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post #61 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruppgu View Post
Thanks. It's possible the BEQ on GOTG2 just isn't that good. In the other thread they typically make adjustments to all speakers so when I adjust just the LFE I don't get the full effect. I'll mess with it more on Tuesday when I try your BEQ for Infinity war. Any stand out scenes with your BEQ that would be easy to A/B test?
Just so you know, when you BEQ using the MiniDSP on your sub outs, you aren't just adjusting LFE. You are adjusting LFE and every one of your other channels below their crossover point, assuming you have your speakers set to Small (you should!).

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post #62 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruppgu View Post
Thanks. It's possible the BEQ on GOTG2 just isn't that good. In the other thread they typically make adjustments to all speakers so when I adjust just the LFE I don't get the full effect. I'll mess with it more on Tuesday when I try your BEQ for Infinity war. Any stand out scenes with your BEQ that would be easy to A/B test?
Have you ever taken sweeps of your new sub in-room? That would be a starting point for you. After all, if your frequency response isn't flat, BEQ won't fix that.
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post #63 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 05:28 PM
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Maybe another addition to the FAQ...

How do I create my own BEQs?

If someone wants to experiment with BEQ "on paper", they can download the Biquad filter spreadsheet from this MiniDSP page:
https://www.minidsp.com/applications...ad-programming

I use the lowShelf tab in that spreadsheet when creating BEQs to check boosts at each frequency and find the filters that achieve my goals for that particular graph.

By default the frequency list increases by 1/8 octaves, but for BEQ I modified that to display each frequency from 1 to 50. I also created columns that multiply the boost by 2, 3, and 4, in order to see the results of cascaded filters. These two changes make the spreadsheet a great tool for BEQ creation.
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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #64 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Maybe another addition to the FAQ...

How do I create my own BEQs?

If someone wants to experiment with BEQ "on paper", they can download the Biquad filter spreadsheet from this MiniDSP page:
https://www.minidsp.com/applications...ad-programming

I use the lowShelf tab in that spreadsheet when creating BEQs to check boosts at each frequency and find the filters that achieve my goals for that particular graph.

By default the frequency list increases by 1/8 octaves, but for BEQ I modified that to display each frequency from 1 to 50. I also created columns that multiply the boost by 2, 3, and 4, in order to see the results of cascaded filters. These two changes make the spreadsheet a great tool for BEQ creation.
Cool, i was wondering how you did it. Could you make a tutorial, pretty please ?
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post #65 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Have you ever taken sweeps of your new sub in-room? That would be a starting point for you. After all, if your frequency response isn't flat, BEQ won't fix that.
Yep, it's as flat as I can get it with my single sub. No dips in low end but I do have some in the mid bass region. My sub is the purple. This was back when I used dynamic EQ (I stopped using it since) which is why it's measuring so loud.

Graph is sub only
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post #66 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 06:41 PM
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BassEQ Transporter 3 (2008) Atmos


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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

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post #67 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruppgu View Post
Yep, it's as flat as I can get it with my single sub. No dips in low end but I do have some in the mid bass region. My sub is the purple. This was back when I used dynamic EQ (I stopped using it since) which is why it's measuring so loud.

Graph is sub only
That looks pretty good for a single sub. Does it extend even lower (it looks like it does)? What is your normal listening level? Do you run your subs hot? Having Dynamic EQ turned on will make it much easier to notice the difference from BEQ. My Crowsons (which go down to 5Hz with authority) make it really easy for me to tell the difference right away, but you should be getting a good benefit between 15-20Hz on most movies, which is definitely a really nice tactile feedback zone, but it does take pretty significant volume to make an impact down that low. That's why a house curve (or Dynamic EQ) really helps to make your ULF much more impactful.
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Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
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post #68 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruppgu View Post
Yep, it's as flat as I can get it with my single sub. No dips in low end but I do have some in the mid bass region. My sub is the purple. This was back when I used dynamic EQ (I stopped using it since) which is why it's measuring so loud.

Graph is sub only
Just a few questions…

Have you recorded compression sweeps? I'm assuming you can play War of the Worlds and other reference titles without taxing the sub. Can/have you? What make/model is the single sub? What are your room dimensions? Is the room on a hard slab or floating? Is the room sealed or open to other rooms?
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post #69 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
That looks pretty good for a single sub. Does it extend even lower (it looks like it does)? What is your normal listening level? Do you run your subs hot? Having Dynamic EQ turned on will make it much easier to notice the difference from BEQ. My Crowsons (which go down to 5Hz with authority) make it really easy for me to tell the difference right away, but you should be getting a good benefit between 15-20Hz on most movies, which is definitely a really nice tactile feedback zone, but it does take pretty significant volume to make an impact down that low. That's why a house curve (or Dynamic EQ) really helps to make your ULF much more impactful.
I listen around 15db (10db for disney movies) and my subs are 10db hot after Audyssey (no dynamic EQ). My sub goes down to 11hz I believe according to specs (it's a PSA V1811).

I could try Dynamic EQ again... I tried to just bump my sub up enough to account for about where we listen at (15db). I didn't like it because it made some parts that shouldn't have had a lot of bass, have too much bass. I also didn't like how it boosted the surrounds and the treble boosts made certain movies sound harsh. Maybe a house curve would be better. I could try adding 6db around 20hz?
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post #70 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Just a few questions…

Have you recorded compression sweeps? I'm assuming you can play War of the Worlds and other reference titles without taxing the sub. Can/have you? What make/model is the single sub? What are your room dimensions? Is the room on a hard slab or floating? Is the room sealed or open to other rooms?
Haven't done compression sweeps. Yeah I played War of the Worlds the other day, sounded pretty sweet The room is very big (38'x19')... carpeted basement (concrete under the carpet).
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post #71 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruppgu View Post
I listen around 15db (10db for disney movies) and my subs are 10db hot after Audyssey (no dynamic EQ). My sub goes down to 11hz I believe according to specs (it's a PSA V1811).

I could try Dynamic EQ again... I tried to just bump my sub up enough to account for about where we listen at (15db). I didn't like it because it made some parts that shouldn't have had a lot of bass, have too much bass. I also didn't like how it boosted the surrounds and the treble boosts made certain movies sound harsh. Maybe a house curve would be better. I could try adding 6db around 20hz?
Your graph only went down to 15Hz, what I meant was what does the graph look like below there? Your actual response in-room at your MLP.

Well 10dB hot is certainly very hot. I wouldn't add a house curve on top of that.

My house curve is a blend of running Dynamic EQ and my subs hot, and the result is pretty much a 2.5dB per octave rise from 80Hz to 10Hz. My normal listening level is -10 MV.

I think you're in pretty good shape overall. What did you use for filters with GotG2?
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I made the 3 different BEQ’s available on my Harmony



The first one is my normal curve for non- neutered movie, just a house curve, and the next three have cascaded low shelfs at 12hz, 0.9Q with 3.5, 4 and 4.5 dB X 4 on each. Watched Red Sparrow yesterday with the 14dB BEQ and it was pretty cool, actually

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post #73 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
I made the 3 different BEQ’s available on my Harmony

The first one is my normal curve for non- neutered movie, just a house curve, and the next three have cascaded low shelfs at 12hz, 0.9Q with 3.5, 4 and 4.5 dB X 4 on each. Watched Red Sparrow yesterday with the 14dB BEQ and it was pretty cool, actually
your normal curve is a 10dB house curve?
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post #74 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 10:51 PM
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your normal curve is a 10dB house curve?
How did you conclude that?

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post #75 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 10:57 PM
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How did you conclude that?
just guess & ask
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post #76 of 8847 Old 08-13-2018, 11:02 PM
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just guess & ask
Well, i am afraid it is a bit "worse". Take a look:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wh...l#post56240538

But, remember, the point of BEQ is not to INCREASE your normal curve, but to get neutered tracks back to the normal curve.

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post #77 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Maybe another addition to the FAQ...

How do I create my own BEQs?

If someone wants to experiment with BEQ "on paper", they can download the Biquad filter spreadsheet from this MiniDSP page:
https://www.minidsp.com/applications...ad-programming
Use rephase instead which lets you create any combination of filters you like. This would also let you import the avg and/or peak curve into it so you see the effects on that directly.
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post #78 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
The Greatest Showman BEQ

LS 14Hz Q0.9 3.25dB x 4 (13dB total)

Can someone explain the graphs? What is the red vs the green line? Why isn't just the green line with the yellow correction shown?
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post #79 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Can someone explain the graphs? What is the red vs the green line? Why isn't just the green line with the yellow correction shown?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post56337630
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post #80 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
Thanks But all that needed to be said without having to read such a long post and ctrl+f for the word " red " (and for anyone else that had same question):
Green = Peak
Red = average
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post #81 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Thanks But all that needed to be said without having to read such a long post and ctrl+f for the word " red " (and for anyone else that had same question):
Green = Peak
Red = average
From the very First post on the Ultimate List of Bass in Movies w/ Frequency Charts thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post51057089


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts

The original list https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...cy-charts.html haven't been updated in a while.

The original list has no clickable links for each movie graphs
so you have to literally search 1000's of pages

NOTES!

  1. Movie names will be clickable which will lead you right to the graph.
  2. If a specific scene graph is requested for a film it will be done and added under the movies name.
  3. This whole forum is meant to be fun, well organized and community fueled and any support will be welcomed .
  4. If you have any movie recommendations or ways to improve this forum let me know.
  5. Release date of the movie is used not the Blu-Ray release dates.


Thanks to PioManiac Mrkazador Fatshaft Marc Alexander

What does the green and red lines represent in the graphs?


Green
= Peak db (Loudness) at that given frequency
RED = Average db (Loudness) at that given frequency

The space between the Green and Red lines shows how Dynamic the track is.
The wider it is at any given point the more dynamic, the less space between the less dynamic.


Reading Graphs 101 Click Here
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post #82 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Your graph only went down to 15Hz, what I meant was what does the graph look like below there? Your actual response in-room at your MLP.

Well 10dB hot is certainly very hot. I wouldn't add a house curve on top of that.

My house curve is a blend of running Dynamic EQ and my subs hot, and the result is pretty much a 2.5dB per octave rise from 80Hz to 10Hz. My normal listening level is -10 MV.

I think you're in pretty good shape overall. What did you use for filters with GotG2?
I'll have to run a sweep again to see the low end.

I only tried a few scenes in GotG2 with the following:

Low Shelf 18Hz Q=0.707 +5.25dB

Low Shelf 18Hz Q=0.707 +5.25dB

Low Shelf 18Hz Q=0.707 +5.25dB

I tried the opening fight which I always felt sounded neutered and then went to the end to watch a few of the explosions. Didn't notice a huge difference in either at -10db MV but I'm still investigating my setup.

I'll be trying Infinity War over lunch today... can't wait.

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post #83 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 07:56 AM
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I'm not sure if this is a REW or a BEQ question, but here goes...

I haven't ordered my miniDSP yet, but once I do, should I put it in line and re run Audyssey, or use the Audyssey calibration that's already in place, then start running sweeps?
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post #84 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidacat View Post
I'm not sure if this is a REW or a BEQ question, but here goes...

I haven't ordered my miniDSP yet, but once I do, should I put it in line and re run Audyssey, or use the Audyssey calibration that's already in place, then start running sweeps?
You shouldn't need to re-run Audyssey after adding the Mini to the chain but you should add it and then run an REW sweep or two to verify your response hasn't changed for some reason, it should not by more than possibly being slightly lower in level than before (but maybe not) which is easily fixed with a level bump.

I have tried every way you can imagine, from pre-eq'ing the subs and then running Audyssey to running Audyssey and then doing touch-up eq to fully flatten what Audyssey didn't. I fully believe the latter to be the best way to get the results wanted. Audyssey doesn't do too bad with subs but can leave a bit to be desired and I have found that giving Audyssey a nice flat pre-eq'd response in most cases doesn't really help it very much and the response always need some post Audyssey correction. So why not just skip the pre-eq all together and just let Audyssey do its best then finalize the response with REW sweeps and use the Mini to add the filters needed to dial in the flattest response.

I say all that to get to this. Once i started eq'ing my subs after Audyssey, I have found the key to be nailing an Audyssey run that produces the best sounding response from 120hz on up on all the speakers, then dialing in the subs from there with REW and the Mini.

So if you are perfectly happy with your Audyssey'd response now on all the speakers there is no reason to run it again since you can now post eq your subs to taste with the Mini and IMHO is the better way anyway. Just add the Mini, run an REW sweep to verify nothing has unexpectedly changed, then use the Eq tool in REW to finalize your sub response and add those filters to either the input or output Eq of the Mini and then you will have the eq section you didn't use ( input or output, whichever you didn't use for your flattening filters) for your BEQ filters.


This is how I have found best to do it in my system after 3+yrs of trying every possible way to eq my sub and use Audyssey. If I had a newer Pre-amp than my 7702 with either Dirac, ARC, or even the Audyssey app I may try going about it differently again but this method could very possibly still be the best plan of attack, but without the extra control of those RC's in hand it is very hard to speculate.

Good luck and feel free to reach out if you need any other help or guidance with implementing BEQ once your sub response is where you want it.
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post #85 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 09:02 AM
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@biga6761 Thanks for the detailed post. I'm pretty sure I'm getting a miniDSP soon, mostly for BEQ, but wanted to look at and tweak my sub settings with REW also. I've never touched either, but have been trying to make time to read posts here, miniDSP's website and the REW guide. There's a lot to digest, and am trying to avoid time consuming errors from the start - at least reduce some error from the trial and error.
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post #86 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 11:45 AM
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I gave the first scene of Infinity War a go with BEQ. In my A/B testing I noticed a few improvements but it wasn't completely night and day difference. It sounded exactly the same (which should be expected with most of the boost being below 20hz). There were 2-3 effects where I noticed more oomph. One of the effects slightly shook my bookshelves while that didn't happen without BEQ. I also noticed a touch more couch vibration if I put my hand on the couch. Definitely an improvement but I was hoping for something slightly more noticeable. Maybe there weren't a ton of moments where BEQ shines in the opening encounter though?

I took some graphs of max db with it on and off. It's definitely working which is neat to see This was at -10db MV with my subs 10db hot after Audyssey. How's it look?
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post #87 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post

Then onto BEQ with an Avengers Triple Feature on Saturday

(4K/UHD Steelbooks on the way for The Avengers/Age of Ultron/Infinity War)

It looks like my Steelbook editions are not going to arrive in time for the weekend
...But BestBuy had these in stock to get me by until they do

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post #88 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruppgu View Post
I gave the first scene of Infinity War a go with BEQ. In my A/B testing I noticed a few improvements but it wasn't completely night and day difference. It sounded exactly the same (which should be expected with most of the boost being below 20hz). There were 2-3 effects where I noticed more oomph. One of the effects slightly shook my bookshelves while that didn't happen without BEQ. I also noticed a touch more couch vibration if I put my hand on the couch. Definitely an improvement but I was hoping for something slightly more noticeable. Maybe there weren't a ton of moments where BEQ shines in the opening encounter though?

I took some graphs of max db with it on and off. It's definitely working which is neat to see This was at -10db MV with my subs 10db hot after Audyssey. How's it look?
What subs do you have?
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post #89 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruppgu View Post
I gave the first scene of Infinity War a go with BEQ. In my A/B testing I noticed a few improvements but it wasn't completely night and day difference. It sounded exactly the same (which should be expected with most of the boost being below 20hz). There were 2-3 effects where I noticed more oomph. One of the effects slightly shook my bookshelves while that didn't happen without BEQ. I also noticed a touch more couch vibration if I put my hand on the couch. Definitely an improvement but I was hoping for something slightly more noticeable. Maybe there weren't a ton of moments where BEQ shines in the opening encounter though?

I took some graphs of max db with it on and off. It's definitely working which is neat to see This was at -10db MV with my subs 10db hot after Audyssey. How's it look?
What are those graphs of, and what was your process of capturing them?

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post #90 of 8847 Old 08-14-2018, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
Use rephase instead which lets you create any combination of filters you like. This would also let you import the avg and/or peak curve into it so you see the effects on that directly.
I tried rephase but do you know of a way to see the result in a numerical format? I'm intrigued by the possibility of importing the PvA graph and then EQing that directly. I've been thinking about a way to semi-automate the BEQ process, but I need to be able to export the results from rephase in order to use it in that process. Otherwise, my best bet might be my modified biquad spreadsheet and either Solver or, if necessary, some VBA code. I can modify the biquad spreadsheet to allow combinations of different filters, and did so to a limited extent when I combined a LS with a HPF in one of my BEQs.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
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