Why don't we see more Cylinder designs? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 52 Old 02-04-2019, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Why don't we see more Cylinder designs?

Confession: I'm a tube head. I have a small tube amplifier for my 2 channel listening, an all tube 1979 Marshall JMP 2203 guitar amplifier and dual cylinders in the SVS variety - PC12 NSD and PC13 Ultra. HAHA!

Now, HSU used to make some cylinders back in the day, but it seems only SVS makes cylinder subs for home theater.

With subs fighting for real estate, I'm a bit surprised other IS subwoofer makers don't offer a cylinder sub.

I want to upgrade my PC13 but I cant. The PC4000 is a lateral move.

I would love a 15" monster cylinder. There's no competition in the cylinder world and it looks like in order for me to get 15 or 18" woofer I need to buy a space hogging box. I love how my cylinders just disappear beside my 110 screen and takes up no space.

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post #2 of 52 Old 02-04-2019, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
Confession: I'm a tube head. I have a small tube amplifier for my 2 channel listening, an all tube 1979 Marshall JMP 2203 guitar amplifier and dual cylinders in the SVS variety - PC12 NSD and PC13 Ultra.

Now, HSU used to make some cylinders back in the day, but it seems only DVD makes cylinder subs for home theater.

With subs fighting for real estate, I'm a bit surprised other IS subwoofer makers don't offer a cylinder sub.

I want to upgrade my PC13 but I cant. The PC4000 is a lateral move.

I would love a 15" monster cylinder. There's no competition in the cylinder world and it looks like in order for me to get 15 or 18" woofer I need to buy a space hogging box. I love how my cylinders just disappear beside my 110 screen and takes up no space.
I have never seen much written about these but they always looked interesting.

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post #3 of 52 Old 02-04-2019, 08:26 AM
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SVS themselves said that cylinder subs has dropped in sales significantly in recent years. Why make more of what people aren't buying? To waste resources and warehouse space? That's not how manufacturing business works mate.

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post #4 of 52 Old 02-04-2019, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I kind of figured that was the case. I just figured someone would take a crack at a 15" cylinder.
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post #5 of 52 Old 02-04-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
I kind of figured that was the case. I just figured someone would take a crack at a 15" cylinder.
15 inch woofer size?

so 18 inch minimum on the tube OD. That's getting up there in size. I don't know if you have ever seen a 16" next to a 18" but the 18 looks much larger.

Of course then there's the good old 30" ID tubes...they just disappear into the room...

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post #6 of 52 Old 02-04-2019, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
SVS themselves said that cylinder subs has dropped in sales significantly in recent years. Why make more of what people aren't buying? To waste resources and warehouse space? That's not how manufacturing business works mate.
If the SVS cylinders have dropped in sales significantly, why did they put the research and development into the PC-4000? That couldn't have been a cheap endeavor. Also, the PC-4000 were on back order for a while this past January. At $1800 new, that's not cheap for something that isn't selling well, wouldn't they lower the price to move them and increase sales?
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post #7 of 52 Old 02-04-2019, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
I kind of figured that was the case. I just figured someone would take a crack at a 15" cylinder.
Get Sonotubular, and
Cylinderize it yourself.
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post #8 of 52 Old 02-04-2019, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
I kind of figured that was the case. I just figured someone would take a crack at a 15" cylinder.
15 inch woofer size?

so 18 inch minimum on the tube OD. That's getting up there in size. I don't know if you have ever seen a 16" next to a 18" but the 18 looks much larger.

Of course then there's the good old 30" ID tubes...they just disappear into the room...

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Wow! The 18 looks nuts!!!

15" woofer might be tolerable.

Lol @ "disappears into the room"

The 18 Looks like the Saturn V rocket after separation.

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post #9 of 52 Old 02-05-2019, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
15 inch woofer size?

so 18 inch minimum on the tube OD. That's getting up there in size. I don't know if you have ever seen a 16" next to a 18" but the 18 looks much larger.

Of course then there's the good old 30" ID tubes...they just disappear into the room...

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Hmm, what's that round thing among the remotes? Must be a sono-tweeter? :P
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post #10 of 52 Old 02-05-2019, 11:22 AM
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Hmm, what's that round thing among the remotes? Must be a sono-tweeter? :P
Flashlight. Always keep one nearby. Remember this is back late 1990s when we didn't have 95% efficient 10,000w amps available at kmart..

Rocking the dreamcast back then too.

You can also see a 3051 audiocontrol SPL meter. Mic is under the fold down table on the sofa. I would spin that sideways so I could see it from the picture window. Run some sweeps and go outside and press on the window. I could see the meter jumping from 144-145 to 148-150.

Other fun details. I had 8(?)) tts in the sofa too(you can see a spare sitting on top/left. They never seem to add much when you have 140dB of headroom though.

Rear center matrixed with a lex cp-3. Main preamp back then was a dc-1 upgraded with the new bass enhance stuff.

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PR cylinder mid back wall.

huge cylinder in corner is 30 inch ID.
4th from right is the PR, 18 inch ID.(pr is 15").

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post #11 of 52 Old 02-05-2019, 11:37 AM
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ROFL! I should have known better, thought I spotted a small bong :P

You were hitting 150 in a *house*??? I'm amazed but not surprised.
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post #12 of 52 Old 02-05-2019, 10:26 PM
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I am currently using a tall 25" diameter sonosub with dual opposed FTW-21's - it takes up reasonable floor space and puts out just a little bass 😉
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post #13 of 52 Old 02-06-2019, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I am currently using a tall 25" diameter sonosub with dual opposed FTW-21's - it takes up reasonable floor space and puts out just a little bass 😉
Pics or it didn't happen.

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post #14 of 52 Old 02-06-2019, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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This DIY next to the PC13 Ultra always kicks my butt.



And these two monsters Steve Callas made years ago are crazy but cool.
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post #15 of 52 Old 02-06-2019, 07:58 AM
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I had 4 monster 18 inch driver Sonos as well. Tuned to 12 hz. They were 6 feet tall and 26 inch round. They were behind my screen so I never even covered them.

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post #16 of 52 Old 02-06-2019, 07:26 PM
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Pics or it didn't happen.
Yes, it did happen👍
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post #17 of 52 Old 02-06-2019, 07:37 PM
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Yes, it did happen👍
Deep fake!!!!
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post #18 of 52 Old 02-06-2019, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
If the SVS cylinders have dropped in sales significantly, why did they put the research and development into the PC-4000
Isn't that the same as the sister square models, except for the enclosure? That means not much additional development at all.

Cylinders make excellent enclosures for speakers, due to the way they react to internal pressure. I think falling sales are because people think they look weird, because in most people's room they won't really disappear. Though it does make me realize I have a corner behind a French door where the cylinder would e just the ticket.
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post #19 of 52 Old 02-07-2019, 07:10 AM
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Deep fake!!!!
It is very, very real😀

It is also amazing how unobtrusive this 25" x 54" 15 cubic foot enclosure looks (when covered in triple black velvet and tucked into a corner).
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post #20 of 52 Old 02-07-2019, 07:41 AM
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I recently came across this thread. Really nice integration of enormous DIY sonotube into living room.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...x30ft-3-a.html
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post #21 of 52 Old 02-07-2019, 09:27 AM
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Yeah, i got DIY sonosubs too Dual opposed SI18HT’s in 9.2ft3 sealed sonos.


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post #22 of 52 Old 02-27-2019, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
SVS themselves said that cylinder subs has dropped in sales significantly in recent years. Why make more of what people aren't buying? To waste resources and warehouse space? That's not how manufacturing business works mate.
I'm not saying you or SVS is incorrect, but I've always been irritated by this concept. When Ford only made black Model T's, guess what color everyone bought?

Sales dip on cylinders, so the manufacturers design fewer cylinders...


You can see this in many consumer trends, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
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post #23 of 52 Old 02-28-2019, 02:54 AM
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To my knowledge SVS has never released any sales data so no one outside of SVS knows whats selling or not.

I was watching the outlet for a PC4000 since December and not a single unit became available and there was a constant turnover of product there, what was in numerous supply was the sealed units. Plenty of sealed units always available in the outlet which may or may not tell us something. Also, while the PC400 was a no show in the outlet there was also a back order on them for most of January as SVS was trying to fill demand. Another dealer, Crutchfield, commonly advertised the SVS cylinders as low stock or out of stock, so someone is buying the cylinders and I would not be surprised to see other sub manufacturers coming to the market with cylinders in the next few years.
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post #24 of 52 Old 02-28-2019, 01:48 PM
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My 2nd PC-4000 arrives next week. I've been watching stock since I bought my first unit last June. I wanted to wait until 2019, but BB delisted them for a couple weeks when they were backordered. BB is one of the few places that has free shipping to Hawaii for oversized items. One PC-4000 is great so two should be even better. Just had to pass WAF since she thought it was too loud already. I'd never get those Sonosubs pass the wife.
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post #25 of 52 Old 02-28-2019, 10:09 PM
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I love my cylinder subwoofers. They take up less floor space than comparable box subwoofers, and are lighter and easier to move (both because of weight, and because the cylinder shape is easy to grab). I got rid of my box subwoofers and only have cylinder ones now. I don't feel the need to upgrade, so what I want is of little interest to manufacturers, though if I ever needed to replace a subwoofer, I would only consider a cylinder model, and would buy a used cylinder before going with a box model from anyone, if they stop making cylinder subwoofers.

I think most people don't try them and so they don't realize how great they are. They buy a box because that is what they are used to thinking of, and then it takes up more floor space than a cylinder that would perform as well. Or they settle for a lesser subwoofer because of their floorspace, not thinking about the fact that the space above a subwoofer is typically just wasted space.

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post #26 of 52 Old 03-03-2019, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by head_unit View Post
...Though it does make me realize I have a corner behind a French door where the cylinder would e just the ticket.
Which come to think of it makes me ask, is anyone doing cylinders besides SVS? (OK, Bazooka, but those are for car and sound horribly boomy due to their tuning).
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post #27 of 52 Old 03-03-2019, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by head_unit View Post
Which come to think of it makes me ask, is anyone doing cylinders besides SVS? (OK, Bazooka, but those are for car and sound horribly boomy due to their tuning).
I don't know if he is still active and producing but you can try to reach out:

http://www.bossobass.com/Bossobass.com/Home.html
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post #28 of 52 Old 03-03-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
I recently came across this thread. Really nice integration of enormous DIY sonotube into living room.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...x30ft-3-a.html
That example is really getting the most use of the floor space:




Most people just waste the space above their subwoofers. I do that with my cylinders, as they are not nearly as tall as the ceiling. But I am wasting far less space than most, as they do stick up a bit. It makes me wish some company would make about 7' models, as that would be about as tall as would be practical in most homes with a standard 8' ceiling.

I think if I were ever to build my own, I would follow the example above, to maximize the volume of the cabinet for the amount of floor space used.
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post #29 of 52 Old 03-03-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RobZL1 View Post
Sales dip on cylinders, so the manufacturers design fewer cylinders...
You can see this in many consumer trends, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Define "dip"?

Increasing lose (percentage) in sales versus box subs annually perhaps dating back to 2001-2002. Would that be a "dip"?

Cylinders are more costly to design and more costly to assemble as well.

And there's a dozen other factors. You design a box and want a variety of finish options? Make one phone call to the factory and tell them. Good luck getting a nice wood veneer on a production cylinder.

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post #30 of 52 Old 03-03-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
...
Cylinders are more costly to design and more costly to assemble as well.

...
If that were true, why is it that SVS cylinder subwoofers have, in the past, generally been less expensive than the comparable SVS box subwoofers? I see with the current lineup at SVS, they cost about the same. If they were more expensive to design and build, wouldn't SVS charge more for them than they do for the boxes? Or are you telling us that the people at SVS are incompetent business people, who are unaware of how they should price their subwoofers?

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