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post #1621 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
While I love and use BEQ, one issue with BEQ is the assumption that all of the ULF was filtered in the first place. My understanding is that the BEQ filters attempt to make it so that the peaks at every frequency are at the same SPL. But what if the 10 hz content was never intended to be as loud as the 30 hz content?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Exactly. BEQ gets away from director/mixer's intent to create a bass-lovers dream track compared to the original. I am not a purist by any means here, and have experienced BEQ via MaxMercy's demo disc YEARS ago and loved every second of it, but you can't deny the more and more work you do with BEQ, the further and further you get from director's intent, even if you vehemently disagree with said intent
We may never know what the director/mixer's intent is without them telling us specifically,
But here's an excellent example of what their intent was on the 2002 bluray Hellboy II/DTS-HD MA 7.1...


10Hz at -15dB
2002 Bluray (Dashed line is without BEQ)


Hellboy II 4K/UHD/DTS:X re-release (same movie)
(That's been "Disney'd" and would suck ass without BEQ)

10Hz at -45dB (Dashed line without BEQ)...Down 30dB W-T-F!


So if the "intent" was to totally castrate the awesome LFE/ULF <30Hz content for soundbar users,
Who's to say it's wrong when it comes to utilizing BEQ for restoring it Back to full bandwidth for those of us with Full Range Capable systems?

DTS-HD MA 7.1 (Left with BEQ, Right without BEQ)


DTS:X (Left with BEQ, Right without BEQ)


BEQ is just leveling the playing field by restoring what was lost.... (or should I say "Stolen" )
...and who's to say that's not exactly what's happening with the majority of the latest crippled movie releases?

Maybe I'm biased, but I get a lot more out of my Movie Experience with BEQ, and not just for my Funks
...I also appreciate the Single Digit frequencies with my Crowson motion actuators that go down to 3Hz.

I'm in a concrete basement (walls and floor) with no real room gain at all.
So even my Dual 18.0 Funk's don't produce significant SPL below 10Hz.

Black Hawk Down IREEEEEENE 6Hz scene...lots of driver movement, ULF pressure is there, just barely,
But it's the Crowson's that Really add the Tactile feeling to round out the overall experience.



in addition to restoring lost LFE below 25Hz, BEQ also adds significant Single Digit output
...that would likely be lost on many without Crowson's, Buttkicker's or a BOSS system.


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post #1622 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
We may never know what the director/mixer's intent is without them telling us specifically,
But here's an excellent example of what their intent was on the 2002 bluray Hellboy II/DTS-HD MA 7.1...
That's a modern tragedy that they would do such a thing to such an incredible soundtrack. There has got to be some way to find someone higher up at Disney to explain/confirm this intentional garbage...
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post #1623 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 01:56 PM
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So this means that bluray 2k and 4k version don't have same bass? So from what I'm looking at is the 2k version has more bass content or at least not botched. For some reason I always assumed 4k version was same soundtrack but added atmos and of course higher resolution....little did I know they would completely wipe out the ULF content or at least reduced it to where its not felt. Such a shame!

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post #1624 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
So this means that bluray 2k and 4k version don't have same bass? So from what I'm looking at is the 2k version has more bass content or at least not botched. For some reason I always assumed 4k version was same soundtrack but added atmos and of course higher resolution....little did I know they would completely wipe out the ULF content or at least reduced it to where its not felt. Such a shame!
THIS is exactly what BEQ was intended to counter.

BTW, just for clarity, HellBoy II The Golden Army was Universal Studios, not Disney.
I was using the the term Disney'd as a metaphor for their ATMOUSED direction since jumping into the 4K/UHD era
...Perhaps Universal is following in their footsteps

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post #1625 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Im the wierdo here.. I do not use BEQ and probably will never.. but maybe because I am mainly a music dude.
Me either. I can throw some shelves or other boosts in if I want, but I barely have time to sit down and watch a whole movie let alone taking the time to EQ them before I do. I do have a bunch of BEQ movies though thanks to a generous friend and they are an improvement in a lot of cases. A little too over the top but fun in other ones.
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post #1626 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 07:21 PM
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After you've done the initial install/setup for the miniDSP and BEQ Designer app just once,

It takes less than 1 minute to merge 760+ movie/netflix BEQ settings from the Github repo with your own personal house curve settings, (if you have one)
and after you've done that once, it's only a single mouse click to load any movie's BEQ+HC from your laptop to a miniDSP device for playback.

...about the same time it takes to remove a disc from it's case, place it your BD players tray, sit down and hit the play button.


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post #1627 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
THIS is exactly what BEQ was intended to counter.

BTW, just for clarity, HellBoy II The Golden Army was Universal Studios, not Disney.
I was using the the term Disney'd as a metaphor for their ATMOUSED direction since jumping into the 4K/UHD era
...Perhaps Universal is following in their footsteps

So if you don't have BEQ...

1080P + Dolby or DTS upmixers if you want overhead sound and good bass?

Also, boosting below 10Hz, you better have good sealed subs.

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post #1628 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
So if you don't have BEQ...

1080P + Dolby or DTS upmixers if you want overhead sound and good bass?

Also, boosting below 10Hz, you better have good sealed subs.
It's not just "10Hz" that's recovered, and BEQ is not limited to ATMOS titles...
Hellboy II is just one of a small handful of titles where the DTS track was significantly better than the new DTS:X/ATMOS version.
There are just as many new 1080p blurays with DTS/Dolby tracks that are being nerfed by the studios too, it's not just ATMOS/DTS:X

Look at the BEQ movie list of over 740 titles, less than half of them are 4K/UHD/ATMOS/DTS:X
DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD tracks on regular 1080p Bluray's have just as much to gain from BEQ.

If your sub isn't capable of 10Hz, no worries, it has limiters/filters in place to protect it,
if it didn't you wouldn't be able to play TIH, WOTW, HTTYD or MMFR at reference levels either (even without BEQ)

Here's the BEQ for The Avengers DTS-HD MA 7.1
Would you rather have it cut off at 30Hz or extend down to 18Hz for your subs?


Here's the BEQ for the 4K/UHD/ATMOS version
Spoiler!


Of course having Good Subs with ultra low extension always helps, that's regardless of using BEQ or not,
Hellboy II had 10Hz content in 2002, as do many other Bass Monster audio tracks.

Also well worth mentioning....Buttkickers, Crowson MA's and BOSS systems respond extremely well into the low Single Digit frequencies.
They take up almost no extra space (High WAF) and get the job done for just a fraction of the cost of multiple ID 18" Sub's.

Everyone is certainly free to make their own decisions when it comes to BassEQ and ULF,
it's just a little frustrating to me when it's merits are often dismissed for the wrong reasons or misconceptions.

I'm about as computer savvy as a caveman, but still managed to struggle through with some excellent guidance from others.
Many like me that have followed along with my journey and had success as well now that we have a detailed manual and setup guide.

...sorry for the thread interruption @imureh

Anyone with further inquiries or specific movie requests should ask in the BEQ thread, We're more than happy to get anyone up and running,
Most of the hard work has already been done (including BEQ settings and freebie software downloads) by fellow members of the BEQ Crew.

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post #1629 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 09:24 PM
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BEQ is just making every movie when possible like the 5 star bass movies. Like Pio mentioned it is no different than playing TIH or WOTW.

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
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post #1630 of 1868 Old 05-24-2019, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
It's not just "10Hz" that's recovered, and BEQ is not limited to ATMOS titles...

Hellboy II is just one of a small handful of titles where the DTS track was significantly better than the new ATMOS version.

There are just as many new 1080p blurays with DTS/Dolby tracks that are being nerfed by the studios too, it's not just ATMOS.



Look at the BEQ movie list of over 740 titles, less than half of them are 4K/UHD/ATMOS

DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD tracks on regular 1080p Bluray's have just as much to gain from BEQ.



If your sub isn't capable of 10Hz, no worries, it has limiters/filters in place to protect it,

if it didn't you wouldn't be able to play TIH, WOTW, HTTYD or MMFR at reference levels either (even without BEQ)



Here's the BEQ for The Avengers DTS-HD MA 7.1

Would you rather have it cut off at 30Hz or extend down to 18Hz for your subs?





Here's the BEQ for the 4K/UHD/ATMOS version

Spoiler!




Of course having Good Subs with ultra low extension always helps, that's regardless of using BEQ or not,

Hellboy II had 10Hz content in 2002, as do many other Bass Monster audio tracks.



Also well worth mentioning....Buttkickers, Crowson MA's and BOSS systems respond extremely well into the low Single Digit frequencies.

They take up almost no extra space (High WAF) and get the job done for just a fraction of the cost of multiple ID 18" Sub's.



Everyone is certainly free to make their own decisions when it comes to BassEQ and ULF,

it's just a little frustrating to me when it's merits are often dismissed for the wrong reasons or misconceptions.



I'm about as computer savvy as a caveman, but still managed to struggle through with some excellent guidance from others.

Many like me that have followed along with my journey and had success as well now that we have a detailed manual and setup guide.



...sorry for the thread interruption @imureh



Anyone with further inquiries or specific movie requests should ask in the BEQ thread, We're more than happy to get anyone up and running,

Most of the hard work has already been done (including BEQ settings and freebie software downloads) by fellow members of the BEQ Crew.





No worries my friend. Great explanation. This is exactly what I was trying to say when making the statement that a lot more below 20hz content then the say 5% number that gets thrown out there.


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post #1631 of 1868 Old 05-25-2019, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
It's not just "10Hz" that's recovered, and BEQ is not limited to ATMOS titles...
Hellboy II is just one of a small handful of titles where the DTS track was significantly better than the new ATMOS version.
There are just as many new 1080p blurays with DTS/Dolby tracks that are being nerfed by the studios too, it's not just ATMOS.
I get it, BEQ is awesome, even if it is poorly named. I already EQ my bass. What we are talking about is specifically a restoration of cinema sound. Maybe Cinema Bass Restoration (CBR) or something to that effect.

Your edit did a better job of answering my question. Thanks. So there isn't a general rule as to which versions of discs have better bass. That is good to know.

What I was getting at is that sealed subs seem a much better fit for the EQ curves you are posting, as you don't want to apply huge boosts to an unloaded driver in a bass reflex design. Sealed subs are not in any danger; they just need a lot of power.

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post #1632 of 1868 Old 05-25-2019, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I get it, BEQ is awesome, even if it is poorly named. I already EQ my bass. What we are talking about is specifically a restoration of cinema sound. Maybe Cinema Bass Restoration (CBR) or something to that effect.

Your edit did a better job of answering my question. Thanks. So there isn't a general rule as to which versions of discs have better bass. That is good to know.

What I was getting at is that sealed subs seem a much better fit for the EQ curves you are posting, as you don't want to apply huge boosts to an unloaded driver in a bass reflex design. Sealed subs are not in any danger; they just need a lot of power.
BassEQ (BEQ) was the term first coined in the DataBass forum back in 2014,
They started it and there's no need to change that name now. It does exactly what the name implies.
Link: http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/2...movies-thread/

It's got nothing to do with a Cinematic audio track, ironically many commercial cinemas are limited to 25-30Hz, totally different mix.
The shear volume of space makes it very difficult to pressurize at lower frequencies without a massive collection of large drivers and a crap load of power.

Sorry, but I'm still not sure you totally understand,

The ONLY subs potentially at risk are DIY ported subs powered by external amps
without onboard filters in place to prevent over-excursion below their port tuning.
The DIY section is very good at informing users how to establish appropriate filters to prevent melting voice coils.

As already mentioned, ULF frequencies are simply raised to the same level as the 5 Star Bass movies that haven't been filturd!
They never EXCEED them, no clipping involved, headroom always in place and there's no risk to any ID Sub or store bought $300 Best Buy special.

So "if" you are capable of safely playing WOTW, TIH, HTTYD, MMFR on your Sub(s)
There isn't a Single BEQ Title that will play any louder or deeper than those titles.
If those movies sound better on your 15Hz-20Hz capable sub than any Disney title that's been neutered at ~30Hz,
Then BEQ would work for you.

Yes, typically sealed subs capable down to 10Hz and/or tactile transducers that even dig deeper will benefit even more.
(save maybe a large folded horn or IB system tuned low), But that's the same law of physics that applies to all movies regardless of BEQ or not.
So would I recommend BEQ for a 12" 300 watt 30Hz sub?....well probably not. Most BEQ's enhance Hz below the "Disney" ~30Hz limitation.
It won't melt the voice coil, blow a driver, grenade the cabinet, it just simple won't play anything at all below it's capabilities so there's nothing to be gained.

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post #1633 of 1868 Old 05-25-2019, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
BEQ is just making every movie when possible like the 5 star bass movies. Like Pio mentioned it is no different than playing TIH or WOTW.
This 100%

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post #1634 of 1868 Old 05-27-2019, 01:57 PM
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Who determines what the bass boost should be for each title? Bass is subjective.
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post #1635 of 1868 Old 05-27-2019, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Who determines what the bass boost should be for each title? Bass is subjective.


Strongly suggest you visit the BEQ thread and get your questions answered


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post #1636 of 1868 Old 05-27-2019, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Who determines what the bass boost should be for each title? Bass is subjective.
Measuring the actual frequency levels right off the disc is not subjective, it's science.
The software developed to create the BEQ corrections has safety parameters in place to make sure there is no clipping of the signal.

You will probably notice there is never any peak over the -15dB line on any post BEQ graphs

The only thing "subjective" is how high you set your AVR's Master Volume.
If you don't run over reference levels, you can't possibly have anything to worry about.

For the 3rd time, if you play other bass heavy movies without issue, you're 100% safe because a BEQ'd title will never exceed those levels.

Here's a recent example how BEQ could have saved someone from bottoming out their subs had they used BEQ instead of a Generic LS filter

Link: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58100288

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post #1637 of 1868 Old 05-27-2019, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Measuring the actual frequency levels right off the disc is not subjective, it's science.
The software used to create the BEQ corrections has safety parameters in place to make sure there is no clipping of the signal.
Thank you, that answers my question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
You will probably notice there is never any peak over the -15dB line on any post BEQ graphs

The only thing "subjective" is how high you set your AVR's Master Volume.
If you don't run over reference levels, you can't possibly have anything to worry about.

For the 3rd time, if you play other bass heavy movies without issue, you're 100% safe because a BEQ'd title will never exceed those levels.

Here's a recent example how BEQ could have saved someone from bottoming out their subs had they used BEQ instead of a Generic LS filter


Link: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58100288

That is not what I was asking about, but thanks.

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post #1638 of 1868 Old 05-27-2019, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post

That is not what I was asking about, but thanks.
Just making sure everyone understands this isn't someone randomly boosting levels sky high with complete disregard for everyone's equipment.
Many of the BEQ'd movies also include a Negative Peak filter to keep dangerous spikes within the "Safe" zone.

The HTTYD was a great example, thought I'd share because some reading this might care to know, even if you don't.


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post #1639 of 1868 Old 05-27-2019, 03:54 PM
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For those of you that haven't tried BEQ I can't recommend it enough. The way it works is you have all of the EQ's for movies that Aron has done a BEQ for (over 750 movies so far, and if you ever want something that isn't there you can ask him on the thread and it's usually done by the end of the day if not sooner) saved in a folder. Using the minidsp HD 2x4 just load up the movie and it automatically keeps your default house curve combined with the BEQ that Aron has done for the movie.

Once you have it all set up, it's as easy as "File + Load" from the minidsp.

Read the first page of the BEQ thread for instructions to set it up. It took me a while to get it figure out but I am not a smart man. Once you have it set up you can get a BEQ loaded faster than the menu loads on a disk.
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post #1640 of 1868 Old 05-28-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
automatically keeps your default house curve combined with the BEQ that Aron has done for the movie.
Knowing you like a pretty aggressive house curve, I assume you are using the other EQ pots in the mini software and what, you just save the last slot for the BEQ file? I'm confused on that part only I guess...

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post #1641 of 1868 Old 05-28-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Knowing you like a pretty aggressive house curve, I assume you are using the other EQ pots in the mini software and what, you just save the last slot for the BEQ file? I'm confused on that part only I guess...
I use a lot of curves, and you are right I do like a big boost down low. What happens with using the BEQ curves is that when you load up a BEQ for a specific movie it loads the BEQ curves to the inputs on the minidsp, but it saves the EQ curves you have set on the outputs.

Does that make sense?

If I ever want to change the default curve I just save the new curve in the folder that I have designated to merge with the BEQ curves and click on reload/save in the BEQ designer software. It's really nice. I can also reload the movie list any time I want since Aron is constantly doing more BEQ's for movies.

You should read through the instructions of the first page of the BEQ thread, I think you would really like the results.
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post #1642 of 1868 Old 05-28-2019, 11:25 AM
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In the beginning it was suggested everyone only use the miniDSP Input channels for loading BEQ settings,
That would leave the 4 Output channels free for your own personal sub EQ/Delays/Levels and House Curve.

When DesertDog created a github repository for ALL the BEQ titles (in miniDSP xml. file format)
It saved everyone from manually typing BEQ settings into the input channels one at a time.

You would clone the list from the repo to your own hard drive,
Go to Load: in the miniDSP software and just click a title off the list, BEQ xml file goes to the Input Channels, no more typing. Yeah!
...However, that system would also overwrite the Output Channels (default bypassed) So you would have to manually insert your HC (if you had one)

3ll3d00d then created a "merge" function in the BEQ-Designer app
(software he created for everyone to use that generates the BEQ settings, graphs and charts)

You would create a house curve using only the miniDSP output channels, just like before, nothing on the input side (bypassed)
Hit Save in the miniDSP software to export a House Curve_1 into xml file format, put it in a HC folder you create in a separate directory.

Load up the BEQ-D app,
Hit the refresh button to pull the latest BEQ movie updates from the repo,
if you don't have it yet, it will prompt if you to clone it.

Hit Ctrl-X (or select merge from the toolbar)

Select your config file (enter path to the HC you just created)
Select the output directory (where your movie BEQ files will be stored)
Hit save

The BEQ-D app then merges all 760+ BEQ's + your HC and overwrites your list in less than a minute.

Now to load any movie BEQ (with your HC), open the miniDSP software, click load button, navigate to your merged movie list,
One click on any Movie title puts the BEQ settings on the miniDSP Input channels and your HC on the Output channels at the same time.

If you want you can save several House Curve's in your HC folder.
It takes less than a minute to re-merge the entire list with a new curve/settings.

It may sound like a lot, but each step is well documented with screen shots in the setup guide,
and lots of help from others when someone gets stuck. Get it setup once, it's very easy to maintain.


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Last edited by PioManiac; 05-28-2019 at 11:49 AM.
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post #1643 of 1868 Old 05-28-2019, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I use a lot of curves, and you are right I do like a big boost down low. What happens with using the BEQ curves is that when you load up a BEQ for a specific movie it loads the BEQ curves to the inputs on the minidsp, but it saves the EQ curves you have set on the outputs.

Does that make sense?

If I ever want to change the default curve I just save the new curve in the folder that I have designated to merge with the BEQ curves and click on reload/save in the BEQ designer software. It's really nice. I can also reload the movie list any time I want since Aron is constantly doing more BEQ's for movies.

You should read through the instructions of the first page of the BEQ thread, I think you would really like the results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
In the beginning it was suggested everyone only use the miniDSP Input channels for loading BEQ settings,
That would leave the 4 Output channels free for your own personal sub EQ/Delays/Levels and House Curve....)
Well it only took a second to confirm that I absolutely can't do BEQ currently as my open drc-an doesn't have the availability to do filters on both sides. All eqing is done on the input side only, and if i wanted my own house curve along with BEQ, it's basically impossible. Looking at mini's website, it appears they don't even make the open drc-an anymore. That's a darn shame as it's been a fantastic unit for me for the most part. XLR ins and outs, more delay than standard mini and more output voltage than you'd ever need really. Wonder why they stopped making it?!?! I am guessing now I'll need to consider the HD but I sure will miss the balanced outs.
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post #1644 of 1868 Old 05-28-2019, 01:03 PM
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@beastaudio if you share a config file then I can take a look at how easy it is to support another format. It is not a hard thing to do though, just a q of time.
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post #1645 of 1868 Old 05-28-2019, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
@beastaudio if you share a config file then I can take a look at how easy it is to support another format. It is not a hard thing to do though, just a q of time.
It's still xml just like normal, the problem is in the available I/O dsp work which the plugin for this particular unit has none on the output side. Only one bank, and only 6 filters available at that anyways. I wouldn't want you to try and shoehorn anything in to a unit very few people (surprisingly) own and/or still actually use. It would be way more simple for me to just get the HD, especially since I have three different subs I'd like to use delay on separately and still currently only have two channels to accomplish that... I am already unnecessarily hindering myself. If I sell off my 4 DO 18 boxes and just go dual Skhorns with the nearfield sealed 18's then this won't be a problem...Just have some decisions to make. Thanks for the offer however

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post #1646 of 1868 Old 06-13-2019, 06:41 PM
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Imureh asked me to leave my impressions of my TV36 iPals that I posted in the PSA thread here as well. Here you go Ray:

My first impressions of the TV36 iPal:

First... these things are pretty big. But this was the easiest set up I'ver done. Everything went right which is really nice considering what I went through back in February. I plugged everything in and turned on the system and... music to my ears... there was no ground loop hum, everything was as silent as could be. I expected this would be the case because I've never had a ground loop hum with PSA subs and their ICE amps but after what I experienced with the Speakerpower amps in the other subs back in February I still held my breath for a minute.

My goal was to set up the subs the same way I had V3601 and the 2400ULF's set up. This way I could do some sort of comparison as best as I could. Let me qualify everything by saying I'm very familiar with the V3601's but I had very limited time with the 2400ULFs so my memory of what they were like is not all that great. Some things stand out but it's limited I'm sure. I placed the TV36's exactly where I had my past subs, ran Audyssey with the room correction in the middle and then set them to large afterwards. Finally I set the trims 6dB hot. So far that's all I've done. Nothing fancy, I have not run REW so I have no idea what the current response looks like but I know what the response was like with other subs in those locations in the past so I have a good idea.

MOVIES
I jumped right to movie demos first and circled back to music later. I played the well known bass scenes from War of the Worlds, Oblivion, BR 2049, Ender's Game, WWZ, John Wick, 13 Hours, The Force Awakens (I may be forgetting a few). So what do I think... Simply put I feel like I'm hearing bass differently than I've ever heard it before... and loving it!

These subs are tight and clean and clear and powerful and pressurize the room with an intensity different than I've ever heard before. While TV36 pressurizes the room with ULF in a similar manner to the 2400ULF it does so with a different sound signature. They both fill the room with all encompassing bass but their presence is not the same. I remember describing the 2400ULF's presence as ominous, which I really liked. Well the TV36 is not omnious but it is intense and powerful. I was flailing for words to describe it... then my oldest daughter said something that I think describes it really well, she described the bass as being like chocolate. "I said chocolate?" And she said, "Yes... it's rich and smooth." And that really is a good way of describing it. My youngest daughter described the pressure of the ULF as like being underwater with the bass flowing through you. Both of those are accurate.

But there is a lot more to these subs than low tuning and ULF capability. The mid-bass on these subs is something else all together. They seem to have more mid-bass than the V3601's and it's different. With a little extra nudge on the volume I started feeling light chest slam (no subs have ever given me that in my room before). And the tactile response from these subs is far beyond any sub I've ever had. My daughter looked at me and said: Dad! I can feel my chair shaking!" And I had to remind people at times that I didn't have the Crowsons on because the couch shook pretty good in some scenes.

MUSIC
Before I even played any music I already knew from the movie soundtracks that it was going to be very good. And it was. I played my normal Jazz and Rock and since I'm tired of writing I will simply say that these subs made music sound the best I've ever heard.

So all in all I'll just simply say (to me) the TV36 creates an atmosphere that encompasses you in a deep rich smooth intense bass that I found totally addicting... I couldn't stop playing demo scenes. I'll add this, the bass is so clean you get lost in it and I noticed bass I've never noticed before in some scenes. I don't know how else to describe it. And think about this, everyone in my family likes these subs and everyone in my family noticed the difference from all my past subs. Think about it... I live in a house with a wife and three daughters. Women don't tend to pick up on this type of stuff but they did with these.

Was it worth the wait? Every minute of it!

Update: At this point I've now had the chance to watch a few bass movies like Tron and Ready Player One (among others) from start to finish and I have to say that I'm absolutely thrilled with these subs. I'm loving every minute of every movie.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #1647 of 1868 Old 06-13-2019, 06:55 PM
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^^^
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I cannot find the dimension of this monster
By any chance, do you have them handy to post?


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post #1648 of 1868 Old 06-13-2019, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Imureh asked me to leave my impressions of my TV36 iPals that I posted in the PSA thread here as well. Here you go Ray:



My first impressions of the TV36 iPal:



First... these things are pretty big. But this was the easiest set up I'ver done. Everything went right which is really nice considering what I went through back in February. I plugged everything in and turned on the system and... music to my ears... there was no ground loop hum, everything was as silent as could be. I expected this would be the case because I've never had a ground loop hum with PSA subs and their ICE amps but after what I experienced with the Speakerpower amps in the other subs back in February I still held my breath for a minute.



My goal was to set up the subs the same way I had V3601 and the 2400ULF's set up. This way I could do some sort of comparison as best as I could. Let me qualify everything by saying I'm very familiar with the V3601's but I had very limited time with the 2400ULFs so my memory of what they were like is not all that great. Some things stand out but it's limited I'm sure. I placed the TV36's exactly where I had my past subs, ran Audyssey with the room correction in the middle and then set them to large afterwards. Finally I set the trims 6dB hot. So far that's all I've done. Nothing fancy, I have not run REW so I have no idea what the current response looks like but I know what the response was like with other subs in those locations in the past so I have a good idea.



MOVIES

I jumped right to movie demos first and circled back to music later. I played the well known bass scenes from War of the Worlds, Oblivion, BR 2049, Ender's Game, WWZ, John Wick, 13 Hours, The Force Awakens (I may be forgetting a few). So what do I think... Simply put I feel like I'm hearing bass differently than I've ever heard it before... and loving it!



These subs are tight and clean and clear and powerful and pressurize the room with an intensity different than I've ever heard before. While TV36 pressurizes the room with ULF in a similar manner to the 2400ULF it does so with a different sound signature. They both fill the room with all encompassing bass but their presence is not the same. I remember describing the 2400ULF's presence as ominous, which I really liked. Well the TV36 is not omnious but it is intense and powerful. I was flailing for words to describe it... then my oldest daughter said something that I think describes it really well, she described the bass as being like chocolate. "I said chocolate?" And she said, "Yes... it's rich and smooth." And that really is a good way of describing it. My youngest daughter described the pressure of the ULF as like being underwater with the bass flowing through you. Both of those are accurate.



But there is a lot more to these subs than low tuning and ULF capability. The mid-bass on these subs is something else all together. They seem to have more mid-bass than the V3601's and it's different. With a little extra nudge on the volume I started feeling light chest slam (no subs have ever given me that in my room before). And the tactile response from these subs is far beyond any sub I've ever had. My daughter looked at me and said: Dad! I can feel my chair shaking!" And I had to remind people at times that I didn't have the Crowsons on because the couch shook pretty good in some scenes.



MUSIC

Before I even played any music I already knew from the movie soundtracks that it was going to be very good. And it was. I played my normal Jazz and Rock and since I'm tired of writing I will simply say that these subs made music sound the best I've ever heard.



So all in all I'll just simply say (to me) the TV36 creates an atmosphere that encompasses you in a deep rich smooth intense bass that I found totally addicting... I couldn't stop playing demo scenes. I'll add this, the bass is so clean you get lost in it and I noticed bass I've never noticed before in some scenes. I don't know how else to describe it. And think about this, everyone in my family likes these subs and everyone in my family noticed the difference from all my past subs. Think about it... I live in a house with a wife and three daughters. Women don't tend to pick up on this type of stuff but they did with these.



Was it worth the wait? Every minute of it!



Update: At this point I've now had the chance to watch a few bass movies like Tron and Ready Player One (among others) from start to finish and I have to say that I'm absolutely thrilled with these subs. I'm loving every minute of every movie.


How is the experience with a down firing port versus a front firing or front slot? What can you tell are the differences and what do you like? I know it’s probably masked by the much more expensive driver quality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #1649 of 1868 Old 06-13-2019, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
^^^
@Hopinater
I cannot find the dimension of this monster
By any chance, do you have them handy to post?


Darth



Here's Tom's early posted info on them


Quote:
* The amplifier is our 1920w platform. I can make the argument it is putting out more power but I'm really not worried about trying to market these. At the moment interest is way beyond anything I could have hoped for anyway.

* The cabinet is the same for all three options. Two front firing 18s, single down firing 6 inch flared port, full face grill.

20x26x48( WxDxH ).

Tune is 13.5hz +/- 0.5hz.

FR is (+/-3) 15hz-150hz anechoic. 7-10hz pressurization in all but the largest rooms.

Cea-2010 will be finalized as weather/time allows. I will say along with the dramatic increase in 10-20hz performance we haven't sacrificed much mid and upper bass impact. There's *some* trade off of course, that is just physics. But even if you put the base version next to a V3611 you would be hard pressed to notice this. This is due to the fact that the V3611 was such a mid/upper bass entity that even if you lose a couple/few dB there it's hard to find source material and listening levels where it's jumps out at you.

The woofer options are as follows--- There are three.

TV36 = standard 18 inch woofers we've been using with outstanding results for quite a while now. Full details on available on any current 18 inch based product page on the website.

$2199 pre-order. $2599 is the estimated regular pricing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

TV36neo = A high end Neo woofer from Italy(B&C). Exceptional distortion control, exceptionally strong motor, build quality and power handling/thermal limits are far beyond anything we've offered to date.

$2599 pre-order. $2999 is the estimated regular pricing.
https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/produc...-0/4/18ds115-4

This one sound a bit different than the base version. Better overall. Similar <25hz to the base version but this driver is such a beast in efficiency it goes toe-toe with the V3611 in 40-100hz without breaking a sweat. So my one line description would be.

~ The TV36neo give you all of the violent mid and upper bass of the V3611 while pressurizing the room down to 10hz and below.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TV36ipal + Ipal 18" woofer. Arguably the highest quality 18 inch woofer available anywhere, at any price.

$2999 pre-order. $3599 is the estimated regular pricing.

https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/produc.../18-0/2/18ipal

The cleanest, most linear, strongest motor woofer I have ever used/measured...and there's been nothing even remotely close. The sound quality reflects this as well. I'm not going to wax poetically, that's always been difficult. But our proprietary ICE design match with IPAL technology is truly something special.


Let the games begin. (fyi, #1 thru #7 are already in the books)


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon X4000 Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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post #1650 of 1868 Old 06-13-2019, 08:54 PM
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Congrats Hop. Look like you have scored your dream subs.
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