Pressurizing my chest cavity... for free? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 06-06-2018, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Wink Pressurizing my chest cavity... for free?

Hello,

I'm looking for ways to make my chest quake and shake more during movies with great LFE tracks. But at the moment I'd rather not spend any money. So I'm looking for ways to tweak my system:

Fronts: JBL L5
Rears: JBL L1
Center: JBL LC2
Front Sub: SVS SB-1000
Rear sub: MartinLogan Dynamo 300 (The rear sub is next to my couch and is there to help fill out the mid bass from the rear speakers. I checked with SVS and made sure my setup and settings were optimal given that I have two different subwoofers.)
Receiver: Denon X2300W

Does anyone have any ideas? I was thinking that switching the front and rear subs so the more powerful bass is next to my seat.
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post #2 of 19 Old 06-06-2018, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk5987 View Post
Hello,



I'm looking for ways to make my chest quake and shake more during movies with great LFE tracks. But at the moment I'd rather not spend any money. So I'm looking for ways to tweak my system:



Fronts: JBL L5

Rears: JBL L1

Center: JBL LC2

Front Sub: SVS SB-1000

Rear sub: MartinLogan Dynamo 300 (The rear sub is next to my couch and is there to help fill out the mid bass from the rear speakers. I checked with SVS and made sure my setup and settings were optimal given that I have two different subwoofers.)

Receiver: Denon X2300W



Does anyone have any ideas? I was thinking that switching the front and rear subs so the more powerful bass is next to my seat.


Get some transducers. Crowsons are a good brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #3 of 19 Old 06-06-2018, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sk5987 View Post
Does anyone have any ideas? I was thinking that switching the front and rear subs so the more powerful bass is next to my seat.
Its generally recommended to put your weaker sub near field to compensate for the lesser capability.


REW is free and will help you see what is going on in your room. Maybe just experimenting with placement will help improve the response your looking for in the mid bass region where the chest slam seems come from.


A Umik1 will set you back about $100 though.
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post #4 of 19 Old 06-06-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sk5987 View Post

Does anyone have any ideas?
Put the ML into a front facing baby carrier and face the driver towards your chest. Once you're seated it should be pretty comfortable.

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post #5 of 19 Old 06-07-2018, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post
Its generally recommended to put your weaker sub near field to compensate for the lesser capability.
I disagree with this completely. Move your most powerful subs to as close to you as possible. Cross them over as high as you are comfortable with(I do mine at 150hz). This will give you the most tactile feeling. Your subs up front will still smooth things out will getting the most out of the biggest subs close to you.
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post #6 of 19 Old 06-07-2018, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylon View Post
I disagree with this completely. Move your most powerful subs to as close to you as possible. Cross them over as high as you are comfortable with(I do mine at 150hz). This will give you the most tactile feeling. Your subs up front will still smooth things out will getting the most out of the biggest subs close to you.
You disagree that putting a weaker sub closer to the MLP is what is generally recommended?


Or do you acknowledge that is generally recommended and just disagree with this prevailing advice.

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post #7 of 19 Old 06-07-2018, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk5987 View Post
Hello,

I'm looking for ways to make my chest quake and shake more during movies with great LFE tracks. But at the moment I'd rather not spend any money. So I'm looking for ways to tweak my system:

Fronts: JBL L5
Rears: JBL L1
Center: JBL LC2
Front Sub: SVS SB-1000
Rear sub: MartinLogan Dynamo 300 (The rear sub is next to my couch and is there to help fill out the mid bass from the rear speakers. I checked with SVS and made sure my setup and settings were optimal given that I have two different subwoofers.)
Receiver: Denon X2300W

Does anyone have any ideas? I was thinking that switching the front and rear subs so the more powerful bass is next to my seat.

Hi,

You have already gotten good advice in both directions. This is one of those times that you will just have to experiment to discover what works best for your specific goals. Here are some things to consider.

First, the reason that weaker subs are typically placed nearer a listening position is to make it easier to equalize the SPL with a more powerful sub. That way, you can push both subs a little harder without having the weaker sub make bad sounds from being pushed beyond its capabilities. If you are using automated room EQ, such as Audyssey, you will also get more benefit from that room EQ if your weaker subwoofer doesn't roll-off too much sooner than your stronger sub does. Audyssey will stop EQing when the combined response of your subs rolls-off by 3db.

Putting a stronger sub closer to your listening position, and a weaker one further away, though, might help the stronger sub to be even more noticeable, so it's certainly something that you can try. Perhaps you could even move both subs closer to your couch, and put one directly behind your listening position. Aside from the issues listed in the first paragraph, putting the stronger sub closer to your listening position may make it easier for you to localize where the bass is coming from, instead of having it come from everywhere. That may or may not be a problem for you, which is why some experimentation may help you to decide what you like better.

The second issue involves how you are implementing your crossovers. If you are using at least 80Hz crossovers, and boosting your subs, that should help with mid-bass tactile sensations--chest punch. You can try raising the crossovers a little higher to see if you get any benefit from that, but as you do, localization may become more of a problem. So, it's a balancing act. I assume that you are using DEQ. If you want to try turning it off (and increasing your sub boost manually to compensate) you can use the bass tone control to add some bass to your front speakers. They should be pretty capable in the mid-bass range, and that could also conceivably add to your chest punch.

Ultimately, I suspect that you may be a little underpowered for what you want from your subs. Sealed subs do not typically produce as much tactile energy as ported subs do, and those are not very powerful sealed subs. When you are in a better position to spend some money, you may want to consider upgrading to something more powerful, and perhaps to ported subs. You could also stay with sealed subs and add something like a Behringer B1200D as a mid-bass module. It is bandwidth-limited to emphasize mid-bass frequencies, and putting one of those directly behind your couch would definitely increase your chest punch sensations.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 06-07-2018 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #8 of 19 Old 06-07-2018, 08:11 AM
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How big is your room? Is it on a concrete slab?
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post #9 of 19 Old 06-07-2018, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Get some transducers. Crowsons are a good brand.


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Completley agree with you. Crowson is a very good brand but a little pricey, there are some cheaper options out there too.
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post #10 of 19 Old 06-07-2018, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Put the ML into a front facing baby carrier and face the driver towards your chest. Once you're seated it should be pretty comfortable.
This is the best thing I've heard all day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

You have already gotten good advice in both directions. This is one of those times that you will just have to experiment to discover what works best for your specific goals. Here are some things to consider.

First, the reason that weaker subs are typically placed nearer a listening position is to make it easier to equalize the SPL with a more powerful sub. That way, you can push both subs a little harder without having the weaker sub make bad sounds from being pushed beyond its capabilities. If you are using automated room EQ, such as Audyssey, you will also get more benefit from that room EQ if your weaker subwoofer doesn't roll-off too much sooner than your stronger sub does. Audyssey will stop EQing when the combined response of your subs rolls-off by 3db.

Putting a stronger sub closer to your listening position, and a weaker one further away, though, might help the stronger sub to be even more noticeable, so it's certainly something that you can try. Perhaps you could even move both subs closer to your couch, and put one directly behind your listening position. Aside from the issues listed in the first paragraph, putting the stronger sub closer to your listening position may make it easier for you to localize where the bass is coming from, instead of having it come from everywhere. That may or may not be a problem for you, which is why some experimentation may help you to decide what you like better.

The second issue involves how you are implementing your crossovers. If you are using at least 80Hz crossovers, and boosting your subs, that should help with mid-bass tactile sensations--chest punch. You can try raising the crossovers a little higher to see if you get any benefit from that, but as you do, localization may become more of a problem. So, it's a balancing act. I assume that you are using DEQ. If you want to try turning it off (and increasing your sub boost manually to compensate) you can use the bass tone control to add some bass to your front speakers. They should be pretty capable in the mid-bass range, and that could also conceivably add to your chest punch.

Ultimately, I suspect that you may be a little underpowered for what you want from your subs. Sealed subs do not typically produce as much tactile energy as ported subs do, and those are not very powerful sealed subs. When you are in a better position to spend some money, you may want to consider upgrading to something more powerful, and perhaps to ported subs. You could also stay with sealed subs and add something like a Behringer B1200D as a mid-bass module. It is bandwidth-limited to emphasize mid-bass frequencies, and putting one of those directly behind your couch would definitely increase your chest punch sensations.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
Thanks so much for the advice, Mike.

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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
How big is your room? Is it on a concrete slab?
It's an apartment so the home theater is in the same room as the kitchen, so about 40Lx20Wx10H. But half of that is kitchen.
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post #11 of 19 Old 06-12-2018, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk5987 View Post

Does anyone have any ideas?
Put the ML into a front facing baby carrier and face the driver towards your chest. Once you're seated it should be pretty comfortable. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
Wow...so glad I stumbled upon this post days later. I was literally laughing out loud until I had tears in my eyes. It was just one of those long rough days at work, I’m exhausted and drop on the couch and read this gem...couldn’t contain myself. Having carried 4 kids around in one of those carriers the visual was tangible. Thanks @Kini62
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post #12 of 19 Old 06-14-2018, 09:24 AM
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Even then you may not feel much thump from the ML dynamo...I owned the Dynamo 500 and a "dynamo" it was not!

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post #13 of 19 Old 06-14-2018, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylon View Post
I disagree with this completely. Move your most powerful subs to as close to you as possible. Cross them over as high as you are comfortable with(I do mine at 150hz). .
150Hz from your sub is approaching Bose level. Male human voices can get down to around 85Hz according to Wikipedia. 150Hz would definitely include a significant amount of vocal content.

I have no dispute on your idea of where to place subs, but 150Hz crossover is unreasonable for quality. Even 120Hz (for very small satellite speakers) is pushing it in terms of quality.
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post #14 of 19 Old 06-14-2018, 11:56 PM
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Completley agree with you. Crowson is a very good brand but a little pricey, there are some cheaper options out there too.
Hello... Crowson's are very good... a buddy of mine has them at his place......

I chose to make my own using this video (NOT my video) but I did make a shaker like this and attached it to my couch.... and it works GREAT.....

I used a $10 buyout woofer from Parts express... is the Crowson better? YEP..... is it $900 better.... NOPE.....


YMMV

Juju
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post #15 of 19 Old 06-15-2018, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk5987 View Post
Hello,

I'm looking for ways to make my chest quake and shake more during movies with great LFE tracks. But at the moment I'd rather not spend any money. So I'm looking for ways to tweak my system:

Fronts: JBL L5
Rears: JBL L1
Center: JBL LC2
Front Sub: SVS SB-1000
Rear sub: MartinLogan Dynamo 300 (The rear sub is next to my couch and is there to help fill out the mid bass from the rear speakers. I checked with SVS and made sure my setup and settings were optimal given that I have two different subwoofers.)
Receiver: Denon X2300W

Does anyone have any ideas? I was thinking that switching the front and rear subs so the more powerful bass is next to my seat.
Stand next to an Alien pod, allow implantation, wait a few days. Viola!
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post #16 of 19 Old 06-15-2018, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Put the ML into a front facing baby carrier and face the driver towards your chest. Once you're seated it should be pretty comfortable.
hahahaha, Make a hat out of the dynamo for good measure...

Hey its free.

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post #17 of 19 Old 06-17-2018, 02:18 PM
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No room FR and searching for mid bass slam? Groping in the dark without measurements.

Btw, mid bass slam is not in the sub territory. Measure your speakers' response in your room.

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post #18 of 19 Old 06-20-2018, 06:32 PM
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Free?
The best thing you can do is sell all of your speakers and subs and visit the DIY section.
With the exception of maybe a JTR OS... Retail/ID subs just don't have enough horses to reach the necessary db's that you are seeking. (At least not without spending a zillion dollars.)

Chest-Slam is in the 40-300hz region.

Concerts and EDM festivals and IMAX's typically uses subwoofers like this:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ered-subwoofer
and similar LCR's to match. (and not just 1 but like 50+ of them...)

This Professional JBL subwofer too can easily be eclipsed by going with DIY Kits on everything...
Until you make the switch, enjoy suffering with Retail/ID bass.

Your system is WAY undersized for a room of that cuft. You don't need a 10", you need at least quad 18's... and DIY is the cheapest way to get there without loss of SQ or THD.
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post #19 of 19 Old 07-21-2018, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Is it on a concrete slab?
How does concrete slab affect mid bass slam?
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