Subwoofer comparisons and impressions - Page 48 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 1757 Old 04-16-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post

Everyone doesn't always agree. Mark didn't agree with all of your statements about your S3000i vs his Submersives, that they are the same for all intents and purposes (I do keep chat transcripts). Brian didn't agree with your statements regarding his company either. What I've learned is that no one knows @Rythmik better than @Rythmik . Same for any vendor. That's when I started talking to all of the vendors and evaluating subs for myself. In fact, Mark and I had a few discussions face-to-face Saturday night. There is only one vendor who makes things like this awkward and that is you.
Good post and I agree with you there. Worst case, we can always agree to disagree and it doesn't have to be awkward.
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post #1412 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Good post and I agree with you there. Worst case, we can always agree to disagree and it doesn't have to be awkward.
I sincerely hope we see more open technical debate, where people can understand a technical argument and difference of position is not a personal attack.

Most all of us product designers and others who are technically experienced will have differing takes on what qualities and factors we prioritize, along with different takes on what thresholds for distortions, nonlinearities, and capabilities are good enough or how far it might be worth pushing them.

One of the biggest problem in most areas where technical details and preference collide is reluctance to admit that we might not yet be sure why someone preferred one solution to another. Instead we love to hypothesize or proclaim, often on little more than a hunch or coincidental observation. These assertions of why we might prefer one option to another is where arguments start and too many get personally invested in their assertion being correct.

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post #1413 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
I sincerely hope we see more open technical debate, where people can understand a technical argument and difference of position is not a personal attack.



Most all of us product designers and others who are technically experienced will have differing takes on what qualities and factors we prioritize, along with different takes on what thresholds for distortions, nonlinearities, and capabilities are good enough or how far it might be worth pushing them.



One of the biggest problem in most areas where technical details and preference collide is reluctance to admit that we might not yet be sure why someone preferred one solution to another. Instead we love to hypothesize or proclaim, often on little more than a hunch or coincidental observation. These assertions of why we might prefer one option to another is where arguments start and too many get personally invested in their assertion being correct.


Mark, technical discussions are fine and most of us end users don’t understand most of the technicalities anyways. However at the end of the day we as end users rely on our limited knowledge learnt from guys like yourself around optimizing the set up of our equipment and then going with what sounds best to us. This thread was exactly for that intent. There is no right or wrong here but an attempt to compare different offerings from different brands compared in the same environment. No one can say for sure that one brand would better for some one in their room than the other without trying it out and even then it’s subjective. We all feel that the product we chose is the best one as we see it as an extension of ourselves and we defend them rightly or wrongly. As long as we can be respectful to other's choices and not belittle them it is fine to disagree and educate.


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post #1414 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
I sincerely hope we see more open technical debate, where people can understand a technical argument and difference of position is not a personal attack.

Most all of us product designers and others who are technically experienced will have differing takes on what qualities and factors we prioritize, along with different takes on what thresholds for distortions, nonlinearities, and capabilities are good enough or how far it might be worth pushing them.

One of the biggest problem in most areas where technical details and preference collide is reluctance to admit that we might not yet be sure why someone preferred one solution to another. Instead we love to hypothesize or proclaim, often on little more than a hunch or coincidental observation. These assertions of why we might prefer one option to another is where arguments start and too many get personally invested in their assertion being correct.
That's really an important point Mark. Some of us dedicate the majority of our lives to the industry because we have an obsession/passion for the science. We'll spend thousands of hours measuring and listening and, most importantly, attempting to correlate what we're measuring to what we're hearing. And for those who have invested these efforts we understand/accept the importance of causation versus correlation. And even more important, we don't form grossly premature conclusions on cherry picked quasi-evidence simply to find some cheap debating advantage on a forum. Even after (approx) 25 years of this...inside, outside, measure, listen, tweak, repeat, over and over and over there's so much I can't say with 100% certainty about so many things. But I see someone going outside with a umik and rew5 for one weekend and that's it...definitive conclusions are now in place.

Then again I better watch what I post because it's all being recorded and in the next mean girls episode someone is going to tattle on me and send you a transcript


Also, my previous post regarding THD versus compression and the audibility of those seem to have confused a few as they quoted Josh saying both can be equally audible as an argument. It may be useful for some to take a step back and try reading what is being posted before rushing into those irrelevant retorts. OF COURSE they *CAN* be equally audible. But that has NOTHING to do with my post which was referencing one specific comparison that was made using specific values.

CEA-2010, literally a 2.5% difference. It was something like 19% versus 21%?
Compression, 3.5dB difference.

In the above scenario a 3.5dB difference will always be audible, even to the most casual listener. The THD difference would be impossible to hear unless there was something very unusual about the THD breakdoiwn. (odds versus evens, etc).

And, per my previous post, if we lower the higher output(cea-2010) so there's no difference in max output. Lowering the funk to the rythmik...then the funk's THD would be significantly less than the 21%(?) it averaged in my example. How much exactly is impossible to say without retesting but half wouldn't be a badd guess. So now, at the same output as the rythmik, it would have about HALF the thd. Say 20% versu 10%. I'm not going to aruge even THAT would be audible to the large majority.

Anyway, I think most are following what I tried to explain. My apologies if I came off short about it, I just have an increasing lower tolerance for snake oil BS these days like anything over 18 inch will be inherently slow or inaccurate. I've never even had a product reach market with a driver bigger than 18 inch, I may never go there. So this isn't about protecting my $$$ interests. It's just the industry has so much BS the consumer has to wade through already there's no need to dump another bucket on them like this.

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post #1415 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Some of us dedicate the majority of our lives to the industry because we have an obsession/passion for the science. We'll spend thousands of hours measuring and listening and, most importantly, attempting to correlate what we're measuring to what we're hearing. And for those who have invested these efforts we understand/accept the importance of causation versus correlation. And even more important, we don't form grossly premature conclusions on cherry picked quasi-evidence simply to find some cheap debating advantage on a forum. Even after (approx) 25 years of this...inside, outside, measure, listen, tweak, repeat, over and over and over there's so much I can't say with 100% certainty about so many things. But I see someone going outside with a umik and rew5 for one weekend and that's it...definitive conclusions are now in place.
Not sure who exactly your comments are aimed at but if it's to the general consumer on these forums expressing their opinion, I think your comments are a little unfair. The majority of us on here do not have thousands of hours to pour over every technical aspect of sub design and comparisons. This is not our full time job. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe most of us try to do our best with the whatever equipment we have and try to express a fair and balanced opinion. As you know, when that opinion or something stated as fact is not true, it tends to be fleshed out pretty quick. That being said, I think most consumers can smell BS on here and overall fan boys don't fair well, they tend to be singled out and well known. So your statement that definitive conclusions are reached over a weekend by a single poster........well, that's probably giving some posters a little too much credit and those reading, not enough. I guess what I'm getting at is that while all of us are not perfect in our posts, we try to add to the overall understanding and help others looking for subwoofer choice. Whether we have 25+ years or not, people are going to conclude why they like one sub over the other and discuss their conclusions. For some, it may be technical, for others, pure preference. To seemingly dismiss some of this because it's not written on a white paper does a disservice to the the forum in my opinion. On the flip side, not everything that is written is to be believed. But what do I know, I'm just a guy with a umik and REW testing on the weekends.

Todd
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post #1416 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 10:11 AM
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Guys just clarify a point , "grossly" (there's that word again!) overlooked. Pay close attention to the fact Brian said he personally feels it would be "harder" , not impossible

"So the loss of cone control is correlated to Mms (inertia). If pro driver is so good why not everyone just copy 2242 and call it done? First, 2242 has limited excursion in today's standard. Long excursion requires longer voice coil which leads to higher Mms. Second, cone in 2242 is not rigid at all, meaning it is going to have more flexing. All fixes to this cone rigidity problem will just increase the Mms. I have gone through this process for 18" it take quite a bit of effort for me to get the 0 phase crossover point maintained at 100hz. While some may encourage me to do a 22", I personally feel it is even harder than 18" driver."


The whole new thing with ID companies going with larger drivers and now attaching the old saying "larger subs are slower" debate and or saying to it is not so new. The 18" and larger subs have been around for quite sometime on the market! Velodyne, Revel,Wilson to name a few have had them for years. So I'm loving the discussion! but still all the more curious as to even when changing and make all the relevant changes , lighter cone with increased stiffness, stronger magnet and basket etc.. This topic still remains! What's amiss if anything is?
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post #1417 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Not sure who exactly your comments are aimed at but if it's to the general consumer on these forums expressing their opinion, I think your comments are a little unfair. The majority of us on here do not have thousands of hours to pour over every technical aspect of sub design and comparisons. This is not our full time job. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe most of us try to do our best with the whatever equipment we have and try to express a fair and balanced opinion. As you know, when that opinion or something stated as fact is not true, it tends to be fleshed out pretty quick. That being said, I think most consumers can smell BS on here and overall fan boys don't fair well, they tend to be singled out and well known. So your statement that definitive conclusions are reached over a weekend by a single poster........well, that's probably giving some posters a little too much credit and those reading, not enough. I guess what I'm getting at is that while all of us are not perfect in our posts, we try to add to the overall understanding and help others looking for subwoofer choice. Whether we have 25+ years or not, people are going to conclude why they like one sub over the other and discuss their conclusions. For some, it may be technical, for others, pure preference. To seemingly dismiss some of this because it's not written on a white paper does a disservice to the the forum in my opinion. On the flip side, not everything that is written is to be believed. But what do I know, I'm just a guy with a umik and REW testing on the weekends.

Todd
He specifically meant Marc Alexander, proving one of the points Marc made in his long post. Marc tested a bunch of subwoofers with the help of Chucky7 and others a year or so back. There's a thread about it somewhere.
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post #1418 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
He specifically meant Marc Alexander, proving one of the points Marc made in his long post. Marc tested a bunch of subwoofers with the help of Chucky7 and others a year or so back. There's a thread about it somewhere.
Here is that thread. If his v1801 fairs well against other subs tested, I am sure he would appreciate @Marc Alexander 's effort for that one weekend

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-ar...ofer-meet.html
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post #1419 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Not sure who exactly your comments are aimed at but if it's to the general consumer on these forums expressing their opinion, I think your comments are a little unfair. The majority of us on here do not have thousands of hours to pour over every technical aspect of sub design and comparisons. This is not our full time job. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe most of us try to do our best with the whatever equipment we have and try to express a fair and balanced opinion. As you know, when that opinion or something stated as fact is not true, it tends to be fleshed out pretty quick. That being said, I think most consumers can smell BS on here and overall fan boys don't fair well, they tend to be singled out and well known. So your statement that definitive conclusions are reached over a weekend by a single poster........well, that's probably giving some posters a little too much credit and those reading, not enough. I guess what I'm getting at is that while all of us are not perfect in our posts, we try to add to the overall understanding and help others looking for subwoofer choice. Whether we have 25+ years or not, people are going to conclude why they like one sub over the other and discuss their conclusions. For some, it may be technical, for others, pure preference. To seemingly dismiss some of this because it's not written on a white paper does a disservice to the the forum in my opinion. On the flip side, not everything that is written is to be believed. But what do I know, I'm just a guy with a umik and REW testing on the weekends.

Todd
I thought it was clear who I was referencing---anyone who

1)will spend very little time attempting to make accurate repeatable measurements.

AND THEN

2)will snap-jump to a conclusion that simply reaffirms their entire POV.

AND THEN

3)will jump into threads will silly confrontational posts based on this highly biased data-set which is a mile from complete without even a semblance of causation versus correlation.


I worded it poorly and apologize for that. Mark basically said the very same thing, but like Mark does, in a much more PC manner...where's my tango and cash video...

Anyway, certainly not directed at you Todd.

My whole point was specific to a unique comparison imureh made. Somehow the retort to that post included threats about disclosing private chats not even remotely related to anythign being discussed. And now we have the go find any negative "review" of something, again, not even remotely related to the post I made. I mean, this is the discussion? Here's my POV. Oh yeah!?! Well you suck and I'm telling on you and oh yeah, here's a bad review of your sub!!!

Let's not actually focus on the post or anything ..

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post #1420 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I thought it was clear who I was referencing---anyone who

1)will spend very little time attempting to make accurate repeatable measurements.

AND THEN

2)will snap-jump to a conclusion that simply reaffirms their entire POV.

AND THEN

3)will jump into threads will silly confrontational posts based on this highly biased data-set which is a mile from complete without even a semblance of causation versus correlation.


I worded it poorly and apologize for that. Mark basically said the very same thing, but like Mark does, in a much more PC manner...where's my tango and cash video...

Anyway, certainly not directed at you Todd.

My whole point was specific to a unique comparison imureh made. Somehow the retort to that post included threats about disclosing private chats not even remotely related to anythign being discussed. And now we have the go find any negative "review" of something, again, not even remotely related to the post I made. I mean, this is the discussion? Here's my POV. Oh yeah!?! Well you suck and I'm telling on you and oh yeah, here's a bad review of your sub!!!

Let's not actually focus on the post or anything ..

Tom V.
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No worries, I appreciate the clarification. I honestly did not realize who you were referencing until it was pointed out. I didn't take it personally (well enough that I posted )and didn't think you were necessarily directing it at me. Perhaps I should have read your post closer, it just came off as a blanket statement for some of the less experienced members dipping our toes in the water.

Anyway, I am looking forward to your new subs and impressions out in the wild.

Todd

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post #1421 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 05:14 PM
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Cool

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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Anyway, I am looking forward to your new subs and impressions out in the wild.
Todd
I am more looking forward to another gtg (heard about your margarita ) featuring the new sub against yours, Ray’s, FV25 and who knows new offerings from JTR, Seaton?
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post #1422 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 05:37 PM
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Guys just clarify a point , "grossly" (there's that word again!) overlooked. Pay close attention to the fact Brian said he personally feels it would be "harder" , not impossible
This is revisionist history. No one was questioning Brian's claim that for *his* servo systems, designing a larger driver than 18" would be harder. As a matter of fact, I directly quoted this in post 1393 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57904404)

It was the blanket statement made by Enrico that "ANY driver more than 18"" would have "lower speed and less accuracy" that ignited the passionate responses, which to his credit, he acknowledged was incorrect/inappropriate and he apologized for making that assertion.
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post #1423 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 09:39 PM
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Here is that thread. If his v1801 fairs well against other subs tested, I am sure he would appreciate @Marc Alexander 's effort for that one weekend

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-ar...ofer-meet.html
While the narrative became "over a weekend" the testing took place over the period of 5 weeks or so. I was communicating with all of the ID vendors including @Jim Farina of PSA (formerly) throughout. The GTG is what was over a weekend (Sat & Sun) and was attended by many in our Los Angeles group including some industry insiders. The PSA wasn't tested until the week following the observations at the GTG. Everything was retested as we payed closer attention to noise My backyard measurements actually validated PSA's listed averages as they were within 0.2dB from 31.5Hz - 100Hz.

The testing was indeed imperfect as noise outdoors will often not be audible in room. There was just one sub that exhibited excessive audible noise in two separate rooms (duals were tested in room vs dual MFW-15Ts vs singles of the Rythmik and JTR). The conclusion was that PSA's method of reporting 16-25Hz averages artificially inflates the perceptions of the sub's capability at 16 & 20 Hz. These observations were NOT meant as a personal attack. In fact I attempted to discuss the results with PSA prior to posting but Jim went dark and Tom refused comment. (I suspect Jim was directed to halt the communication).

I have conducted many more measurements since with my current rig (Clio 12, mic-01, mic-02, ACO Pacific 7012/7052). I have also visited many other rooms and other GTGs. I stand by all of the above. There is no fabrication taking place.

This actually has relevance to this thread. With the low-tuned subs coming from PSA, I'd be surprised if the majority wouldn't prefer ⅓octave measurements rather than the PSA averages (which don't correlate to any standard or any other vendor). HSU research is an example of reporting numbers "by the book".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
My whole point was specific to a unique comparison imureh made. Somehow the retort to that post included threats about disclosing private chats not even remotely related to anythign being discussed. And now we have the go find any negative "review" of something, again, not even remotely related to the post I made. I mean, this is the discussion? Here's my POV. Oh yeah!?! Well you suck and I'm telling on you and oh yeah, here's a bad review of your sub!!!
I think you missed the point. We can discuss without things becoming personal. We can disagree or challenge assertions without resorting to personal attacks. Users should be empowered rather than attacked/discredited by an owner for posting anything perceived as negative.
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post #1424 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 09:48 PM
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I may be wrong, but I believe this thread along with the BassEQ thread directly impacted the speed at which the new PSA subs are coming to market. It's the beauty of competition. The consumers win!
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post #1425 of 1757 Old 04-17-2019, 10:52 PM
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I may be wrong, but I believe this thread along with the BassEQ thread directly impacted the speed at which the new PSA subs are coming to market. It's the beauty of competition. The consumers win!

Consumers win indeed! I love the concepts and intent behind the new subs they are teasing, should be tons of fun around here soon!

Side note: I see Tom is catching some flack around here lately, but I hope everyone realizes he is one of the most entertaining posters on AVS (and possibly any forum). His combination of technical knowledge, status within his industry, and willingness to discuss/debate with even the most casual basshead is fascinating. He enjoys talking with us so much he even comes on here to vent... it truly is unique considering many people with his technical capabilities live in their laboratories, and intentionally avoid helping/interacting with anyone.

I can’t think of any other industry where such a major talent is this accessible. Enjoy it while it last guys, eventually we will miss this stuff.


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post #1426 of 1757 Old 04-18-2019, 11:00 AM
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10Hz output is way, way overrated around here lately IMHO.
Shut up, Nerd.


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post #1427 of 1757 Old 04-18-2019, 06:25 PM
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Shut up, Nerd.


Mods, don't ban me. We are friends (I think) and this is meant in jest.
That's Mr. Nerd to you bruh.
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post #1428 of 1757 Old 04-18-2019, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Here is that thread. If his v1801 fairs well against other subs tested, I am sure he would appreciate @Marc Alexander 's effort for that one weekend

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-ar...ofer-meet.html
ouch.
just read most of that thread.
i see what you mean.
wonder if they ever got the chuffing thing under control ?
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post #1429 of 1757 Old 04-18-2019, 08:28 PM
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ouch.
just read most of that thread.
i see what you mean.
wonder if they ever got the chuffing thing under control ?
Nope.

The selling point of the PSA V1801 is its size - a 18" driver in a 15" ported sub. Therefore, it's tuned much higher (low 20 Hz) and its extension and ULF output suffers. This is apparent when compared to the other stellar 18" JTR and Rythmik subs. The chuffing was so atrocious that one member started calling PSA V1801 the chuffmaster, the GTG the chuffinggate, the write-up the chuffington post... It was by far the worst chuffing I have ever heard.

Not only that, PSA V1801's SQ just didn't measure up to JTR or Rythmik subs. This is the same result from the Houston GTG. It's unfortunate that some people will never know without comparing PSA vs JTR or Rythmik.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 04-18-2019 at 10:56 PM.
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post #1430 of 1757 Old 04-18-2019, 08:36 PM
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Subwoofer comparisons and impressions

Sorry for being confrontational
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Last edited by kelly.mcaloney; 04-19-2019 at 06:35 AM.
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post #1431 of 1757 Old 04-18-2019, 08:44 PM
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You are literally the worst person on Avs, I have two v1811 in my theatre and nothing! No chugging at all! I'm not a fan boy either? Your the best, your subs are the best!! I feel Sorry for you! Nothing better to do, buy some good subs and that's it, that puts u at the top of your game!! Anything to stay relevant! Pathetic!
Hey... I thought you liked my post!!!


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Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #1432 of 1757 Old 04-18-2019, 08:53 PM
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Hey... I thought you liked my post!!!



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post #1433 of 1757 Old 04-18-2019, 09:24 PM
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Must have liked it accidentally.
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post #1434 of 1757 Old 04-19-2019, 07:49 AM
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Please read my comments in the previously linked comparison thread. Totally trashing subs because they have a more offensive port noise than another is just silly. I was very honest about the testing I did with my V1801’s and V1800’s, and the pair I still have excel in every way for 99.9% of content at their limits.

Does the pulse server scene or movies like A Quiet Place cause them to chuff, absolutely. If it really were an issue, they wouldn’t be so popular. Would I prefer no untoward port noise? Of course, but that’s the nature of vented subs and this particular design. There’s no free lunch.

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post #1435 of 1757 Old 04-19-2019, 10:19 AM
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At the end of the day, if one is happy with what he/she has, that is all matter. The reason for these GTGs is to have fun and get a bunch of enthusiastic guys/gals to setup, listen and compare various different products and form their opinions. Some gtgs even have measurements whether it is being measured by someone with lots of experiences or some experiences, the measurements might not be the absolute accurate max output/distortion level measurements on each product but are a FAIR comparison among the tested products. If the same opinion is being mentioned by multiple folks and/or by multiple gtgs, IMO, there must be some truths/credibilities from those opinions. To me, a gtg is not made to bash a particular brand/model, the results, opinions, discussion/debates afterward might make it seem so however. Not everything is tested on data-bass and even then, there is no way for us to know how the tested sub exactly sounds. This is why I do like to attend gtgs and to read opinions/discussions from them.
The best way to know for sure for oneself is to audition subs in one own room like Ray did and pick the winner for yourself, but not everyone can afford to do that due to return shipping $$$. Ray’s thread here is to help folks in this exact situation. I do think what Ray found and the discussions in this thread is what leads to the new psa lower tuned subs.
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post #1436 of 1757 Old 04-19-2019, 06:21 PM
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At the end of the day, if one is happy with what he/she has, that is all matter. The reason for these GTGs is to have fun and get a bunch of enthusiastic guys/gals to setup, listen and compare various different products and form their opinions. Some gtgs even have measurements whether it is being measured by someone with lots of experiences or some experiences, the measurements might not be the absolute accurate max output/distortion level measurements on each product but are a FAIR comparison among the tested products. If the same opinion is being mentioned by multiple folks and/or by multiple gtgs, IMO, there must be some truths/credibilities from those opinions. To me, a gtg is not made to bash a particular brand/model, the results, opinions, discussion/debates afterward might make it seem so however. Not everything is tested on data-bass and even then, there is no way for us to know how the tested sub exactly sounds. This is why I do like to attend gtgs and to read opinions/discussions from them.
The best way to know for sure for oneself is to audition subs in one own room like Ray did and pick the winner for yourself, but not everyone can afford to do that due to return shipping $$$. Ray’s thread here is to help folks in this exact situation. I do think what Ray found and the discussions in this thread is what leads to the new psa lower tuned subs.
Agree. Ray did it the right way. He was able to listen to several subs and choose which sub was the best fit for him and his room.
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 PSA S3600I'S, and 2 UM18-22/iNUKE6000DSP DIY subs.
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post #1437 of 1757 Old 04-19-2019, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Not only that, PSA V1801's SQ just didn't measure up to JTR or Rythmik subs. This is the same result from the Houston GTG. It's unfortunate that some people will never know without comparing PSA vs JTR or Rythmik.
That's not an accurate characterization IMO.

I don't believe we even listened to the PSA in Todd's large room at the Houston GTG. The V1801s' SQ was very good in @imureh 's small room (Enrico and I visited & listened the day before the GTG). Also, the JTR Cap 1400 and 2400ULF did not sound good in his room.
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post #1438 of 1757 Old 04-19-2019, 11:21 PM
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@chucky7 and I are friends. He has helped me out when I have really needed it.

However, I do find him to a JTR fanboy and troll PSA. We often disagree. However, I don't base friendships on hobbies or politics.
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post #1439 of 1757 Old 04-20-2019, 03:57 AM
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That's not an accurate characterization IMO.

I don't believe we even listened to the PSA in Todd's large room at the Houston GTG. The V1801s' SQ was very good in @imureh 's small room (Enrico and I visited & listened the day before the GTG). Also, the JTR Cap 1400 and 2400ULF did not sound good in his room.
You probably didn't. However, like all subs present that day, it had a fair chance to shine: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-ar...l#post56886984

Maybe you were running around playing music chair?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 04-20-2019 at 04:35 AM.
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post #1440 of 1757 Old 04-20-2019, 04:35 AM
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@chucky7 and I are friends. He has helped me out when I have really needed it.

However, I do find him to a JTR fanboy and troll PSA. We often disagree. However, I don't base friendships on hobbies or politics.
Yeah man! Let me know when you want to come over and check out the stuff I have accumulated since 2018!

Now, I would characterize myself as an advocate for getting the most complete movie experience for the money. IMO, a perfect sub would have the output, extension, SQ, as well as TR and port wind necessary for that experience. It's coincidental that currently JTR's ported offerings check all the boxes in my room.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 04-20-2019 at 05:38 AM.
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