Hooking a Modern Sub to Older Receiver - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Spassvogel42
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spassvogel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Hooking a Modern Sub to Older Receiver

My older Pioneer Elite receiver doesn't have woofer outputs...is there a way to hook it to a sub that has L and R RCA-style inputs? Or am I just SOL?



Thanks!
Spassvogel42 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 06:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Blacklightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Edmonton,AB Canada
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 998 Post(s)
Liked: 852
My Paradigm Servo 15 came with a X-20 unit that can take the speakers level in and feed the sub while at the same time remove the bass from the speakers. This worked better for me than my Old Marantz's AVR with bass management. HSU (I think) has a pricey unit like this but I think monoprice or some company like them have a cheaper unit.


Blacklightning is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 07:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
qguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,228
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 104
You can use the Headphone out OR pre out if the Elite has one
qguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 08:03 AM
Senior Member
 
MTVhike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North Shore of central Long Island, NY (Stony Brook)
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
You can use the Headphone out OR pre out if the Elite has one
What about the lack of a crossover?
MTVhike is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 10:20 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spassvogel42 View Post
My older Pioneer Elite receiver doesn't have woofer outputs...is there a way to hook it to a sub that has L and R RCA-style inputs? Or am I just SOL?



Thanks!
Can you post a pic of the back of your receiver, and provide a model number?

How about your subwoofer?
What make/model is it?
Is it active or passive?
Can you post a pic of its connectors?

What are you using the receiver for, or want to use it for? 2 channel stereo/music listening? 2.1 or 3.1 movie viewing? 5.1 surround sound movie viewing?

Last edited by darknite9099; 02-13-2019 at 10:44 AM. Reason: added requests for more info
darknite9099 is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 11:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bobknavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Danbury, CT, USA
Posts: 4,182
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2127 Post(s)
Liked: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spassvogel42 View Post
My older Pioneer Elite receiver doesn't have woofer outputs...is there a way to hook it to a sub that has L and R RCA-style inputs? Or am I just SOL?



Thanks!
If your receiver also lacks L and R stereo pre-outs, some subs will accept L and R speaker level inputs. (You don't need to use heavy gauge speaker wire for that - the sub won't draw significant power from those cables.)

Those subs will also have a variable low pass filter, to limit the frequency range played by the sub. That's not as good as a crossover, because it doesn't prevent low frequencies from being sent to the main speakers, but it's serviceable.

If you got a sub that had the L&R line level inputs but no speaker level inputs, there are adapters, mainly sold for car audio, that take speaker level signals to line level.

If the sub had a single RCA input, that'd be a problem, because you want to mix the L&R signals to mono.

I don't know whether any of the subs with a control labelled "crossover" really perform that function, or whether they only have low pass filters.

You aren't SOL. You may end up with a sub-optimal solution, but you'd be better off than you are know, unless your L&R speakers are strong in bass.
bobknavs is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 11:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
qguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,228
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Most sub designed for home use would have an internal crossover

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
What about the lack of a crossover?
qguy is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 11:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
qguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,228
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 104
If you do not have pre-out, you can use this

https://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PLVHL60-...line+converter
qguy is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spassvogel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
If you do not have pre-out, you can use this

https://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PLVHL60-...line+converter

Hmm, yeah that is pretty much the kind of thing I would need. The sub I picked up is an ELAC. My receiver is a VSX-27TX. I half-upgraded my system during Black Friday this year, but I still need a new receiver and fronts.


Thanks for the responses.
Spassvogel42 is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 02:37 PM
Senior Member
 
MTVhike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North Shore of central Long Island, NY (Stony Brook)
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
Most sub designed for home use would have an internal crossover
My sub is a JBL 135S, which was purchased as part of a HTinabox system, and it sounds rather muffled. Am I doing something wrong? My source is the line out from a computer.
MTVhike is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 04:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,359
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2587 Post(s)
Liked: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
My Paradigm Servo 15 came with a X-20 unit that can take the speakers level in and feed the sub while at the same time remove the bass from the speakers. This worked better for me than my Old Marantz's AVR with bass management. HSU (I think) has a pricey unit like this but I think monoprice or some company like them have a cheaper unit.


That is a great little machine. Used one for many years with no degradation in the sound quality of the main speakers. Highly recommended!

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
RayGuy is online now  
post #12 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spassvogel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I looked at the back of the Pioneer and there is a pre-out (one of them) labeled SW. Should I just hook a single RCA to the Subwoofer or use a splitter? Or should I use one of the other pre-outs or multi-room L/R outputs?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	VSXS26TX.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	229.3 KB
ID:	2525452  
Spassvogel42 is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 08:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bobknavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Danbury, CT, USA
Posts: 4,182
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2127 Post(s)
Liked: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spassvogel42 View Post
I looked at the back of the Pioneer and there is a pre-out (one of them) labeled SW. Should I just hook a single RCA to the Subwoofer or use a splitter? Or should I use one of the other pre-outs or multi-room L/R outputs?
If the sub has RCA two inputs but one listed as LFE (low frequency effects), use a single RCA cable from the subwoofer output of the receiver to the LFE input of the sub. That's the "normal" connection.

Do you have a particular sub in mind? That would make it easier to be specific.
bobknavs is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spassvogel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
If the sub has RCA two inputs but one listed as LFE (low frequency effects), use a single RCA cable from the subwoofer output of the receiver to the LFE input of the sub. That's the "normal" connection.

Do you have a particular sub in mind? That would make it easier to be specific.

It's an ELAC 3010. The right input is labeled LFE so that may be the one.
Spassvogel42 is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 09:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bobknavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Danbury, CT, USA
Posts: 4,182
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2127 Post(s)
Liked: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spassvogel42 View Post
It's an ELAC 3010. The right input is labeled LFE so that may be the one.
Right.

From the downloadable manual:

"If you are connecting the subwoofer to an AV receiver or pre-Amp with a dedicated subwoofer or LFE output, connect a RCA cable (not supplied) from the LFE/Subwoofer output on the AV Receiver/Pre-Amp to the Right RCA input on the subwoofer (Fig 1)."

Fig. 1 is attached.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Elac_3010.JPG
Views:	7
Size:	49.9 KB
ID:	2525488  
bobknavs is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 02-13-2019, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spassvogel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Right.

From the downloadable manual:

"If you are connecting the subwoofer to an AV receiver or pre-Amp with a dedicated subwoofer or LFE output, connect a RCA cable (not supplied) from the LFE/Subwoofer output on the AV Receiver/Pre-Amp to the Right RCA input on the subwoofer (Fig 1)."

Fig. 1 is attached.



It had been so long since I'd looked at the back of the receiver (probably 2008, the last time I hooked something up to it) that I'd forgotten there was even a SW Pre-Out. Are those pre-outs adjustable with the volume knob then?
Spassvogel42 is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 06:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Blacklightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Edmonton,AB Canada
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 998 Post(s)
Liked: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spassvogel42 View Post
It had been so long since I'd looked at the back of the receiver (probably 2008, the last time I hooked something up to it) that I'd forgotten there was even a SW Pre-Out. Are those pre-outs adjustable with the volume knob then?
lol, so this whole time your receiver had a sub out...

DO NOT USE the pre-outs for the sub. Subs are meant to be used with one "wire", just use the LFE input as there is a little tech behind the input and that will get disabled if you plug into both RCA connections.
This is why only one is labeled LFE.
Blacklightning is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 10:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bobknavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Danbury, CT, USA
Posts: 4,182
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2127 Post(s)
Liked: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spassvogel42 View Post
It had been so long since I'd looked at the back of the receiver (probably 2008, the last time I hooked something up to it) that I'd forgotten there was even a SW Pre-Out. Are those pre-outs adjustable with the volume knob then?
The sub pre-out has its volume controlled by the AVR. It'd be useless otherwise.
bobknavs is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 10:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
drh3b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 3,431
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1859 Post(s)
Liked: 3375
Your receiver actually has basic bass management, download the owner's manual, and go to page 26.
Set all your speakers to small to route all the bass to your subwoofer.
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/p...0935494300.pdf
drh3b is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 11:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,359
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2587 Post(s)
Liked: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Your receiver actually has basic bass management, download the owner's manual, and go to page 26.
Set all your speakers to small to route all the bass to your subwoofer.
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/p...0935494300.pdf
Gotta wonder how many questions get posted here, that just a simple perusal of the manual would make unnecessary?

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
RayGuy is online now  
post #21 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spassvogel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Gotta wonder how many questions get posted here, that just a simple perusal of the manual would make unnecessary?

You're not wrong! I had to find the manual first! (Pioneer still keeps them online luckily). I was going by memory at first, which was that the Pioneer subs had speaker wire connectors and you were supposed to wind them around the five speaker outputs on the back of the receiver. It didn't occur to me that there would be an RCA output for Subwoofer. I also remember setting the speakers to small or large. Now I just need to find the video-out for the receiver so I can navigate the menus.



Thanks for the replies...
Spassvogel42 is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 03:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bobknavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Danbury, CT, USA
Posts: 4,182
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2127 Post(s)
Liked: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spassvogel42 View Post
(snip)

Now I just need to find the video-out for the receiver so I can navigate the menus.

(snip)
Composite or S video, If I understand correctly. Maybe you'll have to hunt up a CRT TV to connect.
bobknavs is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spassvogel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Composite or S video, If I understand correctly. Maybe you'll have to hunt up a CRT TV to connect.

Luckily I haven't upgraded my TV in a long time, it still has AV1 and AV2 hookups on it ha ha. I was able to get into the menus. It's funny how basic they are, but for the time they were pretty remarkable. You can set dynamic range, speaker delays for all channels and bass crossover with the subwoofer. All in a Receiver from 1999 or so.


My only challenge now is that the remote buttons are all worn off so I have to keep looking at a picture to remind myself of what buttons go where. Man I really loved that remote too, it was a learning remote. I used it for everything. Random memory: there was a Laser Tag arena where each team had a base station that would send out "healing" pulses. You could use the learning remote to learn the healing signal and use it for a portable healer. Wonder if the other team ever found out ha ha.
Spassvogel42 is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spassvogel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Your receiver actually has basic bass management, download the owner's manual, and go to page 26.
Set all your speakers to small to route all the bass to your subwoofer.
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/p...0935494300.pdf

Yeah, the manual was very helpful. Nice of Pioneer to have them all online. I was able to tweak the settings a bit. I have to say that I really like the ELAC subwoofer app. It really helped tweak things from my listening position.
drh3b likes this.
Spassvogel42 is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 10:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bobknavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Danbury, CT, USA
Posts: 4,182
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2127 Post(s)
Liked: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spassvogel42 View Post
Luckily I haven't upgraded my TV in a long time, it still has AV1 and AV2 hookups on it ha ha. I was able to get into the menus. It's funny how basic they are, but for the time they were pretty remarkable. You can set dynamic range, speaker delays for all channels and bass crossover with the subwoofer. All in a Receiver from 1999 or so.


My only challenge now is that the remote buttons are all worn off so I have to keep looking at a picture to remind myself of what buttons go where. Man I really loved that remote too, it was a learning remote. I used it for everything. Random memory: there was a Laser Tag arena where each team had a base station that would send out "healing" pulses. You could use the learning remote to learn the healing signal and use it for a portable healer. Wonder if the other team ever found out ha ha.
It may be possible to find a replacement for the remote. I think its part number is Axd7212. I'd usually go to eBay for something like that (an eBay storefront, rather than an individual seller), but I see none at the moment.

That thing sounds really well-loved.
bobknavs is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 02-14-2019, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spassvogel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
It may be possible to find a replacement for the remote. I think its part number is Axd7212. I'd usually go to eBay for something like that (an eBay storefront, rather than an individual seller), but I see none at the moment.

That thing sounds really well-loved.

Thanks for that part number. I'll set up a watch for it. The reason that remote was so well used was that it controlled *everything* even my more obscure pieces of equipment because I could use the learning feature to replicate even devices that weren't on the list. I wish the newer mid-range Harmony remotes worked as well. The one I have is kinda garbage. I probably should have taken it back. (but I digress).



I've had that receiver so long that I actually used it with my LaserDisc player! My AC-3 Demodulator is still buried in my entertainment center. Anyway, I got about half my upgrade done. Now I need to see about replacing the TV, receiver, and front speakers.
Spassvogel42 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off