Second Sub Needed for HT. Suggestions Please !! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 07-18-2018, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Second Sub Needed for HT. Suggestions Please !!

Hi Guys,
Looking for a second sub for my HT. Been reading the forum now for a while and have gotten the Bass Fever Yes I know, I know, I should have ran when I had the chance but I stuck around and here I am now. Running some RSL speakers with a Yamaha RX-V483BL and a Klipsch R-112sw. Room opens up to a total space of 19 x 26 x 7...At the moment the sub is near fielded and right next to the MLP. It sounds decent but I guess a little more bass won't hurt nobody. I know that around here Klipsch is not the most talked sub but I did get a great deal on it hence I purchased it. If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone with either a pair of Psa's, Hsu's or Monolith's. The question is, what will pair well with the Klipsch and how big of a sub do I need for the above space?? Mainly it will be Movies. I like to stick with the three names that I mention but also open to suggestions. Thank you in advance !!
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post #2 of 25 Old 07-18-2018, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by doni01 View Post
Hi Guys,
Looking for a second sub for my HT. Been reading the forum now for a while and have gotten the Bass Fever Yes I know, I know, I should have ran when I had the chance but I stuck around and here I am now. Running some RSL speakers with a Yamaha RX-V483BL and a Klipsch R-112sw. Room opens up to a total space of 19 x 26 x 7...At the moment the sub is near fielded and right next to the MLP. It sounds decent but I guess a little more bass won't hurt nobody. I know that around here Klipsch is not the most talked sub but I did get a great deal on it hence I purchased it. If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone with either a pair of Psa's, Hsu's or Monolith's. The question is, what will pair well with the Klipsch and how big of a sub do I need for the above space?? Mainly it will be Movies. I like to stick with the three names that I mention but also open to suggestions. Thank you in advance !!
Whats your budget? Are you against selling the Klipsch to use towards perhaps getting a pair of matching subs instead? Otherwise, ported would be the way to go since you have a ported sub already. HSU, Monolith and PSA are all solid choices if that what is within your price range..
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post #3 of 25 Old 07-18-2018, 07:42 PM
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It depends upon budget.

@MIX_MASTER_ICE could probably help you as (I believe) he had one of those Klipsch model subs.
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post #4 of 25 Old 07-18-2018, 10:32 PM
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As mentioned prior, are you open to selling the Klipsch and starting from scratch?

I am a big believer in REL’s new HT/1205 sub. It’s a dedicated home theater sub and as that’s your focus, having two of those will be killer and cost effective. $700 a piece and you’ll be very pleased. I would argue that when you find it’s time to upgrade that sub bass system, you’ll probably be doing a complete revamp. Should give you many years of enjoyment...

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post #5 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
It depends upon budget.

@MIX_MASTER_ICE could probably help you as (I believe) he had one of those Klipsch model subs.
Thanks bud but I am looking more on what size I would need for that space right now. That way I can swing the budget.
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post #6 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MbA7601 View Post
Whats your budget? Are you against selling the Klipsch to use towards perhaps getting a pair of matching subs instead? Otherwise, ported would be the way to go since you have a ported sub already. HSU, Monolith and PSA are all solid choices if that what is within your price range..
Thanks guys but selling the Klipsch will not be an easy option considering I have a bunch of Polk equipment that is sitting in my basement and still listed on Craigslist. I guess selling is not my strong suit. So I would need a sub that would go with what I have. Like I said before, If i had to do it all over again, I would do it with the pairs that I mentioned above.
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post #7 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 05:02 AM
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With ~3,500 cu.ft. and a flexible budget (based on required sub size), I suggest you consider:
- HSU VTF-15H MK2
- PSA V1801
- Rythmik FV15HP
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post #8 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
With ~3,500 cu.ft. and a flexible budget (based on required sub size), I suggest you consider:
- HSU VTF-15H MK2
- PSA V1801
- Rythmik FV15HP
Thank you sir. I am going to check all of the above right now. One quick question, what is the difference between the VTF-15H MK2 vs VTF-3 MK5 HP?? Thank you again.

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post #9 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by doni01 View Post
Thanks bud but I am looking more on what size I would need for that space right now. That way I can swing the budget.

I sent doni01 a reply to his PM on this issue.
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post #10 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
I sent doni01 a reply to his PM on this issue.
Thank you!! I have narrowed it down to the PSA V1510 and the VTF 3 MK5. Besides the option of closing the ports on the HSU, is there any upsides vs downsides on these two?? One more thing I noticed is that the PSA has the amp listed at 960W RMS vs the HSU that has it listed at 600W. What do you guys think??
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post #11 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by doni01 View Post
Thank you!! I have narrowed it down to the PSA V1510 and the VTF 3 MK5. Besides the option of closing the ports on the HSU, is there any upsides vs downsides on these two?? One more thing I noticed is that the PSA has the amp listed at 960W RMS vs the HSU that has it listed at 600W. What do you guys think??

Hi Sonny,

When I suggested in a PM that you tell us a little more about what you are looking for in an upgrade, it was for a reason. It's hard to tell from your posts so far, exactly what you are hoping to accomplish with an upgrade. In many respects, the subs are very similar, and the difference in amp power is a non-factor. A doubling in amplifier power equals a 3db increase in loudness, so the difference there is negligible. And, there are other factors beside amp power that determine a sub's performance, anyway.

Either sub would be a good choice. The PSA sub may have slightly more SPL above about 20 or 25Hz than the HSU. But, it will drop-off a little faster in the very low <20Hz frequencies. They will be close, but the HSU sub should go a little lower than the PSA sub. The HSU will also have more user configuration options. You may benefit from those or you may not. For instance, it's just possible that something in the options will enable the HSU to sound a little better when played with your Klipsch sub. The PSA sub costs more, but PSA offers future upgrade opportunities (trade-ins) that HSU does not offer. That could matter to you somewhere down the road.

Pick the one you like more. It's hard to make a bad choice here.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #12 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Sonny,

When I suggested in a PM that you tell us a little more about what you are looking for in an upgrade, it was for a reason. It's hard to tell from your posts so far, exactly what you are hoping to accomplish with an upgrade. In many respects, the subs are very similar, and the difference in amp power is a non-factor. A doubling in amplifier power equals a 3db increase in loudness, so the difference there is negligible. And, there are other factors beside amp power that determine a sub's performance, anyway.

Either sub would be a good choice. The PSA sub may have slightly more SPL above about 20 or 25Hz than the HSU. But, it will drop-off a little faster in the very low <20Hz frequencies. They will be close, but the HSU sub should go a little lower than the PSA sub. The HSU will also have more user configuration options. You may benefit from those or you may not. For instance, it's just possible that something in the options will enable the HSU to sound a little better when played with your Klipsch sub. The PSA sub costs more, but PSA offers future upgrade opportunities (trade-ins) that HSU does not offer. That could matter to you somewhere down the road.

Pick the one you like more. It's hard to make a bad choice here.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike,
I am sorry for not making it clear but I thought I explained it on the first post. I need more bass. I feel that the Klipsch is not enough given my room size hence adding a second sub. I do feel it just fine when it is next to me which is the second row but when I seat in the front the bass it is not that noticeable. It seems that it gets lost into the room. Again we are talking for a room in size almost 3500 cubic here and only 200W of bass. So in few words, I would like to feel the bass when I am sitting in the front or in the rear. I would like the room to be filled equally with bass. Don't know if that makes it more clear
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post #13 of 25 Old 07-20-2018, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Just wanted to update and let you guys know that I just ordered the VTF 3 MK5. Was going to go originally with the PSA V1510 but I only have exact 25" for height so that made me go with the HSU. Hopefully I made the right choice. Thank you everyone for helping!!
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-20-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by doni01 View Post
Just wanted to update and let you guys know that I just ordered the VTF 3 MK5. Was going to go originally with the PSA V1510 but I only have exact 25" for height so that made me go with the HSU. Hopefully I made the right choice. Thank you everyone for helping!!
The HSU will probably have a little better extension. They’re both great subs.

Congratulations my friend! When it comes in make sure to come back & give us your impressions.

in the meantime you should read Mikes “Guide to Subwoofer calibration” thread in his signature, it’ll be very helpful. If you do not have proper placement you will have wasted $~900. Also do a google or AVS search of the sub crawl. Good luck

Edit: here’s the guide https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html
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Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
The HSU will probably have a little better extension. They’re both great subs.

Congratulations my friend! When it comes in make sure to come back & give us your impressions.

in the meantime you should read Mikes “Guide to Subwoofer calibration” thread in his signature, it’ll be very helpful. If you do not have proper placement you will have wasted $~900. Also do a google or AVS search of the sub crawl. Good luck

Edit: here’s the guide https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html
Thanks bud. I will definitely let you guys know. Will be getting another HSU down the road when my funds allow. I also just sent Mike a PM regarding setting them both up (Klipsch+HSU) with YPAO since my AVR has only one output for the subwoofer. Will be using a splitter but as far as the settings I am a little confused
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-20-2018, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by doni01 View Post
Thanks bud. I will definitely let you guys know. Will be getting another HSU down the road when my funds allow. I also just sent Mike a PM regarding setting them both up (Klipsch+HSU) with YPAO since my AVR has only one output for the subwoofer. Will be using a splitter but as far as the settings I am a little confused
Yamaha’s are weird when it comes to bass.. also yes you can just use a splitter.

Here’s a few tips to help you increase your bass regarding YPAO.

Go to

options -> Tone control -> Bass -> +6
Options -> Subwoofer/Bass -> Subwoofer trim +6
Options -> Subwoofer/Bass -> Extra Bass - Off

Under on screen -> setup -> manual -> levels -> Subwoofer trim -> (keep this is the negatives) [anywhere from -9 to -2]
& increase the gain on the back of the sub rather than using the trim under levels.

Reading this short thread will give you a nice example of what these settings done to a SVS PB2K w/ a Yamaha 2070.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...-tweaking.html

Also here’s examples & graphs detailing what these settings achieve.









Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Absolutely correct. Yamaha’s are very odd when it comes to bass.

Don’t be afraid to turn **** up. Until you get a calibrated mic — https://www.minidsp.com/products/aco...urement/umik-1
Download an SPL meter on your phone were You can get a rough estimate of your volume relative to every other channel.

At 0 MV all channels should be calibrated for 75dB when using the test tones

It’s okay to run your sub hot. I have mine 5dB hot.

Here’s my settings although different subs

Sub gain - 3 o’clock
AVR trim - -5dB
Sub trim (under options) - +6
Tone control (bass) [under option] - +6

It’s best to have a high gain with a low trim setting.


Also to answer your question above, the sub gain is controlling how much voltage is being sent from the plate amp to the driver. The AVR trim is how much voltage is being sent through from the AVR to the sub via your inputs. The sub trim (under options) is just additional headroom added to the AVR trim; so assume your AVR trim is -10 - +10 there’s 20dB of choice, once you increase your sub trim you now have 26dB of choice. Tone control is controlling all channels, fronts, sub, etc. Hope this helps some.

May be helpful to read the subwoofer calibration thread below

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html
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Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
The Subwoofer Trim control on Yamaha receivers increases the low frequencies below the crossover. The Sub Trim control has been tweaked in recent years since the inclusion of the "Extra Bass" feature. In the past, the Sub Trim control increased the frequencies up to and including your crossover point and little beyond but not as wide of a frequency range as the Bass Tone Control which begins to increase the frequencies at approximately 250Hz on a taper or gradual.

In the attached graph you can see what the Sub Trim is doing with a crossover setting of 80Hz

@Twelton43 was the OP of the thread above. He had significant improvements once initiated these settings. He or I or others here will answer any questions you have. Don’t be afraid to ask.

Edit: after you run YPAO & it asks if you want “YPAO volume” on or off click off..or you can go to options -> YPAO volume-> YPAO Volume -> off. This is a dynamic setting for nighttime listening. It will kill your bass unlike Dynamic EQ or whatever it’s called on Denon.
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-20-2018, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Yamaha’s are weird when it comes to bass.. also yes you can just use a splitter.

Here’s a few tips to help you increase your bass regarding YPAO.

Go to

options -> Tone control -> Bass -> +6
Options -> Subwoofer/Bass -> Subwoofer trim +6
Options -> Subwoofer/Bass -> Extra Bass - Off

Under on screen -> setup -> manual -> levels -> Subwoofer trim -> (keep this is the negatives) [anywhere from -9 to -2]
& increase the gain on the back of the sub rather than using the trim under levels.

Reading this short thread will give you a nice example of what these settings done to a SVS PB2K w/ a Yamaha 2070.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...-tweaking.html

Also here’s examples & graphs detailing what these settings achieve.














@Twelton43 was the OP of the thread above. He had significant improvements once initiated these settings. He or I or others here will answer any questions you have. Don’t be afraid to ask.

Edit: after you run YPAO & it asks if you want “YPAO volume” on or off click off..or you can go to options -> YPAO volume-> YPAO Volume -> off. This is a dynamic setting for nighttime listening. It will kill your bass unlike Dynamic EQ or whatever it’s called on Denon.
Thanks bud. Appreciate the info above. I am somewhere familiar with the above settings on the YPAO regarding one sub. My confusion is with running both subs at the same time since the YPAO will only see them as one. That is where it gets little tricky for me. Mike suggested to play around with the settings and take it from there so I will take his advise as well and see what happens I guess...Worse comes to worst I will retire the Klipsch and just keep the HSU. Just would have liked using them both till I get another HSU and make it a pair then I would have had no problem retiring the Klipsch.
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post #18 of 25 Old 07-20-2018, 04:50 PM
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Thanks bud. Appreciate the info above. I am somewhere familiar with the above settings on the YPAO regarding one sub. My confusion is with running both subs at the same time since the YPAO will only see them as one. That is where it gets little tricky for me. Mike suggested to play around with the settings and take it from there so I will take his advise as well and see what happens I guess...Worse comes to worst I will retire the Klipsch and just keep the HSU. Just would have liked using them both till I get another HSU and make it a pair then I would have had no problem retiring the Klipsch.
This is one positive the HSU has w/ multiple tuning options.

Your best bet would be to place the Klipsch nearfield. If you have the available space maybe directly firing into the back of your seating. But, yes until you get the HSU it’ll be different to recommend any integration suggestions. You should be able to make it work though, it may just be a little frustrating regarding time, movement, & settings.

Can’t wait to hear your impressions. You’ll be a happy man!
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Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
This is one positive the HSU has w/ multiple tuning options.

Your best bet would be to place the Klipsch nearfield. If you have the available space maybe directly firing into the back of your seating. But, yes until you get the HSU it’ll be different to recommend any integration suggestions. You should be able to make it work though, it may just be a little frustrating regarding time, movement, & settings.

Can’t wait to hear your impressions. You’ll be a happy man!
Thank you sir. I need to hear that I will be a Happy Man I just watched a movie now with the wife and kids and everyone was impressed with the bass coming from the Klipsch. I am sitting there in the back chair and smiling, thinking to myself, wait till you guys see/hear the one that is coming lol I am gonna have to make sure the wife is not home when the package comes otherwise she will kill me. Just updated all my speakers two weeks ago and told her that would be it Just hope the upgrade will sound as good as I think
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-20-2018, 07:49 PM
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Thank you sir. I need to hear that I will be a Happy Man I just watched a movie now with the wife and kids and everyone was impressed with the bass coming from the Klipsch. I am sitting there in the back chair and smiling, thinking to myself, wait till you guys see/hear the one that is coming lol I am gonna have to make sure the wife is not home when the package comes otherwise she will kill me. Just updated all my speakers two weeks ago and told her that would be it Just hope the upgrade will sound as good as I think
Irrelevant to the thread but, what speakers did you purchase?

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post #21 of 25 Old 07-21-2018, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Irrelevant to the thread but, what speakers did you purchase?
No problem. I went with the RSL Speakers. Very happy so far
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-21-2018, 05:41 AM
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No problem. I went with the RSL Speakers. Very happy so far
Very nice! I have not heard any RSL speakers but, they are highly praised at AVS.

| Eqmt | Vizio 4K M50-E1 | Yamaha RX-V681 | iNUKE 3kdsp x2 | Emotiva BasX A-100 | miniDSP UMIK-1 | Monolith M1060 | Monolith USB DAC |
| Sub | Trilithon | Stonehenge Variant Subwoofer - 18” - 9ft³ - 19Hz | Marty | Microcube 390HO - 22Hz | Monolith THX Ultra 12 | Monolith THX Select 10 |
| Spkrs | HSU CCB8 x3 | SVS Prime Elevation x2 | Polk S15 |
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post #23 of 25 Old 07-21-2018, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Very nice! I have not heard any RSL speakers but, they are highly praised at AVS.
Yes they are pretty good and definitely an upgrade from my TL Polks.
Had one more question regarding the Subs. I do have a chance to pick another Klipsch R-112sw just like the one I have and was thinking of putting both Klipsch upfront and the HSU nearfield or in the back. Do you think that will be a good idea or will it be an overkill??
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post #24 of 25 Old 07-21-2018, 06:32 AM
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Yes they are pretty good and definitely an upgrade from my TL Polks.
Had one more question regarding the Subs. I do have a chance to pick another Klipsch R-112sw just like the one I have and was thinking of putting both Klipsch upfront and the HSU nearfield or in the back. Do you think that will be a good idea or will it be an overkill??
Personally I would not. It’d probably present more challenges than solutions.

I would just take that amount & put it towards another HSU. You could probably get away w/ mixing the HSU 3.5 w/ a HSU 2.5 If you wanted to save some money apart from buying an identical 3.5.
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| Eqmt | Vizio 4K M50-E1 | Yamaha RX-V681 | iNUKE 3kdsp x2 | Emotiva BasX A-100 | miniDSP UMIK-1 | Monolith M1060 | Monolith USB DAC |
| Sub | Trilithon | Stonehenge Variant Subwoofer - 18” - 9ft³ - 19Hz | Marty | Microcube 390HO - 22Hz | Monolith THX Ultra 12 | Monolith THX Select 10 |
| Spkrs | HSU CCB8 x3 | SVS Prime Elevation x2 | Polk S15 |
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post #25 of 25 Old 07-21-2018, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Personally I would not. It’d probably present more challenges than solutions.

I would just take that amount & put it towards another HSU. You could probably get away w/ mixing the HSU 3.5 w/ a HSU 2.5 If you wanted to save some money apart from buying an identical 3.5.
Got you. Thank you!!
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