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post #1 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you have too much subwoofer?

I am looking at upgrading my speakers to the XTZ Cinema series and thought I would look at upgrading my subwoofer at the same time. Room size 17 x 16 x 8 with an open door. The room is on the second floor. Currently I have a RSL Speedwoofer (10 inches). Use is 100% Home theater. I have looked at several subwoofers but I have several hesitations, they are:


1) Should I purchase 2 quality 12"; or
2) Should I purchase 1 larger sub 15" or 18"; and
3) Can I actually buy too large of a subwoofer and it will over power the room since it is of modest size?


I have a little time to make my decision since I will be upgrading speakers first.
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post #2 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modesto66 View Post
I am looking at upgrading my speakers to the XTZ Cinema series and thought I would look at upgrading my subwoofer at the same time. Room size 17 x 16 x 8 with an open door. The room is on the second floor. Currently I have a RSL Speedwoofer (10 inches). Use is 100% Home theater. I have looked at several subwoofers but I have several hesitations, they are:


1) Should I purchase 2 quality 12"; or
2) Should I purchase 1 larger sub 15" or 18"; and
3) Can I actually buy too large of a subwoofer and it will over power the room since it is of modest size?


I have a little time to make my decision since I will be upgrading speakers first.
Never too much subwoofer. You just turn down the gain. It's better to have the extra overhead, although some ported subs can sometimes get a little overwhelming in very small rooms for some people - that is mostly a function of the design and not of subwoofer power. Your room is not small enough for that concern.

Dual subwoofers are always the end goal regardless of what size you go. Not all 12", 15", etc, subs are created equal so it would be better to talk specific models rather than size per se. Now, would two 12" subs like the the HSu VTF 2 Mk 5 or Rythmik LVX12 be sufficient for your space - I would say yes, depending on how big the opening is to the other room and how big that room is. Subwoofers see all space that they are open to. Two 12" subs like the ones I just mentioned will actually have more combined output than several of the single 15" subs available, too.

Tell us what models you have in mind and what your max budget is.

Last edited by bargugl; 04-30-2018 at 07:53 AM.
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post #3 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Top end of budget is $2500.


These are the subwoofers that I have considered, but started to worry that many could overpower the room. I can fit one large subwoofer under a large side table sandwiched between two sofas. If I go with two subwoofers I need to downsize a little since the second one would be unhidden. The door opening is 7" x 36" As you can see I'm all over the map and seem to be frozen in making a choice.


1) Monoprice Monolith 15"
2) XTZ 3 x 12 (like because it would be the same brand as speakers)
3) JTR Cap 1400
4) Rythmik FV15 HP (intrigued by Rythmik since I live in the Houston area and they are located in Austin).
5) HSU VTF-15 H MK2
6) Rythmik LVX12 (2)
7) Monoprice 12 (2)
8) HSU ULS 15 MK2 (2)
7) or add another RSL speedwoofer to the one that I have. I have no fault with the subwoofer that I have, but it is my first and only experience with a subwoofer.
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post #4 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modesto66 View Post
Top end of budget is $2500.


These are the subwoofers that I have considered, but started to worry that many could overpower the room. I can fit one large subwoofer under a large side table sandwiched between two sofas. If I go with two subwoofers I need to downsize a little since the second one would be unhidden. The door opening is 7" x 36" As you can see I'm all over the map and seem to be frozen in making a choice.

1) Monoprice Monolith 15"
2) XTZ 3 x 12 (like because it would be the same brand as speakers)
3) JTR Cap 1400
4) Rythmik FV15 HP (intrigued by Rythmik since I live in the Houston area and they are located in Austin).
5) HSU VTF-15 H MK2
6) Rythmik LVX12 (2)
7) Monoprice 12 (2)
8) HSU ULS 15 MK2 (2)
7) or add another RSL speedwoofer to the one that I have. I have no fault with the subwoofer that I have, but it is my first and only experience with a subwoofer.
None of the above.

Let's see...

If you can accommodate a XTZ 3 x 12 ( 40" H x 21.1" W x 22" D ), there is no reason you can't fit a JTR Captivator 2400ULF ( 41″ H x 20.5″ W x 22.5″ D )...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...group-buy.html

toddct in the Houston area is organizing a JTR group buy in which 4 subs shipped to the same address will get free shipping. He already ordered 2 Cap 2400ULFs. Even with just the 3 subs between you, you will only pay $133 freight (the pallet freight is capped at $400) for the Cap 2400ULF. The regular freight for the Cap 2400ULF is $250 to West Coast, so you do save some $$$ there. Yes, you will be over your budget by $132; however, the Cap 2400 is just another step above the subs in your list: it has more output and extends deeper. Of course you don't have to order a Cap 2400ULF with the group buy, a Cap 1400 will do but the savings in shipping is only about $50.
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post #5 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modesto66 View Post
Top end of budget is $2500.


These are the subwoofers that I have considered, but started to worry that many could overpower the room. I can fit one large subwoofer under a large side table sandwiched between two sofas. If I go with two subwoofers I need to downsize a little since the second one would be unhidden. The door opening is 7" x 36" As you can see I'm all over the map and seem to be frozen in making a choice.


1) Monoprice Monolith 15"
2) XTZ 3 x 12 (like because it would be the same brand as speakers)
3) JTR Cap 1400
4) Rythmik FV15 HP (intrigued by Rythmik since I live in the Houston area and they are located in Austin).
5) HSU VTF-15 H MK2
6) Rythmik LVX12 (2)
7) Monoprice 12 (2)
8) HSU ULS 15 MK2 (2)
7) or add another RSL speedwoofer to the one that I have. I have no fault with the subwoofer that I have, but it is my first and only experience with a subwoofer.
That's a good list. If you want one ultimate single sub, Chucky's suggestion is also a good one. If it's too much, think of the Rythmik FV18 as well. For two subs, I think the Rythmik LVX12 would actually be sufficient for what you want (especially coming from the Speedwoofer). Other options would just be additional overhead for you. Then you must decide on at what point does additional overhead just become more than you would ever need to consider. Why are you thinking of the ULS-15 on the Hsu and not the VTF-3 Mk 5? Everything else on your list is ported, so the sealed ULS seems kind of an outlier there. A couple of the VTF3 (or PSA 15v, which is about the same physical size as the Monolith 12) would be outstanding for you.

As I said going duals is the end goal, typically, but sometimes that is not feasible for people. I detect hesitation in your comments on committing to duals. Duals smooth response in your room and help to eliminates nulls in the space so there is a reason to go that route. What type of constraints are you looking at for that setup?

As far as which of those on your list to choose and of these others suggested - it will just come down to your preference. Not really a wrong answer on your first 7, just how much overhead do you want and do you want to commit to duals immediately, and how much of that $2500 budget you want to spend. Beyond that, do the research on the companies - service, warranty, aesthetics, form factor, are there features that some subs provide that are intriguing to you that others do not have.

Last edited by bargugl; 04-30-2018 at 11:49 AM.
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post #6 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 11:51 AM
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depends on taste, i have pb16 in 20x11 room, i like when my light fixtures rattle and my door opens on its own
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post #7 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
None of the above.

Let's see...

If you can accommodate a XTZ 3 x 12 ( 40" H x 21.1" W x 22" D ), there is no reason you can't fit a JTR Captivator 2400ULF ( 41″ H x 20.5″ W x 22.5″ D )...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...group-buy.html

toddct in the Houston area is organizing a JTR group buy in which 4 subs shipped to the same address will get free shipping. He already ordered 2 Cap 2400ULFs. Even with just the 3 subs between you, you will only pay $133 freight (the pallet freight is capped at $400) for the Cap 2400ULF. The regular freight for the Cap 2400ULF is $250 to West Coast, so you do save some $$$ there. Yes, you will be over your budget by $132; however, the Cap 2400 is just another step above the subs in your list: it has more output and extends deeper. Of course you don't have to order a Cap 2400ULF with the group buy, a Cap 1400 will do but the savings in shipping is only about $50.
Thanks for the bump chucky7!

@modesto66 , I'd be more than happy for you to throw 1 or 2 JTR's on my pallet! The more.....the merrier.

Todd
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post #8 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 11:58 AM
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For $2,600 you can get 2 of the Monoprice Monolith 15's. That would give you both duals and a great deal of headroom. Should hold you for next 20 years.
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post #9 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 12:03 PM
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The OP can only accommodate one large sub under under a large side table sandwiched between two sofas, or two smaller subs. This is the reason he can't do 2 large 18" or 15" subs.

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post #10 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 12:22 PM
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OK since dual 15's are a no-go, I like the Power Sound Audio S3601 for $1999.99. Opposing 18's, 1700 watt amp, 137 pounds.

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post #11 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The OP can only accommodate one large sub under under a large side table sandwiched between two sofas, or two smaller subs. This is the reason he can't do 2 large 18" or 15" subs.
If you are sliding it under a large table, Jeff can probably make the 2400 in it's original dimensions. It's basically the same size with the largest dimension being the depth, height and width are roughly 22in high 20 ish inches wide. Low boy and tall boy pictured.

Is this a biased and self-serving post............yes.......yes it is.

Todd
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post #12 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modesto66 View Post
Top end of budget is $2500.


These are the subwoofers that I have considered, but started to worry that many could overpower the room. I can fit one large subwoofer under a large side table sandwiched between two sofas. If I go with two subwoofers I need to downsize a little since the second one would be unhidden. The door opening is 7" x 36" As you can see I'm all over the map and seem to be frozen in making a choice.


1) Monoprice Monolith 15"
2) XTZ 3 x 12 (like because it would be the same brand as speakers)
3) JTR Cap 1400
4) Rythmik FV15 HP (intrigued by Rythmik since I live in the Houston area and they are located in Austin).
5) HSU VTF-15 H MK2
6) Rythmik LVX12 (2)
7) Monoprice 12 (2)
8) HSU ULS 15 MK2 (2)
7) or add another RSL speedwoofer to the one that I have. I have no fault with the subwoofer that I have, but it is my first and only experience with a subwoofer.
Hi,

In a room size of ~2200^3, with limited placement options, I think that my two top choices would be dual Monolith 15's or dual FV15HP's (particularly given your location in Houston). I liked Chucky's suggestion of the Cap 2400. The price to output ratio is very high on that sub. But, it isn't just placement limitations that might prevent you from being able to get another one. It is also price. A second one will be even more expensive without a group buy. And, I really think that there are advantages to having dual subs.

The room size is an important factor in determining how much output someone will need, but it isn't the most important one, in my opinion. Of even greater importance is just how loudly someone likes to listen, just how hard he likes to push the bass frequencies when he does it, and whether there are specific frequencies that he really wants to emphasize. The good news is that in a 2200^3 room, you will be getting pretty good low-frequency room gain, below about 25Hz. That makes the extreme low-frequency output of a Cap 2400 less important, in my opinion. And, coming from a single 10" Speedwoofer, the subs I mentioned as my preferred choices will absolutely light you up, anyway.

So, in this particular case, I would recommend dual M 15's or dual FV15HP's. It might be a different recommendation if you were already coming from a single good 12" or 15" ported sub, and just weren't getting enough low-frequency SPL. But, you really don't know that you will need an inordinate amount of low-bass SPL in your room. That's why you started the thread, and that's why you said that you might even consider getting another Speedwoofer.

I would go as big as I could afford, but I wouldn't go all the way to a Cap 1400 or an FV18. What I would do is to go with dual subs, and the two I mentioned could be an excellent compromise between plenty of power, without being absolute overkill for your room and specific listening requirements.

Regards,
Mike
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post #13 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 03:40 PM
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If you can move freely about your home theater, you might not have enough subwoofer.
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post #14 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 03:47 PM
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Like chucky, I'd also vote for 2400. And that should tell you something, as neither chucky7 nor I own the 2400.

You could never have "too much subwoofer" in the room, especially for movies. What you want is the cleanest (less distortion) and deepest (more extension) bass possible, and that, the 2400 would give you. Once subwoofer is in system, you adjust gain to your taste. BTW, IMHO, music is different, where the subjective evaluation is much more important. But that's a whole other topic altogether, and JTR with their "clean" (subjectively very little "overhang") sound is not a bad choice either.

At your perfect-for-2400 budget and for movies, JTR 2400 is among THE greatest choices available on the market nowadays. It's a choice that is extremely unlikely to give you regret. Just MHO - best of luck and hopes this helps.

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post #15 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 04:29 PM
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I strongly recommend dual subs, if you have the placement flexibility. I agree with everything @mthomas47 said and his recommendation.
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post #16 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modesto66 View Post
Top end of budget is $2500.


These are the subwoofers that I have considered, but started to worry that many could overpower the room. I can fit one large subwoofer under a large side table sandwiched between two sofas. If I go with two subwoofers I need to downsize a little since the second one would be unhidden. The door opening is 7" x 36" As you can see I'm all over the map and seem to be frozen in making a choice.


1) Monoprice Monolith 15"
2) XTZ 3 x 12 (like because it would be the same brand as speakers)
3) JTR Cap 1400
4) Rythmik FV15 HP (intrigued by Rythmik since I live in the Houston area and they are located in Austin).
5) HSU VTF-15 H MK2
6) Rythmik LVX12 (2)
7) Monoprice 12 (2)
8) HSU ULS 15 MK2 (2)
7) or add another RSL speedwoofer to the one that I have. I have no fault with the subwoofer that I have, but it is my first and only experience with a subwoofer.
Were you aware than XTZ has 30% off of everything right now? (30OFF coupon code). TheY have also lowered their list prices so I would jump on a Sub 3x12 or two ASAP!

https://www.xtzsound.us/shop/us/spec...t-studio-black

It looks like I missed out on getting a Sub 1x12 for an obscenely low price!

The Sub 3x12 was reviewed by @JimWilson and @Ricci but this was before they turned to Claridy for amplification and THX certification. It should be even much better behaved with lower distortion now. The sub 3x12 has 3x500W modules. This is an incredible bargain. TAKE ADVANTAGE!
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post #17 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Were you aware than XTZ has 30% off of everything right now? (30OFF coupon code). TheY have also lowered their list prices so I would jump on a Sub 3x12 or two ASAP!

https://www.xtzsound.us/shop/us/spec...t-studio-black

It looks like I missed out on getting a Sub 1x12 for an obscenely low price!

The Sub 3x12 was reviewed by @JimWilson and @Ricci but this was before they turned to Claridy for amplification and THX certification. It should be even much better behaved with lower distortion now. The sub 3x12 has 3x500W modules. This is an incredible bargain. TAKE ADVANTAGE!
I don't know if anyone from AVS scored a deal but both the Sub 1x12 and 3x12 are now sold out on the US store.
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post #18 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Were you aware than XTZ has 30% off of everything right now? (30OFF coupon code). TheY have also lowered their list prices so I would jump on a Sub 3x12 or two ASAP!

https://www.xtzsound.us/shop/us/spec...t-studio-black

It looks like I missed out on getting a Sub 1x12 for an obscenely low price!

The Sub 3x12 was reviewed by @JimWilson and @Ricci but this was before they turned to Claridy for amplification and THX certification. It should be even much better behaved with lower distortion now. The sub 3x12 has 3x500W modules. This is an incredible bargain. TAKE ADVANTAGE!
I just went to the US store.

It looks like the Sub 3x12 is currently on sale for $1499 and no other discount apply. Therefore. $1499 IS the sale price.

Still, this sub is a JTR Cap 1400 quality sub at $1499.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #19 of 32 Old 04-30-2018, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I just went to the US store.

It looks like the Sub 3x12 is currently on sale for $1499 and no other discount apply. Therefore. $1499 IS the sale price.
It's not in stock, it's purchaseable as backorder only. If I was in the market like the OP, I would call them.
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post #20 of 32 Old 05-01-2018, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
It's not in stock, it's purchaseable as backorder only. If I was in the market like the OP, I would call them.
It appears the 3X12 is in stock for $1499, but it says "demo." The 1X12 is also available for $599 listed as demo, but does appear to be oos (the little Q-Bert cubes are yellow). I believe the 3X12 is normally $2500, so 30% off that makes it $1750. So the demo model appears to take and additional $250 off the sale price. I wonder what exactly you get with a demo? Is that how they classify returned items?

EDIT: If I had any place to put it I would snag the 3X12.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, MDR-V6, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31, XB22. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4. TB Stealth300. LG FH6, RK8, RK7, PK5, PH4. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).

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post #21 of 32 Old 05-01-2018, 06:17 AM
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The Sub3X12 is indeed potent, and at $1499 it's quite a good deal as well. If they restock and sell them again for that price it's definitely one to consider.

 
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post #22 of 32 Old 05-01-2018, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Everyone -


Thank you for the recommendations. I caught the sale as well but was too late. Just as well, I re-measured and don't think I can get that beast into the corner under a table for my subwoofer location.
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post #23 of 32 Old 05-01-2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by modesto66 View Post
Everyone -

Thank you for the recommendations. I caught the sale as well but was too late. Just as well, I re-measured and don't think I can get that beast into the corner under a table for my subwoofer location.
Maybe you should confirm the size of the sub that you can accommodate so that I can stop recommending monster subs?
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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Interestingly, the XTZ's wonky website removes stock available when it's in somebody's cart. I had the 3X12 in my cart and it shows unavailable. Took it out of my cart and it shows available. Last one, so I just removed it from my cart if anybody wants to snag it for $1499. I would like to, but am already overrun with subs as it is.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, MDR-V6, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31, XB22. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4. TB Stealth300. LG FH6, RK8, RK7, PK5, PH4. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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post #25 of 32 Old 05-01-2018, 02:57 PM
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I would snag that 3x12 in a heartbeat if I was in the US.....just because.

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post #26 of 32 Old 05-01-2018, 03:01 PM
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I would snag that 3x12 in a heartbeat if I was in the US.....just because.
I just checked the site again and the Q-Bert cubes are back to yellow. Looks like they are all gone.......or that last one is sitting in somebody's cart now.


EDIT: Looks like as of 2:17AM CST the 3X12 and 1X12 demo are both available again. Appears that there are two of each available.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, MDR-V6, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31, XB22. Sennheiser HD58X, HD4.50, PC37X. SIVGA SV004. HyperX Cloud PS4. TB Stealth300. LG FH6, RK8, RK7, PK5, PH4. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).

Last edited by MIX_MASTER_ICE; 05-02-2018 at 12:17 AM.
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post #27 of 32 Old 05-03-2018, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by modesto66 View Post
Top end of budget is $2500.


These are the subwoofers that I have considered, but started to worry that many could overpower the room. I can fit one large subwoofer under a large side table sandwiched between two sofas. If I go with two subwoofers I need to downsize a little since the second one would be unhidden. The door opening is 7" x 36" As you can see I'm all over the map and seem to be frozen in making a choice.


1) Monoprice Monolith 15"
2) XTZ 3 x 12 (like because it would be the same brand as speakers)
3) JTR Cap 1400
4) Rythmik FV15 HP (intrigued by Rythmik since I live in the Houston area and they are located in Austin).
5) HSU VTF-15 H MK2
6) Rythmik LVX12 (2)
7) Monoprice 12 (2)
8) HSU ULS 15 MK2 (2)
7) or add another RSL speedwoofer to the one that I have. I have no fault with the subwoofer that I have, but it is my first and only experience with a subwoofer.
With that budget my top 4 choices would be:

Monolith 15" THX (duals)
Outlaw Ultra X-13 (duals)
HSU VTF-15H MK2 (duals)
Rythmik FV15HP (duals)

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Last edited by blake18; 05-04-2018 at 04:18 PM.
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post #28 of 32 Old 05-04-2018, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by blake18 View Post
With that budget my top 3 choices would be:

Monolith 15" THX (duals)
Outlaw Ultra X-13 (duals)
HSU VTF-15H MK2 (duals)
Rythmik FV15HP (duals)
That’s 4 choices.

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post #29 of 32 Old 05-04-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post
With that budget my top 3 choices would be:

Monolith 15" THX (duals)
Outlaw Ultra X-13 (duals)
HSU VTF-15H MK2 (duals)
Rythmik FV15HP (duals)
That’s 4 choices. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Oops, typo! 😛

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post #30 of 32 Old 05-04-2018, 04:57 PM
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That’s 4 choices.
Since the Monolith has almost no info on it at this point was it perhaps a Freudian slip?

 
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