Looking to upgrade from dayton 1200's - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 12-06-2018, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking to upgrade from dayton 1200's

I have a 13' x 16' x 8' living room with a 7.2 setup. There is a 7' x 7' entry leading to the rest of the house. Sony str-dn1080 receiver. Speakers are pioneer sp-fs52 towers, pioneer sp-c22 center, dayton b652 air surrounds and front heights, 2 dayton SUB-1200's.

Iv'e had it this way for a few years and I feel like some better subs will really wake it up. I listen to some music but most of the time its movies and games. Not really sure on budget. $500-$800? Any suggestions would be great.
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post #2 of 21 Old 12-06-2018, 04:34 PM
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If you can spend:
- $500 per sub (incl. shipping), consider a pair of SVS PB-1000 or Monoprice Monolith 10";
- $800 total (incl. shipping), consider a pair of RSL Speedwoofer 10S.
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post #3 of 21 Old 12-06-2018, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtheis0313 View Post
I have a 13' x 16' x 8' living room with a 7.2 setup. There is a 7' x 7' entry leading to the rest of the house. Sony str-dn1080 receiver. Speakers are pioneer sp-fs52 towers, pioneer sp-c22 center, dayton b652 air surrounds and front heights, 2 dayton SUB-1200's.

Iv'e had it this way for a few years and I feel like some better subs will really wake it up. I listen to some music but most of the time its movies and games. Not really sure on budget. $500-$800? Any suggestions would be great.
<900 = vtf-3
< 800 = mono12thx, pb/pc 2000 or vtf2
< 900 duals = pb1000, pb12nsd, mono10thx


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post #4 of 21 Old 12-06-2018, 04:36 PM
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Check out Hsu Research, Monoprice Monolith, and SVS. One large sub from these sellers will be a significant improvement over the Daytons. You may be able to get 2 Hsu Research VTf-1's pithing your budget if you want to stay with duals.
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post #5 of 21 Old 12-06-2018, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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would like to stay with duels but idk. looking for a night and day difference. Would like to stay around $500. Could diy too.
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post #6 of 21 Old 12-06-2018, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I see the Klipsch r-120sw are $269 each on sale. Could afford 2. Most people say to stay away tho
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post #7 of 21 Old 12-07-2018, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtheis0313 View Post
I see the Klipsch r-120sw are $269 each on sale. Could afford 2. Most people say to stay away tho
IMHO I don't think you can buy a pair of better subs for $500 (for both?). I also don't think you would be happy using your entire $500 budget on a single sub as there are many benefits you are reaping now with using two subs. you may end up suddenly with a bunch of "nulls" in your room.

You could always try out the Klipsch and see how you like them but to be honest with you I think it will be a marginal upgrade and not the night and day difference you are looking for.
Another thing that could help you is by looking for something ported to help with providing additional output.

It may be difficult even going the DIY route for an upgrade. In order to get you to the next level you should probably expect around $150/driver + $150 for knockdowns + $150 or more for a suitable amp + tools and supplies. That already brings you to $450/sub. I would definitely recommend that you check over in the DIY forums though as I am no expert in DIY (or anything audio for that matter).

Best of luck to you and please let us know what you decide.
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post #8 of 21 Old 12-07-2018, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtheis0313 View Post
I have a 13' x 16' x 8' living room with a 7.2 setup. There is a 7' x 7' entry leading to the rest of the house. Sony str-dn1080 receiver. Speakers are pioneer sp-fs52 towers, pioneer sp-c22 center, dayton b652 air surrounds and front heights, 2 dayton SUB-1200's.

Iv'e had it this way for a few years and I feel like some better subs will really wake it up. I listen to some music but most of the time its movies and games. Not really sure on budget. $500-$800? Any suggestions would be great.

Ok, so to give you some background on my setup. I used to have a 7.2 setup with an Onkyo 808 AVR and Bic Acoustech speakers PL89 X 2, PL 28 X 1, PL 66 X 4 and Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus Subs X 2. For certain reasons I had to sell that setup 4 years ago. Currently I have a 7.2 setup with a Denon AVR X3400H, Dayton Audion B652 Air Speakers x 7 and Dayton Audio Sub 1200 x 2. My room is 15' W x 20' L x 8' H with a 4' W floor to ceiling opening to the rest of the house. I'm saying all that to say that I understand the setup you have and that you want a better bass experience. The Dayton Sub 1200 are really amazing subs for the price. They aren't overly powerful but they get loud enough and they don't dig deep, but what they do play they play very well and very clean. Those Dayton Speakers and Subs are very highly reviewed for the price. SO if you really want an upgrade worth spending money on then you are going to have to spend a minimum of $500 per sub x 2. I am also wanting to upgrade my subs and want to end up with same or better bass experience than the dual Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus subs I had.

My list of possible subs to purchase for a MAX of $1,500 for duals is: (I am also recommending that this be your list as well)

1. Monoprice Monolith THX Ultra 12
2. Hsu Research VTF2 MK5
3. Outlaw Audio Ultra X12 (only if its on the Black Friday Sale)
4. SVS PB/PC 2000
5. Rythmik Audio LVX 12

Shawn

Last edited by flickhtguru; 12-07-2018 at 03:00 AM.
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post #9 of 21 Old 12-07-2018, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtheis0313
would like to stay with duels but idk. looking for a night and day difference. Would like to stay around $500. ...
A single SVS PB-1000 or PB12-NSD or Monoprice Monolith 10" will be a night-and-day difference compared to your current subs: You'll get more overall output and noticeably better/deeper extension.

I'd start with one and double up if/when you feel the need. (If you do feel it, you'll have a pair of great subs; if you don't feel it, you'll still have a great sub.
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post #10 of 21 Old 12-07-2018, 09:48 PM
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For the money, it's hard to beat the SVS PB-NSD. This sub won't be available for long as SVS seems to bring them out only for the holidays.
They are already gone on the SVS website but are available on Amazon.
Ported PB-NSD $500: https://www.amazon.com/BYL-sub-10-12...svs+subwoofers
Sealed SB-NSD $400: https://www.amazon.com/SVS-SB12-NSD-...svs+subwoofers

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post #11 of 21 Old 12-08-2018, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtheis0313 View Post
would like to stay with duels but idk. looking for a night and day difference. Would like to stay around $500. Could diy too.
I have used the Dayton Sub-1500 for a 2.1 set up as well as a 5.1.2 for HT and my understanding is the Sub-1200 and 1500 are fairly similar. The 1500 does fine for those applications but runs out of steam at about 30 hz. I also have had the RSL Speedwoofer 10S (punchy little bugger), SVS SB12-NSD and PB12-NSD. Then I got into DIY and things got a little more serious
In my experience, for $500 you cannot beat the bulletproof VBSS subs (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...gn-thread.html)

The performance difference between ANY of the subs listed above is night and day. The closest would be the PB12-NSD but there is still so much more output with the VBSS's. Plus you end up with two 18", high efficiency subs with variable tuning options .
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post #12 of 21 Old 12-08-2018, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Well it seems like I'll be waiting a while. Thanks for all your suggestions. Maybe I'll by myself a new recliner for Christmas. If/when i upgrade the hsu will be at the top of my list.
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-25-2020, 08:18 AM
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Reviving this old thread to solicit recommendations to upgrade from my Dayton 1200 subs. Initially had two 1200’s and feel I made the mistake of buying another two so I could get better bass. Two more subs helped, don’t get me wrong, but more isn’t necessarily better—I want the right sub or dual subs to get tighter, punchier bass that hit those low frequencies. Want to really feel that bass for movies mostly, minimally music.

My home theater room is 15.0 ft wide x 16.4 ft long. My present 7.4.4 audio set-up includes:
- 2x Pioneer FS52 towers for fronts
- Pioneer C22 center
- 4x Pioneer BS22 surrounds and surround backs
- 4x Sonace 6 1/2” ceiling heights
- 4x Dayton Audio 1200 subwoofers (2x front, 2x back)

Room pic 1 | pic 2 | pic 3

What would be your recommendations for a sub or dual subs for my set-up? My budget is $2K total. Thanks.

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post #14 of 21 Old 05-25-2020, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
What would be your recommendations for a sub or dual subs for my set-up? My budget is $2K total. Thanks.
from the way you talked about your process it seems like you have a specific sound level in mind. You might want to pick the sound level instead of the budget.

Having said that, go with one sub until you figure out how much is enough. Get the biggest you can afford and hope it is too much.

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post #15 of 21 Old 05-25-2020, 08:48 AM
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It's more the quality of the bass and being able to feel those low frequencies (below 30Hz). The Daytons are nice for the cheap price, but feel more one-dimensional, now just more amplified with 4x vs 2x subs.

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post #16 of 21 Old 05-25-2020, 10:24 AM
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SVS has in-home trials with free shipping and free returns. You could also use BBs return policy and get them from the store to see if this level of sub is worth it.
SVS outlet has PB-2000 or PC-2000 for $700, or PB-1000 might save a little money if needed per suggestions below.
(btw, check local sale sites like CL or FB marketplace. Since SVS redesigned their 12" subs multiple times recently, discontinued models may show up cheap).

One PC-2000 could possibly outperform all of the SUB-1200s combined (and certainly reaches lower), but may not have even bass across the room, so consider multiple subs, as you've done already.
Of course you can use your existing SUB-1200s to supplement anything you buy.

Your front speakers may be overmatched by new subs. Consider upgrading them, especially the center channel.
The center channel gets most of the surround signal, and most of the dialog. The Pioneer AJ C22 is known as a potential weak link, especially for dialog.

Consider the following:
2x SVS PC-2000, and put them in the front corners for boundary reinforcement. Move the towers in and/or to the front a little to accommodate them.
Use your 4 existing SUB-1200s underneath your satellites (you'll need to replace or modify the stands as a permanent solution, but some books may work for a test). The corner locations are ideal for boundary reinforcement.
(In fact, you may notice a difference now just moving your existing subs to the corners, especially the front ones up onto the riser, and recalibrating room correction).
If 6(!) subs take up too much space, take out some or all of the SUB-1200s.
Get a DSP solution and a microphone to help integrate all of your subs (Maybe something from MiniDSP.com).

You probably have enough left over within budget to get a decent center channel speaker (search the speaker forum for suggestions).
Start saving for replacing the front towers (and possibly the center if not bought now), or you could get a little money back by going with PB-1000s instead.
For the towers, I'd suggest looking for towers with at least 6.5" drivers, 8ohm impedance and relatively high sensitivity. If you're going to keep them tucked in the corner, look for front ports instead of rear. Otherwise move them away from the walls a bit.
For the center, remember that voice clarity is the main purpose of the speaker. If possible, a 3-way speaker or one with a horn or ribbon tends to help. If ported, try to find one on the front, and if on the back, keep enough room from the walls. Many are sealed.

Hsu, Rythmik, Monolith and others may offer ideal subs, but going with SVS lets you try without risk, as you can return them if you don't like them, and upgrade if you want within policy.
Of course, if you really like the other options, return the SVS and buy them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
Reviving this old thread to solicit recommendations to upgrade from my Dayton 1200 subs. Initially had two 1200’s and feel I made the mistake of buying another two so I could get better bass. Two more subs helped, don’t get me wrong, but more isn’t necessarily better—I want the right sub or dual subs to get tighter, punchier bass that hit those low frequencies. Want to really feel that bass for movies mostly, minimally music.

My home theater room is 15.0 ft wide x 16.4 ft long. My present 7.4.4 audio set-up includes:
- 2x Pioneer FS52 towers for fronts
- Pioneer C22 center
- 4x Pioneer BS22 surrounds and surround backs
- 4x Sonace 6 1/2” ceiling heights
- 4x Dayton Audio 1200 subwoofers (2x front, 2x back)

Room pic 1 | pic 2 | pic 3

What would be your recommendations for a sub or dual subs for my set-up? My budget is $2K total. Thanks.
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post #17 of 21 Old 05-25-2020, 01:09 PM
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Thanks @philpoe, good stuff to consider. Didn't know Pioneer AJ C22 was considered a weak link. I do like the AJ towers and the bookshelfs.


On subs, thoughts on dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's?

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post #18 of 21 Old 05-25-2020, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
Reviving this old thread to solicit recommendations to upgrade from my Dayton 1200 subs. Initially had two 1200’s and feel I made the mistake of buying another two so I could get better bass. Two more subs helped, don’t get me wrong, but more isn’t necessarily better—I want the right sub or dual subs to get tighter, punchier bass that hit those low frequencies. Want to really feel that bass for movies mostly, minimally music.

My home theater room is 15.0 ft wide x 16.4 ft long. My present 7.4.4 audio set-up includes:
- 2x Pioneer FS52 towers for fronts
- Pioneer C22 center
- 4x Pioneer BS22 surrounds and surround backs
- 4x Sonace 6 1/2” ceiling heights
- 4x Dayton Audio 1200 subwoofers (2x front, 2x back)

Room pic 1 | pic 2 | pic 3

What would be your recommendations for a sub or dual subs for my set-up? My budget is $2K total. Thanks.

How about dual Rythmik L22?

I rcommend ask around in Rythmik owner's thread, there are very helpful people there. I have LV12F and I'm really happy with my purchase. Rythmik are very well engineered subs and value is amazing.
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post #19 of 21 Old 05-25-2020, 09:52 PM
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Dual VTF-3 Mk5 would be great, but if you have a hard budget, you can't ignore the $192 shipping and handling, so $1741 delivered. Not a lot of room left for a center upgrade and/or DSPs.
If you try the SVS models and like them, but want a little more, you could return them and commit to the Hsu's, at least you'll have some idea what you're getting into. There are options from Rythmik to consider as well.
If the SVS scratches the itch, stick with them and save a little money. That $341 difference can be applied to a center channel and/or DSPs to tie your subs together.
SVS gives a risk-free upgrade that's very substantial over the SUB-1200s. The other brands may or may not be worth the upgrade, but you'd have to commit without the convenience of a risk-free trial.
Even the PB-1000 is a substantial upgrade, and would save more money, but the PC-2000 may be worth it as it reaches a little lower and takes less floor space than the PB-2000, for not a ton more money than the PB-1000.
The value proposition that SVS offers is that you can compare without anxiety. They factored that into the price.

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On subs, thoughts on dual HSU VTF-3 MK5's?
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post #20 of 21 Old 05-26-2020, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
It's more the quality of the bass and being able to feel those low frequencies (below 30Hz). The Daytons are nice for the cheap price, but feel more one-dimensional, now just more amplified with 4x vs 2x subs.
Brajesh, I am working through something similar to you. Have you done any measurements in room to see if your subs are placed optimally? You may want to download the software REW, it is free. And also find some tutorials on using it. That way you can have real world in-room measurements for your set-up. This will help you figure out what your in room bass performance is and guide your sub purchasing decisions. I am just beginning to work through this myself, so will be happy to share what I learn. May take me a couple of weeks to play with the software. Also there are good threads on here about sub and bass calibration so I would give them a good read.

After that might help guide your decision.

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post #21 of 21 Old 05-26-2020, 03:02 PM
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Thanks @DrJayDub, wasn't aware of REW... I'll try it. My current placement of subs was just a guess.

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