Subwoofer comparisons and impressions - Page 56 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2365Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1651 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 05:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,535
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3330 Post(s)
Liked: 10009
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
How is the experience with a down firing port versus a front firing or front slot? What can you tell are the differences and what do you like? I know it’s probably masked by the much more expensive driver quality.
I thought I might notice a little less TR with the down firing port but it's just the opposite. These subs have more TR than any sub I've ever had. I was playing around with this last night by turning my Crowsosn on and off with certain scenes to see what the natural TR was like. For some background (as many know) I sit on a concrete pad in the basement with my subs sitting about 12 and 14 feet away from the MLP so they aren't that close to me... the V3601 had some TR, the 2400ULF had a bit more. But the TV36 iPal has more than either of those. With these subs I'm able to turn off the Crowsons and the couch will shake like I still have them on (but turned down a notch). Now that doesn't happen with every scene so I'm not getting rid of my Crowsons but it happens with a lot of scenes. So the TR on these subs is incredible, more than anything I've experienced before. So to answer your question, no I notice no difference with the down firing port... unless it's adding extra TR somehow.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

Last edited by Hopinater; 06-14-2019 at 06:04 AM.
Hopinater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1652 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,289
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked: 3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I thought I might notice a little less TR with the down firing port but it's just the opposite. These subs have more TR than any sub I've ever had. I was playing around with this last night by turning my Crowsosn on and off with certain scenes to see what the natural TR was like. For some background (as many know) I sit on a concrete pad in the basement with my subs sitting about 12 and 14 feet away from the MLP so they aren't that close to me... the V3601 had some TR, the 2400ULF had a bit more. But the TV36 iPal has more than either of those. With these subs I'm able to turn off the Crowsons and the couch will shake like I still have them on (but turned down a notch). Now that doesn't happen with every scene so I'm not getting rid of my Crowsons but it happens with a lot of scenes. So the TR on these subs is incredible, more than anything I've experienced before. So to answer your question, no I notice no difference with the down firing port... unless it's adding extra TR somehow.


Wow. To have more TR than a Cap 2400 is not a small feat. Having experienced the Caps at @toddct , it is quite incredible. I mean that is what JTR are known for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #1653 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 07:27 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,375
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked: 2315
Hop, you had both 2400s working properly enough to get a nice feel for them?

Audio Design Associates/Outlaw
Speakerpower SP1-4000
subs-Re audio XXX 18 IB(LT).
DIY speakers-mktheater-S10/S12s
MKtheater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1654 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 01:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,535
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3330 Post(s)
Liked: 10009
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Hop, you had both 2400s working properly enough to get a nice feel for them?
That's truly a valid question. I had them working together a day less than I've had the TV36's working. But that's why I qualified in my write up that my memory of the 2400ULF may not be that great. But somethings do stick out to me from the short time I had both 2400ULF's working... TR being one and the powerful ominous sound signature being the other. I can tell you I did all my demo scenes with the 2400ULF with the Crowsons off then I did some with them on. The 2400ULF definitely shook my couch and had great TR but it seems to me the TV36 iPal has a bit more. At least that's how things stand out to me when I play the TV36's. Could I be wrong? Maybe.

I will share that my youngest daughter looked at me all wide eyed with pure excitement when we were watching TRON and said "Dad! My chair is shaking and the blanket moved, the blanket actually moved!" And the chair she was in is at least five feet farther away from the subs than the MLP. To me that says something about the TR of the subs. Bottom line is these subs have significant TR as do the 2400ULF.

Sorry guys, that's the best I can do.
Mike Butny, Dave Ol and Nalleh like this.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #1655 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,289
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked: 3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
That's truly a valid question. I had them working together a day less than I've had the TV36's working. But that's why I qualified in my write up that my memory of the 2400ULF may not be that great. But somethings do stick out to me from the short time I had both 2400ULF's working... TR being one and the powerful ominous sound signature being the other. I can tell you I did all my demo scenes with the 2400ULF with the Crowsons off then I did some with them on. The 2400ULF definitely shook my couch and had great TR but it seems to me the TV36 iPal has a bit more. At least that's how things stand out to me when I play the TV36's. Could I be wrong? Maybe.



I will share that my youngest daughter looked at me all wide eyed with pure excitement when we were watching TRON and said "Dad! My chair is shaking and the blanket moved, the blanket actually moved!" And the chair she was in is at least five feet farther away from the subs than the MLP. To me that says something about the TR of the subs. Bottom line is these subs have significant TR as do the 2400ULF.



Sorry guys, that's the best I can do.


Hop. That is cool and I think a lot of us would like to eventually understand what makes the TV36 have more TR than the JTR since TR is a factor of driver excursion and I don’t think the ipals have as much excursion as the JTR 2400 driver so it would be cool to understand what gives. Very interesting subject indeed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BufordTJustice likes this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #1656 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 02:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tbass2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,294
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Hop. That is cool and I think a lot of us would like to eventually understand what makes the TV36 have more TR than the JTR since TR is a factor of driver excursion and I don’t think the ipals have as much excursion as the JTR 2400 driver so it would be cool to understand what gives. Very interesting subject indeed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe the port orientation?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
tbass2k is online now  
post #1657 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 02:03 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,375
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked: 2315
No problem, just curious. I never heard JTR subs except dual Captivator 1000s a while ago. I have no problem with what you said, when my wife and kids finally comment I know something has changed considerably.
MKtheater is offline  
post #1658 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 02:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,375
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked: 2315
They might have closer excursion than you think. They rate their xmax differently so it would be closer than one thinks. The dual opposed 21 inch Ipal seems to have 3 dB more excursion than The JTR S2 at 10hz. So the 18 might have 1 dB less, just a hunch.
BufordTJustice likes this.
MKtheater is offline  
post #1659 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 02:19 PM
Member
 
Dave Ol's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Hop. That is cool and I think a lot of us would like to eventually understand what makes the TV36 have more TR than the JTR since TR is a factor of driver excursion and I don’t think the ipals have as much excursion as the JTR 2400 driver so it would be cool to understand what gives. Very interesting subject indeed.

I read in another thread that you end up with more total excursion with the TV36 due to the fact you have two ipal drivers in the TV36 vs one driver in a JTR 2400. However, comparing one driver to another, a single JTR does have more excursion than a single ipal. Don't know if this is linear and accurate but is food for thought.
Dave Ol is offline  
post #1660 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 02:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gorilla Killa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee Mtns
Posts: 2,695
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1326 Post(s)
Liked: 1832
The MMS on the Ipal is lower than the JTR but not a dramatic difference. The motor on the Ipal is approaching double, I think this has a significant impact on TR, especially above 20 hz
Gorilla Killa is online now  
post #1661 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 02:26 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,375
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked: 2315
The 21 inch dual IPAL had 3 dB more output than the JTR S2. So the 18 inch IPAL will lose 4-5 dB based on total displacement and less xmax than the 21.
BufordTJustice likes this.
MKtheater is offline  
post #1662 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,289
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked: 3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
The MMS on the Ipal is lower than the JTR but not a dramatic difference. The motor on the Ipal is approaching double, I think this has a significant impact on TR, especially above 20 hz

This is the type of stuff would be good to understand. Seems like that is why the ipals are priced as they are. It would be great to hear from @Ricci and @Mark Seaton and @Rythmik






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
darthray and BufordTJustice like this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #1663 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,289
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked: 3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
I read in another thread that you end up with more total excursion with the TV36 due to the fact you have two ipal drivers in the TV36 vs one driver in a JTR 2400. However, comparing one driver to another, a single JTR does have more excursion than a single ipal. Don't know if this is linear and accurate but is food for thought.


Yeah. I had thought that too but was not sure if TR was a simple addition.
@Hop inator, how about some VibSensor readings?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #1664 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 03:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,446
Mentioned: 290 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3403 Post(s)
Liked: 4161
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
The 21 inch dual IPAL had 3 dB more output than the JTR S2. So the 18 inch IPAL will lose 4-5 dB based on total displacement and less xmax than the 21.
Don't forget the 21 inch dual IPAL has 6000W vs 4000W for the JTR S2.

But it's hard to really compare them like this because the 21 inch dual IPAL was in a smaller cabinet and has no DSP applied while the S2 was a turnkey product...
BufordTJustice likes this.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 06-14-2019 at 04:43 PM.
chucky7 is online now  
post #1665 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,289
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked: 3205
Subwoofer comparisons and impressions

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Don't forget the 21 inch dual IPAL has 6000W vs 4000W for the JTR S2.


I am still trying to wrap my head around the factors that would make the TV36 have more TR. I know it has dual 18 inch drivers versus one but has less amp power and lower excursion drivers. I guess as others have said may be the difference between the JTR driver excursion and the ipal is not as much as I am thinking it is? My assumption was based on the fact that PA style drivers have lower excursion typically as evidenced in jtr’s own line with the 118 HT. That comb driver on the 118 is quite similar to the PA style drivers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD

Last edited by imureh; 06-14-2019 at 04:02 PM.
imureh is online now  
post #1666 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 05:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,034
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1779 Post(s)
Liked: 1762
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
...........but has less amp power ..............

The IPALs are exponentially more efficient than the JTR drivers so they don't need as much power. Not to mention, the difference between 2000 and 2400 watts will be nearly undetectable.

Also, IIRC, the ICE modules have more burst potential and the Torpedo amps have more sustained output.

These things combined with the very strong motors in the IPALs definitely create lots of variables.
Mike Butny and darthray like this.
zeus33 is offline  
post #1667 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 05:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,535
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3330 Post(s)
Liked: 10009
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Yeah. I had thought that too but was not sure if TR was a simple addition.
@Hop inator, how about some VibSensor readings?
LOL... This may not be the answer some of you are looking for but I've never done VibSensor and I really don't care enough to do it, I'm too busy enjoying these subs. In truth all I care about is how happy I am right now. IMO they are hands down the best sounding subs I've ever heard, that may not be true for everyone but it's true for me. And if in actuality the JTR 2400ULF proves to have more TR and I'm just not remembering it accurately that's fine with me. The 2400ULF is a very good sub and I'm not trying to take anything away from it and anyone who owns one should be happy knowing they have a great sub. I'm just saying to me (and my family)... in my room... this TV36 iPal is something very special and has incredible TR.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #1668 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 05:44 PM
Member
 
Dave Ol's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
LOL... This may not be the answer some of you are looking for but I've never done VibSensor and I really don't care enough to do it, I'm too busy enjoying these subs. In truth all I care about is how happy I am right now. IMO they are hands down the best sounding subs I've ever heard, that may not be true for everyone but it's true for me. And if in actuality the JTR 2400ULF proves to have more TR and I'm just not remembering it accurately that's fine with me. The 2400ULF is a very good sub and I'm not trying to take anything away from it and anyone who owns one should be happy knowing they have a great sub. I'm just saying to me (and my family)... in my room... this TV36 iPal is something very special and has incredible TR.

I think a road trip to Hop's house is in order.
JimWilson likes this.
Dave Ol is offline  
post #1669 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 05:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,152
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2493 Post(s)
Liked: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I am still trying to wrap my head around the factors that would make the TV36 have more TR. I know it has dual 18 inch drivers versus one but has less amp power and lower excursion drivers. I guess as others have said may be the difference between the JTR driver excursion and the ipal is not as much as I am thinking it is? My assumption was based on the fact that PA style drivers have lower excursion typically as evidenced in jtr’s own line with the 118 HT. That comb driver on the 118 is quite similar to the PA style drivers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
First, the TV36 subwoofer has more excursion than the Cap2400 subwoofer. Manufacturer rated xmax of the TV36 Ipal is 40mm...and this is probably on the conservative side. Each Ipal in the dual driver TV36 has 20 mm. Don't forget we have two drivers in each cab.

Also, the JTR does not have more power. Yes, its a 2400 watt amp, but that amp design does not have high burst output compared to some. The ICE amp, although rated at 1900ish watts RMS, can burst close to 4k....a lot more than the JTR speakerpower amp.

Also, the efficiency of the Ipal drivers is very high, so they will produce much higher SPL with the same amount of applied power. Now factor in that you have perhaps 50% more power on tap as far as burst i.e. real world power usage.

I knew this design was going to be a bit of a game changer in the ID sub market. The high excursion pro audio drivers are awesome even though giving up some Xmax to the low efficiency excursion monsters. They also have incredibly low distortion....world class low distortion even compared to servo designs..simply because the drivers are that much better.
bear123 is online now  
post #1670 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,289
Mentioned: 198 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked: 3205
Subwoofer comparisons and impressions

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
First, the TV36 subwoofer has more excursion than the Cap2400 subwoofer. Manufacturer rated xmax of the TV36 Ipal is 40mm...and this is probably on the conservative side. Each Ipal in the dual driver TV36 has 20 mm. Don't forget we have two drivers in each cab.



Also, the JTR does not have more power. Yes, its a 2400 watt amp, but that amp design does not have high burst output compared to some. The ICE amp, although rated at 1900ish watts RMS, can burst close to 4k....a lot more than the JTR speakerpower amp.



Also, the efficiency of the Ipal drivers is very high, so they will produce much higher SPL with the same amount of applied power. Now factor in that you have perhaps 50% more power on tap as far as burst i.e. real world power usage.



I knew this design was going to be a bit of a game changer in the ID sub market. The high excursion pro audio drivers are awesome even though giving up some Xmax to the low efficiency excursion monsters. They also have incredibly low distortion....world class low distortion even compared to servo designs..simply because the drivers are that much better.


Thanks bear. I will need to listen to them

Are you ordering them? I would love to get one if Tom sells them to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BufordTJustice likes this.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD

Last edited by imureh; 06-14-2019 at 06:11 PM.
imureh is online now  
post #1671 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 06:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,275
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2093 Post(s)
Liked: 2975
Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Wow. To have more TR than a Cap 2400 is not a small feat. Having experienced the Caps at @toddct, it is quite incredible. I mean that is what JTR are known for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I thought I might notice a little less TR with the down firing port but it's just the opposite. These subs have more TR than any sub I've ever had. I was playing around with this last night by turning my Crowsosn on and off with certain scenes to see what the natural TR was like. For some background (as many know) I sit on a concrete pad in the basement with my subs sitting about 12 and 14 feet away from the MLP so they aren't that close to me... the V3601 had some TR, the 2400ULF had a bit more. But the TV36 iPal has more than either of those. With these subs I'm able to turn off the Crowsons and the couch will shake like I still have them on (but turned down a notch). Now that doesn't happen with every scene so I'm not getting rid of my Crowsons but it happens with a lot of scenes. So the TR on these subs is incredible, more than anything I've experienced before. So to answer your question, no I notice no difference with the down firing port... unless it's adding extra TR somehow.
Here's what Tom @Tom Vodhanel said in the PSA thread;
"Down firing has three undeniable advantages.

1) straight always has more effective laminar flow than a bend. So , at least in this instance, we maintain most efficient flow versus front firing ports with a sharp 90 degree bend.

2) down firing means spurious noise from the port can be partially absorbed by the carpet.

3) the air cavity between the port and the floor can be used to "load" the system. Meaning the effective port length is increased slightly.

None of these are game changers worthy of youtube marketing blurbs. But, if you're starting from scratch like I did with these subs...why not leverage everything available to ensure optimal sound quality.."

btw- i think we all need more details on your profile avatar?

Tom V.
Team Power.


I copy and paste, since I do not know how to quote into a different thread.




Darth
BufordTJustice likes this.

Last edited by darthray; 06-14-2019 at 06:11 PM.
darthray is offline  
post #1672 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 06:21 PM
Writer & Reviewer
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 8,116
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2155 Post(s)
Liked: 3234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
I think a road trip to Hop's house is in order.
Count me in. The TV36 is too large for my environment but a single driver version of it would be very intriguing. B&C's reputation is above reproach, I'm more than a little interested to hear what an IPAL can do in real life. I may have to give Tom a call...
BufordTJustice likes this.

 
If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite...
JimWilson is offline  
post #1673 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 06:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,275
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2093 Post(s)
Liked: 2975
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Maybe the port orientation?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Sorry, forgot to include your post. In my previous post # 1671.


Darth
tbass2k likes this.
darthray is offline  
post #1674 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 06:32 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,375
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked: 2315
IME burst power don’t last long enough to matter, we are talking milliseconds here. I have owned the clones with max burst and speakerpower and sustained power is where I need it. The one factor which is very important here which was already mentioned is that the efficiency is higher so that extra power is not needed.

Chucky, the 6000 watts vs 4000 watts is what it takes for each sub, the JTR S2 is maximized with 4000 watts, and the dual Ipal need that 6000 watts in a small box. The strong motors are great for smaller boxes. So just because one has more watts does not mean that is the difference, it means the subs are optimized to reach xmax at certain frequencies and play as loud as intended by the designer.

My problem with pro audio drivers is that they have so much midbass on tap it really drowns out the ULF although it is there. I like my ULF higher than my midbass to get that extra weight and feel and with pro audio drivers it is the opposite. Of course the 20-100hz range is fantastic with them, no question. I cross at 50-80hz because I use pro audio dual 12s in my speakers and they handle midbass great, I don’t need more from the subs, I need the weight. The IPAL does have lots of excursion down low and can be crossed over lower the same if preferred, but man why waste all that mid bass spl. The Ipal drivers do look great and I do like the way they model. There are cheaper drivers that get more low end though but at the expense of less than 130 dB midbass.
chucky7 and imureh like this.

Last edited by MKtheater; 06-14-2019 at 08:10 PM.
MKtheater is offline  
post #1675 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 07:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darrellh44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Dallas
Posts: 1,533
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1033 Post(s)
Liked: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
LOL... This may not be the answer some of you are looking for but I've never done VibSensor and I really don't care enough to do it, I'm too busy enjoying these subs. In truth all I care about is how happy I am right now. IMO they are hands down the best sounding subs I've ever heard, that may not be true for everyone but it's true for me. And if in actuality the JTR 2400ULF proves to have more TR and I'm just not remembering it accurately that's fine with me. The 2400ULF is a very good sub and I'm not trying to take anything away from it and anyone who owns one should be happy knowing they have a great sub. I'm just saying to me (and my family)... in my room... this TV36 iPal is something very special and has incredible TR.
Hi Hop,

Other than the 2400ULF, what are some of the other premium subs you've heard in the past that you're comparing the TV36 iPALs to. In particular I was wondering if you've heard any of the Mariana subs.

Thanks,
Darrell

darrellh44's Home Theater
Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

"Faith is not about everything turning out OK, Faith is being OK no matter how things turn out".
darrellh44 is offline  
post #1676 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 08:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,207
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2540 Post(s)
Liked: 2186
^^ Speaking of the Mariana, have you got your pair yet?
tvuong is online now  
post #1677 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 08:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,692
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3320 Post(s)
Liked: 1873
quality/design of subs are so important. I have 1000 dollar 12 inch car subs that have destroyed 18 inch subs in spl comps...ofc also givig them 3000 watts at 1.5 ohms. when talking about subs, I have no issues when the more expensive subs outperform...ofc I also believe lesser costing subs can come close enough in output. I dont care about +/- 3 db at whatever freq....but if a sub came out with +6 or more db dif I am listening.
BufordTJustice likes this.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
torii is online now  
post #1678 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 08:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,207
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2540 Post(s)
Liked: 2186
I am sure @Marc Alexander will give us some unbiased review with measurements when he gets to test the ipal TV36. I really like to see the claimed 7hz in room extension. Before someone says something, I do not say that Hop’s review is biased. He just likes what he likes and I am happy for him. At the end, that is all matter.
BufordTJustice likes this.
tvuong is online now  
post #1679 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 08:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,207
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2540 Post(s)
Liked: 2186
Regarding the TR Hop mentions, it is probably the combination of chest slam TR from pro-audio drivers with some TR feel down low and not as much of the heavy weight TR feel from lower tuned sub. I have a couple of the PA driver style MBMs that I can relate them to with the chest punch TR they create. The easiest way to find out how strong the TR is and at what frequency is to run VibSensor measurement which is super easy to do with a phone app.
tvuong is online now  
post #1680 of 1774 Old 06-14-2019, 08:54 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 18,375
Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked: 2315
The sub is tuned to 13.5hz? In my room(still rebuilding it) it would reach 5-6 hz.

There is no reason not to believe Hop just based on specs of the drivers and how similar drivers were tested on DB. Now remember DB numbers are max, outside. Inside you are hardly going to use max with even higher numbers, less distortion, etc.. think about it this way, the excursion is close to the JTR drivers, very close. That is for ULF, now above 20hz the Ipal drivers would be much more powerful, maybe taking two JTR drivers for the same output. Now you will never probably reach the limits from 20-100hz but that means what Hop probably heard, super clean bass with no audible distortion added to having ULF. It does sound like pro audio finally added some ULF, which is why they cost so much.
MKtheater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off