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post #31 of 48 Old 09-23-2018, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TheWarrior97 View Post
I tried the setting you described first, increasing the sub trim to 6 and leaving the extra bass off and increasing the bass in tone control to 6, not much of a difference.

...........HOWEVER, you hit the nail on the head with that muddy flat comment. I set the manual eq as you stated, turned the sub trim and tone control back to normal and THAT was what I was looking for! Even my wife said that's what she remembered!! We turned it back to flat eq and the experience was completely different for us, we felt like we were watching a movie rather than being in the movie. Is this wrong to want to feel the movie?

So many questions.
So what does this mean and where do I go from here? Would keeping that setting for the SVS ruin the sub? Is this muddy/boomy reference wrong to have? Does it mean I can't distinguish an explosion from a dinosaur stepping on the ground if I keep this setting? I would like accurate sound...whatever that sounds like, but I really want that boomy feeling like being in the actual movie....how can I get both? 18"?? Should I take my foot out of the rabbit hole, or still jump in?
Is this boomy feeling have something to do with tightness or headroom or what?

Thanks again DaBateman for helping me figure out MY problem, now onto solving it.
There’s nothing wrong with you liking that sound. Rather than focusing on what is considered “correct” you should enjoy your system regardless of what needs to be done to achieve that.

The more “boomy-ness” we’re referring to is what you’d commonly refer to as mid-bass..somewhere around 40-100Hz.

Also no keeping those EQ settings will not ruin the SVS sub, the plate amp does have a limiter set so its nearly impossible to damage it.

Again there’s nothing wrong with wanting more midbass. A lot of DIY users have specific subs called MBM (midbass module) that cover those specific frequencies.

You’ll be able to distinguish the difference for sure it’ll just take some time training your ear what the difference between midbass and ULF is. A lot of times people think they’re hearing subsonic frequencies meaning 20 or less and it’s really 30-40Hz so that’ll just take time.

IMO an accurate sound is a completely flat frequency response but, if that’s not for you that’s fine too. IMO if you’re listening to music I’d turn the flat EQ setting on and if watching TV/movie I’d turn it back to manual.

I may be biased having gone down the DIY hole but, you don’t know what you’re missing until you know. A lot of folks here on the subwoofer subforum gets furious when we come over recommending DIY subs but, it’s for a good reason..although I also understand it’s not for everyone.

IMO I’d still send the SVS back and build (2) VBSS’s after finding out that you like mid-bass. The driver is the Dayton PA460 and it’s about $90. It’s a pro audio woofer so that’s one reason it excels at midbass but it also has a high sensitivity so it doesn’t need thousands of watts to power it to reference.

So figure $180 for drivers, $60 for wood, $50 for misc stuff like glue and connectors, and $450 for the amp (I’d still get the NX6000D to allow future builds and plenty of headroom) so you could have a killer system for ~$740. The VBSS thread is linked above. I’d also post on it or make a new thread on the DIY subforum and ask about port tuning. You liking midbass more you may want to tune them a little higher.

Edit: I forgot to add the VBSS (PA460) is an 18”. I would stick with 18’s only. With bigger cone area it keeps everything better, distortion, headroom, SPL, etc.
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Last edited by DaBateman; 09-23-2018 at 09:07 PM.
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post #32 of 48 Old 09-23-2018, 09:22 PM
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I may be biased having gone down the DIY hole but, you don’t know what you’re missing until you know. A lot of folks here on the subwoofer subforum gets furious when we come over recommending DIY subs but, it’s for a good reason..although I also understand it’s not for everyone.
Yes. Both methods can get you to a similar place, but DIY gets you more flexibility at a lower cost at the expense of time and effort. It depends where you want to invest your resources. As for me and my house, we'll go DIY.

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post #33 of 48 Old 09-23-2018, 09:44 PM
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Hands down for tactile is placing the sub directly behind your seat firing directly at you....like touching the seat close.....just a few inches makes a difference.....even if it can not stay there, you will get a good idea of what`s possible.


I went thru a bunch of subs, best move was placing one behind each seat as close as possible...the closer the better, like touching the seat if possible...…..



There is no other way I would go.....behind the seat is great for movies....hold on for the ride !
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post #34 of 48 Old 09-24-2018, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Here’s another comparison someone wrote on the DIY subforum comparing his (2) PSA V1500’s to some DIY’s.
It is important to note, that I still love my PSA subs. Obviously, there are quite a few advantages to DIY subwoofers, especially if you are trying to get the most performance for the dollar. That being said, I would imagine that most people would never be able to match the simplicity, fit, and finish of most of the ID companies Obviously comparing 2 15 inch subs with 750 watts each to a trio of 18 inch subs driven by over 5000 watts isn't going to be a fair fight.
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post #35 of 48 Old 09-24-2018, 11:44 AM
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You may like this option also....one can never have too many options. DIYS price in a ready made package. https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/SBE-118
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post #36 of 48 Old 09-24-2018, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
Hands down for tactile is placing the sub directly behind your seat firing directly at you....like touching the seat close.....just a few inches makes a difference.....even if it can not stay there, you will get a good idea of what`s possible.


I went thru a bunch of subs, best move was placing one behind each seat as close as possible...the closer the better, like touching the seat if possible...…..



There is no other way I would go.....behind the seat is great for movies....hold on for the ride !
I came to a similar conclusion. In my new home theater I built a riser that was detached from the concrete floor and from the walls and placed one of my two Monolith 15's directly on the riser, directly behind the second row.

Wow. Big difference.
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post #37 of 48 Old 09-24-2018, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
It is important to note, that I still love my PSA subs. Obviously, there are quite a few advantages to DIY subwoofers, especially if you are trying to get the most performance for the dollar. That being said, I would imagine that most people would never be able to match the simplicity, fit, and finish of most of the ID companies Obviously comparing 2 15 inch subs with 750 watts each to a trio of 18 inch subs driven by over 5000 watts isn't going to be a fair fight.
Sure, the PSA’s aren’t slouches by any means but, for the 2k spent on them you could easily out do them in every aspect with DIY.

It’s all about how much time and effort you are willing to put into your enclosures. You could finish them blank, take them to a cabinet maker and have whatever veneer, paint, stain, etc. your heart desires.

Again I understand DIY isn’t for everyone and that’s perfectly fine if you or anyone else prefers ID subs. There’s plenty of good options out there but, dollar per dollar it’s not much of a comparison.

Although the customer service you’d receive with PSA is hard to beat and not comparable in a DIY sense.

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post #38 of 48 Old 09-24-2018, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBateman View Post
Sure, the PSA’s aren’t slouches by any means but, for the 2k spent on them you could easily out do them in every aspect with DIY.

It’s all about how much time and effort you are willing to put into your enclosures. You could finish them blank, take them to a cabinet maker and have whatever veneer, paint, stain, etc. your heart desires.

Again I understand DIY isn’t for everyone and that’s perfectly fine if you or anyone else prefers ID subs. There’s plenty of good options out there but, dollar per dollar it’s not much of a comparison.

Although the customer service you’d receive with PSA is hard to beat and not comparable in a DIY sense.
I think my least favorite thing about the DIY subs is that the amplifier options are lacking. Sure the iNuke amps are a good value, but I would prefer something that looks nice, doesn't have loud fans without modding, and supports 12v trigger without modding.

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post #39 of 48 Old 09-24-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TheWarrior97 View Post
Could be, I am not really an audiophile....yet....and i do have hearing loss, but my wife keeps saying, "It doesn't sound as loud as the other one, and you paid way more??" so I'm not the only one that feels like somethings different. My wife also says I don't have refined taste buds....maybe she's right and this is just another example! LOL

How can I change the reciever or SVS sub to be less flat and more boomy and muddy if that's the difference?

So this DIY world, have you personally been able to get your subs to sound tight, lowest possible frequencies, lots of headroom, and all that other jazz SVS says they shoot for? Will people be able to walk me through this without annoying them? Personally, I would likely just tune it once, maybe twice, and be just fine with it until maybe I move someday. I don't expect I will be trying to get the lowest possible frequency once a month. I don't mind getting the mic and the REW software either.
You could try adding something like a mid bass module they aim higher in the frequency range than a traditional HT sub. Something like this https://www.diysoundgroup.com/bundle...-12lx-kit.html from DIYSG or the MBM 15-LX which is basically the bottom half of the Titan 615-lx, they go from the low to mid 30's to 500 or 600hz and most most mid bass aka chest slam is in the higher bass frequencies. And you could do 1 or 2 plus and amp and still be close to or under budget.
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post #40 of 48 Old 09-25-2018, 04:28 PM
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Deep Chest Punch

I own a PB 2000 and have been getting tactile and house slam. Mid is decent. I will be adding a second PB2000 which is equal to one PB4000.
Keep in mind that you have to look at what your room can bare. Remember dual subs are a must I also owned two PB1000.
Dual subs will give you better headroom.
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post #41 of 48 Old 09-25-2018, 05:03 PM
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I skimmed through the responses and would like to share my solution. And compared to the multitude of possible solutions, it's very EASY to achieve, and relatively inexpensive.

If you want artificial, fun, kick-ass bass, my solution won't do.

But if you want natural, REAL bass with slam, read on.

Go "Swarm" subs and Audyssey.

Audyssey has had mixed reviews but that's because source levels are critical. But with SMPTE calibrated material (ie. DVDs or BluRay through digital input - HDMI,optical or SPDIF only!) I think it's the easiest and greatest solution for movie slam there can be. To the point I've spilt hot coffee on myself more times than I'd like to remember when I'm surprised by sudden loud sounds off a sound track.

Bass traps would be lovely to even out the peaks and dips of your room's frequency response curve. A square room makes this worse, a 8 X 8 room with 8 foot ceilings is crazy bad!

But I've managed to have zero bass traps with multiple ("swarm") subs. The idea is that they must be in non-mirrored locations so each evens out the peaks and dips the other(s) invariably have. Mine are 1 in the corner and 1 in nearly in the centre of my room (under the sofa). The improvement is HUGE. Simply by walking when a music track with rhythmic bass is playing you'd hear more bass in some spots and little or none in others otherwise.

I'd love to have 4 (small) woofers scattered throughout my room. But my 2 work great.

By the way, the two I have are 8" each in size! It's not how big it is, it's what you do with it (as we all know :-))

Yes, spilt coffee from these 2 puny subs. I cross over at 80Hz. Plus on the subs I set the high pass at 50Hz (not 200Hz).

Lastly Audyssey.

Audyssey has two Features that can be disabled and I recommend you do so - at least at the start.

The first is their Dynamic Volume "night mode" system. On my Denon it's Light, Medium, Heavy or Off. Great to get slam when others are in bed and you don't need that action sequence to be 20dB louder than dialogue.

The other, Dynamic EQ, is like the much maligned Loudness button of the 1970s. Because whenever you're listening at below the original level of the recorded performance, you're listening to a lower level of bass (and treble). That's why a good AVR is calibrated in negative dB values, ie. BELOW original level. So at 0dB you're listening as the artist/director intended. If you listen at -10dB something is being compromised, that can be corrected. I leave this On as I watch movies at -10dB mostly.

Warning, used with non-SMPTE material (audio files are some 15db to 20dB louder) they'll sound very bassy, hence the misgivings by some. The solution is simple. Bypass/disable Dynamic EQ. Or use ReplayGain - I've set my audio to match my MTV DVDs, turns out 86dBFS is a good all-round setting.

There you have it.

Great - no - FANTASTIC bass slam.

Just be careful as if a car crash actually happens outside your home you might not realise it, cause it seemed just like the other car crashes in the movie you were watching.

And try not to hold hot coffee during a viewing.

Enjoy!
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post #42 of 48 Old 09-25-2018, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarrior97 View Post
Hi,

I have a 15x15' square room, to openings at the front, only the rear has full corners. seating position is 1 foot from wall centered, tv on opposite wall. klipsch rc62ii center, and 4 jbl sp8ii surrounds. PB 2000 sub at the moment. 5.1 system setup

I'm mostly a movie guy, like feeling the explosions and chest punch sounds I hear people refer to.

I had a JBL ES250P, amp died on it after a year. Spent like 250 on it

Decided to get the PB-2000 everyone talks about for 650. I don't feel the punch with the sub gain all the way up, like I did with the JBL.

I have gone through the forums on putting the sub many places, subwoofers crawl, etc. Ive tried all I can with the PB-2000

So, my question is, with everything the same (positioning, movie sequence, speakers, receiver, room size, etc...), do you get more chest punch from a pb-2000 or a klipsch 115 or a HSU sub? Should I move to 15" subs?
A youtuber said he felt more with the HSU than the SVS, but that was just one opinion.

I just want to know the most explosive sounding sub for the $800 dollar price range. I want my HOUSE to shake, not just the floor if that's possible in my price range.
The 'thump in the gut' comes from the frequency range. Sound designers add a boost to the 40-50HGz region. Try it by modifying the graphic curve on your output to add the peak and see how that feels. There are some subs out there that have that peak built-in. I have a DIY horn-loaded sub that was designed specifically for that purpose. My 18" JBL gives me the full-range of lows I need and the horn delivers the punch. Add that to the bounce of the (moderately tuned and subtle output - yeh true, I keep it moderate) Butt Kicker and it's all there.
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post #43 of 48 Old 09-26-2018, 04:32 AM
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What are the go-to songs for testing deep chest punch?

Can chest punch be felt with playback volume level of -10dB? Or is it something that can only be felt at close to reference = -3dB to 0dB master volume?
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post #44 of 48 Old 09-26-2018, 06:41 AM
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I find this topic interesting as I have a pb2000 and then added a pb1000 to it. The biggest tactile change was by adding 4 aura pro bassshakers to my chairs. $200 total using an old Yamaha amp to power them. Subs in diagonal front and back corners.room is a 16x16. Plenty of slam to me.
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post #45 of 48 Old 09-26-2018, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarrior97 View Post
Hi,

I have a 15x15' square room, to openings at the front, only the rear has full corners. seating position is 1 foot from wall centered, tv on opposite wall. klipsch rc62ii center, and 4 jbl sp8ii surrounds. PB 2000 sub at the moment. 5.1 system setup

I'm mostly a movie guy, like feeling the explosions and chest punch sounds I hear people refer to.

I had a JBL ES250P, amp died on it after a year. Spent like 250 on it

Decided to get the PB-2000 everyone talks about for 650. I don't feel the punch with the sub gain all the way up, like I did with the JBL.

I have gone through the forums on putting the sub many places, subwoofers crawl, etc. Ive tried all I can with the PB-2000

So, my question is, with everything the same (positioning, movie sequence, speakers, receiver, room size, etc...), do you get more chest punch from a pb-2000 or a klipsch 115 or a HSU sub? Should I move to 15" subs?
A youtuber said he felt more with the HSU than the SVS, but that was just one opinion.

I just want to know the most explosive sounding sub for the $800 dollar price range. I want my HOUSE to shake, not just the floor if that's possible in my price range.
to the WARRIOR, I use live sound reinforcement subs they hit you hard, I,m using a pair of turbosound 18" they are built with lighter drivers than home theatre subs because they don't go down much below 35hz but can go up to 450hz, so they have to be fast, if you cross them over at say 90hz they can easily put out 125db and give you the chest thump on kick drums but you will need to run them with regular subwoofers to get you all the way down to the bottom 20hz and below. have fun
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post #46 of 48 Old 09-26-2018, 03:04 PM
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For a true slam to the chest, can't go wrong with one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdmH...&frags=pl%2Cwn
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post #47 of 48 Old 09-26-2018, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry y'all, didn't know this was still being talked about. Not too familiar with the forums setup.

The issue with my sub for "my" taste in a subs output was Yamaha's Flat EQ. A forum member had me manipulate it to hear more mid frequency bass I guess its called and then the sub did what I was wanting and hoping for, no doubt. Shook the house.

Maybe the Marantz or Denon is better with the audessy, but I've been wanting a Yamaha and got it for a good price and will stick with it.

I have also decided to build my own subs and started a thread in the DIY section. The reason I am doing this is because I am a DIY'r down to my core, ever since building my own computer after being tired of the garbage computers from manufacturers and other people building me garbage ones. I do woodworking as well, built tables, cribs, bowls, desk, etc. I have no doubt I can get it physically done. I just need to understand more the concepts, working the receiver, settings, testing the accoustics, etc. So i'll be looking for help there.


Thanks everyone for all your help, my wife was even commenting how helpful everyone is for no reason at all on here.

Here's the thread
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...fer-build.html

Yamaha Aventage 3070
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post #48 of 48 Old 09-29-2018, 10:35 AM
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I haven’t read the entire thread, but if it hasn’t been brought up yet, you need your sub placement to be near-field. Place it where the table is right next to the main listening position on the end of the couch, or bring the couch out from the wall and place it behind the main listening position. Also, if the sub has a built-in crossover, set it to the highest frequency. Let your AVR handle the crossover. Also set your LPF on AVR to 120Hz so you can get more of the midbass to your sub.


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