SVS Launches 3000 Series 13" Subwoofers - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 282 Old 11-14-2018, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DJ_JonnyV View Post
Yeah, thought the same thing about the cylinders when I looked at the 3000 lineup. Quickly realizing that it seems like they are phasing out cylinder looking at their lineup. Kind of a shame since that's what put them on the map in the first place.
Perhaps, but I totally get it. I doubt they sell many of them compared to their more usual form factor subs. Most speakers are not the most attractive things, and as such folks tend to prefer ones that blend in with the décor. The cylinder subs may make great conversation pieces, but blend in they do not.

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post #32 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 02:05 AM
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Disappointing price to be honest.

HSU's ULS15 is $779 or if you want the fancy rosenut finish, $979 - This sub trade blows with the SB4000 and in a few cases, beat it outright. The SB3000 costing $999? Uhmmmm...?

As for the PB3000, I already spotted it a few months back at a China audio festival. At that time I was already surprised that they are using the same driver platform off the 2000 series - just made better and more robust. While it remains to be seen if not using their older 12+ series driver is a good or bad thing, I'm kinda miff'd that they call it a "13-inch" driver when it isn't really depending on how you want to measure it (just like the 16 Ultras aren't really 16-inch drivers).

Anyways, like the SB3000... The PB3000 for $1399 is a hard ask here. I was really expecting it to be $1199 instead and I think that's where the sweetspot would have been for this sub. $1400 means that there are simply better subs like the Rythmik FV15HP, Mono 15, Hsu VTF15, or PSA V1811 at this price range that on paper (which has been proven more often than not in recent years) just doesn't seem like it's presenting good value. No, I'd rather they make it "dumb" without all that fancy pants bluetooth (as convenient as it is) and DSP and charge it less.

Also - the whole marketing fluff and talk, while I understand why they had it wrote in that way (to confuse and "wow" the uninformed), it's all starting to sound like a certain fruit company. It's the "first this and first that" finger pointing all over again.

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post #33 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Disappointing price to be honest.

HSU's ULS15 is $779 or if you want the fancy rosenut finish, $979 - This sub trade blows with the SB4000 and in a few cases, beat it outright. The SB3000 costing $999? Uhmmmm...?

As for the PB3000, I already spotted it a few months back at a China audio festival. At that time I was already surprised that they are using the same driver platform off the 2000 series - just made better and more robust. While it remains to be seen if not using their older 12+ series driver is a good or bad thing, I'm kinda miff'd that they call it a "13-inch" driver when it isn't really depending on how you want to measure it (just like the 16 Ultras aren't really 16-inch drivers).

Anyways, like the SB3000... The PB3000 for $1399 is a hard ask here. I was really expecting it to be $1199 instead and I think that's where the sweetspot would have been for this sub. $1400 means that there are simply better subs like the Rythmik FV15HP, Mono 15, Hsu VTF15, or PSA V1811 at this price range that on paper (which has been proven more often than not in recent years) just doesn't seem like it's presenting good value. No, I'd rather they make it "dumb" without all that fancy pants bluetooth (as convenient as it is) and DSP and charge it less.

Also - the whole marketing fluff and talk, while I understand why they had it wrote in that way (to confuse and "wow" the uninformed), it's all starting to sound like a certain fruit company. It's the "first this and first that" finger pointing all over again.
even the overpriced Outlaw Ultra X13 is a better value lol

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post #34 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Disappointing price to be honest.

HSU's ULS15 is $779 or if you want the fancy rosenut finish, $979 - This sub trade blows with the SB4000 and in a few cases, beat it outright. The SB3000 costing $999? Uhmmmm...?

As for the PB3000, I already spotted it a few months back at a China audio festival. At that time I was already surprised that they are using the same driver platform off the 2000 series - just made better and more robust. While it remains to be seen if not using their older 12+ series driver is a good or bad thing, I'm kinda miff'd that they call it a "13-inch" driver when it isn't really depending on how you want to measure it (just like the 16 Ultras aren't really 16-inch drivers).

Anyways, like the SB3000... The PB3000 for $1399 is a hard ask here. I was really expecting it to be $1199 instead and I think that's where the sweetspot would have been for this sub. $1400 means that there are simply better subs like the Rythmik FV15HP, Mono 15, Hsu VTF15, or PSA V1811 at this price range that on paper (which has been proven more often than not in recent years) just doesn't seem like it's presenting good value. No, I'd rather they make it "dumb" without all that fancy pants bluetooth (as convenient as it is) and DSP and charge it less.

Also - the whole marketing fluff and talk, while I understand why they had it wrote in that way (to confuse and "wow" the uninformed), it's all starting to sound like a certain fruit company. It's the "first this and first that" finger pointing all over again.
I look at it differently. It always boils down to price, quality, and service. You get to pick two of the three. I am a dealer for brands like Bryston, Magico, Krell, JLAudio, Arcam, Raihdo, Emotiva and several other premium lines. Many of which are wonderful people to work with. Without question, I find that the customer service of SVS to be #1 out of any brand that I've worked with. I've been doing this for 20 years now. Their incredible corporate culture starts from the top with Gary and it filters down to the rest of their crew. He hires genuinely passionate people and it shows in what they do. What you call "marketing fluff" I call confidence and passion. Back to the topic of service: SVS goes above and beyond in support. Things like trades, fast no-questions-asked repairs, etc. If I made a phone call to anyone of their team on an evening, they would pick up the phone if they are able to. In fact, I wanted to leave a voice mail on Monique's cell about an order change at 8 p.m. on a Saturday night. Much to my surprise, she picked up the phone (I felt bad I was bugging her but I too pick up the phone whenever humanly possible). Their can-do attitude is 2nd to none. No, they are not perfect. But their reputation is often talked about and it has been earned over the years.

Years ago, I was an HSU dealer. The fit and finish was decent. They have always been in the PSB-like camp. Meaning, their mission is how can we make a great sounding product for the least amount of money. I have a lot of customers that bought an HSU sub and I've heard them in many homes. Make no mistake, they sound great. But most customers are not sensitive to a $100-$200 bill. Personally, I will pay that extra hundred or two to get better quality cabinet or mosfet amps and yes, exceptional customer service. Because when you cut out that $100 or $200 on a semi-spendy competitively priced sub (the 3000 series qualifies), something has to give. But if price, price, and price is someones key goal, then by all means, we can agree that the HSU costs less (pound for pound) and they accomplished their goal of making something sound great for the least amount of $$. To my eyes and ears, their small premium is worth it. With that all said, I will stress that HSU makes a fine sub. As always, YMMV.

SVS came out with the 3000 series to go after the $1K(ish) price point with incredible performance. As sure as I am sitting here, they will be selling a lot of them. That means it is going to come out of the hide of someone (there is only so much business to go around). IMO, other brands in this price/performance category are going to feel it in their pocket book.
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post #35 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 07:25 AM
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From the SVS website:
  • 2000 series: "Low-creep rubber long-throw surround for excellent durability and longevity"
  • 3000 series: "Proprietary injection molded gasket and SBR extreme-excursion surround maintains ideal pistonic motion for pinpoint accuracy and control."

Is the series 3000 SBR surround an improvement over the rubber used in the series 2000 surround?
Is SBR the same thing as what some subwoofer brands call "foam"?

Thanks
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post #36 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Disappointing price to be honest.

HSU's ULS15 is $779 or if you want the fancy rosenut finish, $979 - This sub trade blows with the SB4000 and in a few cases, beat it outright. The SB3000 costing $999? Uhmmmm...?

As for the PB3000, I already spotted it a few months back at a China audio festival. At that time I was already surprised that they are using the same driver platform off the 2000 series - just made better and more robust. While it remains to be seen if not using their older 12+ series driver is a good or bad thing, I'm kinda miff'd that they call it a "13-inch" driver when it isn't really depending on how you want to measure it (just like the 16 Ultras aren't really 16-inch drivers).

Anyways, like the SB3000... The PB3000 for $1399 is a hard ask here. I was really expecting it to be $1199 instead and I think that's where the sweetspot would have been for this sub. $1400 means that there are simply better subs like the Rythmik FV15HP, Mono 15, Hsu VTF15, or PSA V1811 at this price range that on paper (which has been proven more often than not in recent years) just doesn't seem like it's presenting good value. No, I'd rather they make it "dumb" without all that fancy pants bluetooth (as convenient as it is) and DSP and charge it less.

Also - the whole marketing fluff and talk, while I understand why they had it wrote in that way (to confuse and "wow" the uninformed), it's all starting to sound like a certain fruit company. It's the "first this and first that" finger pointing all over again.
I tend to agree with you on the pricing, I think $1200 or so would have been the sweet spot for the PB3K. The PB2K is $799, so it's a $600 jump to a PB3K. That's a pretty big jump. I get that it has a better driver, amp, app support, etc. I think those are all very positive things, but I think $1199 would be the sweet spot and a lot of people who are thinking PB2K might make the jump up.

In terms of the the market I think SVS will cater to a much broader customer base than many other ID brands. SVS is carried by more dealers and even in physical stores, and international markets, which really means they are likely competing more with big box brands like B&W, PSB, Goldenear, etc. From that perspective their pricing is pretty good for what you are getting.

I don't think SVS is really trying to compete with say an Hsu on pricing. I am not sure they really have to in order to be successful.
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post #37 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 09:18 AM
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Too many models

Is it just me or do some sub brands have too many models? Would the price be lower if they had less models.
What is wrong with having one model per driver size with a ported or sealed option.
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post #38 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 09:38 AM
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I looked at your picture. How do you get the chess pieces to stay put!
I have never had issues with vibrations from my PB-13 Ultras cabinet. The woofer is moving, the floor is shaking but the cabinet remains inert.
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post #39 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 09:41 AM
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I can't believe you guys are griping over a few hundred bucks. That's not a lot of money these days...certainly not to most people with a hobby like AV. Can we instead say that this is the least costly product in the SVS lineup to feature app based control, and if their marketing is to be noticed also one of the more advanced designs? Really, that's not worth a few hundred bucks over the 2000 line?

Also, what HSU is doing is irrelevant because they don't have app based control. Say what you want about making it simple and cheaper, but in advanced systems having not only levels but delay and parametric EQ bands adjustable on the fly from your phone while seated at the MLP is a game changer. For instance, I can run the Anthem correction used as a measurement tool to tweak the SB16s' EQ, then turn the Anthem correction off so as not to molest my full range but still retain flat response under my crossover frequency....all from my phone...on my couch. Really, thats not worth 200 bucks? Give me a break.
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post #40 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I look at it differently. It always boils down to price, quality, and service. You get to pick two of the three.

I think Power Sound Audio breaks that mould quite frankly.

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post #41 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
I can't believe you guys are griping over a few hundred bucks. That's not a lot of money these days...certainly not to most people with a hobby like AV. Can we instead say that this is the least costly product in the SVS lineup to feature app based control, and if their marketing is to be noticed also one of the more advanced designs? Really, that's not worth a few hundred bucks over the 2000 line?

Also, what HSU is doing is irrelevant because they don't have app based control. Say what you want about making it simple and cheaper, but in advanced systems having not only levels but delay and parametric EQ bands adjustable on the fly from your phone while seated at the MLP is a game changer. For instance, I can run the Anthem correction used as a measurement tool to tweak the SB16s' EQ, then turn the Anthem correction off so as not to molest my full range but still retain flat response under my crossover frequency....all from my phone...on my couch. Really, thats not worth 200 bucks? Give me a break.
Where are you coming up with $200? Assuming a PB3000 compares (performance wise) to a Hsu VTF-3MK2 you are looking at $550 shipped price difference.

Price wise the PB3000 is very close to a PSA 18" ported sub shipped, and quite a bit more than any ported 15" PSA sub.

I think the app support is great but is it really worth that much more? From a performance perspective most people here want bang for the buck and this is where SVS will struggle against other vendors who can offer more output for less money.

But as I alluded earlier I don't really think SVS is trying to compete with other major ID brands anymore in terms of performance and and cost. I think they are carving out a different path through retailers and international markets.
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post #42 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 10:15 AM
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I think Power Sound Audio breaks that mould quite frankly.
Annddd...we have a winner.

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post #43 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
I can't believe you guys are griping over a few hundred bucks. That's not a lot of money these days...certainly not to most people with a hobby like AV. Can we instead say that this is the least costly product in the SVS lineup to feature app based control, and if their marketing is to be noticed also one of the more advanced designs? Really, that's not worth a few hundred bucks over the 2000 line?

Also, what HSU is doing is irrelevant because they don't have app based control. Say what you want about making it simple and cheaper, but in advanced systems having not only levels but delay and parametric EQ bands adjustable on the fly from your phone while seated at the MLP is a game changer. For instance, I can run the Anthem correction used as a measurement tool to tweak the SB16s' EQ, then turn the Anthem correction off so as not to molest my full range but still retain flat response under my crossover frequency....all from my phone...on my couch. Really, thats not worth 200 bucks? Give me a break.
For people who just want an easy, turnkey solution, and don't mind that they aren't getting the best value? Sure, spend the extra and get an SVS sub.

Me, I'd rather put that $200 into a MiniDSP 2x4 HD which can handle all four of my subs, and put my sub money into PSA, where I get much better value per dollar than with SVS. Again, I get that some people want that couch-phone app convenience, but I just connect the MiniDSP to my HTPC and use a keyboard and mouse at the couch. More power than a phone app, and just as convenient for me.
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post #44 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
I think Power Sound Audio breaks that mould quite frankly.
The laws of economics are at play. Power Sound (which has a wonderful blend of price, quality, and service) has to have a compromise. For instance, do they always have stock (service)? Can you listen to it locally and touch it (service)? Do they have as much infrastructure to spin orders or returns or RA's quickly (service)? Do they have trades (service)? Does someone always pick up the phone (service)? Do they have an app based EQ control (quality)?

For me, I'd buy a Power Sound over a HSU. They make a superb driver in combination with a beefy amp. And I think we can agree that all too often, some companies only deliver one attribute (price OR quality OR service). I'll leave those subwoofer companies nameless. So I think Power Sound does extremely well on price and quality with good enough service for many. My point in my other post was that SVS has their flagship technology that is trickling down into the $1K market. That will in fact "force" other ID brands to answer fast or it they will steal sales. Some of my traditional sub brands have felt the pinch of SVS, Power Sound, HSU, and Rythmik etc. To date, SVS has had a gap in the high performance $1K price point. That is going to put pressure on the brands I raddled off.

So to clarify, no one can deliver on best in class price, quality, and service for the long run. It's impossible.
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post #45 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tan
The PB3000 for $1399 is a hard ask here. I was really expecting it to be $1199 instead and I think that's where the sweetspot would have been for this sub. $1400 means that there are simply better subs like the Rythmik FV15HP, Mono 15, Hsu VTF15, or PSA V1811 at this price range that on paper (which has been proven more often than not in recent years) just doesn't seem like it's presenting good value
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But as I alluded earlier I don't really think SVS is trying to compete with other major ID brands anymore in terms of performance and and cost. I think they are carving out a different path through retailers and international markets.
I think this is correct. There are probably much better subs at the price range, but how many, if any, would be available through Amazon and its different branches around the world? I live in Mexico, and it's very likely that at some point Amazon.mx will carry these subs at a very competitive price. The other subs are just too expensive to import. Buying through Amazon and other international retailers is considerably much easier. I think Rhytmik ask you to specify your own carrier to ship their subs!

Also...

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrummingdude
I can't believe you guys are griping over a few hundred bucks. That's not a lot of money these days...
Maybe not in the US. But in an international market, it can make all the difference. That said, sadly, even with the SVS subs being, perhaps, a bit overpriced, they're usually the best options for people living in other countries. Now, if HSU, Rhytmik or PSA were to become more global, then SVS would start to sweat. Hell, I think even in the US, SVS are the market leader, at least in the ID category, if one can still consider them as such.
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post #46 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 10:31 AM
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for $1500 i'd rather have the Outlaw Ultra X13 with ultra low distortion. But even then i find the X13 overpriced which makes the PB3000 way overpriced.....

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post #47 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 10:55 AM
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I think the app support is great but is it really worth that much more?
In today's world app support for electronic gadgetry is no longer a feature. It is expected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
From a performance perspective most people here want bang for the buck and this is where SVS will struggle against other vendors who can offer more output for less money.
Peak output has always been the pinnacle of subworthiness around AVSforum, IMO to the detriment of other very important subwoofer qualities. Don't believe me? Head over to the DIY forums where the guy with the greatest number of 18" subs being powered by his own utility company substation is lauded as having the "best" setup. Now, I'm not saying rigs like that are bad...far from it, they are impressive, but measuring a product's value on output and distortion (or even decay, Xmax etc) alone is an injustice to that firm.
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post #48 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
I can't believe you guys are griping over a few hundred bucks. That's not a lot of money these days...certainly not to most people with a hobby like AV. Can we instead say that this is the least costly product in the SVS lineup to feature app based control, and if their marketing is to be noticed also one of the more advanced designs? Really, that's not worth a few hundred bucks over the 2000 line?

Also, what HSU is doing is irrelevant because they don't have app based control. Say what you want about making it simple and cheaper, but in advanced systems having not only levels but delay and parametric EQ bands adjustable on the fly from your phone while seated at the MLP is a game changer. For instance, I can run the Anthem correction used as a measurement tool to tweak the SB16s' EQ, then turn the Anthem correction off so as not to molest my full range but still retain flat response under my crossover frequency....all from my phone...on my couch. Really, thats not worth 200 bucks? Give me a break.
For people who just want an easy, turnkey solution, and don't mind that they aren't getting the best value? Sure, spend the extra and get an SVS sub.

Me, I'd rather put that $200 into a MiniDSP 2x4 HD which can handle all four of my subs, and put my sub money into PSA, where I get much better value per dollar than with SVS. Again, I get that some people want that couch-phone app convenience, but I just connect the MiniDSP to my HTPC and use a keyboard and mouse at the couch. More power than a phone app, and just as convenient for me.
I’ve also wondered how much of a premium to put in an app feature...I am likely getting a NAD 758 that has DIRAC...will I really need the app feature if I saved substantially to get a 2000 series vs a 3000 series if I have a GREAT room correction software with Duel subs Without an app feature??!?!

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post #49 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
for $1500 i'd rather have the Outlaw Ultra X13 with ultra low distortion. But even then i find the X13 overpriced which makes the PB3000 way overpriced.....
The problem is even in Canada we cannot get a sub like the Oatlaw Ultra-and we are talking about Canada!!

SVS for some, is the only option for this price category...not PSU, not Rythmik, not Outlaw...
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post #50 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
For people who just want an easy, turnkey solution, and don't mind that they aren't getting the best value? Sure, spend the extra and get an SVS sub.

Me, I'd rather put that $200 into a MiniDSP 2x4 HD which can handle all four of my subs, and put my sub money into PSA, where I get much better value per dollar than with SVS. Again, I get that some people want that couch-phone app convenience, but I just connect the MiniDSP to my HTPC and use a keyboard and mouse at the couch. More power than a phone app, and just as convenient for me.
I have a MiniDSP. It is not easy to setup/use, and I had signal loss issues, matching voltage out etc.

The jump from using a builtin DSP on sub to adding another component in the chain is huge, in terms of complexity and difficulty. Think about how many people would be willing to add a separate DSP processor like miniDsp Dirac Live to get Dirac processing - not that many. Whats easy for you is simply too complex and impossible for most people and yes even many on Avs.
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post #51 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
I think Power Sound Audio breaks that mould quite frankly.
PSA has great products but for a regular consumer, you cannot discount the value of free home trials as well as the possibility of finding the product in a big retailer. Yes, those things increase the price, but not significantly so in this segment, and that generates a lot of goodwill.

SVS caters to normal people who want a great value in subs, they aren't after the ID crowd anymore. I'd guess PSA/Rhythmik/HSU are still mostly getting customers from geeks on forums like this, SVS is not. Out of these, PSA is the closest to mass market status like SVS, Rhythmik/HSU are firmly enthusiast only.
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post #52 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I’ve also wondered how much of a premium to put in an app feature...I am likely getting a NAD 758 that has DIRAC...will I really need the app feature if I saved substantially to get a 2000 series vs a 3000 series if I have a GREAT room correction software with Duel subs Without an app feature??!?!
You'll probably be fine with just Dirac. If not, you can always add a MiniDSP 2x4 HD later. You can't get your money back that you spent on a sub with a bundled feature like the app/DSP. I'd wager most SVS owners use the app once or twice when they first get the sub, then leave it alone once it's all set up - same thing you do with a MiniDSP, only more expensive in exchange for the slight extra convenience of using your phone instead of a computer.

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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
The problem is even in Canada we cannot get a sub like the Oatlaw Ultra-and we are talking about Canada!!

SVS for some, is the only option for this price category...not PSU, not Rythmik, not Outlaw...
Check with PSA for shipping to Canada too, the owner recently mentioned that he has been getting surprisingly good shipping rates there. A pair of PSA 15 or 18 would blow the doors off the 2000s from SVS. It's not some fly-by-night company either, it was co-founded by the "V" in SVS.
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post #53 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 12:00 PM
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The laws of economics are at play. Power Sound (which has a wonderful blend of price, quality, and service) has to have a compromise. For instance, do they always have stock (service)? Can you listen to it locally and touch it (service)? Do they have as much infrastructure to spin orders or returns or RA's quickly (service)? Do they have trades (service)? Does someone always pick up the phone (service)? Do they have an app based EQ control (quality)?

For me, I'd buy a Power Sound over a HSU. They make a superb driver in combination with a beefy amp. And I think we can agree that all too often, some companies only deliver one attribute (price OR quality OR service). I'll leave those subwoofer companies nameless. So I think Power Sound does extremely well on price and quality with good enough service for many. My point in my other post was that SVS has their flagship technology that is trickling down into the $1K market. That will in fact "force" other ID brands to answer fast or it they will steal sales. Some of my traditional sub brands have felt the pinch of SVS, Power Sound, HSU, and Rythmik etc. To date, SVS has had a gap in the high performance $1K price point. That is going to put pressure on the brands I raddled off.

So to clarify, no one can deliver on best in class price, quality, and service for the long run. It's impossible.
1. No. No one does. Unless it's a slow seller.
2. If you are willing to drive to their headquarters, yes. So, not really.
3. Infrastructure. I don't think they have any more problems than anyone else. They just brought a bunch of stuff in house. Being big doesn't mean everything is always in stock. When I had a tweeter replaced by Klipsch under warranty, I had to to wait a month for it to come in stock. However, they did answer my email I made at 4 am at 9 am. Denon recently had problems with their x8500h's initial availability as you know.
4. Yes, they do trades.
5. Tom V is famous for being available almost 365 days a year, so yeah.

ID companies service can be pretty good. I've had Enrico of Rythmik answer my PM's in the middle of the night!

My only problem with SVS is they seem to be having an amp problem on their more expensive subwoofers. As has been mentioned, SVS caters to a slightly different crowd than the price/performance crowd(that would be me, I'm relatively poor), and that's perfectly fine with me.
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post #54 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I’ve also wondered how much of a premium to put in an app feature...I am likely getting a NAD 758 that has DIRAC...will I really need the app feature if I saved substantially to get a 2000 series vs a 3000 series if I have a GREAT room correction software with Duel subs Without an app feature??!?!
You'll probably be fine with just Dirac. If not, you can always add a MiniDSP 2x4 HD later. You can't get your money back that you spent on a sub with a bundled feature like the app/DSP. I'd wager most SVS owners use the app once or twice when they first get the sub, then leave it alone once it's all set up - same thing you do with a MiniDSP, only more expensive in exchange for the slight extra convenience of using your phone instead of a computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
The problem is even in Canada we cannot get a sub like the Oatlaw Ultra-and we are talking about Canada!!

SVS for some, is the only option for this price category...not PSU, not Rythmik, not Outlaw...
Check with PSA for shipping to Canada too, the owner recently mentioned that he has been getting surprisingly good shipping rates there. A pair of PSA 15 or 18 would blow the doors off the 2000s from SVS. It's not some fly-by-night company either, it was co-founded by the "V" in SVS.
PSA does NOT have Canadian distributers
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post #55 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
PSA does NOT have Canadian distributers
They are an ID sub company, they ARE the distributor. See 5. here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57104720
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post #56 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
1. No. No one does. Unless it's a slow seller.
2. If you are willing to drive to their headquarters, yes. So, not really.
3. Infrastructure. I don't think they have any more problems than anyone else. They just brought a bunch of stuff in house. Being big doesn't mean everything is always in stock. When I had a tweeter replaced by Klipsch under warranty, I had to to wait a month for it to come in stock. However, they did answer my email I made at 4 am at 9 am. Denon recently had problems with their x8500h's initial availability as you know.
4. Yes, they do trades.
5. Tom V is famous for being available almost 365 days a year, so yeah.

ID companies service can be pretty good. I've had Enrico of Rythmik answer my PM's in the middle of the night!

My only problem with SVS is they seem to be having an amp problem on their more expensive subwoofers. As has been mentioned, SVS caters to a slightly different crowd than the price/performance crowd(that would be me, I'm relatively poor), and that's perfectly fine with me.
Last point. And to be clear, I am not taking anything away from Tom V. He makes a solid product.

Re: ^^^:

bullet 1. (slow seller). I mentioned I was speaking to what happens in the long-run. Sure. In the short run, someone can deliver world class service on an ultra highend product while losing money.

bullet 2. I gave 5 examples of differences in service. Not driving to the factory. I wasn't talking about outliers or exceptions.
More people cost money ==(normally) better service.

bullet 3. (company size and Klipsch). Who said anything about the size of a company? But if in your example, if Klipsch had parts inventory on every driver, their costs would go up. If they have inventory all the time, costs go up. If they ship faster, costs go up. Often, I will take those trade-offs (less service for a better price).

bullet 4. (trades). I was talking in general terms. But since they take trades (better service), that costs $$'s. Free returns cost $$'s. A longer warranty for instance costs $$'s.

Bullet 5. Tom V (answering phones often). I applaud his work ethic! But better service would mean hiring more people so that more people can ask questions at once. Because he cannot talk with two or three people at once. If Denon (in your example) had more techs to answer the phones, that costs money. They are trying to hit blend of price, quality, and service. As I said, we all know of overpriced subs, projectors, processors that have lousy quality and service. So picking only one of three is all too common.

To reiterate, I have nothing but respect for Power Sound. I would not hesitate to own one. My point is he could cut his prices even more if he took away service or reduced the quality. It's why the SB4000 costs more than the SB16. It's why the SB4000 costs more than the SB13 Ultra.
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post #57 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
The problem is even in Canada we cannot get a sub like the Oatlaw Ultra-and we are talking about Canada!!

SVS for some, is the only option for this price category...not PSU, not Rythmik, not Outlaw...
WRONG

I live in Canada and i got the X12 shipped for $168 last year.
I grabbed it up when it was on sale for $579, taxes in it cost me $1050 CDN.
that's still $200 cheaper than the PB2000 in Canada.

FYI

PSA ships to Canada (no duties)
HSU ships to Canada
Rythmik ships to Canada (the actually have really good shipping prices to Canada)

i took the time to email/call all these companies and request quotes.
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post #58 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
In today's world app support for electronic gadgetry is no longer a feature. It is expected.



Peak output has always been the pinnacle of subworthiness around AVSforum, IMO to the detriment of other very important subwoofer qualities. Don't believe me? Head over to the DIY forums where the guy with the greatest number of 18" subs being powered by his own utility company substation is lauded as having the "best" setup. Now, I'm not saying rigs like that are bad...far from it, they are impressive, but measuring a product's value on output and distortion (or even decay, Xmax etc) alone is an injustice to that firm.
+1 ^^^. If the be-all end-all is output per dollar with good enough sound quality, we all could be in the subwoofer manufacturing business in a month.
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post #59 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
WRONG

I live in Canada and i got the X12 shipped for $168 last year.
I grabbed it up when it was on sale for $579, taxes in it cost me $1050 CDN.
that's still $200 cheaper than the PB2000 in Canada.

FYI

PSA ships to Canada (no duties)
HSU ships to Canada
Rythmik ships to Canada (the actually have really good shipping prices to Canada)

i took the time to email/call all these companies and request quotes.
The PB2000 can be had for $1000 including shipping in Canada.

My question would be what happens when you have a warranty issue?

With SVS I contact the Canadian distributor and it gets handled quickly, hassle free, with the same customer service as the home base in the US.

Who pays to have that X12 shipped back to the US? How quick does the problem get fixed and at what cost?

For many like me there is a value to convenience and customer service.
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post #60 of 282 Old 11-15-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
In today's world app support for electronic gadgetry is no longer a feature. It is expected.



Peak output has always been the pinnacle of subworthiness around AVSforum, IMO to the detriment of other very important subwoofer qualities. Don't believe me? Head over to the DIY forums where the guy with the greatest number of 18" subs being powered by his own utility company substation is lauded as having the "best" setup. Now, I'm not saying rigs like that are bad...far from it, they are impressive, but measuring a product's value on output and distortion (or even decay, Xmax etc) alone is an injustice to that firm.
Another big +++

Fact is 99% people on this forum don't run their subs close to the edge, so guess what - that 3-8dB difference in output, which is the *only* criteria discussed in 100000s of threads, is completely meaningless.

The subwoofer wars on Avs are insane. It has literally become a 'whos got the biggest' contest. In a blind test no one here can even tell the difference between the usual ID subs, as has been proven in many GtG's.
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