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post #1 of 8 Old 05-19-2018, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Dual Sub Issue

So, I just moved to a new home. This is a home that is being paid for by my company so I didn't really get any say in the matter and have to work with what I got. The room size is quite nice but having a whole wall of windows does suck. I'm installing sound curtains on them. But anyway, my dual subs are not sounding great in this environment and so I'm hoping to get a little help.

I understand doing a sub crawl is important but when one sub, the SVS PB16Ultra weighs nearly 200 pounds and doesn't roll at all, doing a crawl is problematic. Plus, I only have but so much space to put these subs. I have attached a blueprint layout that approximates my room. Don't pay any attention to the size measurements, I am not sure how exact that is but it gives you all an idea.

My main issue is bass waves getting stuck in the upper right hand corner, as marked on the layout. It sounds, what I would say, the way I want it to sound in my MLP. But when I move to my MLP, I can barely hear some of the bass frequencies. It's not like I can't hear anything but it is really lacking in punch. I guess some frequencies are getting canceled out. What's more, when I turn the AVR to just play one sub, the frequencies get louder, when I switch back to both subs, it gets quieter. So, I am guessing that they are canceling each other out. I have messed around with the phase on the PB16Ultra and that helps some. I did run the auto EQ mic, (I have the Yamaha a3050) and it set my subs much louder than it did at my previous home. So I am guessing that there is something funky going on with my MLP. Seems more bass is going to the rest of the home than in my living room.

One question I have is, I have room behind my couch on the left hand side. Is it wrong to have two subs on the same side of the room? Also, you'll notice where my main speakers are. I could move a sub to the right hand side of the TV but that would mean the speakers would protrude out pretty far into the room, so that is not ideal.

Anyway, I am just wondering what I should do. If there is anything with the auto EQ I could do better. If moving the PC13Ultra to the left side behind couch would be okay. Thanks for any help.
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7.2.4 Atmos Setup via a Yamaha a3050 receiver and two external amps: Emotiva 2 channel amp and a Parasound amp. Sony 940e for my TV. SVS Ultra 16 and SVS 13.5 for my subs. Klipsch for my LCR. JBL and Panasonic for my Surrounds. Focal for my on ceiling Atmos speakers. PS4 and Xbox One S for my consoles. Oppo 203 for my Blu Ray/UHD player.
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post #2 of 8 Old 05-19-2018, 11:09 AM
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Have you tried reversing the phase on the subwoofer closest to you to 180?

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post #3 of 8 Old 05-19-2018, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czickefoose View Post
So, I just moved to a new home. This is a home that is being paid for by my company so I didn't really get any say in the matter and have to work with what I got. The room size is quite nice but having a whole wall of windows does suck. I'm installing sound curtains on them. But anyway, my dual subs are not sounding great in this environment and so I'm hoping to get a little help.

I understand doing a sub crawl is important but when one sub, the SVS PB16Ultra weighs nearly 200 pounds and doesn't roll at all, doing a crawl is problematic. Plus, I only have but so much space to put these subs. I have attached a blueprint layout that approximates my room. Don't pay any attention to the size measurements, I am not sure how exact that is but it gives you all an idea.

My main issue is bass waves getting stuck in the upper right hand corner, as marked on the layout. It sounds, what I would say, the way I want it to sound in my MLP. But when I move to my MLP, I can barely hear some of the bass frequencies. It's not like I can't hear anything but it is really lacking in punch. I guess some frequencies are getting canceled out. What's more, when I turn the AVR to just play one sub, the frequencies get louder, when I switch back to both subs, it gets quieter. So, I am guessing that they are canceling each other out. I have messed around with the phase on the PB16Ultra and that helps some. I did run the auto EQ mic, (I have the Yamaha a3050) and it set my subs much louder than it did at my previous home. So I am guessing that there is something funky going on with my MLP. Seems more bass is going to the rest of the home than in my living room.

One question I have is, I have room behind my couch on the left hand side. Is it wrong to have two subs on the same side of the room? Also, you'll notice where my main speakers are. I could move a sub to the right hand side of the TV but that would mean the speakers would protrude out pretty far into the room, so that is not ideal.

Anyway, I am just wondering what I should do. If there is anything with the auto EQ I could do better. If moving the PC13Ultra to the left side behind couch would be okay. Thanks for any help.

You can use furniture sliders for the PB16.



Put the PC13U in the main listening position and do the sub crawl. Put the PB16 where that works out to be and hear how it sounds at the MLP. If good put the PC13 in the next best spot and hear how it sounds at the MLP, by itself. If good then run them both and hear how it sounds. Also, different orientations for the PB16 might make a difference. Facing my front firing SC8000 into the wall made a very noticeable difference.



Next up would be to run REW and/or a miniDSP.
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post #4 of 8 Old 05-19-2018, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czickefoose View Post
So, I just moved to a new home. This is a home that is being paid for by my company so I didn't really get any say in the matter and have to work with what I got. The room size is quite nice but having a whole wall of windows does suck. I'm installing sound curtains on them. But anyway, my dual subs are not sounding great in this environment and so I'm hoping to get a little help.

I understand doing a sub crawl is important but when one sub, the SVS PB16Ultra weighs nearly 200 pounds and doesn't roll at all, doing a crawl is problematic. Plus, I only have but so much space to put these subs. I have attached a blueprint layout that approximates my room. Don't pay any attention to the size measurements, I am not sure how exact that is but it gives you all an idea.

My main issue is bass waves getting stuck in the upper right hand corner, as marked on the layout. It sounds, what I would say, the way I want it to sound in my MLP. But when I move to my MLP, I can barely hear some of the bass frequencies. It's not like I can't hear anything but it is really lacking in punch. I guess some frequencies are getting canceled out. What's more, when I turn the AVR to just play one sub, the frequencies get louder, when I switch back to both subs, it gets quieter. So, I am guessing that they are canceling each other out. I have messed around with the phase on the PB16Ultra and that helps some. I did run the auto EQ mic, (I have the Yamaha a3050) and it set my subs much louder than it did at my previous home. So I am guessing that there is something funky going on with my MLP. Seems more bass is going to the rest of the home than in my living room.

One question I have is, I have room behind my couch on the left hand side. Is it wrong to have two subs on the same side of the room? Also, you'll notice where my main speakers are. I could move a sub to the right hand side of the TV but that would mean the speakers would protrude out pretty far into the room, so that is not ideal.

Anyway, I am just wondering what I should do. If there is anything with the auto EQ I could do better. If moving the PC13Ultra to the left side behind couch would be okay. Thanks for any help.

You can use furniture sliders for the PB16.



Put the PC13U in the main listening position and do the sub crawl. Put the PB16 where that works out to be and hear how it sounds at the MLP. If good put the PC13 in the next best spot and hear how it sounds at the MLP, by itself. If good then run them both and hear how it sounds. Also, different orientations for the PB16 might make a difference. Facing my front firing SC8000 into the wall made a very noticeable difference.



Next up would be to run REW and/or a miniDSP.
Right, I bought the REW before I moved and haven't had time to do it, been very busy. But what I don't understand is what if the sub crawl shows the middle of the room the best location? I've never understood that. And my issue is I have very few places I could put it, really only a couple. But I will try reversing the phase and perhaps changing its orientation. So, unfortunately, the amp went bad on my PB16 and SVS is sending me a new amp. So I will have to wait on that. Anyway, thanks guys!

7.2.4 Atmos Setup via a Yamaha a3050 receiver and two external amps: Emotiva 2 channel amp and a Parasound amp. Sony 940e for my TV. SVS Ultra 16 and SVS 13.5 for my subs. Klipsch for my LCR. JBL and Panasonic for my Surrounds. Focal for my on ceiling Atmos speakers. PS4 and Xbox One S for my consoles. Oppo 203 for my Blu Ray/UHD player.
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post #5 of 8 Old 05-21-2018, 05:14 AM
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Do you have hardwood floors throughout? If so do you have area rugs as well? Do you have artwork or something else on the walls to absorb refection? is your sub corner loaded? Window treatment will definitely help. I have a condo similar to what you have, all huge windows 80" h x 50" W with a huge sliding glass door.
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post #6 of 8 Old 05-25-2018, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you have hardwood floors throughout? If so do you have area rugs as well? Do you have artwork or something else on the walls to absorb refection? is your sub corner loaded? Window treatment will definitely help. I have a condo similar to what you have, all huge windows 80" h x 50" W with a huge sliding glass door.
Haha, yes to everything you said. I have some family photos I made into canvases and loaded sound dampener into them, so now they are sound panels. But... much less walls to hang them on but I will find some where beneficial for them. What just made the biggest difference is i moved the PC13ultra to the left corner as noted in my blueprint. That made a WORLD of difference. The bass doesn't get trapped in the other room. Since my PB16 is still out of commision until the new amp arrives, I am not sure if I will keep it there or move it to the right of the TV. I don't think it would be wise to put both subs on the left side. I'll do a sub crawl and see how it goes.

7.2.4 Atmos Setup via a Yamaha a3050 receiver and two external amps: Emotiva 2 channel amp and a Parasound amp. Sony 940e for my TV. SVS Ultra 16 and SVS 13.5 for my subs. Klipsch for my LCR. JBL and Panasonic for my Surrounds. Focal for my on ceiling Atmos speakers. PS4 and Xbox One S for my consoles. Oppo 203 for my Blu Ray/UHD player.
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post #7 of 8 Old 05-25-2018, 01:45 PM
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If the bass gets quieter when you turn on the second sub, the subs are out of phase and causing cancellations in the low frequencies. This points to improper time-alignment.

Does your AVR have the ability to set separate distances for each sub? If so, what did YPAO come up with for those distances?

Putting both subs on one side a room...especially when the other side is wide open, as yours is...can work out well for a flatter frequency response across a wider area. However, depending on crossover settings and how hot you like to run your subs, you may run into localization issues (i.e. the room feels bass "heavy" on one side).
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post #8 of 8 Old 05-29-2018, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
If the bass gets quieter when you turn on the second sub, the subs are out of phase and causing cancellations in the low frequencies. This points to improper time-alignment.

Does your AVR have the ability to set separate distances for each sub? If so, what did YPAO come up with for those distances?

Putting both subs on one side a room...especially when the other side is wide open, as yours is...can work out well for a flatter frequency response across a wider area. However, depending on crossover settings and how hot you like to run your subs, you may run into localization issues (i.e. the room feels bass "heavy" on one side).

That's what I really thought. That the subs were out of phase. I played around with the phase on the PB16 a lot and some on the PC13. 137 phase sounded louder at 30hz and softer at 136phase. Super weird how one degree made a huge difference. But, there were still issues at other hertz. It was like one phase wouldn't fix all of it. So... now I have both working and on one side of the room. HUGE difference. The bass doesn't get trapped in the open room side corner (my dining room). So, while having both on one side isn't the best location, it seems to work for me. Oh and the AVR does indeed do independent distances. One was set at 11.3ft (pb16) and the other 13ft. So I think the distance was a little off. But anyway, it is a lot better now.

7.2.4 Atmos Setup via a Yamaha a3050 receiver and two external amps: Emotiva 2 channel amp and a Parasound amp. Sony 940e for my TV. SVS Ultra 16 and SVS 13.5 for my subs. Klipsch for my LCR. JBL and Panasonic for my Surrounds. Focal for my on ceiling Atmos speakers. PS4 and Xbox One S for my consoles. Oppo 203 for my Blu Ray/UHD player.
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