Bass EQ for Filtered Movies - Page 199 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5941 of 7671 Old 03-30-2019, 07:27 PM
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FYI...I watched the first Transformers as a follow up to Bumblebee and was a little underwhelmed by the overall mix. I'm not sure if it's just my current setup....which isn't the greatest mind you...but it just sounded off to me. Especially whenever compared to the mix of The Last Knight. That one really brought the goods, whereas this one was just lacking in most phases of the overall mix.

Just an observation, but then again, it could just be my setup.

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post #5942 of 7671 Old 03-30-2019, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Oh oh, I hope you had your speakers set up in your AVR/processor as SMALL unless you have jriver bass management enabled.
I BEQ with all channels selected as well, and I've never had any issues. THe only movie that I've had any issues with...EVER...has been Aquaman. Even without BEQ my LCR gets a nasty workout during the "trident recovery scene". My little 6 1/2" drivers get a serious workout during that scene.

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post #5943 of 7671 Old 03-30-2019, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Welcome to the BEQ party! I forgot what subs you’re running in the theater room these days (S2’s and B12’s?). How are those Monolith 12’s bumping in the bedroom?

I usually load BEQ’s on the movie menu screen too but occasionally load up a few before I turn my amps on for multiple movies. I do get a pop/thump sound as well from the subs and have my miniDSP on all the time too, so make sure your volume isn’t at reference.
4 S2’s and the 4 B1200’s right behind the couch.

I am really liking the monolith 12’s. Just watched Bumblebee in the main theater and watching a movie with my daughter now with the 12’s (‘Madagascar). They do great in the bedroom.
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post #5944 of 7671 Old 03-30-2019, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
I BEQ with all channels selected as well, and I've never had any issues. THe only movie that I've had any issues with...EVER...has been Aquaman. Even without BEQ my LCR gets a nasty workout during the "trident recovery scene". My little 6 1/2" drivers get a serious workout during that scene.
You definitely have bass management somewhere. What is your speakers crossover? I would raise it if you think your LCR get ‘nasty’ workout. It is better/safer to beq on the sub channel, speakers are not meant to be LS’ed, especially at beq’ed frequencies.
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post #5945 of 7671 Old 03-30-2019, 10:39 PM
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I am really liking the monolith 12’s.
The monolith 12s are great. I have one in my house. If you're not DIY, I don't think they can be beat for the price. I'd recommend the monolith 12 or 15 to anyone looking in that size range, especially when they go on sale. The last site wide sale I almost ordered one because the price was too good.

Aron, could you do Galaxy Quest when you get a chance if you have it. I need a good sci-fi comedy. It'd be nice if we could get a UHD release with all 3 aspect ratios brought back.

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post #5946 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Just starting to read this thread and used BEQ for Atomic Blonde and First Man with great results. I am using a MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced version as my Pre Pro has all XLR outputs.

When is everyone loading the programs to the MiniDSP? When I load a program when my subs are on I get a loud pop. I have been loading the programs before I turn everything on (my MiniDSP is always on). I just have to be careful with the menu and preview volumes before I start the movie.
Hey raynist, I have both the miniDSP 2x4 balanced and miniDSP 2x4 HD. With the miniDSP 2x4 balanced i do get the loud pop but with the miniDSP 2x4 HD i don't. When i use the miniDSP 2x4 balanced i turn on my subs after i load Bass EQ for the movie.

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post #5947 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Oh oh, I hope you had your speakers set up in your AVR/processor as SMALL unless you have jriver bass management enabled.
Yeah I do. Not sure how different it'll sound though. I guess most of the movie audio engineers don't map much below 50hz to the main speaker channels anyway right?
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post #5948 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 06:55 AM
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Could we get a 2008 Rambo BEQ at some point please Aron? The extended version would be nice as I'm pretty sure the theatrical cut and extended had different audio, so I'm curious to see how the extended one looks as someone posted the theatrical graph in the other thread here.. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57831590
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post #5949 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
You definitely have bass management somewhere. What is your speakers crossover? I would raise it if you think your LCR get ‘nasty’ workout. It is better/safer to beq on the sub channel, speakers are not meant to be LS’ed, especially at beq’ed frequencies.
I'm running 100Hz across the board (LCR, surrounds, and LPF/LFE) using the cascading x-over method.

As for Aquaman, like I said, it does this to my LCR regardless of BEQ or not. Just on that one scene though.

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post #5950 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 08:38 AM
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^^ What is the timestamp of that scene? Need to check it out on my speakers. Thanks
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post #5951 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ What is the timestamp of that scene? Need to check it out on my speakers. Thanks
That scene starts around the 1:50 mark.

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post #5952 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 09:08 AM
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That scene starts around the 1:50 mark.
Is that a minute 50, or an hour 50?
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post #5953 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 09:35 AM
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Is that a minute 50, or an hour 50?
That would be hour & fifty.

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post #5954 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 05:36 PM
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BassEQ The Highwaymen (2019) DD+ Atmos


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post #5955 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
BassEQ The Highwaymen (2019) DD+ Atmos
In the middle of this now, but there is a CRAZY bass scene at 1:12:00!

Oh, and the gunshots throughout are awesome! HARD transients on each one!

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post #5956 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Giving the Aquaman Atmos track a proper BEQ reference spin, and the audio and video quality is still leagues better than the VUDU stream, probably not surprising to anyone. I thought the bass was still potent on the stream, but the full screen visuals are simply gorgeous on disc compared to the distractingly compressed image on VUDU.

I guess on smaller TV’s most people don’t mind or notice the degradation in video quality, but it’s pretty glaring on a big screen. Preaching to the choir here, but man Streaming quality/bandwidth really needs to improve a lot before physical media dies.

Someone mentioned the loss of dynamics in the streaming version, and the HD audio with BEQ definitely has more nuanced effects, sounding clean and deliberate, which is a lot less muddy to my ears than the stream...could be why.

Does the audio bitrate for lossy files have any link to potential distortion levels or otherwise negatively impact playback versus lossless, or are the two completely unrelated?
The higher the lossy bitrate, the closer to the lossless original.

Did you stream the 4K UHD Vudu version or HD? Vudu's HD DD+ rates are much lower than their UHD Atmos tracks. I haven't rechecked streaming bitrates since iTunes started featuring Atmos.

The iTunes guidelines for authoring Atmos: DD+ 384k to 768k

Netflix 5.1: DD+ 192k
Netflix Atmos: DD+ 384k

Vudu UHD Atmos: DD+ 576k
Vudu UHD 7.1: 384k
Vudu HD 5.1: ??

Please let me know if you have more recent info.
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post #5957 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 08:23 PM
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The Highwaymen DD+ Atmos track that I just BEQed was 768k from Netflix. I don't remember seeing a Netflix stream that high in bitrate before, so maybe they are stepping up their game. FWIW, it sounded great to me.
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post #5958 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 08:42 PM
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Oh, and the gunshots throughout are awesome! HARD transients on each one!
I love these types of descriptions . Waiting for the lossless version. Thanks
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post #5959 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
The Highwaymen DD+ Atmos track that I just BEQed was 768k from Netflix. I don't remember seeing a Netflix stream that high in bitrate before, so maybe they are stepping up their game. FWIW, it sounded great to me.
That is excellent news! I hope this is a sign of the improvements promised with the upcoming rate hike. If so, I will gladly pay it! When Netflix first started experimenting with DD+ 5.1 the bitrate was 384k and the quality was good. For some odd reason they decided that acceptable was good enough and settled on 192k.

I discussed streamed DD+ Atmos with @Roger Dressler last year. The Atmos metadata payload adds 20-30%. I would estimate that a 768k DD+ Atmos stream is equivalent to a 640k DD+ 7.1 stream which I believe is the threshold for lossy perceptual transparency (I think that was the term Roger used).

Also, Roger loves bass. If he didn't know about this thread before… he should soon.
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post #5960 of 7671 Old 03-31-2019, 11:56 PM
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That is excellent news! I hope this is a sign of the improvements promised with the upcoming rate hike. If so, I will gladly pay it! When Netflix first started experimenting with DD+ 5.1 the bitrate was 384k and the quality was good. For some odd reason they decided that acceptable was good enough and settled on 192k.

I discussed streamed DD+ Atmos with @Roger Dressler last year. The Atmos metadata payload adds 20-30%. I would estimate that a 768k DD+ Atmos stream is equivalent to a 640k DD+ 7.1 stream which I believe is the threshold for lossy perceptual transparency (I think that was the term Roger used).

Also, Roger loves bass. If he didn't know about this thread before… he should soon.
i'm showing the 1080 rip available on netflix (with the 768 kbps audio stream) you're referencing has a whopping 5.4GB file size with a 5.1 mbps video bitrate. how do people get excited for this? that doesn't hold a candle to your run-of-the-mill 1080 bluray disk that averages closer to 20-30 mbps video & ~1 mbps+ audio.

what's really sad is that in the future anything made exclusively by netflix will never get a proper bluray disk release. in fact the only reason netflix has released their IP on disks thus far (in a higher quality format) is because they partnered with X studio to create the content and they promised a proper disk release after X months of exclusive streaming rights. it'll be a sad day when netflix web streams are the highest quality format we get to enjoy.
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post #5961 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 06:35 AM
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I am wondering if every file should have bypass or peak in them, i am noticing this with a lot of files, for example Braveheart, 300, 300: Rise of an Empire, Ghostbusters extended edition, Blade Runner 2049, in fact every file i open seems to have one instance where its peak or bypassed and i am wondering if this is correct? I thought maybe bypass should be left off and it was always low shelf?

Also output 1 shows 3db increase at 30hz, is this normal too?

Another question, i was going to watch Jurassic World 3D, its DTS HD Master Audio 71. Is it okay to load the Atmos track for this? That file has bypass going on for EQ 3,4,5,6,7 and 8 is peak and bypassed.

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post #5962 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 06:48 AM
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i'm showing the 1080 rip available on netflix (with the 768 kbps audio stream) you're referencing has a whopping 5.4GB file size with a 5.1 mbps video bitrate. how do people get excited for this? that doesn't hold a candle to your run-of-the-mill 1080 bluray disk that averages closer to 20-30 mbps video & ~1 mbps+ audio.
I agree with you, but FWIW, in this case I watched the 4K HDR video stream which was 24.2 mbps along with the 768k audio. The PQ looked fantastic, even with how close I sit.

Edit: Well here's a big reason why:
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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

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post #5963 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 07:44 AM
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BassEQ Triple Threat (2019) DTS-HD MA 5.1



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post #5964 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 08:22 AM
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BassEQ X-Men: First Class (2011) DTS-HD MA 5.1



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Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #5965 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The higher the lossy bitrate, the closer to the lossless original.

Did you stream the 4K UHD Vudu version or HD? Vudu's HD DD+ rates are much lower than their UHD Atmos tracks. I haven't rechecked streaming bitrates since iTunes started featuring Atmos.

It was the HDX stream to a Chromecast that indeed uses 5.1 DD+, which VUDU says averages 9.5Mbps and up to 20Mbps (not sure I saw much at the max data rate). My ISP and home network could handle UHD easily, but my projector is only 1080p, so the video streams don’t appear to downsample to a lower resolution or retain the higher UHD audio bitrate, which would be awesome; however, I can see why from a hardware capability perspective it doesn’t.

Any way to stream the higher bitrate audio/video to a non UHD display, even with everything else in the chain 4K capable?

It’s not that the Aquaman streaming quality was truly bad, but being my first paid movie stream in a while, I’d hoped for better versus the disc quality. VUDU apparently uses proprietary video encoding techniques to optimize video quality and minimize compression artifacts, so I’d hate to see comparisons without this technology in place, because the amount of artifact present was not acceptable.

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post #5966 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted Mcvey View Post
I am wondering if every file should have bypass or peak in them, i am noticing this with a lot of files, for example Braveheart, 300, 300: Rise of an Empire, Ghostbusters extended edition, Blade Runner 2049, in fact every file i open seems to have one instance where its peak or bypassed and i am wondering if this is correct? I thought maybe bypass should be left off and it was always low shelf?

Also output 1 shows 3db increase at 30hz, is this normal too?

Another question, i was going to watch Jurassic World 3D, its DTS HD Master Audio 71. Is it okay to load the Atmos track for this? That file has bypass going on for EQ 3,4,5,6,7 and 8 is peak and bypassed.
Are you talking about my save files in the git repo? If so they're following what Aron has posted. Bypassed means that the filter isn't used. For example the Triple Threat BEQ that Aron just posted uses 5 LS and 1 PEQ filter for a total of 6 filters. The other 4 filters are bypasses so that they don't have any effect on the audio. For peak filters that depends on the title and the rest of the BEQ. They're used mainly for overshot correction but Aron uses them at times when there's a spike that needs to be tamed or worked around.

What title are you seeing a 3db increase at 30hz on output one? The outputs should all be flat or bypassed. If one isn't, please let me know so that I can correct it.
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post #5967 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
It was the HDX stream to a Chromecast that indeed uses 5.1 DD+, which VUDU says averages 9.5Mbps and up to 20Mbps (not sure I saw much at the max data rate). My ISP and home network could handle UHD easily, but my projector is only 1080p, so the video streams don’t appear to downsample to a lower resolution or retain the higher UHD audio bitrate, which would be awesome; however, I can see why from a hardware capability perspective it doesn’t.

Any way to stream the higher bitrate audio/video to a non UHD display, even with everything else in the chain 4K capable?

It’s not that the Aquaman streaming quality was truly bad, but being my first paid movie stream in a while, I’d hoped for better versus the disc quality. VUDU apparently uses proprietary video encoding techniques to optimize video quality and minimize compression artifacts, so I’d hate to see comparisons without this technology in place, because the amount of artifact present was not acceptable.
I suspected it was the HDX stream. Unfortunately you can only get the UHD stream when you 1) purchase/rent it and 2) have a chain that supports it. In your case you would need the Chromecast Ultra and a 4k display. Their UHD HDR streams are much closer to the discs. UHD being superior to the 1080p discs, aside from compression artifacts which only plague the most complex scenes.
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post #5968 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 11:29 AM
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BassEQ X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014) DTS-HD MA 7.1


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post #5969 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
BassEQ X-Men: First Class (2011) DTS-HD MA 5.1



I am thinking for this one I would skip BEQ - now triple threat or highway men on the other hand.......
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post #5970 of 7671 Old 04-01-2019, 11:47 AM
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Post Another Meg Demo scene

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
The 'MEG' demo material BEQ vs non BEQ

... a couple Time Stamps with scenes that may make for some good demo material for BEQ vs no BEQ ...

Now for the longer one that is wicked cool too IMO is from about 32:38 to 35:40 (there is more before and after this, but this is a good section that really brings the ULF. Moderate in some areas and hardcore in others. If you only pick one from these two, this one might be the most entertaining, but I really like both. ULF starts right off the bat when she tries to anchor up and gets jacked Then really cool ULF along the way leading up the MEGA (hehehe) ULF hit at 35:27 for 3-4 seconds. Talk about an awesome ULF passage right here ...huge, heavy and has serious power for weight, pressure and TR wobble...
@aron7awol , first off, thanks much for doing the original Spider-man Trilogy (haven't had a chance to spin those yet), but we had guests over who never saw The Meg, so we watched it again last night, and I just wanted to suggest an additional demo scene that almost exactly matches up with a scene @SBuger had mentioned a while back (it's a great BEQ comparison scene, even for ~15Hz up to 25Hz -capable systems, as you can see by the graph). I jotted down 32:49 to 36:17 while we were watching
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