Originally Posted by javan robinson
Hello All, I'm back. Re-ran Audyssey, I also jammed my face off last night and I have some results to report!
But first and foremost, a word about Rythmik, the FV25HP, and my journey thus far.. -
I LOVE this sub and I am indeed keeping it forever. The cleanliness of it (both in looks and in sound) is unmatched as far as what I have seen, and it gets way deeper, louder and sexier than any of my other SVS subs ever did. I've been a speakerhead, audiovisual/tech enthusiast, etc for as long as I could remember, but am not really just learning about all of the intricacies and ins and outs and how things work and how to really bring the life into the components I've amassed. Over the past year or two after picking up my Denon, FV25HP and MTM-210's - I've been trying to make the time just to sit back and enjoy these wonderful items - and I thank each and every one of you for helping me to actualize that!
As far as the Rythmik, I realize I stumbled upon this thread searching for a little bit "more" and decided to drop some comments. Meant no disrespect at all to Enrico and the boys and should have taken it through the proper channels. I will never stop using using this sub, whether in my main room or another; but if I'm able to squeeze a little more power out of this thing, it may prolong my move from my main room to JTR for some time..
Anyways - speaking of proper channels, I read the post that Rythmik had made in the official thread regarding the limiter. I may still require some additional clarification on that, but from as I understand it it means something like "turn the volume down 1-2 decibels when the limiter light is flashing"....which is confusing considering what Enrico and imureh said about having the volume at 3/4pm..
With that said, I re-ran Audyssey and my results are below. Without re-running Audyssey - I had a friend over last night and we hung out, listened to some tunes, played with the hue lights and jammed our faces off as mentioned above. Before the face-jamming I had indeed turned the volume up to about 2/3pm on the sub and I had experienced more potent and tremendous feelings of bass throughout my body and my house. I liked this. I did check on the limiter periodically and periodically - as mentioned before; it was flashing. But - this was before I re-ran Audyssey.
So again, in closing - my reportings from Audyssey are below. I am now posting these in complete silence and after I post this I'm going to turn on some music, turn the dial on the volume to about 2pm and see how she sounds.
Note: I do like to listen to music very loudly and near reference volume on my AVR - and even MORE SO since I got these very efficient PSA MTM's and Outlaw Amps. As one has mentioned before either on here or a video that I had watched "-10db or -5db or even 0db doesn't seem as loud as it did before." Meaning, I guess listening to my old Paradigm Monitor 9's - was a little to harsh on my ears to set it up too loud. And that it just doesn't seem as "loud" as it did before - because these speakers are so damn clean. Which I do see as a good thing, because I can now turn it up louder and achieve louder, cleaner, more potent music/movies/etc - But...I don't want to break my equipment!
For the record, I do like to listen to music for prolonged periods of time (30 minutes - 2hours) with the volume set anywhere from -10db to -2db and sometimes @ reference (0db) for a few moments if the mood is just right
When I watch movies the volume is anywhere from -20db to -0db probably falling right around -5/6db 85% of the time.
But according to Audyssey - my LCR are all set at -6.5db or -8db. Meaning that when listening in Stereo I would have to essentially go up to +7DB in order to reach actual reference volume, right?
Audyssey Levels -
FL - -8db
C - -8db
FR - -6.5db
SR - -3.5db
SBR - -1.5db
SBL - -1db
SL - -3db
TFR - -1db
TRR - -2.5db
TRL - -1.5db
TFL - -2db
Subwoofer -.... -3.5db
All speakers set to Small by Audyssey.
Crossovers all set to 80hz by me. They were all 60hz and 40hz.
I will be boosting the Atmos Speakers 1db and the Center 1db, but as far as the subwoofer boost level - what do y'all recommend?
ANYHOOT - I've typed enough. Thank you all for your Wonderful Advice and Looking Forward To Getting More Out Of This Sub Without Busting It!
I am glad that you are enjoying your FV25HP all over again!
What Brian was saying is that when the limiter light comes on, it is telling you to turn down the master volume by 2 or 3db. You need to understand that the master volume and the subwoofer boost both
put demands on the subwoofer. So, if you play 5.1 content at near Reference levels of let's say -3 MV and you boost the subwoofer above the level that Audyssey set it at, you are actually trying to force it to play more than 115db.
That may be okay for most mid-bass content, but it will struggle in your room with the really low content. So, if you don't want to damage your sub, you need to be a little bit careful with it. High master volume + subwoofer boost = too much demand on the sub, with 5.1 content that has a lot of low-bass.
Now, stereo may be a completely different proposition unless it is bass-enhanced. Anything with low-bass sine waves in it, such as some of the homemade mixes on YouTube, for instance, could be risky at very high volume levels, with a healthy sub boost. Most normal stereo content should be fine, unless it is bass-enhanced.
"Reference" is a term that really only applies to 5.1 movie content. But, when Audyssey calibrates your AVR, Reference equals a master volume level of 0.0. It has nothing at all to do with the individual trim levels on your speakers--only with the master volume level.
As Jamie said, odds are you can jam to your hearts content with your speakers. And, a volume level of -3 will only require them to produce 102db. But, the subwoofer has its own separate
amplifier which you are turning up after running Audyssey. So, now you are boosting the volume on the subwoofer in two different places.
First, you are boosting it with a high master volume level. At 0.0 MV, with 5.1 content, the subwoofer will have to try to play all frequencies at 115db, just from the master volume level. But second, you have also boosted the subwoofer amplifier from wherever Audyssey set it. So, if you boosted it by let's say 5db (either with the sub gain, or with the AVR trim, or with some combination of the two) you would be requiring the subwoofer to play 115db + another 5db at the MV setting of 0.0. That 120db in our hypothetical example would put a lot of strain on the sub, especially for the lower frequenices.
If all of this doesn't quite compute for you yet, don't worry about it. Just read it a few times until it does. And, meanwhile, keep an eye on your limiter light, and don't let yourself get too carried away. That single subwoofer, as strong and bulletproof as it is, is simply not sufficient for the demands that you are putting on it. You can certainly keep it, and just add another one like it, if that is what you want to do.
But, you are surely going to have to either add something, or to turn down your volume a little. You can have less total volume with a little more sub boost. That is what Enrico was suggesting. Or
, you can have more total volume with a little less sub boost. But, you will need to do one or the other, if you want to protect your sub.
Edit: Seeing Enrico's last post, I decided that I had better add something about DEQ. DEQ's effect is small at near Reference master volumes. For instance, at -5 MV, DEQ would add only +2.2db to the subwoofer. At -10 MV, DEQ would add +4.4db. DEQ adds 2.2db of bass boost for every -5 MV. It's action is a little more complicated than that, as explained in Section V of the Guide linked in my signature, but that's the essence of it. The bottom line is that at about -5 MV and above, DEQ is pretty much a non-factor.