SVS PB13 Ultras just set up-- not overly impressed, What am I Missing? - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 168 Old 08-14-2018, 03:50 PM
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Here is a thought for you to chew on. I underwent a similar journey as you a couple of years ago. I was a happy and dedicated HSU owner but kept thinking can this be the best bass for the money? SVS must be better based on higher price, right? I test drove SVS and was impressed with the control app and eq which allowed me to dial in tight mid bass, but just could not get the boom and chest crunch I had gotten from HSU. I ran all of the calibrations, moved 200lb subs around the room inch by inch, did the human centipede crawl, had my wife threaten divorce four times in two days, you know the drill.

Bottom line, I discovered I love the sound I was getting from my HSU subs and nothing (science, psychics, or the ghost of Johnny Carson) was going to convince me otherwise.

My advice, if you like how HSU sounds and looks, then stick with HSU. I love mine. I have 2 x 15’s and a 1 (in my office, hehe). I ended up keeping one of the SVS subs as well, the PC-4000, because the form factor was perfect to tuck away in a corner and kill a dead spot I was dealing with after tuning its eq to blend with everything else. Kevin Hsu is also very accessible, a member of AVSForums and has always been a big help when I needed advice.

Good luck with your search for bass heaven, I know where you are.
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post #122 of 168 Old 08-14-2018, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markcdaniel View Post
Here is a thought for you to chew on. I underwent a similar journey as you a couple of years ago. I was a happy and dedicated HSU owner but kept thinking can this be the best bass for the money? SVS must be better based on higher price, right? I test drove SVS and was impressed with the control app and eq which allowed me to dial in tight mid bass, but just could not get the boom and chest crunch I had gotten from HSU. I ran all of the calibrations, moved 200lb subs around the room inch by inch, did the human centipede crawl, had my wife threaten divorce four times in two days, you know the drill.

Bottom line, I discovered I love the sound I was getting from my HSU subs and nothing (science, psychics, or the ghost of Johnny Carson) was going to convince me otherwise.

My advice, if you like how HSU sounds and looks, then stick with HSU. I love mine. I have 2 x 15’s and a 1 (in my office, hehe). I ended up keeping one of the SVS subs as well, the PC-4000, because the form factor was perfect to tuck away in a corner and kill a dead spot I was dealing with after tuning its eq to blend with everything else. Kevin Hsu is also very accessible, a member of AVSForums and has always been a big help when I needed advice.

Good luck with your search for bass heaven, I know where you are.
That's a pretty ironic story Mark. The VTF2s do perform well. I shoul've just went with the VTF3 for front and VTF2s for near mid field.
I've actually decided to splurge on the NEW JTR 118s when they come out. Lets see how these perform. If they don't perform well....then you right just going to call it the day and get the VTF3s.
Thanks for your story.

Everybody thinks I'm crazy on these forums with my story lol
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post #123 of 168 Old 08-14-2018, 04:12 PM
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You need to start over before you make any decisions. Both brands are damn near a complete match with the SVS being slightly above the Hsu. You need to confirm both are in phase with each other level, gain and delay. Looking at your pics, I would have one up front and one in the back making sure both are in phase. You're expectations could be above what the SVS can actually achieve in your room.
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post #124 of 168 Old 08-14-2018, 04:17 PM
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By the way, you can buy an 18 or a 21 inch driver or even dual 18's, but until you figure out this placement issue, you're gonna have the same problem with anything you throw at it.
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post #125 of 168 Old 08-14-2018, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkacdc View Post
By the way, you can buy an 18 or a 21 inch driver or even dual 18's, but until you figure out this placement issue, you're gonna have the same problem with anything you throw at it.
Agree
Like you said, when the new subs come I'm going to put one up front, then one behind couch opposite side of one up front.
I've had 4 diff subs all work good upfront except SVS. Strange but it is what it is with SVS

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post #126 of 168 Old 08-14-2018, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
Agree

Like you said, when the new subs come I'm going to put one up front, then one behind couch opposite side of one up front.

I've had 4 diff subs all work good upfront except SVS. Strange but it is what it is with SVS


The 118s are nice subs. But just know it won’t be cheap to return them as you will pay for inbound shipping and return. You still seem undecided so thought I would point that out in case you did not know. This the same case for HSU but you know about those subs.


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post #127 of 168 Old 08-14-2018, 04:55 PM
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What is your idea of sounding good?? You go from one awesome subwoofer to another awesome subwoofer and spend a ton of money and it's not good?? Makes no sense...you don't tell anyone your goal. Both brands can be adjusted for warmth and fullness or max bass extension. Which is less warm, full and not really good for music listening but great for Home theater.
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post #128 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkacdc View Post
What is your idea of sounding good?? You go from one awesome subwoofer to another awesome subwoofer and spend a ton of money and it's not good?? Makes no sense...you don't tell anyone your goal. Both brands can be adjusted for warmth and fullness or max bass extension. Which is less warm, full and not really good for music listening but great for Home theater.
Primarily using for HT- 80%
The SVS just didnt work out, maybe positioning, but neither worked up front...at least if I had one working up front I could put the other behind couch
Lets see what the JTRs 118s can do

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post #129 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
Primarily using for HT- 80%
The SVS just didnt work out, maybe positioning, but neither worked up front...at least if I had one working up front I could put the other behind couch
Lets see what the JTRs 118s can do
Have you heard back from SVS yet?
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post #130 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 06:01 AM
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Did SVS ever determine whether there were issues with the amps?
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post #131 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Did SVS ever determine whether there were issues with the amps?
Wrote them this morning...haven't heard anything back.

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post #132 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 10:30 AM
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Not sure if this was mentioned, but did you try to change the polarity of one of them?
So one is + and the other is -




From the manual:


Phase Adjustment
Solves sound wave cancellation issues at specific frequencies and perfectly aligns the arrival of
output from speakers and subwoofers to your listening position. Normally set to 0° if the
subwoofer is near the main speakers. Adjusting Phase shifts timing of the subwoofer output to
align with the main speakers or additional subwoofers.
Polarity
In some cases, reversing polarity solves dips or humps at the crossover frequency between a
subwoofer and speaker and can be used to fix bass nulls or overly boomy spots in the listening
area. Reversing the electrical polarity of the subwoofer amplifier makes it so the woofer moves
in when speaker drivers move out and is normally set to positive
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post #133 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 10:35 AM
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After reading many forums involving SVS, I can only imagine how caotic their shipping and receiving department is considering their policy on returns. I would be willing to bet that the odds of you receiving a subwoofer that was previously in someones living room a few days before is about 95% likely. This post would be a good example. 😄
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post #134 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 11:31 AM
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Don't know about anyone else, but this is getting to be like one of those Univision Telenovelas.

Keep the HSU as they seem to work. Add the two additional VTF-3's and you'll be happy as a clam.
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post #135 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by badboi View Post
Don't know about anyone else, but this is getting to be like one of those Univision Telenovelas.

Keep the HSU as they seem to work. Add the two additional VTF-3's and you'll be happy as a clam.
Already put deposit on 2 new JTR 118s
But otherwise, I completely agree with you and should've done this at the onset. HSU works good for me.

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post #136 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
Wrote them this morning...haven't heard anything back.
Take advantage of their live chat that is on the site.

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post #137 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 01:48 PM
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Take advantage of their live chat that is on the site.
That can work great. Or call. They're typically very accessible via phone. I still can't wait to hear what happens when the new subs arrive! Hopefully some good news.
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post #138 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 01:53 PM
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Interesting read. Why hasn't anyone commented on that fabulous ceiling?!
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post #139 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badboi
Don't know about anyone else, but this is getting to be like one of those Univision Telenovelas.

But...I NEED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE JTRs 118 ARRIVE!!!

Seriously. Also, what will SVS answer? And...will the VTF3s really solve anything? I need answers!
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post #140 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 02:26 PM
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Interesting read. Why hasn't anyone commented on that fabulous ceiling?!
Very nice ceiling indeed. First thing that came to my mind when I saw his room was "Zamboni". Yes, his ceiling looks like it is taking care by a Zamboni. It looks more like an Ice Skate Rink

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post #141 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting read. Why hasn't anyone commented on that fabulous ceiling?!
Venetian plaster done by a masterful russian

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post #142 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Just got message from Jack Gilvey
CS Manager

He hasnt heard any results yet but will let me know....
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post #143 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 06:39 PM
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Guys stop and read. He tried one SVS in the same spot as the HSU and the HSU sounded better. On paper it shouldn't. That's not pollarity or cancellation. He tried everything people asked. People claim it's room placement but then the HSU sub should have the same issue in the same spot and doesn't. It could have been amp issues.

OP congrats on the JTR's if that's not an upgrade, well, then you have some magical Hsu subs.
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post #144 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Guys stop and read. He tried one SVS in the same spot as the HSU and the HSU sounded better. On paper it shouldn't. That's not pollarity or cancellation. He tried everything people asked. People claim it's room placement but then the HSU sub should have the same issue in the same spot and doesn't. It could have been amp issues.

OP congrats on the JTR's if that's not an upgrade, well, then you have some magical Hsu subs.
LOL heck I dont care what brand is magical...as long as they boom
Also, few days later my friend brought over JBL 12s, they were good too, driver movement, without my changing a thing from AVR or sub, just plug n play.
Hoping to hear back from SVS next couple days.

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post #145 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Guys stop and read. He tried one SVS in the same spot as the HSU and the HSU sounded better. On paper it shouldn't. That's not pollarity or cancellation. He tried everything people asked. People claim it's room placement but then the HSU sub should have the same issue in the same spot and doesn't. It could have been amp issues.

OP congrats on the JTR's if that's not an upgrade, well, then you have some magical Hsu subs.
No offense @ack_bk but I had the exact same “symptoms” w/ a PB2K. I put it in the exact location my Polk, BIC, & Monolith had shined & had absolutely no output or extension.

Long story short after countless inquiries here & with SVS and a week later of playing with cables & settings I rearranged my entire room, found a new spot via sub crawl & it opened up & started shaking the walls. I’ll look for my thread to edit it in.

It’s possible that it was defective subs but, highly unlikely he had two defective units from SVS.


Here’s my quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Personally the PB2K hasn’t worked well in my room. That’s the only explanation I can come up with. On paper the PB2K & Monolith 12” is almost identical but, it just doesn’t have the output as the Monolith 12”.

I started out just switching them in the same places, my BIC PL-200 II & Monolith 10/12 all three liked the same corner of my room but, once I placed the PB2K there I was losing like 20dB compared to the others. I assume it was a null, although I don’t understand why it would create one by itself.

Nevertheless I moved the subwoofer everywhere I could, at least any open floor space I had & never could get good output. So eventually, about a week later I totally rearranged my room. Furniture, subs, seating, everything. After two rearrangements I finally found its sweet spot. It’s nearfield, about 2’ away from my seating to the right lined half way up the wall.

I finally got the same output it was creating 1” above the box at my seating but, something’s just not right. I don’t know how to explain it. I’ve tried every setup, setting, technique that I know of. It’s like it’s reaching its limit well before it should.

This is my first SVS subwoofer I’ve had in this room..I’m not blaming them per say, I just don’t know if this is what I should expect. It has good extension but, the output is severely limited. Output wise it’s on par w/ my PL-200 II & Monolith 10”.

I mean, the PB2K is a highly regarded subwoofer & every SVS owner I’ve talked to loves their product, I just can’t seem to integrate it well w/ my room. Which we all know every room is different & not everything is going to work w/ a particular room.

Not that it matters, I do not own it. I’m just using it while my buddy borrows my Monolith 12”. He wanted to test the monolith to see if he enjoyed it, which he does as well. Although his room is about double the size of mine & it seems that both work well in his room.
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post #146 of 168 Old 08-15-2018, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sddp View Post
Not sure if this was mentioned, but did you try to change the polarity of one of them?
So one is + and the other is -




From the manual:


Phase Adjustment
Solves sound wave cancellation issues at specific frequencies and perfectly aligns the arrival of
output from speakers and subwoofers to your listening position. Normally set to 0° if the
subwoofer is near the main speakers. Adjusting Phase shifts timing of the subwoofer output to
align with the main speakers or additional subwoofers.
Polarity
In some cases, reversing polarity solves dips or humps at the crossover frequency between a
subwoofer and speaker and can be used to fix bass nulls or overly boomy spots in the listening
area. Reversing the electrical polarity of the subwoofer amplifier makes it so the woofer moves
in when speaker drivers move out and is normally set to positive
I believe SVS CS had me do this if Im not mistaken or somebody on the forum recommended me to do this still no change. Not sure if this would cause lack of driver movement, but essentially thats what I had.

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post #147 of 168 Old 08-16-2018, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Just got a message back from Jack CS Manager at SVS
The subs are functioning normally

Thats all he said

So it wasnt an amp problem.

Have no idea what the issue was....my buddy came 3 days later with his JBL 12" subs, we didnt change one setting we had good lows and driver movements, same with my HSUs
Basically plugged and played both subs up front in the spots I had the HSUs

The last thing I would want is to get another SVS sub and have to deal with same frustration when other brands I fire right up with no issues. At end of day, the SVS subs, while a great reputation, just didnt integrate with either placement, AVR equipment or some other unknown reason.

It happens I g
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post #148 of 168 Old 08-16-2018, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
No offense @ack_bk but I had the exact same “symptoms” w/ a PB2K. I put it in the exact location my Polk, BIC, & Monolith had shined & had absolutely no output or extension.

Long story short after countless inquiries here & with SVS and a week later of playing with cables & settings I rearranged my entire room, found a new spot via sub crawl & it opened up & started shaking the walls. I’ll look for my thread to edit it in.

It’s possible that it was defective subs but, highly unlikely he had two defective units from SVS.


Here’s my quote
I just find it odd that one sub can have such issues with the same room placement as every other sub. Even with just a low tech bass crawl from my main seating postion I am pretty certain where the best placement is in my room, I find it odd that SVS would require someone to completely re-arrange their room/seating for their subs. Strange. I am not saying I don't believe you it just seems this would be a limiting factor for SVS because most people don't have the flexibilty to rearrange their entire room for one particular brand of sub.
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post #149 of 168 Old 08-16-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
The subs are functioning normally

Thats all he said

So it wasnt an amp problem.
Huh. Well, I did think the odds were wildly small that TWO amps would be bad. Still, seems so strange the SVS's didn't play nice at all with your setup.

Did you ever do the subwoofer crawl I suggested before? Where you place the sub on the couch at the MLP?

Either way, it is indeed super strange you weren't at least getting much movement from the sub's cones to begin with. I wonder what kind of voltage your AVR's sub out is putting out and if perhaps your HSU and your buddy's JBLs have higher input sensitivity. Welp, at least you gave it your best. I couldn't blame you for moving on all together. Thanks for the update.
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post #150 of 168 Old 08-16-2018, 09:45 AM
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+1^

I don't get it either. There was aggressive sub gain used on both subs and next to zero driver movement. It wouldn't have mattered where the sub was placed in that scenario. Unless (only room correction) was applied and killed the subs,,, and having it (off) wasn't implemented, i dunno.

Only other possibility as mentioned above is if SVS needs a much higher trim but i dont recall reading that issue before.

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