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post #931 of 1774 Old 02-21-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
From what I hear the KC boys have some serious SPL going on.
That's what we thought.... before we made the trip up to Luke's last April. I will say though, Doug (d_c) here in KC has a new HT that is just insane when it comes to feel because he has 2 24's nearfield (drivers built into the bar behind the main seats - so BA - and 2 Othorns upfront.

He can't match the 150 db's of Luke though (haha, or the 125 db's measured in his kitchen and 105 in his back yard) but since Luke doesn't have nearfield subs it's a different experience at Doug's. Both setups are a blast.




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^^ Thanks. Only one of the guy is local with 4 Seaton F18’s and D-motion super bad ^ss theater. I travel for work and been hitting avsers from all over the places including carp and archaea (both in Kansas). Lukeamdman in MN wins spl as he was hitting over 150db. Notnyt bass system is up there also.

That was a lot of fun! I remember that Jonathan (archaea) came over and joined us but I don't remember what subs I was running at the time. Captivators? Submersives? Sealed SI's? I don't think I had the nearfield sub yet but I could be wrong.

You and I think alike. I've had the same sealed setup for years now and I have no desire to change anything because exactly like you say, I love how it sounds and I have all the headroom I need.
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post #932 of 1774 Old 02-21-2019, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
That's what we thought.... before we made the trip up to Luke's last April. I will say though, Doug (d_c) here in KC has a new HT that is just insane when it comes to feel because he has 2 24's nearfield (drivers built into the bar behind the main seats - so BA - and 2 Othorns upfront.

He can't match the 150 db's of Luke though (haha, or the 125 db's measured in his kitchen and 105 in his back yard) but since Luke doesn't have nearfield subs it's a different experience at Doug's. Both setups are a blast.
Yeah, I witnessed Luke’s famous round kitchen table dancing and jumping upstairs quite far away from his theater measured at 125db .
2 NF 24”? I have yet to experience that
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
That was a lot of fun! I remember that Jonathan (archaea) came over and joined us but I don't remember what subs I was running at the time. Captivators? Submersives? Sealed SI's? I don't think I had the nearfield sub yet but I could be wrong.

You and I think alike. I've had the same sealed setup for years now and I have no desire to change anything because exactly like you say, I love how it sounds and I have all the headroom I need.
You were just finishing building those 8 18” sealed SI’s sitting at your front stage and you also had a HSU 12” mbm behind the money seat. You also just got those 3 Noesis 212’s in and we were rocking some Metallica +5 and +10 on your MV with subs about 6 or 8db hot. I remember that was like a live metal concert in your room . Archaea was covering up his ears the whole time. Those Noesis 212’s were my first time exploring/listening to horn CD and they were really eyes opener.
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post #933 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
That's what we thought.... before we made the trip up to Luke's last April. I will say though, Doug (d_c) here in KC has a new HT that is just insane when it comes to feel because he has 2 24's nearfield (drivers built into the bar behind the main seats - so BA - and 2 Othorns upfront.

He can't match the 150 db's of Luke though (haha, or the 125 db's measured in his kitchen and 105 in his back yard) but since Luke doesn't have nearfield subs it's a different experience at Doug's. Both setups are a blast.







That was a lot of fun! I remember that Jonathan (archaea) came over and joined us but I don't remember what subs I was running at the time. Captivators? Submersives? Sealed SI's? I don't think I had the nearfield sub yet but I could be wrong.

You and I think alike. I've had the same sealed setup for years now and I have no desire to change anything because exactly like you say, I love how it sounds and I have all the headroom I need.
I'm curious what 150db in a house feels like, especially for home theater standpoint and need to visit some of these guys setups. If it feels as pressurize or more pressurized than 140db as in car audio I would be very impressed. I used to compete in usac so I'm familiar with spl inside the car....but not inside homes. I have all the output I need with dual 18s nearfield.....but no clue what the db it can reach and I'm scared to find out!

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post #934 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 07:50 AM
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Yeah, I witnessed Luke’s famous round kitchen table dancing and jumping upstairs quite far away from his theater measured at 125db .
2 NF 24”? I have yet to experience that

You were just finishing building those 8 18” sealed SI’s sitting at your front stage and you also had a HSU 12” mbm behind the money seat. You also just got those 3 Noesis 212’s in and we were rocking some Metallica +5 and +10 on your MV with subs about 6 or 8db hot. I remember that was like a live metal concert in your room . Archaea was covering up his ears the whole time. Those Noesis 212’s were my first time exploring/listening to horn CD and they were really eyes opener.
Say it ain't so! I hear @Archaea has an very impressive system as well! There is one guy I need to demo that lives relatively close to me and that is @beastaudio and I still been meaning to try to head up his direction when I have time. He has skhorns if I'm not wrong.

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post #935 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
I'm curious what 150db in a house feels like, especially for home theater standpoint and need to visit some of these guys setups. If it feels as pressurize or more pressurized than 140db as in car audio I would be very impressed. I used to compete in usac so I'm familiar with spl inside the car....but not inside homes. I have all the output I need with dual 18s nearfield.....but no clue what the db it can reach and I'm scared to find out!


db is db...it doesn't matter if it's in a car or living room.
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post #936 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Say it ain't so! I hear @Archaea has an very impressive system as well! There is one guy I need to demo that lives relatively close to me and that is @beastaudio and I still been meaning to try to head up his direction when I have time. He has skhorns if I'm not wrong.
Anytime bud. Correction though, Skhorn, singular...at least at the moment.... And also 10 sealed 18's now

Actually, I say anytime, but how 'bout we wait until I get a PJ up and running again? Shouldn't be too much longer. These dang JVC are rolling out slower than molasses.
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post #937 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 09:48 AM
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Hey @beastaudio , I would like to drive up and hear your system too.

Femi

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post #938 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 10:08 AM
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I'm curious what 150db in a house feels like
Essentially this...

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post #939 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 10:43 AM
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Say it ain't so! I hear @Archaea has an very impressive system as well! There is one guy I need to demo that lives relatively close to me and that is @beastaudio and I still been meaning to try to head up his direction when I have time. He has skhorns if I'm not wrong.
At that point, Archaea had a pair of the original JTR Captivators (the pro version). He also just got the 3 Noesis 228’s. Since then, he has moved and currently running a completely different set up. He is running 13 JBL CBT 70j-1 speakers with 8 sealed SI 18 subs and some Crowsons for a 9.8.4 setup Quite impressive! Archaea is not a metal head like Carp and usually does not listen as loud as Carp (I think or at least that was my impression).
I had also been to Beastaudio’s place and he also had a very impressive Atmos system with Dantley Synery Horn speakers (SH50?) and four dual opposed 18” subs he built. His system has been changed since then to JBL4722 speakers? Not sure. I remember telling Beastaudio that he does not listen as loud as the other bassheads I have been to. He looked at me and said we are at reference level or a bit over
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post #940 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 11:18 AM
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I'm curious what 150db in a house feels like, especially for home theater standpoint and need to visit some of these guys setups. If it feels as pressurize or more pressurized than 140db as in car audio I would be very impressed. I used to compete in usac so I'm familiar with spl inside the car....but not inside homes. I have all the output I need with dual 18s nearfield.....but no clue what the db it can reach and I'm scared to find out!


Here’s what it feels like...

@lukeamdman

You got some better footage? I didn’t capture enough that day, and I cleared out of the basement long before you got to maximum crazy. I remember seeing the outside unfinished outside walls of your home theater room flex what seemed like several inches. I primarily left your theater room before you peaked out so I could hold a conversation with my grandkids some day.

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post #941 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
At that point, Archaea had a pair of the original JTR Captivators (the pro version). He also just got the 3 Noesis 228’s. Since then, he has moved and currently running a completely different set up. He is running 13 JBL CBT 70j-1 speakers with 8 sealed SI 18 subs and some Crowsons for a 9.8.4 setup Quite impressive! Archaea is not a metal head like Carp and usually does not listen as loud as Carp (I think or at least that was my impression).
I had also been to Beastaudio’s place and he also had a very impressive Atmos system with Dantley Synery Horn speakers (SH50?) and four dual opposed 18” subs he built. His system has been changed since then to JBL4722 speakers? Not sure. I remember telling Beastaudio that he does not listen as loud as the other bassheads I have been to. He looked at me and said we are at reference level or a bit over
@carp 's settled down lately too. I think we are both getting older and a little more cautious with tinnitus concerns after some of our crazy demo session experiences.

carp has the Crowsons, and the 9, SI HT18 subwoofers
I have the 13 CBTs and 8 UM18-22 subwoofers. I used to have buttkickers, but I sold them off, because IMO, my nearfield subs overhadowed the buttkickers to the point they were unnecessary.

Crowsons are better than Buttkickers but pricier, and I'm satisfied with what I have in the bass/tactile dept.

We've both completely and entirely overhauled our rooms since you've visited last Tony. I'm not sure carp would have one thing that's the same, and I'm in a completely different house with I know 100% different stuff than when you visited. On the plus side I plan to keep what I have a very long time at this point. I think I'm finally settled on audio gear. (save a true 13 channel AVR, and a 4K projector at some point in the next 2-3 years when pricing levels out)

so yeah --- it's time for another visit to KC!

While here you can also hit @d_c 's place like carp said for that dual 24" nearfield experience.



Oh, and @beastaudio not listening as loud as the KC boys? Truth comes out...

Only reference? weak. (just kidding that's all I do anymore too)

@dlbeck demos at 18dB over reference on rare occasion. He's the wildman
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post #942 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 11:46 AM
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Hey @beastaudio , I would like to drive up and hear your system too.

Femi
Again, any time my friend!

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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
I'm curious what 150db in a house feels like, especially for home theater standpoint and need to visit some of these guys setups. If it feels as pressurize or more pressurized than 140db as in car audio I would be very impressed. I used to compete in usac so I'm familiar with spl inside the car....but not inside homes. I have all the output I need with dual 18s nearfield.....but no clue what the db it can reach and I'm scared to find out!
It's still a little different than car. The tactile is an important part of the sensation you get inside the car and if you don't have the nearfield going near as hard as your main sub system (which most people rarely do), you are going to get much more clean spl than tactile which changes the overall feeling completely. I think this may have been part of what Tony was saying about my particular setup where i don't have my nearfield anywhere close to the output level of my main subs...but from testing the same setup with Luke's high spl meter, I think we were getting close to 140dB on some stuff. Isn't that pretty accurate @lukeamdman ?

There is also hopefully going to be significantly less distortion than most 150dB capable car audio setups, inherent of ht overall design vs. spl drags. Distortion makes things sound much louder. As does rattling dashes, seats, windows, etc...
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post #943 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 11:51 AM
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That's the craziest thing I've seen in this world of home theater performance. It's one thing to see graphs and read anecdotal prose, but that video leaves no doubt as to how powerful that system is.
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post #944 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 01:09 PM
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IMO, my nearfield subs overhadowed the buttkickers to the point they were unnecessary.
Crowsons are better than Buttkickers but pricier, and I'm satisfied with what I have in the bass/tactile dept.

I also prefer VNF sub(s) over Crowsons and such.

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so yeah --- it's time for another visit to KC!

You know Carp and you will definitely hear from me when I am in your area
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Im a little biased, but I think this is one of the best all around 18's made...similar in performance to the Funk Audio 18's but priced a little lower. I might be a little biased about this driver
https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=112
Outguns the B&C 21" drivers.
At least you admit your bias lol. What are you basing this on

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post #946 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 04:45 PM
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At least you admit your bias lol. What are you basing this on
Data-bass results between the BMS18n862 and the 21SW152.
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@carp 's settled down lately too. I think we are both getting older and a little more cautious with tinnitus concerns after some of our crazy demo session experiences.
Jonathan or Sheldon showing restraint? I'm calling BS, it never happened! The only person crazier with the volume knob than those two is Jeff P.
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post #948 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 08:34 PM
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Jonathan or Sheldon showing restraint? I'm calling BS, it never happened! The only person crazier with the volume knob than those two is Jeff P.
Says the guy whose home is probably littered with random high output subs as we speak.
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post #949 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 08:46 PM
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Says the guy whose home is probably littered with random high output subs as we speak.
Guilty as charged...
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post #950 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 08:48 PM
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Guilty as charged...
What is your every day sub in your system? JTR still?
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post #951 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 08:59 PM
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What is your every day sub in your system? JTR still?
"every day" is a bit of a misnomer because most of the time I'm using a review unit - a PB3000 right now - but the sub I own personally is still the S1. For 2019 Jeff is updating the VC on the driver to lower inductance and subsequently lower distortion so I may upgrade my unit (lower distortion always makes Jim happy). Not much else I can divulge publicly beyond that however, but the new S1 should be available before the summer for those looking to purchase one.
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post #952 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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"every day" is a bit of a misnomer because most of the time I'm using a review unit - a PB3000 right now - but the sub I own personally is still the S1. For 2019 Jeff is updating the VC on the driver to lower inductance and subsequently lower distortion so I may upgrade my unit (lower distortion always makes Jim happy). Not much else I can divulge publicly beyond that however, but the new S1 should be available before the summer for those looking to purchase one.


I really admire Jeff for continuing to improve his products and not rest on his laurels. I was also very pleasantly surprised when he took my feedback after testing the 2019 20hz tuned 118HT and lowered the tune down to 17-18hz. Keeps his ear to the ground for sure.


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post #953 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 09:14 PM
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"every day" is a bit of a misnomer because most of the time I'm using a review unit - a PB3000 right now - but the sub I own personally is still the S1. For 2019 Jeff is updating the VC on the driver to lower inductance and subsequently lower distortion so I may upgrade my unit (lower distortion always makes Jim happy). Not much else I can divulge publicly beyond that however, but the new S1 should be available before the summer for those looking to purchase one.
You have to hand it to him, he is never satisfied with his subs/speakers. Always tweaking to get the most out of them.

I remember being shocked at how small the S1 was when it first came out and was at Jonathan's 2012 blind sub GTG. I remember thinking to myself that it was "cute".

It more than held it's own that day, it "won" for the movie section while the Submersive "won" for music.
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post #954 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I really admire Jeff for continuing to improve his products and not rest on his laurels. I was also very pleasantly surprised when he took my feedback after testing the 2019 20hz tuned 118HT and lowered the tune down to 17-18hz. Keeps his ear to the ground for sure.
Of all the JTR subs I've heard the 118HT had the best SQ in my opinion, better than the S1 I own. Jeff seemingly never appreciated my review where I said the 118HT was "polite and subtle, until it was time not to be subtle". That was a compliment as far as I was concerned, but he felt otherwise. I prefer detail and precision, qualities that don't shout "look at me!". The S1 has a tendency to be in your face sometimes, while the 118HT never displayed that. The S1 fit my size restrictions however, otherwise I likely would have chosen the 118HT for my own personal sub instead.
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post #955 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Of all the JTR subs I've heard the 118HT had the best SQ in my opinion, better than the S1 I own. Jeff seemingly never appreciated my review where I said the 118HT was "polite and subtle, until it was time not to be subtle". That was a compliment as far as I was concerned, but he felt otherwise. I prefer detail and precision, qualities that don't shout "look at me!". The S1 has a tendency to be in your face sometimes, while the 118HT never displayed that. The S1 fit my size restrictions however, otherwise I likely would have chosen the 118HT for my own personal sub instead.
I found the same Jim, The 118 SQ appealed to me more than the other higher end models using the higher excursion drivers as well. However I chalked that up to my room not liking the long decay times of the high excursion driver. The 118 and the FV8 paper cone sounded more similar than not but I would still give the edge to the FV18 for SQ plus it dug a lot deeper and hence I have them now....
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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #956 of 1774 Old 02-22-2019, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
"every day" is a bit of a misnomer because most of the time I'm using a review unit - a PB3000 right now - but the sub I own personally is still the S1. For 2019 Jeff is updating the VC on the driver to lower inductance and subsequently lower distortion so I may upgrade my unit (lower distortion always makes Jim happy). Not much else I can divulge publicly beyond that however, but the new S1 should be available before the summer for those looking to purchase one.
Ummm... I thought Jeff is working on the S21 and S221 for 2019...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
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FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #957 of 1774 Old 02-23-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Here’s what it feels like...
https://youtu.be/vatf5UNqZkk

@lukeamdman

You got some better footage? I didn’t capture enough that day, and I cleared out of the basement long before you got to maximum crazy. I remember seeing the outside unfinished outside walls of your home theater room flex what seemed like several inches. I primarily left your theater room before you peaked out so I could hold a conversation with my grandkids some day.
I have a few videos but the subs are barely working in these:





This is one of my favorites from a few years ago, and this was before I built the 8x ported 21s. I've subjectively "doubled" (+10db) the output since then.





What really impresses me with the ported subs is the pressure they can generate from 10-15hz. Besides the room quaking you don't hear much bass but your head feels like it's under water.
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post #958 of 1774 Old 02-23-2019, 10:38 AM
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Again, any time my friend!



It's still a little different than car. The tactile is an important part of the sensation you get inside the car and if you don't have the nearfield going near as hard as your main sub system (which most people rarely do), you are going to get much more clean spl than tactile which changes the overall feeling completely. I think this may have been part of what Tony was saying about my particular setup where i don't have my nearfield anywhere close to the output level of my main subs...but from testing the same setup with Luke's high spl meter, I think we were getting close to 140dB on some stuff. Isn't that pretty accurate @lukeamdman ?

There is also hopefully going to be significantly less distortion than most 150dB capable car audio setups, inherent of ht overall design vs. spl drags. Distortion makes things sound much louder. As does rattling dashes, seats, windows, etc...
The downside to that particular meter is that it doesn't pick up SPL transients very well. We were measuring a steady ~128db RMS and with peak SPL being at least 6db higher that's definitely somewhere in the 135-140db range.

You were also amp limited at the time which isn't the case anymore with your SP2-8000.
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Of all the JTR subs I've heard the 118HT had the best SQ in my opinion, better than the S1 I own. Jeff seemingly never appreciated my review where I said the 118HT was "polite and subtle, until it was time not to be subtle". That was a compliment as far as I was concerned, but he felt otherwise. I prefer detail and precision, qualities that don't shout "look at me!". The S1 has a tendency to be in your face sometimes, while the 118HT never displayed that. The S1 fit my size restrictions however, otherwise I likely would have chosen the 118HT for my own personal sub instead.
Hey Jim,are you in NJ? It'd be great to know someone in NJ who's into HT
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post #960 of 1774 Old 02-24-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Hey Jim,are you in NJ? It'd be great to know someone in NJ who's into HT
I am indeed. NW corner, Warren county. And you?

 
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