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post #2041 of 8117 Old 11-04-2018, 04:54 PM
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Here are the peak spectrum graphs for the first 4 episodes of Daredevil Season 3...

Episode 1:



Episode 2:



Episode 3:



Episode 4:

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post #2042 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 01:53 AM
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Adding low shelf in windows software like APO Equlizer and similiar to the sound in a video, will that affect the Phase response in the bass? Im hoping not...

Im asking as I now have several subs in my room that are working together perfect, and when I run a sinus sweep 10hz to 100 hz, my curve is the way I want it in my sweetspot ..... So they are in harmony together
Im just worried if I use software windows equlizers like the APO EQ, and adding a couple low shelf filter, that it will mess with the phase of the bass output from my receiver.... Hoping it wont effect it...

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post #2043 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hundrakg View Post
Adding low shelf in windows software like APO Equlizer and similiar to the sound in a video, will that affect the Phase response in the bass? Im hoping not...

Im asking as I now have several subs in my room that are working together perfect, and when I run a sinus sweep 10hz to 100 hz, my curve is the way I want it in my sweetspot ..... So they are in harmony together
Im just worried if I use software windows equlizers like the APO EQ, and adding a couple low shelf filter, that it will mess with the phase of the bass output from my receiver.... Hoping it wont effect it...
I'm not as experienced as a lot of people on this forum, but I'm pretty sure that won't happen with that particular software, especially with BEQ.

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post #2044 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperFist View Post
I'm not as experienced as a lot of people on this forum, but I'm pretty sure that won't happen with that particular software, especially with BEQ.
It also applies to you, using software like JRiver....

But I dont think a small phase shift/change should matter as the relationship between your subwoofers reamains the same even if the software changes the phase a small amount(if you have more then one subwoofer off different type/brand/size, its allready calibrated together, nothing can change that)...

If the phase shifts a couple degrees in one given frequency it will do it in the software and the same phase shift will then be added to the receivers wich will output the sama again to your subs.... What Im trying to say is: if any phaseshift is applied by low shelf filter in the bass area, it will be the same amount of phaseshift to all the subs, therefore it should not matter as the subs allready are calibrated together.... So the spl output should remain the same even if you have 4 diferent subs calibrated together.

But what could be bad here, if the phase shift is big, then you would here it when playing music, the bass punch will not be as accurate as before...

I think I read somwhere that this doesent happen to software EQ/BEQ/PEQ in windows, this is more of a problem in analog EQ...
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post #2045 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hundrakg View Post
It also applies to you, using software like JRiver....

But I dont think a small phase shift/change should matter as the relationship between your subwoofers reamains the same even if the software changes the phase a small amount(if you have more then one subwoofer off different type/brand/size, its allready calibrated together, nothing can change that)...

If the phase shifts a couple degrees in one given frequency it will do it in the software and the same phase shift will then be added to the receivers wich will output the sama again to your subs.... What Im trying to say is: if any phaseshift is applied by low shelf filter in the bass area, it will be the same amount of phaseshift to all the subs, therefore it should not matter as the subs allready are calibrated together.... So the spl output should remain the same even if you have 4 diferent subs calibrated together.

But what could be bad here, if the phase shift is big, then you would here it when playing music, the bass punch will not be as accurate as before...

I think I read somwhere that this doesent happen to software EQ/BEQ/PEQ in windows, this is more of a problem in analog EQ...
Interesting. Considering I only use JRiver to play BEQ'd films, which isn't often, I'm not concerned about it. Everything sounds just as punchy in that app, even more with BEQ, than in MPC-HC and PowerDVD 17.

On a side note, it might not matter at all in the near future as my mother is coming to live with me, so I may not be able to hear that awesome bass again! She's really funny about loud sounds, music and doesn't really like movies, but it's something I gotta do so I guess I'll be saying farewell to purchasing a MiniDSP HD on Black Friday. There may even come a point where I'd probably have to sell my subs, but I don't want to jump that gun before I need to!

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post #2046 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 04:28 AM
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I hope your mother changes the approach to movies/bass and playing loud, then you can keep everything

If you have many subs calibrated together, no EQ ever could change anything how they play together, more then the delay. it must be so.... Maybee someone who has more knowledge in this matter can chim in , But Im sure the phase difference between SUB 1 and SUB 2 cant be changed, no matter what the software does.... what can be changed with filters like low shelf in BEQ is the delay, that could be a problem listen to music....
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post #2047 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 06:52 AM
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It could only affect a multisub setup if you applied different filters to each sub.

If you were applying significant change to the mid bass then it could affect the crossover to the mains but most of these filters are much lower in Freq than that.

I find it unlikely that a massive phase shift in the ulf would be more audible than the content change itself.
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post #2048 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperFist View Post

On a side note, it might not matter at all in the near future as my mother is coming to live with me, so I may not be able to hear that awesome bass again! She's really funny about loud sounds, music and doesn't really like movies, but it's something I gotta do so I guess I'll be saying farewell to purchasing a MiniDSP HD on Black Friday. There may even come a point where I'd probably have to sell my subs, but I don't want to jump that gun before I need to!
Keep the Subs, add the miniDSP on BF and get yourself some Crowsons for Christmas

You can use the miniDSP to dial down the sub output channels and turn up the motion actuator channel and it still feels very similar, even at lower volume
...especially rewarding when you load BEQ's where Aron really raised the Single Digit ULF that the Subs never really reached before.

Shaking my seat instead of the entire house has dramatically increased my playtime while wifey is home.
... A Quiet Place late at night with no subs on at all still scares the crap out of me.

The minute she steps out, everything goes back up to full throttle on all channels,
I just have to remember to pick up items that fell off the coffee tables up stairs, straighten picture frames etc.


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post #2049 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
It could only affect a multisub setup if you applied different filters to each sub.

If you were applying significant change to the mid bass then it could affect the crossover to the mains but most of these filters are much lower in Freq than that.

I find it unlikely that a massive phase shift in the ulf would be more audible than the content change itself.
That was my own thoughts to, this helps.. thanks....
Now I will try out some low shelf filters..
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post #2050 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 10:57 AM
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Updated to Atmos...

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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
BassEQ The Meg (2018) Atmos



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post #2051 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 11:26 AM
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So if EQ is applied at the signal level before the AVRs own eq distance and level, JRiver for example it shouldn’t affect phase too much?

I’ve been wondering about this too since I use Jrivers PEQ for both my house curve and BEQ.

I’ve seen people ditch peq for convolution instead for that very reason though.
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post #2052 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
So if EQ is applied at the signal level before the AVRs own eq distance and level, JRiver for example it shouldn’t affect phase too much?

I’ve been wondering about this too since I use Jrivers PEQ for both my house curve and BEQ.

I’ve seen people ditch peq for convolution instead for that very reason though.
If you apply different filters to different subs, you will affect phase on each of them differently and thus will affect the phase interaction.

If you apply the same filters to all subs (this is what I recommend anyway) the phase changes will affect all of them equally so they will interact the same as they did before the filters were added. As @3ll3d00d mentioned, there's still the possibility of it changing the phase interaction between your subs and mains, since the filters are only affecting one of those but not the other, but the BEQ filters shouldn't be affecting phase near the crossover point.
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post #2053 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 12:18 PM
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Updated to Atmos...
From 11 to 8 bands: much better

I realize it is not always possible/best, but if you could try to keep number of used bands a low as possible, it would make it easier to use.

Would for example fewer, higher LS filters and then a bigger overshoot comp filter give the same curve ?

In my case i have all 6 bands on the input side available for BEQ, but on the output i have none for my nearfields(used for auto-EQ in REW+ house curve), and only 3 available on the farfields( house curve+small PEQ’s).

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post #2054 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
BEQ Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (2001) DTS:X

LS 18Hz Q0.7 5dB x 5 (25dB total)


Making my way through the revamped DTS:X Harry Potters. I've watched the 1st and 2nd so far and very much looking forward to the rest...

WOW what a treat, especially with BEQ!!! The sound design on these Potters are amazing and so IMMERSIVE. LOTs of very cool area's in both of these first two films, but I think one of my favorites parts was in the 1rst one when the 3 of them are in there with all the keys flying around and Harry chases one down on the broom. The use of Atmos surround is just so cool with all the keys and with that broom zooming around (with some real nice heft and weight as well when the broom passes by). Then right after that, the chess game. So freaking cool with BEQ!!! I've seen this 4 or 5 times or more over the years on my different systems, but nothing like this with BEQ and (DTS:X or course). Really was like watching it for the first time. LOTS of superbly used ULF (or what was brought back from the dead with BEQ) I thought that just added so much to the game. Made those chess pieces feel HUGE and heavy, like they really could crush you like a fly.

I'm still amazed at what ULF weight and feel can bring to all these tracks!

BEQ Rulez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We be so lucky to have this thread Thanks again guys for all the work you put in on it. Those first pages look great too with the growing list and all the info. Awesome job keeping up with it Pio! You've got a real knack for making the posts with all the info look good

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post #2055 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
From 11 to 8 bands: much better

I realize it is not always possible/best, but if you could try to keep number of used bands a low as possible, it would make it easier to use.

Would for example fewer, higher LS filters and then a bigger overshoot comp filter give the same curve ?

In my case i have all 6 bands on the input side available for BEQ, but on the output i have none for my nearfields(used for auto-EQ in REW+ house curve), and only 3 available on the farfields( house curve+small PEQ’s).
I do try to keep the number down, but I also try not to exceed 5dB on any filters either. In cases where you don't have enough filters to enter what I have in the BEQ, you can transform them into fewer filters but stronger. For example, turn 5dB x 6 into 6dB x 5 or similar. I'd also recommend transforming higher frequency filters first since they are lower risk as far as biquad coefficient precision.
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post #2056 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
So if EQ is applied at the signal level before the AVRs own eq distance and level, JRiver for example it shouldn’t affect phase too much?

I’ve been wondering about this too since I use Jrivers PEQ for both my house curve and BEQ.

I’ve seen people ditch peq for convolution instead for that very reason though.
The filters used in this thread are minimum phase filters so they affect both phase and magnitude greatly, one describes the other in fact. Minimum phase is a normal desirable quality in a speaker though. I think you are confusing the use of linear phase crossovers and phase correcting filters when we talk about the phase response though as the point of such filters is (typically) to push your speakers closer to the goal of a minimum phase response (as opposed to seeking a genuinely linear phase response).
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Making my way through the revamped DTS:X Harry Potters. I've watched the 1st and 2nd so far and very much looking forward to the rest...

WOW what a treat, especially with BEQ!!! The sound design on these Potters are amazing and so IMMERSIVE. LOTs of very cool area's in both of these first two films, but I think one of my favorites parts was in the 1rst one when the 3 of them are in there with all the keys flying around and Harry chases one down on the broom. The use of Atmos surround is just so cool with all the keys and with that broom zooming around (with some real nice heft and weight as well when the broom passes by). Then right after that, the chess game. So freaking cool with BEQ!!! I've seen this 4 or 5 times or more over the years on my different systems, but nothing like this with BEQ and (DTS:X or course). Really was like watching it for the first time. LOTS of superbly used ULF (or what was brought back from the dead with BEQ) I thought that just added so much to the game. Made those chess pieces feel HUGE and heavy, like they really could crush you like a fly.

I'm still amazed at what ULF weight and feel can bring to all these tracks!

BEQ Rulez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We be so lucky to have this thread Thanks again guys for all the work you put in on it. Those first pages look great too with the growing list and all the info. Awesome job keeping up with it Pio! You've got a real knack for making the posts with all the info look good
Funny you should mention it's like seeing them for the First Time,

...I've never purchased any of the HP series on Bluray or 4K,
But I'm pretty sure this is the year I'll finally cave in on Black Friday and get the set now that I'm BEQ/Crowson enabled.

... I may even splurge on the 4K Steelbook collection (release date is tomorrow)
[EDIT NOTE: Just placed my Order! ]

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Harry...lu-ray/219186/

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post #2058 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Making my way through the revamped DTS:X Harry Potters. I've watched the 1st and 2nd so far and very much looking forward to the rest...

WOW what a treat, especially with BEQ!!! The sound design on these Potters are amazing and so IMMERSIVE. LOTs of very cool area's in both of these first two films, but I think one of my favorites parts was in the 1rst one when the 3 of them are in there with all the keys flying around and Harry chases one down on the broom. The use of Atmos surround is just so cool with all the keys and with that broom zooming around (with some real nice heft and weight as well when the broom passes by). Then right after that, the chess game. So freaking cool with BEQ!!! I've seen this 4 or 5 times or more over the years on my different systems, but nothing like this with BEQ and (DTS:X or course). Really was like watching it for the first time. LOTS of superbly used ULF (or what was brought back from the dead with BEQ) I thought that just added so much to the game. Made those chess pieces feel HUGE and heavy, like they really could crush you like a fly.

I'm still amazed at what ULF weight and feel can bring to all these tracks!
Excellent to hear! I haven't watched any of them since Deathly Hallows came out and I've been holding off watching these since I got them. I've been waiting to get my atmos speakers installed first to get the full effect and get as close to a first time experience that I can.
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post #2059 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 04:17 PM
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Funny you should mention it's like seeing them for the First Time,

...I've never purchased any of the HP series on Bluray or 4K,
But I'm pretty sure this is the year I'll finally cave in on Black Friday and get the set now that I'm BEQ/Crowson enabled.

... I may even splurge on the 4K Steelbook collection (release date is tomorrow)
Cool, Man you are in for a treat then (you too @DesertDog ). Potter was made for DTS:X (or Atmos speaker setup) IMO. The world of magic really does spring to life with all its sound effects. Creatures, goblins, spells, even the theme song, you name, it just sounds ...well magical with a multi speaker setup Even without the BEQ I'm sure it would be awesome and is easy to get caught up/lost in their world. BUT that added low end with BEQ, and I mean really low a lot of times just brings a whole new depth and fullness to these potter films.

If these first two were this good, I cant wait to see/hear how they progress and the ones towards the end are. I'm thinking they are probably just going to get better and better. But, that keys and chess scene will be hard to top in my book. Hopefully lots more stuff like that. In the 2nd one there is a section where there are a bunch of little blue creatures flying around the classroom that was pretty wicked sounding too (a lot like the keys in the 1rst). I forget what they called them, but the sound effects of them little things flying all over the room was way cool!!
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post #2060 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 04:55 PM
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Request for BEQ 'The Meg' atmos mix. Thanks. Not sure if its the same as the dd5.1 mix.

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post #2061 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 04:58 PM
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Cool, Man you are in for a treat
Told you
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post #2062 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Request for BEQ 'The Meg' atmos mix. Thanks. Not sure if its the same as the dd5.1 mix.

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LOL! ... look up about 10 replies above your post

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57065006
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post #2063 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 06:12 PM
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Cool, Man you are in for a treat then (you too @DesertDog ). Potter was made for DTS:X (or Atmos speaker setup) IMO. The world of magic really does spring to life with all its sound effects. Creatures, goblins, spells, even the theme song, you name, it just sounds ...well magical with a multi speaker setup Even without the BEQ I'm sure it would be awesome and is easy to get caught up/lost in their world. BUT that added low end with BEQ, and I mean really low a lot of times just brings a whole new depth and fullness to these potter films.

If these first two were this good, I cant wait to see/hear how they progress and the ones towards the end are. I'm thinking they are probably just going to get better and better. But, that keys and chess scene will be hard to top in my book. Hopefully lots more stuff like that. In the 2nd one there is a section where there are a bunch of little blue creatures flying around the classroom that was pretty wicked sounding too (a lot like the keys in the 1rst). I forget what they called them, but the sound effects of them little things flying all over the room was way cool!!
I might have to mute you! My plan right now is to try do get my atmos speakers done the week of thanksgiving since I'm off work that week. If you keep stuff like this up I might go crazy waiting for it.

There's a ton of scenes in the Potter movie that I can picture the height speakers really well for. Hogwarts was a lot of vertical sets.
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post #2064 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 06:22 PM
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I know this is the Bass EQ for movies, but in a round about way it's improved my music listening. I haven't done any custom filters for music or anything, but after buying a miniDSP 2x4 HD and finally learning a little about REW, I've been able to EQ my subs so much flatter (and stronger at 20 Hz). Even though most music doesn't go super deep, without the big hump I had at 40 Hz and no longer being down a bunch at 20 Hz music is both cleaner and punchier. I've been watching so many movies since this thread started that this weekend was the first time in a while that I did any extended music listening. Without this thread I probably wouldn't have purchased the DSP or learned how poor my previous equalization was. So another thumbs up for aron7awol, 3ll3dood, PioManiac, and everyone else involved with this thread!
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post #2065 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this is the Bass EQ for movies, but in a round about way it's improved my music listening. I haven't done any custom filters for music or anything, but after buying a miniDSP 2x4 HD and finally learning a little about REW, I've been able to EQ my subs so much flatter (and stronger at 20 Hz). Even though most music doesn't go super deep, without the big hump I had at 40 Hz and no longer being down a bunch at 20 Hz music is both cleaner and punchier. I've been watching so many movies since this thread started that this weekend was the first time in a while that I did any extended music listening. Without this thread I probably wouldn't have purchased the DSP or learned how poor my previous equalization was. So another thumbs up for aron7awol, 3ll3dood, PioManiac, and everyone else involved with this thread!
Hans Zimmer Live from Prague and Roger Waters: The Wall changed my mind for what BEQ could do for Music.
...the only Two discs in my extensive collection of Bluray (and 4K's) that I play at "0" MV and its pure audio ear candy.

The majority of my movie collection gets played at -15 to -20 MV on my Yamaha

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post #2066 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
So if EQ is applied at the signal level before the AVRs own eq distance and level, JRiver for example it shouldn’t affect phase too much?

I’ve been wondering about this too since I use Jrivers PEQ for both my house curve and BEQ.

I’ve seen people ditch peq for convolution instead for that very reason though.
If you apply different filters to different subs, you will affect phase on each of them differently and thus will affect the phase interaction.

If you apply the same filters to all subs (this is what I recommend anyway) the phase changes will affect all of them equally so they will interact the same as they did before the filters were added. As @3ll3d00d mentioned, there's still the possibility of it changing the phase interaction between your subs and mains, since the filters are only affecting one of those but not the other, but the BEQ filters shouldn't be affecting phase near the crossover point.
.

Thanks. I only have 1 sub so I was wondering how the eq would change phase between the mains and the sub.

I thought having the eq before the AVR would mean that the phase would still be corrected for in the AVRs distance settings.

As it is with my house curve alone I have to flip phase to 180 and still add 1 metre to the sub to get it in phase with the mains at the crossover of 100hz.
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post #2067 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
.

Thanks. I only have 1 sub so I was wondering how the eq would change phase between the mains and the sub.

I thought having the eq before the AVR would mean that the phase would still be corrected for in the AVRs distance settings.

As it is with my house curve alone I have to flip phase to 180 and still add 1 metre to the sub to get it in phase with the mains at the crossover of 100hz.
Yes, remember that phase will vary by frequency, and applying a filter at a low frequency will not affect the phase at a higher frequency. Your 100Hz crossover should be unaffected. If you want to see it for yourself, run a couple low-level sweeps, one as-is and one with some shelves at 20Hz or so.
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post #2068 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 11:26 PM
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I see dBFS on the left side, some movies have peaks up to almost -5db, while others ar normally around -15 to -20db....
If applying lowshelf filters, is it ok to raise the "peak value" a bit for movies with lower peaks like -20db? maybee rise it to -15db

And where is the limit when sound gets distorted, -0db?

My question is for software like APO eq an JRiver, where the filters are applied before it leaves HTPC/ HDMI to receiver.. if that matters..
Also is there a way to tell if the level is to high, check someway?
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post #2069 of 8117 Old 11-05-2018, 11:57 PM
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I see dBFS on the left side, some movies have peaks up to almost -5db, while others ar normally around -15 to -20db....
If applying lowshelf filters, is it ok to raise the "peak value" a bit for movies with lower peaks like -20db? maybee rise it to -15db

And where is the limit when sound gets distorted, -0db?

My question is for software like APO eq an JRiver, where the filters are applied before it leaves HTPC/ HDMI to receiver.. if that matters..
Also is there a way to tell if the level is to high, check someway?
mix to mono in this app is done in a way that guarantees the signal will not clip during summation. The amount of attenuation applied is more than most (all?) typical bass management routines would apply so if you were to push it to 0 then you may find yourself clipping in your real signal chain. However this isn't really practical anyway as the goal is more like restoring a smooth (full bandwidth) level to the signal rather than just turning it up to 11.

The other thing is that clipping occurs in the waveform not in a frequency response chart and you will most likely clip that well before you get to 0 on the chart. The app has the tools to show this (in audio analysis or in the latest beta).
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post #2070 of 8117 Old 11-06-2018, 01:01 AM
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@hundrakg this build fixes the hpf display issue -> https://github.com/3ll3d00d/beqdesig...g/0.5.0-beta.3
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