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post #1081 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'm hoping you have at least one JTR sweep (1400/2400ULF). I do have your PSA .MHTs. What are the current settings on your FV18s (ports/damping/ext/rumble)? Are you using PEQ?
I might something for Cap 1400 but will look tonight.

Current settings for FV18 are one port plugged, Hi damping, 14hz, rumble filter on, PEQ on, plus have tweaked it with minidsp HD and applying BEQ as well. Recently went Atmos too.
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post #1082 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
i don’t think we took any measurements with the 2400 ulf as it sounded so bad that we didn’t bother.
wha?!?!

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post #1083 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ianrozzano View Post
Are there any waterfalls of the G25HP?
Expect that it will look exactly like the F18.
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post #1084 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I might something for Cap 1400 but will look tonight.



Current settings for FV18 are one port plugged, Hi damping, 14hz, rumble filter on, PEQ on, plus have tweaked it with minidsp HD and applying BEQ as well. Recently went Atmos too.
Damn… you've been busy! 7.1.4? Denon?
Is the projector next? I'll be back in Houston soon (June maybe?), prepared for display calibrations.

High damping tells me you are now drinking the full Rythmik Kool-Aid!

If you don't have this Atmos title order it right now!!
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post #1085 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
If you don't have this Atmos title order it right now!!
I am pretty sure he has it already...

And so do I...


Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-11-2019 at 11:38 AM.
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post #1086 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I am pretty sure he has it already...

And so do I...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2f49B1k1GM
You have JTR speakers now? I've missed so much! I feel like I'm just awaking from a coma. (I haven't even tried to catchup on the subwoofer owner threads yet). Will you be around this next weekend?
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post #1087 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
You have JTR speakers now? I've missed so much! I feel like I'm just awaking from a coma. (I haven't even tried to catchup on the subwoofer owner threads yet). Will you be around this next weekend?
Yup! You sure have missed a lot...

Yes. Come on over!

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post #1088 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Damn… you've been busy! 7.1.4? Denon?
Is the projector next? I'll be back in Houston soon (June maybe?), prepared for display calibrations.

High damping tells me you are now drinking the full Rythmik Kool-Aid!
Yes been busy, went with 5.2.4. Going 7.2.4 meant that I would need to move the MT-110SR to the side walls and that was not going to work in my room well. Sounds excellent as is. Hit me up when you are in town, you are so close to me that we could meet up multiple times. We can arrange for some mini GTG for you, me, Enrico and Todd at each of our places. The projector is the weak link now but waiting for the real good 4K projector prices to come down, so I am in no hurry.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev 2 with Paper cone
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post #1089 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
wha?!?!
It was that dang high excursion driver with long decay times that caused muddiness in the bass and interfered with my speakers in my room. I also think the high excursions drivers caused more floor resonance as well since I am on suspended floor further exacerbating the issue....The JTR 118HT had no such issues and sounded wonderful in my room

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev 2 with Paper cone
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - PSA MT 110sr Surrounds - 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #1090 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'll be back in Houston soon (June maybe?), prepared for display calibrations.[/IMG]
Oh, oh, me me me! I might have my 77 oled by then.

Todd

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post #1091 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'm hoping you have at least one JTR sweep (1400/2400ULF). I do have your PSA .MHTs. What are the current settings on your FV18s (ports/damping/ext/rumble)? Are you using PEQ?
Marc, emailed you a one drive link with all measurements you could ever want, including one for the Cap 1400....

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev 2 with Paper cone
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - PSA MT 110sr Surrounds - 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #1092 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Oh, oh, me me me! I might have my 77 oled by then.

Todd
Done! You order that BBQ and I will bring Marc over there....
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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev 2 with Paper cone
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post #1093 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Damn… you've been busy! 7.1.4? Denon?
Is the projector next? I'll be back in Houston soon (June maybe?), prepared for display calibrations.

High damping tells me you are now drinking the full Rythmik Kool-Aid!

If you don't have this Atmos title order it right now!!
Just to be sure, Is this the one?
https://www.amazon.com/Hans-Zimmer-L...y&sr=8-1-fkmr0
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post #1094 of 1756 Old 03-11-2019, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Yes!
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post #1095 of 1756 Old 03-12-2019, 11:25 AM
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It was that dang high excursion driver with long decay times that caused muddiness in the bass and interfered with my speakers in my room. I also think the high excursions drivers caused more floor resonance as well since I am on suspended floor further exacerbating the issue....The JTR 118HT had no such issues and sounded wonderful in my room
I really wish you had have spent more time with the 2400 dialing in at the very least the LFE boost knob, as well as perhaps trying some filters just to see if you could get it to where you liked it. Between the two, while I understand the thought process, the 2400 is extremely well built and is not lacking motor to be able to handle very fast transients. extreme midbass "Kick" and output is simply not of what an LLT is designed to do however. The sonic signature of a sub that can handle well down to 10hz is always going to behave differently than a higher tuned model. Keep in mind the difference between 10hz and 18hz is the lion's share of a full octave....that's a lot!
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post #1096 of 1756 Old 03-12-2019, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I really wish you had have spent more time with the 2400 dialing in at the very least the LFE boost knob, as well as perhaps trying some filters just to see if you could get it to where you liked it. Between the two, while I understand the thought process, the 2400 is extremely well built and is not lacking motor to be able to handle very fast transients. extreme midbass "Kick" and output is simply not of what an LLT is designed to do however. The sonic signature of a sub that can handle well down to 10hz is always going to behave differently than a higher tuned model. Keep in mind the difference between 10hz and 18hz is the lion's share of a full octave....that's a lot!
I hear ya man, believe me we played with the LF adjust quite a bit but even Todd who the 2400 ULF belonged to was surprised how different and muddled the sub sounded in my room compared to his open room. I mean his sub was the reason I decided to go to a lower tuned sub to begin with. This was the second time I had tried this driver in my room, the first was a Cap 1400, same exact issue. The sub I landed on as you can see is the FV18, I have run it in 12hz and 14hz and do not have any issues at all. @Marc Alexander had predicted that this was a possibility in my room as it has a lot of room gain, like a closet. I am very pleased with the FV18s, good balance of TR, clear punchy bass and ability to dig deep. I have also noted that majority of the owners of these subs have open rooms, or media room that opens up to another room and also a lot of them seem to be on concrete which would take out any floor resonance that we experienced.
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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev 2 with Paper cone
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - PSA MT 110sr Surrounds - 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #1097 of 1756 Old 03-12-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I really wish you had have spent more time with the 2400 dialing in at the very least the LFE boost knob, as well as perhaps trying some filters just to see if you could get it to where you liked it. Between the two, while I understand the thought process, the 2400 is extremely well built and is not lacking motor to be able to handle very fast transients. extreme midbass "Kick" and output is simply not of what an LLT is designed to do however. The sonic signature of a sub that can handle well down to 10hz is always going to behave differently than a higher tuned model. Keep in mind the difference between 10hz and 18hz is the lion's share of a full octave....that's a lot!
The difference between 10Hz and 12Hz is not as much.

I understand where you are going @beastaudio . This path of the LF Adjust was fully explored. The extra full octave of extension is ultimately why we preferred the Rythmik FV18s to the JTR Cap 118HTs at that time. I believe Jeff has tweaked some things including lowering the tune of the 1200W 118HT since then. (We were in close contact with Jeff P. throughout)

The bottom line is that the Cap 1400/2400/4000 just is not going to work in this room. If the same room was on a concrete slab or basement, it would be a different story.

We will be glad to fill any gaps in for you. Ask away.
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post #1098 of 1756 Old 03-12-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The difference between 10Hz and 12Hz is not as much.

I understand where you are going @beastaudio . This path of the LF Adjust was fully explored. The extra full octave of extension is ultimately why we preferred the Rythmik FV18s to the JTR Cap 118HTs at that time. I believe Jeff has tweaked some things including lowering the tune of the 1200W 118HT since then. (We were in close contact with Jeff P. throughout)

The bottom line is that the Cap 1400/2400/4000 just is not going to work in this room. If the same room was on a concrete slab or basement, it would be a different story.

We will be glad to fill any gaps in for you. Ask away.
I would assume the subs were tested from the same location, all things being equal? Were there measurements taken or decay times run or is that what the graphs above were dictating? The FV18 with the two vents open mode's response almost mimics that of a traditional sealed subwoofer with a shallow rolloff through the bass region...even well before port tune. That would totally explain the behavior of a"Snappier" sound. The JTR 14/24/4000 is tuned more like the fv18 looks with all ports open, a dead-flat response groundplane, even slightly rising. That by itself will create the two very different sonic signatures. I'd love to see some graphs of the day you tested both if they are available.

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post #1099 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I am pretty sure he has it already...

And so do I...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2f49B1k1GM
If only Chris Nolan left the audio alone! The netflix version of this even sounds better than those movies. I love the Dark night as I use it as parts of my demos, I need to find a scene in Batman vs Superman to use.

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post #1100 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 12:45 PM
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Just to be sure, Is this the one?

https://www.amazon.com/Hans-Zimmer-L...y&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Yes!
So is the Blu-Ray the better buy than the CD considering I do not have Atmos??

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post #1101 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 01:25 PM
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So is the Blu-Ray the better buy than the CD considering I do not have Atmos??
Yes! The Atmos track will play in whatever speaker layout you have. There is also a 2ch LPCM track (48kHz/24-bit).

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/44-mo...ve-prague.html
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post #1102 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes! The Atmos track will play in whatever speaker layout you have. There is also a 2ch LPCM track (48kHz/24-bit).

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/44-mo...ve-prague.html


I actually don’t have this


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev 2 with Paper cone
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Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #1103 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I would assume the subs were tested from the same location, all things being equal? Were there measurements taken or decay times run or is that what the graphs above were dictating? The FV18 with the two vents open mode's response almost mimics that of a traditional sealed subwoofer with a shallow rolloff through the bass region...even well before port tune. That would totally explain the behavior of a"Snappier" sound. The JTR 14/24/4000 is tuned more like the fv18 looks with all ports open, a dead-flat response groundplane, even slightly rising. That by itself will create the two very different sonic signatures. I'd love to see some graphs of the day you tested both if they are available.
@beastaudio , there are in room measurements that I now have. I just need to parse through.

JTR's dead flat response is with LFA at max. The LFA control has differed over the years ( @chucky7 can fill in some gaps). I believe the Cap 4000ULF and 2400ULF featured an LFA control with 12dB of range (looks like a high-pass filter centered at 20Hz). At the end of 2017 JTR Increased the range to 18dB to allow a -18dB cut specifically to accommodate smaller, sealed rooms with cabin vessel gain. All Cap 1400/2400/4000 subs shipped since Jan 1, 2018 feature the -18dB cut.

Just a few anecdotes (I have the luxury [at the moment at least] to own both the Cap 2400ULF and Rythmik FV18):

My neighbor has a room almost the same size as @imureh 's, however it's on a concrete slab. He now has 3 2400ULFs installed without the issues @imureh experienced. We tested with my 2400ULF in his room before placing the order.

My downstairs space is on a slab and wide open to just to adjacent rooms but upstairs as well (25' ceiling in living room & entry). The FV18 (aluminum driver) just gets swallowed up and doesn't produce enough TR to be impactful with movies. Dual Seaton F18s actually produced more. Meanwhile the 2400ULF and 4000ULF are simply the best I've experienced in the space hands down. Move the FV18 upstairs and it's a whole different ballgame. Great TR and SQ better than any other ported sub I've heard. What I haven't done is cart the 2400ULF upstairs. These subs are simply widgets to determine the right solution based on a user's listening preferences and their room.

In regards to @toddct and @imureh I believe I am batting 1,000 in my recommendations for their rooms.

I believe I mentioned before that I built the RPI TR meter. I just haven't been able to produce any repeatable results outdoor GP as of yet. The waterfall looks to be an accurate predicter so far.

I probably left out several details so ask away. I'm also all ears to hear hypotheses, suggestions for testing, etc.
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post #1104 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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My neighbor has a room almost the same size as @imureh 's, however it's on a concrete slab. He now has 3 2400ULFs installed without the issues

So this is interesting Marc as I had finally landed that the high excursion driver does not sound good in small rooms due to long decay times. I knew floor resonance would have been a factor but not the primary one. Could it be the length and width dimension difference between his room and mine causing more issues with wavelengths in mine? I mean Todd was surprised how off his sub sounded in my room to the point he thought something was wrong with his sub. The 118 sounded great as you heard. So I had chalked it up to the driver difference. Any how the PC FV18 are giving me everything I wanted and more plus great SQ.



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Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #1105 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 06:39 PM
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When I was at your house Marc and listened to both of the 2400ulf and the FV18 Aluminum down stairs on your concrete slab, I thought the fv18 was plenty with good TR. I guess we all hear and feel differently: Plenty and enough for me do not mean the same for others.
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post #1106 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
When I was at your house Marc and listened to both of the 2400ulf and the FV18 Aluminum down stairs on your concrete slab, I thought the fv18 was plenty with good TR. I guess we all hear and feel differently: Plenty and enough for me do not mean the same for others.
When I heard the FV18 Alum cone at Marc's den in June of 2017, the TR was just not cutting it for me, especially hearing it right after the Cap 118HT, much less the Cap 1400.

I believe when I played the 4000ULF at Marc's den in 2018, Marc was cleaning up in his room upstairs and the TR scared the S-H-I-T out of him... LOL...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 03-13-2019 at 07:00 PM.
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post #1107 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 07:00 PM
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^^ FV18 TR was less than the 2400ulf but still had good amount. I was having fun and completely forgot about the VibSensor. Perhaps, Marc can VibSensor for us?
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post #1108 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Man, I need to make a trip out to California!


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev 2 with Paper cone
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - PSA MT 110sr Surrounds - 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra & Premium, Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #1109 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
When I was at your house Marc and listened to both of the 2400ulf and the FV18 Aluminum down stairs on your concrete slab, I thought the fv18 was plenty with good TR. I guess we all hear and feel differently: Plenty and enough for me do not mean the same for others.
I disqualified you after you asked me, "what is chest slam?". You even have the B1200Ds.

You certainly seem to be one of those who don't experience TR as much. It was a while back but I remember you would say no after I would ask if you felt several different sensations. You are accustomed to High damping on the Rythmik which is as taught and detailed as a ported sub can get.
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post #1110 of 1756 Old 03-13-2019, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
When I heard the FV18 Alum cone at Marc's den in June of 2017, the TR was just not cutting it for me, especially hearing it right after the Cap 118HT, much less the Cap 1400.
Yes, it was/is night and day. @tvuong is just an outlier. But so is @chucky7 , just at the opposite end of the spectrum. @chucky7 is all about the TR.

Quote:
I believe when I played the 4000ULF at Marc's den in 2018, Marc was cleaning up in his room upstairs and the TR scared the S-H-I-T out of him... LOL...
+10dB over reference was out of line! Jeff P. told me he seriously feared for the windows.
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