Dual 2400ULF's vs (3) XTZ 3x12's vs (3) FV18's - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 127 Old 10-30-2018, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
I don't want to put words into @tvuong mouth but I think he was equally impressed with the 2400 playing music as movies. I still owe @tvuong a relisten when he is in town as I had a defective amp when he was here.

Todd
Yes Todd, I mentioned in the jtr thread that your 2400ulf’s are sweet/impressive with movie and music. Enrico of Rythmik felt the same way. I still want to come to your place to give them a listen again as well as comparing it to the FV25hp.
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post #92 of 127 Old 10-30-2018, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I don’t want to derail this thread by making a JTR vs Rythmik thread.
Neither do I.

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I didn’t run compression sweeps on any of the subs till the max including the JTR as I did not technically own any of them at that point. I will do so when Enrico is here to help me dial them in to the dot.
That's not what you told me. You said Marc cautioned you not to run compression sweeps on all the subs that you were comparing at the time. Marc said you could do so definitely on the JTR because it can take a lot of beating, maybe on the PSA...

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I am not here defending any brand. I am telling the facts.
So am I.

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In a closed space the FV18 would be my choice with the added benefit of saving a whole lot of money.
Geo is looking at 3 FV18s vs 2 2400ULFs. The difference is $500, which is a small price to pay to own end game subs. If Geo goes for the 2400, then there is no cost difference.

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You are also now cooking up numbers.
I was not cooking up numbers. I was getting off soon so I didn't have time to look at the CEA-2010 numbers in detail. I believe Mike has also commented on the CEA-2010 numbers.

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I am telling what we all heard in an open room running the same content.
Same here... but the FV18 with Alum driver on concrete floor. There is a reason that JTR subs has been the top 2 for movies and music in almost all GTGs.

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post #93 of 127 Old 10-30-2018, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Ice cream flavors guys, everyone has their own preference
It's all good.

We have done this before, but it was PSA vs JTR...

After the dust has settled, we still PM each other discussing what's going on in the world of ID subs.

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post #94 of 127 Old 10-30-2018, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by toddct View Post
Purely guessing at this point which is why I tagged the others to chime in. My thought is that the more subs you have means less work for the drive, more headroom if you will. If each driver has less work.....maybe less TR? Again, really just asking a question for others with more experience.

I've come to realize that I really enjoy good low base response and low TR. The 2400-10ulf gives me that in spades along with being punchy, articulate and fairly precise. The 2400, I believe, still has pretty low distortion but not as low as the fv18 or the fv25 but for my preference and room.....it's like the goldilocks zone. Mix in a little controlled violence and chaos and you've got the 2400.

For me, I got lucky in choosing the best sub for my preference and my room for movies and giving up very little if anything in the music arena.

Todd
Hear! hear! bro!

I have heard the Rythmik and the PSA in multiple sessions, and compared the JTR Cap 1400 and the Monoprice Monolith 15" extensively. I noticed that Rythmik and Monoprice both are lower in THD (especially 2nd order THD for the Rythmik) and TR, while JTR and PSA both have the warmer sound and much more TR. Therefore, I believe the TR and the THD, especially 2nd order THD, are correlated. It's the appropriate amount of THD that provides the fuller sound and TR. Controlled chaos is exactly it! I also like the amount of range (18dB) of the current JTR LF Adjust.
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post #95 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It's all good.



We have done this before, but it was PSA vs JTR...



After the dust has settled, we still PM each other discussing what's going on in the world of ID subs.


Lol. I think you missing the point I am making bud. I am saying that the JTR is the right sub for an open room. I am not sure where the disagreement is. Both Todd and I reached the same conclusion. I would take the 3 subs over two but that’s me. You should hear the paper cone rev2 man, it’s really good. I also said the JTR has the edge and it should since it’s over $1000 more. Not sure why you think it was PSA and now rythmik. I am not forcing my selection on others. I am sharing what we all heard in the GTG and in my room and we seem to be the only ones who have heard subs in question directly so please lend us some credibility without blinders.


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post #96 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Neither do I.





That's not what you told me. You said Marc cautioned you not to run compression sweeps on all the subs that you were comparing at the time. Marc said you could do so definitely on the JTR because it can take a lot of beating, maybe on the PSA...





So am I.





Geo is looking at 3 FV18s vs 2 2400ULFs. The difference is $500, which is a small price to pay to own end game subs. If Geo goes for the 2400, then there is no cost difference.





I was not cooking up numbers. I was getting off soon so I didn't have time to look at the CEA-2010 numbers in detail. I believe Mike has also commented on the CEA-2010 numbers.





Same here... but the FV18 with Alum driver on concrete floor. There is a reason that JTR subs has been the top 2 for movies and music in almost all GTGs.


Only partly correct. He told not to push the PSA too hard. I decided not to run it on any.


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post #97 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post

There is a reason that JTR subs has been the top 2 for movies and music in almost all GTGs.
I do not disagree but those are GTGs from years ago that did not have any of these fairly new sub offers: the 2400ULF and FV18 that is. So what you stated, which I agree, is not meaningful to this discussion.
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post #98 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I do not disagree but those are GTGs from years ago that did not have any of these fairly new sub offers: the 2400ULF and FV18 that is. So what you stated, which I agree, is not meaningful to this discussion.
Don't forget the one at Marc's open family room on concrete in 2017, in which the JTR Cap 1400 was just unrivaled. The Cap 118HT was much more impressive than the Rythmik FV18 alum cone, because the latter was DNP-injured. I was able to hear the Rythmik FV18 a few times later.

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post #99 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 09:14 AM
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^^ Again, not meaningful to the subs discussed here. Let move on Bro, I think most folks here get the point I am trying to convey.

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post #100 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 12:02 PM
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Brace yourselves, this is going to be a long post!

The bad news is that I have been at home with a cold for the last few days. The worse news is that I have had more time to spend on AVS. I have enjoyed the discussions on this thread, and have been coming closer to having some insight into why both Ray and Todd would have preferred the FV18 in Ray's room and the Cap 2400 ULF in Todd's room. To state it more plainly, neither of them liked the Cap 2400 at all in Ray's room, and I wanted to understand why.

I helped to advise Todd when he was selecting his subwoofers, and have communicated with Ray throughout his subwoofer journey, so they both have real credibility for me. Given the fact that I believe them, and believe that I would probably have reacted the same way, I have tried to give some thought to what could have produced that result? What was it that they heard, or at least experienced, that made the subs seem so different in the two rooms?

Ray has been explaining it in terms of a small closed room versus a large open room, with the Cap 2400 better suited to the larger open space at Todd's house, but not well suited to a small space. I think that he is sort of on the right track, but not in exactly the way he is thinking. First, let's try to exclude what we think it isn't. I think that the difference isn't low-frequency SPL. Both subs produce potentially significant amounts of low-frequency SPL, and my understanding is that Ray even backed-off the low-frequency adjust (LFA) on the Cap 2400 to the minimum setting. At that setting, it would definitely have been producing less <20Hz SPL than the FV18, at a comparable volume level. So, the explanation can't be low-frequency SPL.

What about distortion, then? Well-made subwoofers should not be distorting at moderate volume levels, and I don't think that the two subwoofers were being pushed anywhere near their maximum levels. Plus, when they adjusted the LFA to the minimum setting, that would have taken a good deal of the low-frequency burden off of the Cap 2400, further reducing any possibility of distortion. But, they still didn't like the subwoofer in Ray's room, even then. It still sounded relatively heavy and indistinct compared to the FV18. So, it couldn't have been a difference in the amount of distortion, produced by the two subwoofers, that they were hearing.

Perhaps it was the inherent sound signature of the subwoofer that they didn't like. But, that can't be the explanation either. Both agree that the sound signature of the Cap 2400 is different from the FV18, but they both liked that sound signature in Todd's room--even with dual Cap 2400's. So, it can't be just the native sound signature, it still has to be something about the space. I went back to read all of the comments from the recent Houston GTG at Todd's house, and Todd described the Cap 2400 as "violent, pounding hard, more like a wrecking ball than a ballerina". Now, I think we're getting somewhere in trying to explain the difference they heard in the two rooms.

I'm not sure where I first picked-up the idea that below about 30Hz (and especially below 20Hz) we feel low-frequencies as much as we actually hear them. I'm sure that I read it as I was researching stuff, but I have believed it for some time now. It can be very difficult to separate what we are actually hearing from the tactile sensations that accompany low-bass sounds. I believe that can be particularly true on a suspended wood floor, because the floor itself acts like a drum head, in that case, magnifying the tactile sensations with it's own vibrations.

But wait, both Ray and Todd are on suspended wood floors, so how can that have anything to do with the differences they experienced? I know just enough about construction to be dangerous, and I know that all suspended wood floors are not alike. First, the larger the floor area to be supported, the higher the likelihood that the structure--the floor joists--will be thicker and stronger, and perhaps also more tightly-spaced. That would reduce vibrations. Second, consider the surface area involved. I said earlier that a suspended wood floor can vibrate like a drum head, and it's actually a perfect analogy.

Think of a snare drum, with it's relatively small surface area, and it's tight surface tension, and think of how light a strike it takes to make it vibrate. Then think of a bass drum, with it's much larger surface area, and it's less rigid support, and think of how much harder a strike is required, by a much heavier drum stick, to make the bass drum head vibrate. Suspended wood floors are like that too.

I went back to look at the pictures of Todd's very nice house again. Not only is his floor area much larger than Ray's, but it is less rigidly supported. In fact, one side is not supported by a wall at all, but opens into a stair area. So, the drum analogy works perfectly. Not only is the floor of Todd's room more like a bass drum in surface area, but it is also less rigidly supported on the sides, and more thickly supported from below, and it simply won't vibrate as aggressively as Ray's floor will.

Now, if we put several ideas together, I think that we have a very plausible and likely explanation for the differences they experienced in the two rooms. First, is the fact that we can't really distinguish very well between what we hear, and what we feel <30, and even more so <20Hz. Second, is the fact that the Cap 2400 creates much more low-bass TR than the FV18 does. As far as I know, it creates more low-bass TR than any other brand of ported subwoofers. Todd's description of "violent" and "a wrecking ball" is part of that. It doesn't sound like a wrecking ball when it plays Mozart, or when it is providing bass support for a vocal solo. It only sounds violent when it is playing low-frequencies, and producing significant low-bass TR.

Third and finally, on Ray's snare drum floor, the Cap 2400 was like a bludgeon, producing low-bass TR that interfered with the ability to distinguish low-bass sounds. It wasn't distortion produced by the subwoofer. It was too much resonance produced by the floor. Put the same subwoofer back into Todd's bass drum floor, and those same hard drum strikes did not produce too much floor resonance, and they did not interfere with anyone's ability to distinguish bass sounds.

The <30Hz TR from the Cap 2400 would still have been abundant, when the LFA was reduced in Ray's room. The TR would just have been moved-up in frequency--more toward 30Hz. But, even with the LFA back to a normal level in Todd's room, the TR wouldn't have been so overwhelming. In fact, the bass drum floor, with it's large surface area, and less rigid surrounding walls (due to the open side), would have attenuated the low-bass TR for all of the subwoofers.

I think that this is the answer to the differences in what they experienced in the two rooms. Not all suspended wood floors behave in the same way, and Ray's suspended wood floor must amplify low-bass TR, through sympathetic resonance, much more than Todd's floor does. It's certainly logical that it would have to do that.

The reason that I think this analysis is helpful for Geo's thread is partly intellectual curiosity, for all of us, and partly practical. Concrete floors, sitting on soil or bedrock, just don't resonate much at all. So, virtually all of the TR that we feel has to come from the subwoofer itself, and not from the floor. Several of us with concrete floors have been observing what a difference that makes. But, I'm not sure that people with suspended wood floors, or those who don't really care as much about low-bass TR, realize just how significant the difference can be.

I want Geo to get whatever subwoofers he wants, whether that is FV18's, or Cap 2400's, or something else. But, when we advise him, we may not just be talking about sound signature, or low-frequency SPL. Ray's and Todd's experience demonstrates that. We are also talking about what a factor low-bass TR can be for some people, and in some rooms, in the overall bass experience. So, the more that low-bass TR is a priority for someone, especially on a concrete slab, the more he may wish to emphasize that in his subwoofer selection.

I apologize for the long post, to anyone who bothered to read it all. (TLDR!) But, I thought this was an interesting problem to try to solve, and one with direct relevance to the OP's situation.

Regards,
Mike
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Last edited by mthomas47; 10-31-2018 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Typo
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post #101 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 12:26 PM
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Basically it comes down to this:

Ray heard the the FV18 paper cone's on suspended floor in his room and in Todd's open room and think it is relevant enough to EVERYONE. I am saying it is not enough because I was not impressed with the FV18 alum cone on concrete. The floor type plays a huge role here.

Ray didn't like 1 Cap 1400 or 2400ULF in his room with suspended floor, or more precisely, Ray's room didn't like the JTR 33mm x-max driver. Geo is upgrading from more wooferage in a smaller room, that could change down the road. Geo is looking for ULF and more TR. Therefore I believe Geo should aim higher.

Upgrading from the XTZ 3X12 (equivalent to a Cap 1400) and PSA V1801 to 2 FV18s is pretty much a lateral move. Just look at the prices! If it takes 3 FV18s to make it worthwhile, then why not just go with a couple of the future proof, 10Hz tuned end game subs like the 2400/2400ULFs, which Geo was also considering in the first place?

And no. FV18 either alum cone or paper cone is not even close as an end game sub.
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post #102 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 01:06 PM
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@mthomas47 great post as usual.

I think this has turned out to be a Rythmik vs JTR issue which was not the intent. My thread was going really well with a mature conversation and then we get back to brand bashing here. Statements like Ray does not like TR as much as Geo etc are totally false and incorrect. I think from my end I have provided all the information as objectively as I could in my thread and here. I am not defending any brand, that is how its being stated though. If Geo wants more info he is welcome to PM me.

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post #103 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
My thread was going really well with a mature conversation and then we get back to brand bashing here. Statements like Ray does not like TR as much as Geo etc are totally false and incorrect.
Contrary to what you think, no one has bashed any brands here.

If you want to hear brand bashing, you should hear what Tony and I talked about when he came to my place...

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post #104 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 01:31 PM
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Dual 2400ULF's vs (3) XTZ 3x12's vs (3) FV18's

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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Ummm... since when did this thread become YOUR thread???

Contrary to what you think, no one has bashed any brands here.

If you want to hear brand bashing, you should hear what Tony and I talked about when he came to my place...


I was referring to my thread that had comparisons of these same subs.

I think you need to turn down the bass on that sub of yours. Starting to affect your thinking.


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post #105 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 01:40 PM
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mthomas47,
You hit the nail on the head. I changed my room to get more TR since my floor is carpet over concrete. I built a wooden riser for all chairs to be on and at the end of the day I preferred my concrete,why? Because my subs give out loys of TR and tons of ULF so the wooden riser was actually too much and could literally drown out my 130 dB capable mains. My back row is on the same wooden riser and I don't like the bass back there, I prefer my articulate concrete. It shakes everything but the floor and the back row shakes the floor and my ears with even more pressure. My brother in law has a wooden suspended floor and with just one Chase 18.1 sealed sub(driver like the Cap 118), it feels like he has 2 33mm x-max subs. Not quite like my monsters, but close.
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post #106 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
@mthomas47 great post as usual.

I think this has turned out to be a Rythmik vs JTR issue which was not the intent. My thread was going really well with a mature conversation and then we get back to brand bashing here. Statements like Ray does not like TR as much as Geo etc are totally false and incorrect. I think from my end I have provided all the information as objectively as I could in my thread and here. I am not defending any brand, that is how its being stated though. If Geo wants more info he is welcome to PM me.

Thank you very much, Ray! It is always disappointing to me when a discussion like this one goes from "what is the better subwoofer for this particular individual, in this particular situation?" to a referendum on which is the better subwoofer in general. I don't like that part of this hobby very much, and I try very hard not to participate in that sort of thing. Among other things, it really is too easy to have our desire to share our own experiences or preferences to come across as defending a particular brand or model.

I really don't think that it is all that hard to take the high road with this stuff, though. We just have to remember that there is a high road. I personally know that your intentions here are good. And I know very well that you also like low-bass TR, as I have followed your subwoofer odyssey from where you started, with a single PC12-NSD. And, the low-bass TR was something you missed when you tried some really good sealed subwoofers in your room. That whole issue seems to be very much a matter of personal preference.

But, I wouldn't begin to know how to establish a continuum, for how much ULF TR, people prefer. I suspect that both you and I would rank well above average in that respect. But, I am sure that there would be people who would greatly exceed our appreciation for TR. I have read about some of their systems in the HT ULF score thread. And, then there is the room to consider. If I were guessing, I would guess that Geo would be pretty well up there in his fondness for tactile ULF, compared to most members of AVS, and perhaps for most present company included.

Regards,
Mike
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post #107 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 01:54 PM
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I think you need to turn down the bass on that sub of yours. Starting to affect your thinking.
Nah... I am +/- 5.5dB from 6.3Hz to 80 Hz with the LF Adjust at minimum in my HT.



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post #108 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 02:25 PM
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I will give my opinion for Geo, for whatever that is worth. I have a 1430 cubic foot room on concrete. I actually have all walls behind my theater concrete but the ceiling. I also have that wooden riser for the back seats. I would recommend the Cap 2400s to get the most spl posiible for the widest bandwidth possible and then back down the volume if too much. Here is my response on concrete with just two high x-max drivers in an IB wall.
The LF adjust is set to minimum but I tried the LF adjust at half way and the experience was crazy! This is sealed and my little crack in my double doors is causing me to have a peak like a low tuned port. I used to have 8 22 mm x-max drivers in which should have more max spl. These two 54mm drivers feel more violent and articulate at the same time. Now, on the back riser I can't play these subs hot at all.

This is no EQ at all.

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post #109 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I wish I believed that selecting a subwoofer, or a speaker, or a car, or a flavor of ice cream were as simple as just taking a poll of several people who have tried both models or flavors. Different rooms/objectives/tastes will inevitably produce different selections.

I believe that three FV18's would be outstanding for most people in a much larger room than Geo's, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. I have already recommended them to several people. But, when I do, I am paying careful attention to what they have now, because that helps to establish a kind of baseline for what they are used to, and for what they may be looking for.

And, then I pay attention to what they are saying about the pluses and minuses of their existing subs. Are they looking for more clarity for music; more low-bass growl and TR for movies? What is it about their existing subs that isn't quite good enough, or strong enough? I just can't see this as a one-size-fits-all solution, where if we know someone's room size, we can tell him which subwoofer to buy.

I think that people may sometimes be a little hung-up on the performance for price issue. That is one of PSA's claims to fame, and I think it is a legitimate one. But, that's another one-size-fits all approach. Not everyone uses that kind of arithmetic approach to purchasing subwoofers, or other things for that matter. Sometimes, people just want what they want. And, someone who wishes that he could accommodate a pair of much more expensive Cap 4000 ULF's, in his room, doesn't seem like a good candidate for that kind of calculation.

I'm also not at all sure about the three is better than two approach. I think that three subs, long-term may very well be better than two, although that depends somewhat on the specific room. Personally, I really like having four subwoofers. But, I have been convinced for quite a while now, that we had better make sure that we are getting the right subs to start with, and then just adding additional multiples of those subs, as the circumstances require and the budget allows, rather than buying multiples of a different sub initially, because they are less expensive.

Depending to some extent on how I read the individual in question, I will usually recommend buying the most powerful single sub, or pair, that someone is honestly considering, or can afford. And then, he can always add to them when and if it is desirable to do so. I do that because we so often see people upgrading for MOAR. Does anyone know anyone on the forum who might do something like that?

Who's to say that if Geo buys a pair of Cap 2400's now, that he won't move to a larger place two years from now, and add another Cap 2400, or even a Cap 4000? I believe that Jeff deliberately made the port tunes on the various low-bass models the same to facilitate that kind of pairing. So, long-term, it may not come down to whether three is better than two, but whether the buyer started with the right two to begin with.

Ultimately, I don't think that anyone can predict what Geo and Ramona will like best, based on our own experiences and preferences. We have to take our cues from what they have now, and from what they say they like and want more of. In an ideal world, Geo would be able to hear both finalists in his own room. And perhaps he will be willing to make that financial investment, as Ray did. Unfortunately, I don't think that the listening experience would be comparable if he auditioned both subs in a room with a suspended wood floor. I really do think that concrete makes that much difference with respect to low-bass TR.

In the absence of his ability to test them side-by-side, I'm not going to recommend based on cost, or on the basis of how three is better than two. I'm going to try to take my cues from what I believe are Geo's actual objectives and preferences and try to be supportive of those. I may guess wrong, but that's my goal. And, I am going to default to the best advice I know, which is to start with the most powerful subwoofer the buyer is considering. In this case, "powerful" would need to include both low-frequency SPL, and low-frequency TR, due to the concrete floor and due to Geo's personal preferences. And, when those two factors are taken, in conjunction, I don't really think that it's a close call.

But, that's simply one opinion based on how I read Geo, not on my own personal goals or opinions of the subwoofers. And, there is nothing whatsoever that says that I am reading Geo correctly, or making the right recommendation!

Regards,
Mike


Edit: Geo, I saw your post above, where you mention cost, after I had already written this long post, but I don't think I will change anything. Just feel free to disregard anything which isn't applicable to your goals or preferences.
Idk how you do it, but you do! I think that was a very good assessment of me and the current situation. It's all applicable.
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post #110 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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@mthomas47 I think your theory of the diff types of suspended floors and how they interact with subs, and how low-bass TR plays a big role, was very educational. I think most of us learned a thing or 2, or at least walked away with a better understanding in general.

Thank you for taking time out from being sick and writing all that out, it's appreciated! Hope you feel better soon. Colds are never fun.
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post #111 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I changed my room to get more TR since my floor is carpet over concrete. I built a wooden riser for all chairs to be on and at the end of the day I preferred my concrete,why? Because my subs give out loys of TR and tons of ULF so the wooden riser was actually too much and could literally drown out my 130 dB capable mains. My back row is on the same wooden riser and I don't like the bass back there, I prefer my articulate concrete. It shakes everything but the floor and the back row shakes the floor and my ears with even more pressure.
That's what I was thinking of maybe doing in the future in my future dedicated room. Thanks for sharing your experience with it.
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post #112 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I will give my opinion for Geo, for whatever that is worth. I have a 1430 cubic foot room on concrete. I actually have all walls behind my theater concrete but the ceiling. I also have that wooden riser for the back seats. I would recommend the Cap 2400s to get the most spl posiible for the widest bandwidth possible and then back down the volume if too much. Here is my response on concrete with just two high x-max drivers in an IB wall.
The LF adjust is set to minimum but I tried the LF adjust at half way and the experience was crazy! This is sealed and my little crack in my double doors is causing me to have a peak like a low tuned port. I used to have 8 22 mm x-max drivers in which should have more max spl. These two 54mm drivers feel more violent and articulate at the same time. Now, on the back riser I can't play these subs hot at all.

This is no EQ at all.

That's insane!!! I'm not into DIY but out of curiosity, how big are those 2 drivers and how much did it cost to build them?

That seems like an intense movie experience!!
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post #113 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 07:50 PM
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It is! They are the RE Audio XXX-18s. I bought them from Ricci, I wish he had 2 more. I use a speakerpower Sp1-4000 amp with the LF adjust set at 10hz. These subs are ULF monsters.
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post #114 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 08:02 PM
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Idk how you do it, but you do! I think that was a very good assessment of me and the current situation. It's all applicable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
@mthomas47 I think your theory of the diff types of suspended floors and how they interact with subs, and how low-bass TR plays a big role, was very educational. I think most of us learned a thing or 2, or at least walked away with a better understanding in general.

Thank you for taking time out from being sick and writing all that out, it's appreciated! Hope you feel better soon. Colds are never fun.
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That's insane!!! I'm not into DIY but out of curiosity, how big are those 2 drivers and how much did it cost to build them?

That seems like an intense movie experience!!

You are very welcome, and I appreciate the kind words! Colds suck, but at least I have had plenty of time to write long posts.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you could come pretty close to the performance that @MKtheater is getting, with two Cap 2400's in your small room. And, like him, you may not even need wood risers to enjoy all the tactile ULF you could ever want.

Regards,
Mike
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post #115 of 127 Old 10-31-2018, 08:07 PM
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My subs are like having 2 4000-ULF from 10-30hz, 2 cap 2400s from 30-80, and much more since I have high output down to 3-4hz. My room is great for ULF.
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post #116 of 127 Old 11-01-2018, 08:08 PM
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First of all, I hope you feel better soon Mike! Secondly, Mr. Thomas you are a dangerous man with a keyboard and time on your hands!

All kidding aside, excellent post my good man and it seems you might have out done yourself on that one.

@GeoJustGeo , I would heed Mike and MKtheatre's advice, considering their recommendations and especially since both of the them have experience with concrete floors. If you are looking for some wicked low end bass and low TR, the 2400 will certainly answer the call.

Todd

Edit: I will mention this again because I believe it is super important.....the only way for sure is to listen in your own room! We are merely advising you on our own experiences which is speculation with the best intentions.

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post #117 of 127 Old 11-03-2018, 08:23 AM
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@ GeoJustGeo

This should make it easier for you... Or not...

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post #118 of 127 Old 11-03-2018, 08:31 AM
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What Chucky has noted above is a good point. There holiday sales either going on now or coming up so since you are not in a real hurry I would check them out Geo but don’t wait too long. We know JTR and Rythmik have it going on for sure. Again get one of each and compare in your room. You will be happy making any decision since you would have ruled out the what ifs. With the sales going on I would compare JTR 2400 ULF and FV15HP and may be the FV18 paper cone. We should be able to compare the JTR and FV25HP in Houston soon as well.


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Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #119 of 127 Old 11-03-2018, 08:44 AM
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Edit: I will mention this again because I believe it is super important.....the only way for sure is to listen in your own room! We are merely advising you on our own experiences which is speculation with the best intentions.
As mentioned by Todd, myself and a few others, I wouldn’t drop that much cash without auditioning them at my own home. @imureh if you read his sub journey, he has been doing just that to get him to where he is now. He had to pay returning shipping for a few subs, expensive way to find out? Yes, but that is the ONLY way to know which subs are right for YOU. In your situation, it is not a bad idea to buy one each of the 2400ulf and a FV18 rev2 and compare them one on one in your room. Return the one you don’t like and add more sub(s) to the one you do like. At the end, it costs you what? $250ish to know.
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post #120 of 127 Old 11-03-2018, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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@ GeoJustGeo

This should make it easier for you... Or not...

That does help...kinda lol. Thanks.
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