Since I have to Return PB 13 Ultra's-- Plan B recommendations - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 57 Old 08-11-2018, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AmerCa View Post
I don't know about any tests. I'm just talking about the actual experiences that PSA owners have expressed (and continue to do so). It's just that your comment sounded weird to me.

If you're looking into numbers, I believe JTR subs are the best rated commercial subwoofers. I know they're expensive, but I believe even just one subwoofer will give you more than enough output and extension. At least you'd be sure you have the best of the best.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-ar...l#post56628864

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post #32 of 57 Old 08-11-2018, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
I don't think I follow that conversation, but by all means do what you feel is best for you.

And that JTR 1400 looks very juicy.
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post #33 of 57 Old 08-15-2018, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
You could have kept this going in your other thread

What is the maximum width you have available in the spot where the HSU'are now located? If you have a little more room, a few subs i have looked at for you would be a big step up.

PSA V-1510, just 17" wide.
PSA S-3010, 18" wide and a pair will crush your room
HSU VTF-3MK5, 17.25" wide, big step up.

If you can accommodate 18" geez the S-3010's will do some damage and dig deep.

Edit,,,, one more at 18'W is Rythmik FV15HP.

The PB13 i believe is 21.5"W


I have been watching both of these threads closely as I am thinking of getting 2 of the PB 4000 ( I know, not the same exactly, but close enough).
But this issue has me concerned as there is NO way I could move 300lbs and then movie again to return if they didn't work out.


My questions is, how different would the SVS or any of the subs you guys are mentioning as an alternative compared to my 2 Klipsch R-115SW?


I am not getting the bass I would like as I am running a 9.3.4 ATMOS set up. Obviously with that many speakers, one would need enough bass to compensate. My room is 17 W and 23 Deep
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post #34 of 57 Old 08-15-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sddp View Post
I have been watching both of these threads closely as I am thinking of getting 2 of the PB 4000 ( I know, not the same exactly, but close enough).
But this issue has me concerned as there is NO way I could move 300lbs and then movie again to return if they didn't work out.


My questions is, how different would the SVS or any of the subs you guys are mentioning as an alternative compared to my 2 Klipsch R-115SW?


I am not getting the bass I would like as I am running a 9.3.4 ATMOS set up. Obviously with that many speakers, one would need enough bass to compensate. My room is 17 W and 23 Deep

Either the SVS PB4000's, or the JTR Cap 118HT's, would be a very serious upgrade from your current Klipsch subwoofers. This sort of thing happens from time to time. Someone has an issue with a subwoofer (in this very unusual case with two subwoofers) and people start to pile on. I think it is important to keep this sort of thing in perspective. SVS sells hundreds of these subwoofer models every year. The PB13 is a very reliable subwoofer that has probably sold in the thousands over the last several years. When you put things in that context, the failure rate is very low.

The PB4000 is a very fine subwoofer, with a lot of user control and cool features that most subwoofers don't have. The introductory pricing on the new JTR Cap 118HT, though, with a 1200 watt amp, is a real performance bargain in my opinion. And, once that pricing is gone, it is gone. JTR doesn't do sales. It's a good choice to have. The SVS subs offer a free-trial period with free return shipping. It's a pain to move big subs around, but it's something that most of us accept as part of the hobby. But, the new 118's are going to be very strong performers--even stronger than the PB4000's. As I said--a good choice to have.

Regards,
Mike
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post #35 of 57 Old 08-15-2018, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sddp View Post
I have been watching both of these threads closely as I am thinking of getting 2 of the PB 4000 ( I know, not the same exactly, but close enough).
But this issue has me concerned as there is NO way I could move 300lbs and then movie again to return if they didn't work out.


My questions is, how different would the SVS or any of the subs you guys are mentioning as an alternative compared to my 2 Klipsch R-115SW?


I am not getting the bass I would like as I am running a 9.3.4 ATMOS set up. Obviously with that many speakers, one would need enough bass to compensate. My room is 17 W and 23 Deep
Don’t focus on this one experience. I assure you this was a placement and/or phase issue. If you can be persuaded to purchase $5 furniture sliders you shouldn’t concern yourself with the weight of the subwoofers either.

Having (2) PB-4000 in your size room will rock it as long as they are optimally placed but, this is the case with every single user on AVS. You have to have optimal placement for optimal output/extension.

SVS is a wonderful company & if for some reason you did not enjoy their performance you can simply send them back, which leads to my next point. You’re paying not only for this particular perk but their customer service & bill of sales as well. If you have a flexible budget by all means get the PB-4000. It’s an absolutely stunning looking subwoofer along with outstanding DSP/PEQ onboard/app controllable. One thing though if none of this is a particular need to you, you could get similar or better performance for less money. Either way, in this category of subs you shouldn’t be disappointed if you’ll put in the time to optimize your setup; which looking at your signature I believe that you will.

You should read through the SVS owners thread & get more than one account of users experiences with the PB4000. I hate that Mike had such a negative experience with SVS & his subs but, his experience is not a universal one.
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post #36 of 57 Old 08-15-2018, 06:14 PM
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i love my pb-4000
its a beast
can sit on my arse and control every single parameter of it too.
it will spoil you
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post #37 of 57 Old 08-15-2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sddp View Post
I have been watching both of these threads closely as I am thinking of getting 2 of the PB 4000 ( I know, not the same exactly, but close enough).
But this issue has me concerned as there is NO way I could move 300lbs and then movie again to return if they didn't work out.


My questions is, how different would the SVS or any of the subs you guys are mentioning as an alternative compared to my 2 Klipsch R-115SW?


I am not getting the bass I would like as I am running a 9.3.4 ATMOS set up. Obviously with that many speakers, one would need enough bass to compensate. My room is 17 W and 23 Deep
When you say not enough bass do you mean midbass or lower extension? Home Theater Review measured both your existing Klipsch subs and the PB4000 and above 40hz the Klipsch subs and SVS subs measured almost identical. The SVS has more advantage below 40hz. If you are looking for just more midbass get dual PSA V118 subs. If you want more output and extension look into JTR.

The Klipsch subs are actually pretty potent above 40hz and don't often get the credit they deserve.
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post #38 of 57 Old 08-15-2018, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
When you say not enough bass do you mean midbass or lower extension? Home Theater Review measured both your existing Klipsch subs and the PB4000 and above 40hz the Klipsch subs and SVS subs measured almost identical. The SVS has more advantage below 40hz. If you are looking for just more midbass get dual PSA V118 subs. If you want more output and extension look into JTR.

The Klipsch subs are actually pretty potent above 40hz and don't often get the credit they deserve.


First of all, thank you everyone for your input.
Just a quick note I wasn't basing this one the bad experience at all. I am very familiar with SVS and their amazing rep. It was more so about the output and over all performance.


I have a 150" screen and the PB 4000 would be the max size I could use since I have about 25" from the ground to the bottom of the screen, so a bit limited.
When I got the dual 15's (I wanted to have more than I need, since having so much more headroom would play very smoothly at lower volumes) I was having super high expectations. Chest thumping tactile hit. The Klipsch R-112Sw behind me exactky 6' has a far more tactile hit that I can feel and shakes the couch. Yes I know a lot of it has to do with it being near field, however two 15's being 17' from me should be just about the same if not WAY more


Don't get me wrong, I do feel them, but not what I was expecting by going with 3 subs. My speakers are set to 80hz. Always have Dolby ATMOS bitstream set for Blu Rays.
Thinking just turning the subs up to %80 and the Denon another +5db


Coasters wouldn't work for me as I have mine on custom spikes since I am on carpet. I did notice a HUGE improvement when I spiked all of my subs. Mostly tighter and smoother bass.


My 15's are 400 watts rms/800max where as the SVS PB 4000 is 1200rms with 4000watts peak.
Of coarse numbers do not always mean its going to be louder, as there's always other variables involved i.e. Room dimensions, type of surface, placement, open walls or doors, etc. However with that being said, 3 times the power, one would assume there should be quite a drastic difference?


I am not looking for a big difference spending almost 3.5K, but a Jurassic Park kind of difference.

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post #39 of 57 Old 08-15-2018, 07:35 PM
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The PSA V1811 is only 24" high but has an 18" driver and still ported. Duals would give you much more output Pb4000 in the midbass area where tactile feel is. The SVS might have tighter more accurate bass down low but the V1811 is no slouch.

Nothing working with the SVS subs but if you want more tactile feeling sound I would shop around. Dual JTR 118's with the current sale price would be even better but are 30" tall.
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post #40 of 57 Old 08-15-2018, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sddp View Post
First of all, thank you everyone for your input.
Just a quick note I wasn't basing this one the bad experience at all. I am very familiar with SVS and their amazing rep. It was more so about the output and over all performance.


I have a 150" screen and the PB 4000 would be the max size I could use since I have about 25" from the ground to the bottom of the screen, so a bit limited.
When I got the dual 15's (I wanted to have more than I need, since having so much more headroom would play very smoothly at lower volumes) I was having super high expectations. Chest thumping tactile hit. The Klipsch R-112Sw behind me exactky 6' has a far more tactile hit that I can feel and shakes the couch. Yes I know a lot of it has to do with it being near field, however two 15's being 17' from me should be just about the same if not WAY more


Don't get me wrong, I do feel them, but not what I was expecting by going with 3 subs. My speakers are set to 80hz. Always have Dolby ATMOS bitstream set for Blu Rays.
Thinking just turning the subs up to %80 and the Denon another +5db


Coasters wouldn't work for me as I have mine on custom spikes since I am on carpet. I did notice a HUGE improvement when I spiked all of my subs. Mostly tighter and smoother bass.


My 15's are 400 watts rms/800max where as the SVS PB 4000 is 1200rms with 4000watts peak.
Of coarse numbers do not always mean its going to be louder, as there's always other variables involved i.e. Room dimensions, type of surface, placement, open walls or doors, etc. However with that being said, 3 times the power, one would assume there should be quite a drastic difference?


I am not looking for a big difference spending almost 3.5K, but a Jurassic Park kind of difference.

Hi,

It's funny that you should mention Jurassic Park, because if you remember the footfall of the T-Rex in that first movie, the low-frequency thud of that footfall is exactly where you you would most notice the difference between your R-115's and dual PB4000's. There are things you can do to get more mid-bass punch (check-out cascading crossovers in Section III of the Guide, linked below, for one example). The PB4000's would each be about 3db stronger than your subs in the mid-bass frequencies, and they have internal PEQ, centered at 63Hz, (which is prime chest punch territory) that lets you boost the mid-bass.

But, unless the subwoofers can natively play low-bass frequencies, there just isn't much you can do about that. It is in the frequencies under about 30Hz where we really hear and feel the very low-bass special effects, and the PB4000's would pull way ahead in those frequencies. I will link measurements for both subwoofers, but just taking 20Hz as an example, a single PB4000 would have a more than 12db advantage at that frequency. That means that a single PB4000 would be equivalent to four R-115's at that frequency. Two of them would make a world of difference to both the sound and the tactile feel of your low-frequencies. Was that what you had in mind?

The columns on the right that show 2M RMS are the ones you want to compare. If you are interested in understanding a little more about comparing subwoofer performance, you might want to read Section VIII of the Guide, linked in my signature.

https://hometheaterreview.com/klipsc...viewed/?page=2

https://hometheaterreview.com/svs-pb...eviewed/?page=

Regards,
Mike
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post #41 of 57 Old 08-16-2018, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sddp View Post
I am not looking for a big difference spending almost 3.5K, but a Jurassic Park kind of difference.
Then you owe it to yourself to check out JTR. Nobody delivers the "Jurassic Park" experience like ported JTR subs. They can be placed horizontally.
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post #42 of 57 Old 08-16-2018, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Then you owe it to yourself to check out JTR. Nobody delivers the "Jurassic Park" experience like ported JTR subs. They can be placed horizontally.
Didnt know this....so I can place the new 118s horizontal when I get them?

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post #43 of 57 Old 08-16-2018, 05:19 AM
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Didnt know this....so I can place the new 118s horizontal when I get them?
Ideally you can place almost any subwoofer horizontally. There’s a select few subs like a couple Rythmiks that have heat sinks on the amplifier that would not be ideally placed horizontally because of heat build up.

With traditional subs it makes no difference whether the driver, enclosure, ports, etc is facing any particular direction compared to the intended orientation.
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post #44 of 57 Old 08-16-2018, 07:14 AM
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Didnt know this....so I can place the new 118s horizontal when I get them?
Of course you can. It's not just the JTRs. Almost all subs, as long as the air flow for the heat sink is not affected. Since the JTRs don't have heat sink...

4 JTR S2s:



My JTR Cap 4000ULF when I just got it, for photo op:



The Cap 4000ULF at its current location:



Just a preview of what the 118HT (same cabinet size as the Cap 1400) will look like:


Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #45 of 57 Old 08-17-2018, 02:32 PM
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Wow...that’s a lot of sub bias right there! How do the speakers in either of those setup’s keep up? Lol

People thought I was crazy when I had my dual PB13 Ultra’s paired with an Atlantic Tech 4200e package.

Love it!

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post #46 of 57 Old 08-17-2018, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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@chucky7 are you serious? THose subs dont even look normal?? WTF....the Cap 4000ULF
They look like one of those rare pics you see of a 25 ft croc from Phillipines.....

Seriously....something wrong with ppl if you get those things LOL
Do you need a crane to put in your house?

How much those things weigh?

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post #47 of 57 Old 08-17-2018, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
@chucky7 are you serious? THose subs dont even look normal?? WTF....the Cap 4000ULF

They look like one of those rare pics you see of a 25 ft croc from Phillipines.....



Seriously....something wrong with ppl if you get those things LOL

Do you need a crane to put in your house?



How much those things weigh?

My JTR Captivator S2 weighs 220lbs


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Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
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post #48 of 57 Old 08-17-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Of course you can. It's not just the JTRs. Almost all subs, as long as the air flow for the heat sink is not affected. Since the JTRs don't have heat sink...

4 JTR S2s:



My JTR Cap 4000ULF when I just got it, for photo op:



The Cap 4000ULF at its current location:



Just a preview of what the 118HT (same cabinet size as the Cap 1400) will look like:



Now you need a projector!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #49 of 57 Old 08-17-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
Wow...that’s a lot of sub bias right there! How do the speakers in either of those setup’s keep up? Lol

People thought I was crazy when I had my dual PB13 Ultra’s paired with an Atlantic Tech 4200e package.

Love it!
My mains and my surrounds are both flagship bookshelves so they are both more than adequate.

IMO, as long as people are not using tiny speakers with 4" woofers as mains they will be alright.

I am currently auditioning KEF Q100s to use as ATMOS speakers and I feel they are good enough to use as my mains.

Centers and subs are worth spending more money on, especially if your main usage is movies.
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post #50 of 57 Old 08-17-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
@chucky7 are you serious? THose subs dont even look normal?? WTF....the Cap 4000ULF
They look like one of those rare pics you see of a 25 ft croc from Phillipines.....

Seriously....something wrong with ppl if you get those things LOL
Do you need a crane to put in your house?

How much those things weigh?
Serious output down low requires serious sub(s)

See those 2 tiny subs in the background? Those are the JTR 2400ULFs...





The sub weighs almost as much as my wife and I combined...

I got this just before I picked up the sub: https://www.costco.com/Cosco-3-in-1-...100361868.html

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #51 of 57 Old 08-17-2018, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Serious output down low requires serious sub(s)

See those 2 tiny subs in the background? Those are the JTR 2400ULFs...





The sub weighs almost as much as my wife and I combined...

I got this just before I picked up the sub: https://www.costco.com/Cosco-3-in-1-...100361868.html
That is just ridiculous!!!

Set up #1 Speakers LR: Tekton Enzo XL ; Center: Tekton Pendragon Subs (2) 2019 JTR 118HTs
Set up #2 : QA3020i LR, Center: Emotiva C1 Subs (2) HSU VTF2 MK5,
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post #52 of 57 Old 08-17-2018, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
My mains and my surrounds are both flagship bookshelves so they are both more than adequate.

IMO, as long as people are not using tiny speakers with 4" woofers as mains they will be alright.

I am currently auditioning KEF Q100s to use as ATMOS speakers and I feel they are good enough to use as my mains.

Centers and subs are worth spending more money on, especially if your main usage is movies.
Oh, I’m very familiar with Polk LSiM’s.

As long as you’re happy with em, that’s all that matters. I’ve always thought Polk speakers were better than people give them credit for.

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Last edited by BRAC; 08-17-2018 at 07:08 PM.
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post #53 of 57 Old 08-17-2018, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Now you need a projector!
Yes, indeed!

As you can see, I have the 4000ULF in position for the addition of projector.

I am in the process of securing ATMOS speakers in anticipation of the upcoming AVR upgrade in late August. Then the projector is next.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-17-2018 at 11:16 PM.
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post #54 of 57 Old 09-19-2018, 12:32 PM
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So its been a month now....what did the OP @mpk1970 decide to do? Did he put HSU back in place, order the JTRs, or get the SVS amps fixed?

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post #55 of 57 Old 09-19-2018, 01:26 PM
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He got the JTRs and started a new thread.

Optoma HD37 on 138" DIY AT Screen | Infinity Beta 40s, Infinity Beta C250, Atlantic Technologies 224 SR
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post #56 of 57 Old 09-19-2018, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
So its been a month now....what did the OP @mpk1970 decide to do? Did he put HSU back in place, order the JTRs, or get the SVS amps fixed?
It's this one:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post56793790


Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #57 of 57 Old 09-19-2018, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconrl View Post
He got the JTRs and started a new thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Thanks!

It would be nice if the OP can keep updates on same thread or mention he took the thread somewhere else. I kinda figured he might have changed threads but people new to the forum would have no clue what direction he took.

Sony 45es | 120 inch screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1075 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Rotel RSP-1068 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M (x4) | Funk Audio subs (x2) | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson D-501/Shadow-8 Actuators (x2) | Monster Power Conditioner | GIK acoustic panels
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