Big subwoofer for a small room? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 01:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Big subwoofer for a small room?

Hello all!

Struggling to find the right sub for the right price. Basically giving up as I have zero... ZERO idea what subwoofer I should get.

Room is around 11^3 (1331). It is my bedroom sadly, as my parents wont give me a room to make a dedicated home theater

Whatever subwoofer I get will be paired with Ascend Acoustics' CMT-340 SE speakers.

I've been jumping around to tons of different threads, SVS here, HSU somewhere over there, Rythmik somewhere in that corner, but I still cannot decide on which one is the definite "Best".

I would just like to hear everyone's suggestions, doesn't even matter what the price range is. Wait. Scratch that, no $2000 subwoofers. Parents would never approve that. But other than the $2000+ price range, throw your favorite subwoofer brands and models in here. Big subwoofers earn bonus points!

Thanks in advance!

(Current contenders as of now are: Used SVS PB12-NSD, HSU VTF3-MK5, SVS PB-2000, Used SVS PB-4000, HSU VTF2-MK5, Rythmik LV12R. Basically anything of decent quality I can get for under $1000)
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post #2 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 02:40 AM
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With a room that small, you'd do fine with sealed subs since it's unlikely that the sub is going to be very far away from your MLP (which means it'll most probably qualify as near field placement). You don't necessarily need to go ported since it may further limit your floor space. Although if that isn't an issue (assuming you do not have a closet and desk), then the Ryhtmik LV12R, Hsu VTF2, and PSA V1510 which are all priced around the $1000 mark are great choices.

My suggestion, the Hsu ULS15 is a magnificent sub for that room size that isn't very big and hits like a truck - especially more so when it only costs $779 sans shipping. It's the best 15" sealed sub under $800 IMO.

If you can find dual SVS SB12NSD for $800 then that's also good route to take providing you can find the proper placements for them.

SVS Ultra Bookshelf + SVS Ultra Center
Prime Bookshelf Surround with Prime Elevation Heights
Dual Rythmik FV15HP
Yamaha RX-A3060 + Parasound Halo A31 + Emotiva A500
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post #3 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Hello all!

Struggling to find the right sub for the right price. Basically giving up as I have zero... ZERO idea what subwoofer I should get.

Room is around 11^3 (1331). It is my bedroom sadly, as my parents wont give me a room to make a dedicated home theater

Whatever subwoofer I get will be paired with Ascend Acoustics' CMT-340 SE speakers.

I've been jumping around to tons of different threads, SVS here, HSU somewhere over there, Rythmik somewhere in that corner, but I still cannot decide on which one is the definite "Best".

I would just like to hear everyone's suggestions, doesn't even matter what the price range is. Wait. Scratch that, no $2000 subwoofers. Parents would never approve that. But other than the $2000+ price range, throw your favorite subwoofer brands and models in here. Big subwoofers earn bonus points!

Thanks in advance!

(Current contenders as of now are: Used SVS PB12-NSD, HSU VTF3-MK5, SVS PB-2000, Used SVS PB-4000, HSU VTF2-MK5, Rythmik LV12R. Basically anything of decent quality I can get for under $1000)

Hi,

I will make two suggestions. The first one involves some reading. The second involves buying a little more subwoofer than you may think you need. And, since you really don't know what you are looking for or what you like at this point, I would buy a versatile subwoofer which can operate in more than one mode.

I believe that the HSU VTF3-MK5 would fulfill both of the requirements I mentioned. It is probably the most subwoofer you can get for your budget (you might not always be in that small room), and it can operate in either ported or sealed mode. A PB4000, or PB13 (or PC13) would also work well for you, but I don't believe you will find one for that price. SVS does have outlet specials from time-to-time that could come pretty close to your budget--such as a used PC12-Plus. It also has multi-mode functionality.

If you want to understand a little more about the differences between sealed and ported subwoofers, the following article will help:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...ces.html#VIIIA

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #4 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
With a room that small, you'd do fine with sealed subs since it's unlikely that the sub is going to be very far away from your MLP (which means it'll most probably qualify as near field placement). You don't necessarily need to go ported since it may further limit your floor space. Although if that isn't an issue (assuming you do not have a closet and desk), then the Ryhtmik LV12R, Hsu VTF2, and PSA V1510 which are all priced around the $1000 mark are great choices.

My suggestion, the Hsu ULS15 is a magnificent sub for that room size that isn't very big and hits like a truck - especially more so when it only costs $779 sans shipping. It's the best 15" sealed sub under $800 IMO.

If you can find dual SVS SB12NSD for $800 then that's also good route to take providing you can find the proper placements for them.
Ah okay, from what I have read, HSU is the sh*t so I’m onboard with the uls15. I actually never considered sealed subwoofers as I thought they were more musically oriented. Don’t get me wrong, I will definitely be listening to music, but from an all-around standpoint, I thought ported would be better.

As for the dual svs 12’s, what would u take? The two NSD’s or one of the uls 15’s? There’s a guy on the classifieds who’s selling an NSD in good condition and I might jump at it.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 01:08 PM
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I'm running a single PSA 15S in my 1800cuft room. I honestly didn't know what to expect. I haven't had a real home theater subwoofer in 20 years. In room, the sub is nearly ruler flat from 20-100Hz at 120dB as measured with REW. Falls off a bit from there but still have 102dB at 12Hz which is pretty impressive for a single sealed sub. I'm still optimizing placement and messing with room correction but this sub continues to impress me. I'm sure I'm trading off some maximum volume to get that flat response but it sounds pretty great.

I think the 15s will be more than enough for you. The sub does great with everything I've thrown at it, rock, dance music, rap, movies, classical. It integrates into my system really well with Dirac. I plan to add a second to give me a little more headroom when I'm playing things at reference.

You can pick one up for $850 shipped from their outlet center. I picked mine up from the outlet too!
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post #6 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Ah okay, from what I have read, HSU is the sh*t so I’m onboard with the uls15. I actually never considered sealed subwoofers as I thought they were more musically oriented. Don’t get me wrong, I will definitely be listening to music, but from an all-around standpoint, I thought ported would be better.

As for the dual svs 12’s, what would u take? The two NSD’s or one of the uls 15’s? There’s a guy on the classifieds who’s selling an NSD in good condition and I might jump at it.
I once had dual SB2000s (which are the SB12NSD's successors, has about 3db more output in the 30-40hz range but everything else remains about the same) in a 1650cu.ft room - so slightly bigger than yours. It was very potent, I had strong output (hitting the 105db peaks fairly easy) and was usable down to around 17hz. I liked them very much considering how small they are. Great subs, but absolutely no match for the ULS15 which bests even SVS's much more powerful SB13-Ultra/SB4000 at considerably lower price.

I say get a single ULS15 now, save up and get another later.

If the near future consists of you moving out and going for a bigger place, then yeah absolutely ported subs are the way to go.

SVS Ultra Bookshelf + SVS Ultra Center
Prime Bookshelf Surround with Prime Elevation Heights
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Yamaha RX-A3060 + Parasound Halo A31 + Emotiva A500
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post #7 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 01:18 PM
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if you buy the Rythmik sub through Ascend they will give you a package deal so you may be able to get a slightly better sub for your money. Both the Hsu and the Rhythmik subs should work well with the Ascend speakers although in a bedroom you could get by with sub in the $500 range and the smaller size wont take up as much room as some of the $1000 options.
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post #8 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I've
Hi,

I will make two suggestions. The first one involves some reading. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG] The second involves buying a little more subwoofer than you may think you need. And, since you really don't know what you are looking for or what you like at this point, I would buy a versatile subwoofer which can operate in more than one mode.

I believe that the HSU VTF3-MK5 would fulfill both of the requirements I mentioned. It is probably the most subwoofer you can get for your budget (you might not always be in that small room), and it can operate in either ported or sealed mode. A PB4000, or PB13 (or PC13) would also work well for you, but I don't believe you will find one for that price. SVS does have outlet specials from time-to-time that could come pretty close to your budget--such as a used PC12-Plus. It also has multi-mode functionality.

If you want to understand a little more about the differences between sealed and ported subwoofers, the following article will help:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...ces.html#VIIIA

Regards,
Mike
Thank you for the link, I did a quick overlook of it, will definitely have to look at it further in depth, it definitely holds a lot of good information. HSU seems to be the top pick and you also back this trend. I will definitely put HSU on the top of my list. But if I do get a good deal on an SVS I can’t really go wrong with them correct?
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #9 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 07:23 PM
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Well it entirely depends upon how much bass you like. My room is barely over 1000^3 and I have (3) subs going and looking to add more in the near future. I have a DIY 18” tuned to 19Hz, DIY 15” tuned to 22Hz, and an ID 12” sub tuned to 18Hz and I’m looking to add another 18” or (4) 12’s.

I wouldn’t consider anything less than a 15”

PSA V1511
Rythmik FV15HP
HSU 3.5
Monolith 15
JTR 118HT
PSA V1811
Rythmik FV18

Ideally for that size room and the least amount of money dual HSU 3.5’s would be life changing if you’ve never experienced a “true” sub..or one of the above if the dual budget is too expensive.

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| Sub | Trilithon | Stonehenge Variant Subwoofer - 18” - 9ft³ - 19Hz | Marty | Microcube 390HO - 22Hz | Monolith THX Ultra 12 | Monolith THX Select 10 |
| Spkrs | HSU CCB8 x3 | SVS Prime Elevation x2 | Polk S15 |
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post #10 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
I once had dual SB2000s (which are the SB12NSD's successors, has about 3db more output in the 30-40hz range but everything else remains about the same) in a 1650cu.ft room - so slightly bigger than yours. It was very potent, I had strong output (hitting the 105db peaks fairly easy) and was usable down to around 17hz. I liked them very much considering how small they are. Great subs, but absolutely no match for the ULS15 which bests even SVS's much more powerful SB13-Ultra/SB4000 at considerably lower price.

I say get a single ULS15 now, save up and get another later.

If the near future consists of you moving out and going for a bigger place, then yeah absolutely ported subs are the way to go.
I’m very glad I’m seeing a trend of everyone suggesting HSU’s ULS15. But what I’m still taking from this is that SVS is no slouch, so if I have the chance at a deal on an SVS I’ll probably have to go with that and maybe upgrade? I don’t know as of now but I’ll definitely have to decide based on the budget I can get.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #11 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 08:43 PM
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For a small, square room I would try dual svs pb-1000's. Rooms like yours can be very problematic for a single sub. Dual pb-1000's would be $950 and are risk free to audition for 45 days.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2), THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2,V6, XB900n,700,XB32,XB31. Sennheiser HD58X,HD4.50,PC37X. HiFiMAN HE4XX. Philips SHP9500. SIVGA SV004. SA HDTwo. HyperX CloudPS4. TB Elite AtlasAero. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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post #12 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Well it entirely depends upon how much bass you like. My room is barely over 1000^3 and I have (3) subs going and looking to add more in the near future. I have a DIY 18” tuned to 19Hz, DIY 15” tuned to 22Hz, and an ID 12” sub tuned to 18Hz and I’m looking to add another 18” or (4) 12’s.

I wouldn’t consider anything less than a 15”

PSA V1511
Rythmik FV15HP
HSU 3.5
Monolith 15
JTR 118HT
PSA V1811
Rythmik FV18

Ideally for that size room and the least amount of money dual HSU 3.5’s would be life changing if you’ve never experienced a “true” sub..or one of the above if the dual budget is too expensive.
Ah okay, nothing less than 15". So you are the one person who didn't recommend HSU's ULS15, is there a reason for this or was it just forgotten? And apparently I have not experienced a "true" sub as I don't exactly have the most money the closest to a "true" sub would be a REL subwoofer I demoed at a Magnolia in best buy. Yes, I'm aware that you are supposed to stay as far away from best buys as possible, but they have some really cool stuff nonetheless. But right now HSU is looking like the best choice for me.
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post #13 of 22 Old 09-14-2018, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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For a small, square room I would try dual svs pb-1000's. Rooms like yours can be very problematic for a single sub. Dual pb-1000's would be $950 and are risk free to audition for 45 days.
I don't know if I could allocate the space for dual subs at the moment, maybe if I stacked them on top of each other?
Not against the idea of dual subs, I do wish I could get dual subs but it just doesn't seem possible at the moment.
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post #14 of 22 Old 09-15-2018, 12:07 AM
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I don't know if I could allocate the space for dual subs at the moment, maybe if I stacked them on top of each other?
Not against the idea of dual subs, I do wish I could get dual subs but it just doesn't seem possible at the moment.

Small square rooms are the worst. If you are willing to spend $800-$900 you would be better served to go duals. Stacking them together does nothing to tame the room. Dual subs are very often recommended and in a room like yours, it should be considered a priority.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2), THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2,V6, XB900n,700,XB32,XB31. Sennheiser HD58X,HD4.50,PC37X. HiFiMAN HE4XX. Philips SHP9500. SIVGA SV004. SA HDTwo. HyperX CloudPS4. TB Elite AtlasAero. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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post #15 of 22 Old 09-15-2018, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Small square rooms are the worst. If you are willing to spend $800-$900 you would be better served to go duals. Stacking them together does nothing to tame the room. Dual subs are very often recommended and in a room like yours, it should be considered a priority.
Haha, I was just making a funny with the stacked subs, I'm not that much of a noob with audio

Like I said above, dual subs would be amazing, but finding the room for the second one would be close to impossible.
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Haha, I was just making a funny with the stacked subs, I'm not that much of a noob with audio

Like I said above, dual subs would be amazing, but finding the room for the second one would be close to impossible.

Some people do stack subs or place them next to one another. Stacking identical subs gets you a 6dB increase in output. If you can't go duals you will likely find out the hard way how problematic a room like yours can be with a single sub.

Subs>RBH I-12e, I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2), THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL Studio 270/235c/230/225c. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith Cinema 5bs. Polk RTiA1/CSiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2,V6, XB900n,700,XB32,XB31. Sennheiser HD58X,HD4.50,PC37X. HiFiMAN HE4XX. Philips SHP9500. SIVGA SV004. SA HDTwo. HyperX CloudPS4. TB Elite AtlasAero. LG FH6,RK8,RK7,PK5. HK Onyx Studio4(x2).
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post #17 of 22 Old 09-15-2018, 12:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Some people do stack subs or place them next to one another. Stacking identical subs gets you a 6dB increase in output. If you can't go duals you will likely find out the hard way how problematic a room like yours can be with a single sub.
Oh that's interesting, I didn't know that, I'll have to keep that in mind if I do get dual subs. If I acoustically treated my room would the problems still be there or would they be subdued enough?

Everyone talks about how cubed rooms are hellish, but to what extent?
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Ah okay, nothing less than 15". So you are the one person who didn't recommend HSU's ULS15, is there a reason for this or was it just forgotten? And apparently I have not experienced a "true" sub as I don't exactly have the most money the closest to a "true" sub would be a REL subwoofer I demoed at a Magnolia in best buy. Yes, I'm aware that you are supposed to stay as far away from best buys as possible, but they have some really cool stuff nonetheless. But right now HSU is looking like the best choice for me.
One person not to recommend the ULS15? I only seen one person that did recommend it. Regardless I don’t believe in the sealed is better for small rooms, etc. unless you have multiple sealed subs you’re only losing output and not gaining the true benefit of going sealed.

You’re losing tons of output below 30Hz not to mention the distortion that induces. With a ported sub you’d be gaining approximately 6-12dB around the tuning depending upon what subs we’re comparing.

As I mentioned I don’t know what you listen to albeit movies or music or how hot you like to run your subs. I wasn’t being condescending saying you hadn’t experienced a real subwoofer before..you don’t know what you’re missing until you know. I started with a $200 12” Polk & as mentioned I now have 3 subs w/ approximately 3.2kW running 18dB hot.

Also Best Buy is not a good representation of how a subwoofer is going to interact within your room..your room may be a bass nightmare. You have room modes & nulls to take into play. Within my current seating arrangement I get a 12dB modal peak that has to be cut via EQ along w/ a null at 67Hz that has to be combated w/ a properly placed adjacent subwoofer w/ proper phase & time alignment. You may love that REL in Best Buy and take it home to find out that it’s a $700 paperweight.

If you only listen to music w/ absolutely no HT, you could do fine w/ a SB-1000 or something equivalent but, if you enjoy movies in particular action movies, thrillers, etc with lots of bass you’ll soon realize that you not only need more woofage but, that you’ll be spending 2-3x the money as you not only have to take a loss on your first purchase but, in addition to the next upgrade you’ll have wasted what could have went towards a proper subwoofer in the first place. Again it’s totally YMMV, some people are perfectly fine with a single 10” regardless if there room is 5x the size of ours OR you get the occasional enthusiast that enjoys having the ability to shake your neighbors couch with 6 18’s & 18kWpk. There’s a guy over on the DIY subforum that has 29 subs w/ 86kW completely flat FR to 2Hz.

I believe you should do some reading before making a rash decision as patience will be your best friend in this situation allowing you to learn and also save your wallet; or parents.

You should start with Mikes Guide to Subwoofer Calibration

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html
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| Spkrs | HSU CCB8 x3 | SVS Prime Elevation x2 | Polk S15 |
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post #19 of 22 Old 09-15-2018, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Thank you for the link, I did a quick overlook of it, will definitely have to look at it further in depth, it definitely holds a lot of good information. HSU seems to be the top pick and you also back this trend. I will definitely put HSU on the top of my list. But if I do get a good deal on an SVS I can’t really go wrong with them correct?
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I’m very glad I’m seeing a trend of everyone suggesting HSU’s ULS15. But what I’m still taking from this is that SVS is no slouch, so if I have the chance at a deal on an SVS I’ll probably have to go with that and maybe upgrade? I don’t know as of now but I’ll definitely have to decide based on the budget I can get.
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Ah okay, nothing less than 15". So you are the one person who didn't recommend HSU's ULS15, is there a reason for this or was it just forgotten? And apparently I have not experienced a "true" sub as I don't exactly have the most money the closest to a "true" sub would be a REL subwoofer I demoed at a Magnolia in best buy. Yes, I'm aware that you are supposed to stay as far away from best buys as possible, but they have some really cool stuff nonetheless. But right now HSU is looking like the best choice for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Oh that's interesting, I didn't know that, I'll have to keep that in mind if I do get dual subs. If I acoustically treated my room would the problems still be there or would they be subdued enough?

Everyone talks about how cubed rooms are hellish, but to what extent?

One of the problems with threads like this is that, in trying to be helpful, people often give you what seems like conflicting or contradictory advice. And, the person we are advising, doesn't know how to sort it all out. That's one reason the Guide was developed: to give objective advice which isn't based so much on the personal perspective of the person giving it.

I agree that so far only one person has advised you to buy a sealed subwoofer. My own advice from Post 3 was to buy the HSU VTF3-MK5. That subwoofer would allow you to play it in multiple modes, including sealed. Since you really don't know what you want at this point, I especially like the option of picking something versatile. That way, you can decide for yourself whether you prefer sealed or ported, instead of just guessing, based on what other people are saying.

But, I also like that option as the most powerful ported sub you can get for your money. You may end-up wishing you had bought a ported subwoofer, depending on your own ultimate bass preferences, or if you find yourself in a larger space in a few years. This is going to be a fairly large investment. If you can afford the VTF3-MK5, that is what I would advise you to buy. The nearest SVS equivalent would be the PB12-Plus, which I also mentioned in my original post.

Don't worry about your room right now. It is what it is. Later, if you are handy, you can try to DIY some bass traps to build in your room. But, bass traps thick enough to affect subwoofer frequencies will be large, and they may be difficult to accommodate in a small room. Section I-A of the Guide, linked below, has some information on bass traps. But, that's for later. Right now, you just need to pick a subwoofer that is capable of doing the things you want it to do.

Meanwhile, if you can't accommodate dual subwoofers in your small room, don't sweat it. You will be trying to position your new subwoofer where it sounds the best, anyway. That would be true in any room. And, the closer you put it to your listening position, the less that the room will influence the sound. This is something that you will have to work out the best way you can, just like anybody else with a small room has to do. And, you can do what's called a subwoofer crawl (Google it or refer to Section VIII-E of the Guide) to help you position the subwoofer. No problem!

Listen closely to the advice you are getting, but also listen for common themes and trends in the advice. And, then use your own common sense and judgment. People buy subwoofers all the time. It's an important investment, but it's one that you have already gotten some good advice on. I'm sure that whatever you end-up buying will be enjoyable to you.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 09-15-2018 at 05:34 AM.
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post #20 of 22 Old 09-15-2018, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I’m very glad I’m seeing a trend of everyone suggesting HSU’s ULS15. But what I’m still taking from this is that SVS is no slouch, so if I have the chance at a deal on an SVS I’ll probably have to go with that and maybe upgrade? I don’t know as of now but I’ll definitely have to decide based on the budget I can get.
Duals are often 9/10 times better than single. I don't really know how your room layout in terms of furniture is so that's why I didn't suggest bigger ported or dual subs at first. I was presuming you don't really have much floor space.
Like I said, if you have the proper locations to put the dual SB2000s (or any other dual subs for that matter), then go for duals - it doesn't just have to be the SVS.

In fact, you can even go for a single ULS15 now and get another ULS15 later on. Heck if you want ported from SVS but don't have enough floor space, you can take a look at their PC2000s as well!

SVS Ultra Bookshelf + SVS Ultra Center
Prime Bookshelf Surround with Prime Elevation Heights
Dual Rythmik FV15HP
Yamaha RX-A3060 + Parasound Halo A31 + Emotiva A500
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post #21 of 22 Old 09-15-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Oh that's interesting, I didn't know that, I'll have to keep that in mind if I do get dual subs. If I acoustically treated my room would the problems still be there or would they be subdued enough?

Everyone talks about how cubed rooms are hellish, but to what extent?
In a smaller sealed room, the bass is lumpy due to sparse modes down low. Below the first room mode there is 'cabin gain' at the lowest frequencies by direct pressurization of the entire space and that helps with single digit tactile frequencies.

You have the additional complication of too much symmetry. How bad is it? Bad.

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=11&w=11&h=11&ft=true&r60=0.6


The modal distribution has only two low bass modes at 51Hz and at 74Hz, with no other resonant reinforcement of any frequencies below 74Hz. The Bolt Area X is at the origin, the worst possible place (you can only see the top right leg of the red X). Your deep bass is fubar.

The list of modes at the bottom has repeated frequencies with modal numbers like 1 0 0, 0 1 0, 0 0 1. Each set of three identical frequencies represents three resonators that are all singing the same tune because your room dimensions are all identical.

Down low where modes are scarce and lumpy, absorption will be huge and suck out the ambience-enhancing later reflections from the treble that you really want to preserve. Resonant traps might help, but they are large too as well as difficult to tune. Wideband membrane absorbers might be your best fool-proof bet for bass trapping, but you will need someone more expert than me to advise you. Your bed and furniture and closet/clothing might help trap some bass resonance but it's not very tuneable.

Your most flexible and effective option for taming modal resonance -- placement -- is largely infeasible in your small room, especially if you buy a single monster sub that only fits in a corner.

Easier placement is an overwhelming reason to choose a small sealed sub for your room, given that with the help of cabin gain you will also get extended response from it that you cannot get from a similarly capable ported sub. Smallness becomes even more important and output less so once there are two of them.
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post #22 of 22 Old 09-15-2018, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
One of the problems with threads like this is that, in trying to be helpful, people often give you what seems like conflicting or contradictory advice. And, the person we are advising, doesn't know how to sort it all out. That's one reason the Guide was developed: to give objective advice which isn't based so much on the personal perspective of the person giving it.

I agree that so far only one person has advised you to buy a sealed subwoofer.
Make that two.

Quote:
My own advice from Post 3 was to buy the HSU VTF3-MK5. That subwoofer would allow you to play it in multiple modes, including sealed. Since you really don't know what you want at this point, I especially like the option of picking something versatile. That way, you can decide for yourself whether you prefer sealed or ported, instead of just guessing, based on what other people are saying.
The disadvantage of that sub is that even in sealed mode it still doesn't really get down to single digits and it maybe costs more than he needs to spend on a single sub for this application. It also has more power and driver than is needed for that room size unless reference levels are a must. Is there another option in a sealed sub that will do single digits on his budget? I don't know, but he has the cabin gain to do it.

Quote:
But, I also like that option as the most powerful ported sub you can get for your money. You may end-up wishing you had bought a ported subwoofer, depending on your own ultimate bass preferences, or if you find yourself in a larger space in a few years. This is going to be a fairly large investment. If you can afford the VTF3-MK5, that is what I would advise you to buy. The nearest SVS equivalent would be the PB12-Plus, which I also mentioned in my original post.

Don't worry about your room right now. It is what it is. Later, if you are handy, you can try to DIY some bass traps to build in your room. But, bass traps thick enough to affect subwoofer frequencies will be large, and they may be difficult to accommodate in a small room. Section I-A of the Guide, linked below, has some information on bass traps. But, that's for later. Right now, you just need to pick a subwoofer that is capable of doing the things you want it to do.

Meanwhile, if you can't accommodate dual subwoofers in your small room, don't sweat it. You will be trying to position your new subwoofer where it sounds the best, anyway. That would be true in any room. And, the closer you put it to your listening position, the less that the room will influence the sound. This is something that you will have to work out the best way you can, just like anybody else with a small room has to do. And, you can do what's called a subwoofer crawl (Google it or refer to Section VIII-E of the Guide) to help you position the subwoofer. No problem!
I would add that tuning dual subwoofers is a non-trivial exercise that is best done with the aid of a measurement tool such as REW unless the room is easy and the person has at least one resident expert on-site. Ask me how I know!!!

Quote:
Listen closely to the advice you are getting, but also listen for common themes and trends in the advice. And, then use your own common sense and judgment. People buy subwoofers all the time. It's an important investment, but it's one that you have already gotten some good advice on. I'm sure that whatever you end-up buying will be enjoyable to you.

Regards,
Mike
Words of wisdom.
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