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post #61 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Called SVS, we went thru AVR to make sure settings ok
the only change was LPF to LFE from 80hz where I had to increase to 120hz

they saying possible damage to amps? Both of them?? Seems nearly unthinkable but I guess its possible....


Going to take @Montucky suggestion and turn off one Sub

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post #62 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
Dont disagree, but they should be substantially better than petty HSU VTF2s
i may have missed it earlier but are you using RCA or XLR cables?

sounds like a pre-out voltage issue if your not hearing any output
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post #63 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 04:02 PM
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SVS PB13 Ultras just set up-- not overly impressed, What am I Missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
After PB13 Ultra's delivered on Monday, had to wait for my son to help when he got to house yesterday.



Finally, set them up and started to play with them. I had the HSU VTF2 MK5s. These subs do create some difficulty now in my configuration with the Emotiva T2 towers due to their size.

(See pics)

Before I could fit the HSU and EMotiva's in the corner, now I cant rather have to put the T2s in the front of cabinet



But, I am not seeing that big of a difference in sound vs. HSU's
. A little bit yes, but not dramatic enought for the $3K cost for duals. I'm going to play with them a little more but now I'm thinking about ordering the Monolith 15s while I have the SVS PB 13Ultra's here to do a head to head. Is there something I'm not doing right? My florida room also is a nightmare with all the glass but HSUs just seem to be more efficient.



I had the SVS volume at 0, and now calibrated to -10 but haven't played them since changing -10 as I will this weekend.

Also have all crossovers at 80, lpf>lfe at 80



Option 1, just return the SVS subs and keep the HSU's be happy with those subs as they do make the room less crowded and aesthetically more pleasing.

Option 2, order Monolith 15s do head to heard (little worried in Mono's not better now have to pay $300+ for shipping back)



I didnt want to spend more than 3K on subs because its not worth it with the little bit of HT usage per month....but I do want that awesome experience when I do.

Im not a big user of subs, maybe 4-6x per month for movies...that's about it.



I'm asking for any suggestions?? Help? Opinions....



Thanks





NOTE: Pics 1st is back of Florida room which is like 35-40 length, 14 feet wide

2nd pic- up closer to see configuration


There are a lot of things to look at here but if your receiver set the subs to -10 it’s very likely you will want them about 3-8 dB higher than that to have any fun at all.

For a room that size the smaller diameter woofers in the PB will not be able to produce that Thor’s hammer effect when explosions hit, monster footsteps etc depending on where your bass nulls are located.

Room placement makes a huge difference as well. Manual EQ can help smooth out the response and I generally find I do not like the way my subs sound letting Audyssey or other “auto” room correction algorithm EQ them.

Anyway for now I would suggest looking at JTR subs for your room. The 18” Captivator S1 are quite small for an 18” woofer”. Other great brands with very high performance are Seaton sound, Funk Audio and Power Sound Audio.

If space is your primary concern, dual JL Audio F113 are awesome but very pricey ($6,000 each?).


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post #64 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
Called SVS, we went thru AVR to make sure settings ok
the only change was LPF to LFE from 80hz where I had to increase to 120hz

they saying possible damage to amps? Both of them?? Seems nearly unthinkable but I guess its possible....


Going to take @Montucky suggestion and turn off one Sub
Welp, that didnt work either. 1 sub off still produces mediocre performance from the one sub on.

Set up #1 Speakers LRC: Emotiva T2 & C2, Rears: Emotiva B1, Subs (2) 2019 JTR 118HTs, Receiver: Marantz SR5012, 7.2,100 Watt, AMP: Outlaw5000
Set up #2 Son's Room: QA3020i LR, Emotiva C1 Center, Denon AVR, Subs (2) HSU VTF2 MK5,
Set up #3 Elab B6 2.0 Debut w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #4 QA3020 w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #5 Chane's A1.4 w Fosi Audio 50W amp
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post #65 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
i may have missed it earlier but are you using RCA or XLR cables?

sounds like a pre-out voltage issue if your not hearing any output
I have some output, just not at a decent level, rather mediocre.

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Set up #2 Son's Room: QA3020i LR, Emotiva C1 Center, Denon AVR, Subs (2) HSU VTF2 MK5,
Set up #3 Elab B6 2.0 Debut w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #4 QA3020 w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #5 Chane's A1.4 w Fosi Audio 50W amp
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post #66 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
Called SVS, we went thru AVR to make sure settings ok
the only change was LPF to LFE from 80hz where I had to increase to 120hz

they saying possible damage to amps? Both of them?? Seems nearly unthinkable but I guess its possible....


Going to take @Montucky suggestion and turn off one Sub
Try just one of the subs. Up the trim in your AVR to about -4db, go to youtube and play some of the bassotronic or bassmekanik stuff or even the EOT intro. Walk around the room to see if there is any difference. Maybe move that one sub into the middle of your front wall in front of your stand just for the heck of it.

If still no joy then return them. Too bad there are no PC13Us in the outlet. They would have fit in the same spot as your HSUs.

Maybe get another pair of the VTF2s and place them on top of your currents VTFs. You'd get a really nice overall gain above 20hz for just another $1200.
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post #67 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 04:10 PM
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if all settings in avr correct...double check sub cable connections and/or try different inputs like lfe in or line input...otherwise I guess send em back....do the hsu subs still work?
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
if all settings in avr correct...double check sub cable connections and/or try different inputs like lfe in or line input...otherwise I guess send em back....do the hsu subs still work?
Yes no probs with HSU subs. Prob hook those back up.

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post #69 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 04:14 PM
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You can look at data-bass.com in the measurement section and compare response graphs of many, but not all subs. You will notice how well JTR perform. I think the Captivator S1 is $2,400 plus shipping.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Try just one of the subs. Up the trim in your AVR to about -4db, go to youtube and play some of the bassotronic or bassmekanik stuff or even the EOT intro. Walk around the room to see if there is any difference. Maybe move that one sub into the middle of your front wall in front of your stand just for the heck of it.

If still no joy then return them. Too bad there are no PC13Us in the outlet. They would have fit in the same spot as your HSUs.

Maybe get another pair of the VTF2s and place them on top of your currents VTFs. You'd get a really nice overall gain above 20hz for just another $1200.
That might be good idea. Go with 4 VTF2s. These VTF2s hardly used only like 2 mos total.

Set up #1 Speakers LRC: Emotiva T2 & C2, Rears: Emotiva B1, Subs (2) 2019 JTR 118HTs, Receiver: Marantz SR5012, 7.2,100 Watt, AMP: Outlaw5000
Set up #2 Son's Room: QA3020i LR, Emotiva C1 Center, Denon AVR, Subs (2) HSU VTF2 MK5,
Set up #3 Elab B6 2.0 Debut w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #4 QA3020 w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #5 Chane's A1.4 w Fosi Audio 50W amp
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post #71 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
I have some output, just not at a decent level, rather mediocre.

Did you try cranking the sub level in your receiver ? Are you sure you don’t have dynamic range reduction on or any other processing in your receiver that could tame the bass output?


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post #72 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
I have some output, just not at a decent level, rather mediocre.
that’s why i think it sounds like a preout voltagebissue.

do you have the input selector switch to the right cable type (xlr/rca)?
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post #73 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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@madhuski yes I have the right cable, input from sub pre out, to the left input on sub


Anyhow, its all done!! Something was wrong with both subs, they were outlet specials so who knows?? I literally just plugged in the HSU VTF2s, the whole room shaking and AC vent in ceiling next shaking.
I definitely should've heard that minimum with PB 13s

We packed up the PB13 Ultras, I'll call SVS tomorrow to pick up.

I've decided what I will do is get 2 more HSU VTF2s and stack them. This will actually work best because I can fit the towers and VTF2s in the corner and not have to worry about the Emotiva T2s placement.

This was a total pain in the ass, but I just want to thank everybody for trying to help me. Trust me it is greatly appreciated.

Set up #1 Speakers LRC: Emotiva T2 & C2, Rears: Emotiva B1, Subs (2) 2019 JTR 118HTs, Receiver: Marantz SR5012, 7.2,100 Watt, AMP: Outlaw5000
Set up #2 Son's Room: QA3020i LR, Emotiva C1 Center, Denon AVR, Subs (2) HSU VTF2 MK5,
Set up #3 Elab B6 2.0 Debut w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #4 QA3020 w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #5 Chane's A1.4 w Fosi Audio 50W amp
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post #74 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 05:20 PM
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If you would, please update with any feedback from SVS regarding whether the subs were defective or not.
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post #75 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
@madhuski yes I have the right cable, input from sub pre out, to the left input on sub


Anyhow, its all done!! Something was wrong with both subs, they were outlet specials so who knows?? I literally just plugged in the HSU VTF2s, the whole room shaking and AC vent in ceiling next shaking.
I definitely should've heard that minimum with PB 13s

We packed up the PB13 Ultras, I'll call SVS tomorrow to pick up.

I've decided what I will do is get 2 more HSU VTF2s and stack them. This will actually work best because I can fit the towers and VTF2s in the corner and not have to worry about the Emotiva T2s placement.

This was a total pain in the ass, but I just want to thank everybody for trying to help me. Trust me it is greatly appreciated.

Sorry to hear nothing remedied the situation. Still think something wasn't set correctly. I believe those outlet PB13's were new stock close-outs. The chances of getting two of them that exhibited the same amp issue are probably slightly better odds than getting struck by lightning.
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post #76 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 05:27 PM
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I’ve had a similar problem. When I got my first PSA V1500 the performance was incredibly underwhelming. My 20 year old 12” velodyne smoked it. For days I went through every setting there was, ran Audyssey a dozen times, moved the sub all over the room. It just wasn’t working properly. I got all the same advice you’re getting now like “your subs are canceling each other out”. Out of pure frustration I started flipping through listening modes on my AVR (stereo, Dolby, dts). When I flipped it to DTS X Neural the 15” roared to life and never had an issue like that again. There was something funky about the signal my AVR was sending to the sub - to this day I really don’t get it.

If / when you get your subs dialed in I would strongly recommend putting them nearfield behind the couch. That room looks like a place that bass goes to die. I have an even larger and more open floor plan so I can relate. I resisted nearfield placement for a while but in a room like that, it’s the way to go. Leaving the subs up front and putting the HSU subs behind your couch would also be a good option.

The comment a few pages back about the cone material being to blame is AVS comedy gold, btw.

Good luck. Try not to get overly frustrated by this. It’s a minor setback that you’ll get past. If you do end up returning the SVS for whatever reason I’d strongly recommend looking at some 18” subs for that room. You have the budget for some serious firepower from a smaller ID company.

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post #77 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gob Bluth View Post
I’ve had a similar problem. When I got my first PSA V1500 the performance was incredibly underwhelming. My 20 year old 12” velodyne smoked it. For days I went through every setting there was, ran Audyssey a dozen times, moved the sub all over the room. It just wasn’t working properly. I got all the same advice you’re getting now like “your subs are canceling each other out”. Out of pure frustration I started flipping through listening modes on my AVR (stereo, Dolby, dts). When I flipped it to DTS X Neural the 15” roared to life and never had an issue like that again. There was something funky about the signal my AVR was sending to the sub - to this day I really don’t get it.



If / when you get your subs dialed in I would strongly recommend putting them nearfield behind the couch. That room looks like a place that bass goes to die. I have an even larger and more open floor plan so I can relate. I resisted nearfield placement for a while but in a room like that, it’s the way to go. Leaving the subs up front and putting the HSU subs behind your couch would also be a good option.



The comment a few pages back about the cone material being to blame is AVS comedy gold, btw.



Good luck. Try not to get overly frustrated by this. It’s a minor setback that you’ll get past. If you do end up returning the SVS for whatever reason I’d strongly recommend looking at some 18” subs for that room. You have the budget for some serious firepower from a smaller ID company.


I agree. It is extremely unlikely that both subs are not working properly and I bet it is a setting in the AVR.


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post #78 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
@madhuski yes I have the right cable, input from sub pre out, to the left input on sub


Anyhow, its all done!! Something was wrong with both subs, they were outlet specials so who knows?? I literally just plugged in the HSU VTF2s, the whole room shaking and AC vent in ceiling next shaking.
I definitely should've heard that minimum with PB 13s

We packed up the PB13 Ultras, I'll call SVS tomorrow to pick up.

I've decided what I will do is get 2 more HSU VTF2s and stack them. This will actually work best because I can fit the towers and VTF2s in the corner and not have to worry about the Emotiva T2s placement.

This was a total pain in the ass, but I just want to thank everybody for trying to help me. Trust me it is greatly appreciated.

sorry, not to belabor it, but you had the right input selected on the selctor switch on th seldge amp? ("normal" iirc)
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post #79 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 06:01 PM
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Curious if you can confirm good driver movement in both SVS's?? If there is then amps are probably just fine and its some sort of set up issue going on. If little driver movement, that would explain lack of performance. Hard to believe two bad amps, but hey anything is possible.

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post #80 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Curious if you can confirm good driver movement in both SVS's?? If there is then amps are probably just fine and its some sort of set up issue going on. If little driver movement, that would explain lack of performance. Hard to believe two bad amps, but hey anything is possible.
Minor driver movement. I could feel vibration but no noticeable driver movement.

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Set up #3 Elab B6 2.0 Debut w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #4 QA3020 w Fosi Audio amp 50W Set up #5 Chane's A1.4 w Fosi Audio 50W amp
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post #81 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
sorry, not to belabor it, but you had the right input selected on the selctor switch on th seldge amp? ("normal" iirc)
yes I did ....I went thru everything like 5x on both the subs and AVR

As I just answered, I thought it was weird drivers weren't really moving but very minor....could see vibrations but nothing when I put the VTF2s back up...those drivers were movin good

Set up #1 Speakers LRC: Emotiva T2 & C2, Rears: Emotiva B1, Subs (2) 2019 JTR 118HTs, Receiver: Marantz SR5012, 7.2,100 Watt, AMP: Outlaw5000
Set up #2 Son's Room: QA3020i LR, Emotiva C1 Center, Denon AVR, Subs (2) HSU VTF2 MK5,
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post #82 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gob Bluth View Post
I’ve had a similar problem. When I got my first PSA V1500 the performance was incredibly underwhelming. My 20 year old 12” velodyne smoked it. For days I went through every setting there was, ran Audyssey a dozen times, moved the sub all over the room. It just wasn’t working properly. I got all the same advice you’re getting now like “your subs are canceling each other out”. Out of pure frustration I started flipping through listening modes on my AVR (stereo, Dolby, dts). When I flipped it to DTS X Neural the 15” roared to life and never had an issue like that again. There was something funky about the signal my AVR was sending to the sub - to this day I really don’t get it.

If / when you get your subs dialed in I would strongly recommend putting them nearfield behind the couch. That room looks like a place that bass goes to die. I have an even larger and more open floor plan so I can relate. I resisted nearfield placement for a while but in a room like that, it’s the way to go. Leaving the subs up front and putting the HSU subs behind your couch would also be a good option.

The comment a few pages back about the cone material being to blame is AVS comedy gold, btw.

Good luck. Try not to get overly frustrated by this. It’s a minor setback that you’ll get past. If you do end up returning the SVS for whatever reason I’d strongly recommend looking at some 18” subs for that room. You have the budget for some serious firepower from a smaller ID company.
Actually, the VTFs that I put back in place after packing the PB 13s, were rocking. I basically put volume at 75% vs. 50% what I normally had. I was in my bathroom and those things were shaking the house.
They actually work pretty good. I"m considering adding two more VTF2s now and stack them.....??

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post #83 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Did you try cranking the sub level in your receiver ? Are you sure you don’t have dynamic range reduction on or any other processing in your receiver that could tame the bass output?


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I dont think I did because the minute I put the HSU's back in place, everything was fine??? I'll never know at this point what problem was unless when SVS gets the return they say it was AMP problem

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post #84 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 06:22 PM
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all I know is I would be pissed if got 2 hvy subs I need to return...with my handicap status I would have to pay some to ship em back
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post #85 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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all I know is I would be pissed if got 2 hvy subs I need to return...with my handicap status I would have to pay some to ship em back
Not fun believe me.

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post #86 of 168 Old 08-09-2018, 06:34 PM
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Minor driver movement. I could feel vibration but no noticeable driver movement.
Ok as rare as it would be with aggressive gain and no driver movement on both subs and then the HSU's pounding,,,, i guess it is what it is,,,, sounds like bad amps. That sucks man sorry you had to go through that.
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post #87 of 168 Old 08-10-2018, 05:58 AM
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That's a bummer. Sorry you had to go through all that nonsense if it ended up just being some bad amps. The odds are astronomical to end up with two bad amps, but I suppose that could be what it is. Wish I was in your locale to help you! We could've physically tested the amp board. Way easier than packing those beasts back up and getting shipped back out.
Actually that does remind me. If you're willing to do the work, SVS will gladly send you a new amp for you to swap if that's what they determined it most likely is. Would you be willing to try that? It's super easy actually. Just a handful of screws and a couple of wires to unplug/plug back in. You could do it in like 10 minutes tops. Might be worth a shot if you're willing to give SVS one last chance. If it were me, I'd go that route first before lugging those things out.
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post #88 of 168 Old 08-10-2018, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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That's a bummer. Sorry you had to go through all that nonsense if it ended up just being some bad amps. The odds are astronomical to end up with two bad amps, but I suppose that could be what it is. Wish I was in your locale to help you! We could've physically tested the amp board. Way easier than packing those beasts back up and getting shipped back out.
Actually that does remind me. If you're willing to do the work, SVS will gladly send you a new amp for you to swap if that's what they determined it most likely is. Would you be willing to try that? It's super easy actually. Just a handful of screws and a couple of wires to unplug/plug back in. You could do it in like 10 minutes tops. Might be worth a shot if you're willing to give SVS one last chance. If it were me, I'd go that route first before lugging those things out.
Thank you for the help
SVS was great offered
1) new amps I replace
2) send back subs and they replace amps
3) send back subs they send new subs

Ultimately, with all that I went thru I'm going to just send back....I broke these thin pavers I have at front door step, chipped my door, just so many things went wrong I'm just kinda mentally done with this experiment for now.
I've already packed them up with help from my son helping me lift these things on to the styrofoam...

Now, I'm even scared to order new subs lol

But these HSUs are doing a dam good job with the towers
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post #89 of 168 Old 08-10-2018, 06:47 AM
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Not fun believe me.
I don’t believe that the issue here is the amplifier or the sub for that matter.

Last month when I ordered my Monolith 12” all of my subs favorite place was a front corner beside my TV stand, no matter if it was my BIC PL-200 II, Polk PSW505, Monolith 10”, or Monolith 12” they all loved that front corner.

My buddy has a SVS PB-2000, I took him my Monolith 12” & took his PB2K in the meantime and threw it in that front corner...nothing. Absolutely nothing. I called him and made sure he didn’t make me haul this 80lb 12” around for no reason but a giggle but he assured me it shook his room. Remember my room is 9x15 so it should be breaking drywall. It didn’t matter if I had the gain maxed out & the AVR trim at +5 w/ a master volume of 0 it wasn’t doing ****!

I ended up throwing that beast all around my room, different corners, halfway on side walls, middle of the room, anywhere there was open floor space. I pm’d mthomas as well, made a thread, etc. I received the same suggestions you have, something is not right.

After two days I totally rearranged my room, flipped the furniture, moved my seating, throw my TV & setup on the other side of the room & wallah; output! Between my placement & seating I was in a massive null bringing the output down 27dB...27dB!

My point being, every sub I’ve owned loved that one corner until the SVS PB2K didn’t, it created a bass black hole, sucking all output down the abyss. This sounds exactly what you are experiencing. It sounds like you spent more time packing & unpacking than you did trying to integrate the PB13’s. Just because your HSU’s like that front wall doesn’t mean every sub is going to. Also you didn’t even adjust the gain according to your post so I’m curious if you wanted the PB13’s to work in the first place...

You can buy every brand of subwoofer available in the world but, if you don’t find the correct placement, make sure polarity is correct, make sure there’s not phase issues, address nulls & modes, & take the time to properly adjust your system settings, you’re just wasting money whether it be shipping or purchasing them, wasting your time, etc.

It would have been much simpler & easier to find a remedy to your placement issues than packaging both of those big subwoofers. I’m not trying to upset you or sound cynical but, there’s no point in experimenting with other subs if you aren’t willing to accommodate their best placement/settings needs. Yes it is a need. If you expect tremendous output & extension, you’ll have to experiment with different gain settings, different PEQ settings, different phase settings, different phase settings, different AVR settings, & most importantly different placement.

It seems between your front wall & your seating you are experiencing nulls &/or standing waves. Even moving your seating forward or backwards 6”-1’ can fix these issues.

I’d recommend getting these running right, stop worrying about aesthetics so much for now, then once you figure out what the best setup is, go from there.

Anyway I’d be willing to help if you’d want to unpack them but, I don’t see buying a different brand would remedy your room issues.
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post #90 of 168 Old 08-10-2018, 07:02 AM
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^^^

In most cases i would agree with your statement. With aggressive gain on both subs,,, there was no cone movement For subs known for good driver excursion,,,,,, this was not a location issue imo. No driver movement/high gain and avr trim= bad amp when all other trouble shooting remedies had been explored.

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