Just got a SVS PB-1000...but - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 11-29-2018, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Just got a SVS PB-1000...but

I just upgraded from (2) Polk PSW108s to a single PB-1000. The PB-1000 is corner loaded, front left of room, about 12ft from listening position. This is the only suitable location at this time.

Upon first listen...I wasn't blown away. I thought, based on reviews and posts here, that I would be floored by the difference. I wasn't. I actually have the gain (volume) past the 12 mark, probably around 1-2 o'clock and the AV setting at +2 dB. LPF of LFE set at default 120Hz. No EQ profiles set. AVR is Onkyo NR787.

I have a few thoughts:

1.) It's a new sub and needs to "loosen up" before I notice a difference?
2.) It's a cleaner, less boomy sound than 2 cheap subs?
3.) Going from 2 cheap subs to 1 "good" sub isn't a substantial change?

What do you all think? My room is roughly 1900 cubic feet, which is under the spec for the PB-1000 to my knowledge.

Thanks in advanced

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post #2 of 13 Old 11-29-2018, 09:56 AM
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try moving a few feet in several different directions to see if the sound is "different". Even better, play some bass sweeps and listen in a few different locations to see how "even" they sound in terms of volume... you are looking for peaks and nulls basically...

moving from 2 subs to 1 changes the interactions within the room, and you'll need to figure that out first... nulls and peaks are position dependent, and the only way to change them is with additional subs in different locations, changing listening position, changing the room, or changing the sub location...

i'm guessing a sub crawl is probably coming that might help find the best response for ya...

you could also check to see what level the AVR sets after auto setup... if it's not maxed out at +10-12, then you are getting enough output, but probably not hearing it evenly in the listening position due to room interactions...

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post #3 of 13 Old 11-29-2018, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the tips @jcr159

Additionally, I was just doing some reading online about subwoofer setup. The distance from the subwoofer in particular.

When I ran AccuEQ, it measured the sub at 13.9ft away when is is barely 12ft away...so I adjusted it down to 12ft. It seems (based on research) that auto setups always place the sub distance a few feet further away from left/right speakers even when they are next to each other.

What is the importance here and should I adjust the distance back to 13.9ft?

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post #4 of 13 Old 11-29-2018, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Rodeen View Post
I just upgraded from (2) Polk PSW108s to a single PB-1000. The PB-1000 is corner loaded, front left of room, about 12ft from listening position. This is the only suitable location at this time.



Upon first listen...I wasn't blown away. I thought, based on reviews and posts here, that I would be floored by the difference. I wasn't. I actually have the gain (volume) past the 12 mark, probably around 1-2 o'clock and the AV setting at +2 dB. LPF of LFE set at default 120Hz. No EQ profiles set. AVR is Onkyo NR787.



I have a few thoughts:



1.) It's a new sub and needs to "loosen up" before I notice a difference?

2.) It's a cleaner, less boomy sound than 2 cheap subs?

3.) Going from 2 cheap subs to 1 "good" sub isn't a substantial change?



What do you all think? My room is roughly 1900 cubic feet, which is under the spec for the PB-1000 to my knowledge.



Thanks in advanced


It’s likely number 2, but you need to confirm that the placement for the sub is the best through either a sub craw or measuring with REW. You need to see what you are hearing and ensure the placement is optimized and you are not sitting in a null. Then also ensure your set up on AVR and sub is correct.


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post #5 of 13 Old 11-29-2018, 10:15 AM
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Good advice from jcr159 already.

Sub position and MLP location to a room are two of the most important first steps (before) any room calibration. Have a read on Mikes thread above^^^ (Guide To Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preference). Loads of quality info there.

As for distance the avr sets the sub at,,,, that also needs adjustment. Most of the time adjustments for distance are (added) not subtracted. Play the same demo tracks (or use a tone generator) and adjust till it sounds the best to you, or measure if you have the equipment. Sub crawl first before anything. And make sure your MLP is not located in the center of the room.
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post #6 of 13 Old 11-29-2018, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Rodeen View Post
Thank you for the tips @jcr159

Additionally, I was just doing some reading online about subwoofer setup. The distance from the subwoofer in particular.

When I ran AccuEQ, it measured the sub at 13.9ft away when is is barely 12ft away...so I adjusted it down to 12ft. It seems (based on research) that auto setups always place the sub distance a few feet further away from left/right speakers even when they are next to each other.

What is the importance here and should I adjust the distance back to 13.9ft?
That's because the DSP in the subwoofer creates a tiny delay before you get the output from the subwoofer. The distance of the sub measured by the AVR SHOULD be higher than the actual distance. Change it back to 13.9ft
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post #7 of 13 Old 11-29-2018, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Good advice from jcr159 already.

Sub position and MLP location to a room are two of the most important first steps (before) any room calibration. Have a read on Mikes thread above^^^ (Guide To Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preference). Loads of quality info there.

As for distance the avr sets the sub at,,,, that also needs adjustment. Most of the time adjustments for distance are (added) not subtracted. Play the same demo tracks (or use a tone generator) and adjust till it sounds the best to you, or measure if you have the equipment. Sub crawl first before anything. And make sure your MLP is not located in the center of the room.

Reminded me of another thing to watch out for... dead center in the room will be bad, as likely right up against the back wall will be...

Multiple subs will almost always even things out, hence you may not have had as much issue before even though you are likely able to produce much more and much lower output now...

Bass is tricky.... dang, that would have been a cool handle! Oh well, and good luck....


One more tip... there are websites that let you generate bass sweeps... take any phone/tablet and get a sweep from 20-160hz, plug the headphone jack into a cable that conveys to RCA and plug right into the sub. Then you can crawl/move around listening to the sweep on repeat to find where it sounds most even volume wise. You also eliminate any effects from the Onkyo that way...

And finally, check your setup to make sure your speakers are all set to small... otherwise you are blending bass from all your speakers and subs, and that tends to work poorly without a lot of work....
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-29-2018, 02:34 PM
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Just got a SVS PB-1000...but

Don’t decrease the sub distance set by the AVR. It allows for any delay. Also, with the PB-1000 set around 1-2 o’clock it should come back around -9 to -8db in the AVR (that’s about the goal anyway). Then you can bump it up 3db to around -6 to -5db and be fine. You never want to go past -1.0db.. stay out of the positive.


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post #9 of 13 Old 11-29-2018, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Good advice from jcr159 already.

Sub position and MLP location to a room are two of the most important first steps (before) any room calibration. Have a read on Mikes thread above^^^ (Guide To Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preference). Loads of quality info there.

As for distance the avr sets the sub at,,,, that also needs adjustment. Most of the time adjustments for distance are (added) not subtracted. Play the same demo tracks (or use a tone generator) and adjust till it sounds the best to you, or measure if you have the equipment. Sub crawl first before anything. And make sure your MLP is not located in the center of the room.

Very big +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Rodeen View Post
I just upgraded from (2) Polk PSW108s to a single PB-1000. The PB-1000 is corner loaded, front left of room, about 12ft from listening position. This is the only suitable location at this time.

Upon first listen...I wasn't blown away. I thought, based on reviews and posts here, that I would be floored by the difference. I wasn't. I actually have the gain (volume) past the 12 mark, probably around 1-2 o'clock and the AV setting at +2 dB. LPF of LFE set at default 120Hz. No EQ profiles set. AVR is Onkyo NR787.

I have a few thoughts:

1.) It's a new sub and needs to "loosen up" before I notice a difference?
2.) It's a cleaner, less boomy sound than 2 cheap subs?
3.) Going from 2 cheap subs to 1 "good" sub isn't a substantial change?

What do you all think? My room is roughly 1900 cubic feet, which is under the spec for the PB-1000 to my knowledge.

Thanks in advanced
As the quote above yours, from indebtbassfreak. Location of your sub/s and your MLP, are the most important think to figure. Before doing a calibration. the thread he was referring too, is this one;
Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

Take your time to read-it slowly, and a few time.
Not only it talk about how sound react within a room. It also show that different setting from your AVR and sub/s will affect the sound. Lot's of info to digest, but definably worth reading, since no room interact the same!
I have been in Hobby for around 40 years, and did learn a few things myself


Ray

Last edited by darthray; 11-29-2018 at 03:55 PM.
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post #10 of 13 Old 11-30-2018, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

Thank you to all. I will take what I can from the suggestions. However, let me say this...

1) I feel that the "sub crawl" is the dumbest thing ever. Let's say for example, I do the sub crawl and it sounds best in the center of my room. That's where I should put it? That isn't doable for most people and it would look terrible. You always see setups with subs either in the corners or next to the L/R speaker. Never randomly placed on the floor. Or maybe, I don't understand the "crawl"?

2) The idea to not have your MLP in the center of the room is weird to me. Once again, this is not doable. Unless you are building a home cinema from bare bones and with endless funds, it's very difficult to meet this criteria. Most rooms position the screen in the center and the seating is centered on that. Are you sitting at an angle just to get better bass response?

My PB-1000 is corner loaded 12ft diagonally to the left of the MLP and is in the only spot I can put it without a wireless transmitter. With wireless, I could do right rear only, as the left rear is blocked by a seating riser. I appreciate the input, but just want to say that not everyone on AVS Forums have endless room configurations and money. Maybe it's my fault, I should have been more clear of my situation.

In the end, the sub sounds great now due to your helpful suggestions.
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post #11 of 13 Old 11-30-2018, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Rodeen View Post
Thank you to all. I will take what I can from the suggestions. However, let me say this...



1) I feel that the "sub crawl" is the dumbest thing ever. Let's say for example, I do the sub crawl and it sounds best in the center of my room. That's where I should put it? That isn't doable for most people and it would look terrible. You always see setups with subs either in the corners or next to the L/R speaker. Never randomly placed on the floor. Or maybe, I don't understand the "crawl"?



2) The idea to not have your MLP in the center of the room is weird to me. Once again, this is not doable. Unless you are building a home cinema from bare bones and with endless funds, it's very difficult to meet this criteria. Most rooms position the screen in the center and the seating is centered on that. Are you sitting at an angle just to get better bass response?



My PB-1000 is corner loaded 12ft diagonally to the left of the MLP and is in the only spot I can put it without a wireless transmitter. With wireless, I could do right rear only, as the left rear is blocked by a seating riser. I appreciate the input, but just want to say that not everyone on AVS Forums have endless room configurations and money. Maybe it's my fault, I should have been more clear of my situation.



In the end, the sub sounds great now due to your helpful suggestions.


We have to make compromises but the facts are the facts based on how sound waves work. Once you understand that you make the best of what you can. Very few if any have the ideal set up, room, equipment.


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post #12 of 13 Old 11-30-2018, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Rodeen View Post
Thank you to all. I will take what I can from the suggestions. However, let me say this...

1) I feel that the "sub crawl" is the dumbest thing ever. Let's say for example, I do the sub crawl and it sounds best in the center of my room. That's where I should put it? That isn't doable for most people and it would look terrible. You always see setups with subs either in the corners or next to the L/R speaker. Never randomly placed on the floor. Or maybe, I don't understand the "crawl"?

2) The idea to not have your MLP in the center of the room is weird to me. Once again, this is not doable. Unless you are building a home cinema from bare bones and with endless funds, it's very difficult to meet this criteria. Most rooms position the screen in the center and the seating is centered on that. Are you sitting at an angle just to get better bass response?

My PB-1000 is corner loaded 12ft diagonally to the left of the MLP and is in the only spot I can put it without a wireless transmitter. With wireless, I could do right rear only, as the left rear is blocked by a seating riser. I appreciate the input, but just want to say that not everyone on AVS Forums have endless room configurations and money. Maybe it's my fault, I should have been more clear of my situation.

In the end, the sub sounds great now due to your helpful suggestions.

1. I get where you are coming from.... the “crawl” is useful to listen to how the response varies in your own room based on listening position. The other way to use it is to put the sub in your MLP, then listen only in possible placement locations. You then pick whichever sounds most even knowing you have comprise.

2. No theater typically has the MLP in the very center of the room. Half dimensions of any dimensions are the worst for nulls and peaks... just the way waves work... Physics... it’s the law... 😉. That said moving the MLP even a foot forward or behind the exact halfway point is enough to mitigate the issues. Back wall seats are usually harder to deal with as pulling a couch forward a foot usually looks weird.

3. Sounds like you got a lot of improvement with some tweaks which is awesome. If you like how it sounds, 2 thumbs up! That’s all that matters.

I think everyone here was just trying to point out that the SVS sub should be more than adequate, and you likely had differences in setup and room interactions that you can optimize, but that a different sub wouldn’t fix... 2 or more subs on the other hand change the way things interact and it’s a different story.

But super happy you worked out your setup! (And enjoy the extra octave of output down low!)
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post #13 of 13 Old 11-30-2018, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Rodeen View Post
T2) The idea to not have your MLP in the center of the room is weird to me. Once again, this is not doable. Unless you are building a home cinema from bare bones and with endless funds, it's very difficult to meet this criteria. Most rooms position the screen in the center and the seating is centered on that. Are you sitting at an angle just to get better bass response?
You can have your MLP centered in relation to the width of the room, that is not the issue...you do not want it centered in relation to the length. The optimum location for the MLP is 1/5-1/3 of the length of the room from the back wall. For example, if your room is 15' long = 3'-5' from the back wall.
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