook up to standard A/V gear. I have mine set to only play at 40hz and down so I don't feel it with music, just the big heavy hitting parts. I have plenty of headroom and don't bottom out at all. This thing blends perfectly well with my dual SVS PB12 pluses and just adds a nice tactile feel that I don't think could be achieved with Subs alone. All in all I paid under $600 for both.

You can mount these to the BK-LFE mounting plate that the sofa sits on top of (one leg) and use supplied rubber isolators for the other feet.
The Crown amp can play down to about 10hz so not sure how much I'm missing out on anything below that.


Hope this helps!
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post #13 of 106 Old 03-06-2018, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Crown, 10Hz, which is very low indeed and I like the word quiet, because I don't like my PS4 for that.
The Behringers seem to make more noise and stop at 20Hz?
The Behringers do look really cool.

In the mean time, I was looking at this Earthquake MQB-1:
https://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-So.../dp/B006H3SV1E

Also this Clearbox Pro that needs to go along with the Behringer:
https://www.amazon.com/ART-CLEANBoxP.../dp/B003S7T49K

I also did look at the Crowson set:
http://crowsontech.com/go/crowsontec...450&lang=en-us
This looks really compact and professional, but you have to pay for it.
I like the fact that they have a nice Amp to go with it.
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post #14 of 106 Old 03-17-2018, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Comparing shakers like Earthquake MQB-1 to transducers like Crownson, or cheaper ones,... what feels more real?
Transducers are smaller, so to me it seems they work more like a vibration plate with fast vibrations instead of lifting up the sofa.
I could be very wrong of course?
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post #15 of 106 Old 03-17-2018, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candle View Post
Comparing shakers like Earthquake MQB-1 to transducers like Crownson, or cheaper ones,... what feels more real?
Transducers are smaller, so to me it seems they work more like a vibration plate with fast vibrations instead of lifting up the sofa.
I could be very wrong of course?
My earthquake's make it feel like the subwoofer is in a box right behind your sofa firing into the sofa. You cant tell they're shakers. With the buttkickers people use to know they were shakers. Now people just think its my array of 15" subs that they feel. It doesn't get anymore realistic than that. The MQB-1's will need to be bolted to your sofa. I bolted mine to the bottom right and left corners of the wood on the metal bracket that they come with.

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post #16 of 106 Old 03-17-2018, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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The Earthquake MQB-1 is indeed very cheap, so I've put them into my basket, next to the Clean Box and the Crown XLS2502 Amp.
Maybe I change the Amp to the Crown XTi-1002, which has less power for the same price, but with DSP.

Still I'm not sure if the Hz will go low enough.
On all Amps it sais 20Hz - 20kHz, as well on the Crown as the Behringer NU3000.
Seems to me it should go lower for the shakers to impress enough..

I think the Crown Amps have a balanced input, so do I need the cleanbox Pro?

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The Earthquake MQB-1 is indeed very cheap, so I've put them into my basket, next to the Clean Box and the Crown XLS2502 Amp.
Maybe I change the Amp to the Crown XTi-1002, which has less power for the same price, but with DSP.

Still I'm not sure if the Hz will go low enough.
On all Amps it sais 20Hz - 20kHz, as well on the Crown as the Behringer NU3000.
Seems to me it should go lower for the shakers to impress enough..

I think the Crown Amps have a balanced input, so do I need the cleanbox Pro?
Anyone?
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post #18 of 106 Old 03-20-2018, 01:08 PM
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Great thread! I've got both the BKA-1000 amp and BK-LFE transducer that I haven't used in years (due to the LFE bottoming out). Will have to look into those MQB-1s...

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I'm glad you like the thread.
It's all very new for me, so I'm still reading a lot about the differend Amps. I like them to be quiet.

I think I have to go for the Crown XTi ver.2 serie, because I've read, this Amps are quiet and the XTi v2 have deeper Sub compared to the Crown XLS. It will probably be the XTi-2002, just to make sure it can drive 2x Earthquake MQB-1's

Still not sure if I need a Clean Box next to the Crown XTi-2002.
Is it to take away the Hiss sound those Amps produce?
The Crown Amps have a balanced input, so do I need the cleanbox Pro?

Main thing that's keeping me for now is that I'm still not sure if the Hz will go low enough.
On all Amps it sais 20Hz - 20kHz.
Seems to me it should go lower for the shakers to impress.
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If the amp is just for the transducers; wouldn't think you need a full range class A/B like those Crowns. What about something like an NU3000DSP to drive them?

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post #21 of 106 Old 03-22-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
My earthquake's make it feel like the subwoofer is in a box right behind your sofa firing into the sofa. You cant tell they're shakers. With the buttkickers people use to know they were shakers. Now people just think its my array of 15" subs that they feel. It doesn't get anymore realistic than that. The MQB-1's will need to be bolted to your sofa. I bolted mine to the bottom right and left corners of the wood on the metal bracket that they come with.
Great thread. These earthquakes take up to 500wAtts so they must produce some nice effects. I have a row of three theater chairs. Any issues with mounting to a chair instead of a couch? Do you use any vibration feet on your couch. I might give these a try.
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post #22 of 106 Old 03-22-2018, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
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I'm glad you like the thread.
It's all very new for me, so I'm still reading a lot about the differend Amps. I like them to be quiet.

I think I have to go for the Crown XTi ver.2 serie, because I've read, this Amps are quiet and the XTi v2 have deeper Sub compared to the Crown XLS. It will probably be the XTi-2002, just to make sure it can drive 2x Earthquake MQB-1's

Still not sure if I need a Clean Box next to the Crown XTi-2002.
Is it to take away the Hiss sound those Amps produce?
The Crown Amps have a balanced input, so do I need the cleanbox Pro?

Main thing that's keeping me for now is that I'm still not sure if the Hz will go low enough.
On all Amps it sais 20Hz - 20kHz.
Seems to me it should go lower for the shakers to impress.
Have you looked at the plate amps at partsexpress? Dayton makes a couple with dsp.
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post #23 of 106 Old 03-22-2018, 01:41 PM
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Great thread. These earthquakes take up to 500wAtts so they must produce some nice effects. I have a row of three theater chairs. Any issues with mounting to a chair instead of a couch? Do you use any vibration feet on your couch. I might give these a try.
Mounting to a chair should be fine as long as you can mount using the included L bracket.

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Mounting to a chair should be fine as long as you can mount using the included L bracket.
Thanks. Looking into an amp. Would like something smallish and silent because it will be behind my seats. The Dayton amps with dsp look good to me but they are 4ohm and these transducers are 8. Anyone know if it is possible to wire two 8 ohm transducers to make a 4ohm load?
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post #25 of 106 Old 03-22-2018, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by keeper View Post
Have you looked at the plate amps at partsexpress? Dayton makes a couple with dsp.
For driving 2 Earthquakes, I need a lot of Watts and than the price of those Daytons will not be that much differend.
The Crowns XTi v2's have DSP as well, but are very quiet.
For Dayton, it sais; Low-pass crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, • Parametric EQ: Frequency: 18 - 80 Hz.
Does this mean the Earthquake kan let me feel 18Hz?
If so, other amps say 20hz-20khz, but maybe they can go lower as well.

I have to check the amount of noise on the Dayton amps., so I'll come back on that.

Last edited by Candle; 03-22-2018 at 02:55 PM.
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post #26 of 106 Old 03-22-2018, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Candle View Post
For driving 2 Earthquakes, I need a lot of Watts and than the price of those Daytons will not be that much differend.
The Crowns XTi v2's have DSP as well, but are very quiet.
For Dayton, it sais; Low-pass crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, • Parametric EQ: Frequency: 18 - 80 Hz.
Does this mean the Earthquake kan let me feel 18Hz?
If so, other amps say 20hz-20khz, but maybe they can go lower as well.

I have to check the amount of noise on the Dayton amps., so I'll come back on that.
The Dayton’s are cheaper and has auto on. Doesn’t make sense for a sub amp to cutoff at 30hz? I’m not much help as I’ve never own transducers before but I’m really considering these earthquakes and like you need a good amp to power 8ohm transducers. Would like two transducers. The Dayton come in a variety of plate amps. I’m looking at the 500watt one.
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post #27 of 106 Old 03-22-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Candle View Post
I probably start with a dying tech, butt here I go.

I just came from a cinema where they used butkickers and I like that very much.
So now I like to have those myself.
D-Box is to much for me, because I did not liked that Star Wars 4Dx experience the last time, because I missed a lot from the movie itself.

I want to do the buttkicking serious, so I'll go for the heavy ones, Buttkicker LFE, or are there better transducers?

I have 2 sofas, so I need 2 buttkickers, but maybe I just do 1 couch.
The buttkicker LFE go from 5Hz to 200Hz,... I'll probably cut the high off at about 50Hz or so.

Can I attach a buttkicker directly to my Denon AVR-X7200WA?

If not, I need a Amp that can drive 2 of them (just in case I use it with both sofas)
I saw the Dayton Audio SA1000, that seems to be really quiet, but I have read that it doesn't go lower than 30Hz, but the spec also say 18Hz to 80Hz. Can anyone confirm?

The other solution might be the Behringer NU6000, which seems to make some noise because of it's fans, but that Amp goes tas low as 20Hz. Is that correct?

What options do I have to reach 5Hz?


Another thing,...
Can I mount the buttkicker onderneath my sofa, or does it actually need to touch the floor as well, for pushing of?

Another Behringer choice could be;
https://www.parts-express.com/behrin...fier--248-6704


Like the nu6000, there will be some noise fan, maybe you can install one of these, away from your listing spot.
Also not sure how low they go.


I would strongly having those buttkickers, using a separate amp, and not your AVR.
I got the same Tactile Transducer, using a mono power amp, and 300 watts is not enough for high volume with lots of tactile vibration.


Just some info.


Ray
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post #28 of 106 Old 03-22-2018, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by keeper View Post
The Dayton’s are cheaper and has auto on. Doesn’t make sense for a sub amp to cutoff at 30hz? I’m not much help as I’ve never own transducers before but I’m really considering these earthquakes and like you need a good amp to power 8ohm transducers. Would like two transducers. The Dayton come in a variety of plate amps. I’m looking at the 500watt one.
But 500 Watt is just enough for 1 earthquake MQB-1.
Are you planning to use 1 plate amp for every earthquake than?
I was thinking of going that route once myself.
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post #29 of 106 Old 03-22-2018, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Another Behringer choice could be;
https://www.parts-express.com/behrin...fier--248-6704


Like the nu6000, there will be some noise fan, maybe you can install one of these, away from your listing spot.
Also not sure how low they go.


I would strongly having those buttkickers, using a separate amp, and not your AVR.
I got the same Tactile Transducer, using a mono power amp, and 300 watts is not enough for high volume with lots of tactile vibration.


Just some info.


Ray
Thanks for thinking along.
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post #30 of 106 Old 03-22-2018, 03:48 PM
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Thanks for thinking along.

I should have also mention, when I say not enough power.
The TT did bottom out a few time, due to lack of power, a loud Clack


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