Dual subs for small HT room, Mono 12, VTF2 MK5, VTF3 MK5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Dual subs for small HT room, Mono 12, VTF2 MK5, VTF3 MK5

I have a 15X13 room (8 ft. ceilings) so 1560 cubic feet. I've been going round and round for weeks. Rhymik LVX12, HSU VTF2 MK5, VTF3 MK5, Monoprice 12 THX. Ending up in circles. 1560 cubic feet is not a big room. 100% HT use. The main thing I want to achieve is the films that really push bass, like Blade Runner 2049, I don't want to hear a sub bottoming out.
I want to utilize dual subs due to the room configuration (spare bedroom with one door as entrance, and a small closet in the room). One of the subs will be placed in front of the closet door. 15" gives me plenty of room for placement in that corner. I'd be stretching it with 17" width but could make it work I think if it's worth it (less entrance room to closet). I'm ready to buy one this week and add the second sub at the end of the year when I upgrade my AVR. Current receiver can only handle one sub. I've read for many hours and am running in circles now....
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post #2 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 09:19 AM
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post #3 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 09:34 AM
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I recently upgraded a pair of Hsu VTF-1 (one a Mk2, the other a Mk3) to a pair of VTF-3 Mk5.

You mention Blade Runner 2049. I hadn't realized how badly the VTF-1s were failing to play the bass from that. The VTF-3s handle it; the sound is completely different.

I considered the VTF-15H Mk2s, but the extra 4.5" of depth was too much.
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 09:48 AM
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Hi there,

Usually for that room, going with two VTF-2 Mk5's is a great choice. If you like to listen to pretty high output levels, the VTF-3 Mk5's may be a better bet as they will be able to play significantly louder and cleaner (less of a chance of them bottoming out). I believe you may have called in yesterday, but not sure.
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post #5 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 09:52 AM
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I think Dual VTF2 MK5's would pressurize that room plenty since it's a small room BUT the VTF-3 MK5's value is hard to ignore
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post #6 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 10:09 AM
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Unless you are playing very loud VTF-2 should be fine but the VTF-3 is such a good value and you would have no "what if" regrets. So my vote is for the VTF-3 as well. By the way no reason you have to wait for a new AVR to utilize dual subs. It makes it simpler to set up but can be done with a single sub out and a y-splitter. It takes a little more time to set up that way but shouldn't be an issue unless the distance from MLP to each sub is very different. It that case having separate time delays is an advantage.
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post #7 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HsuKevin View Post
Hi there,

Usually for that room, going with two VTF-2 Mk5's is a great choice. If you like to listen to pretty high output levels, the VTF-3 Mk5's may be a better bet as they will be able to play significantly louder and cleaner (less of a chance of them bottoming out). I believe you may have called in yesterday, but not sure.
That was me, yes! I'm trying to nail this down.

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Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
I think Dual VTF2 MK5's would pressurize that room plenty since it's a small room BUT the VTF-3 MK5's value is hard to ignore
This is the dilemma. It is a small room. If the VTF 3 is overkill I don't want to go that route. I just don't want bottoming out on the newer film scores/soundtracks. The VTF2 does allow easier placement, especially in one of the two corners they will be placed in.

I like that HSU will send replacement parts if needed and I wouldn't have to mail the entire sub in like you do with Monoprice. I keep reading about member after member having to send theirs in due to issues. So maybe this is really the VTF 2 vs 3 for my room I guess.
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 10:21 AM
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Dual Monolith 12's are excellent, very hard to beat for their price. The HSU VTF-3 mk5 is also fantastic.
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post #9 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyDeVito View Post
That was me, yes! I'm trying to nail this down.



This is the dilemma. It is a small room. If the VTF 3 is overkill I don't want to go that route. I just don't want bottoming out on the newer film scores/soundtracks. The VTF2 does allow easier placement, especially in one of the two corners they will be placed in.

I like that HSU will send replacement parts if needed and I wouldn't have to mail the entire sub in like you do with Monoprice. I keep reading about member after member having to send theirs in due to issues. So maybe this is really the VTF 2 vs 3 for my room I guess.
No such thing as overkill. Get the VTF-3. You can always turn the volume down, but there's no such thing as having too much headroom.
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 10:45 AM
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It's hard to argue with the VTF-3, but in a room that small I'd probably go with a pair of (relatively) compact sealed subs like, say, the HSU ULS-15 MK2 or SVS SB-2000. They'll provide plenty of output, and cabin gain should give you ultra-deep extension. And no port chuffing!

FWIW, a buddy of mine had a pair of 18", 475W subs in a ~2,025 cu.ft. basement (carpet over concrete) room and not only did he get extension down to ~10Hz but the output was literally couch-shaking, chest-slamming awesome.
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyDeVito View Post
That was me, yes! I'm trying to nail this down.



This is the dilemma. It is a small room. If the VTF 3 is overkill I don't want to go that route. I just don't want bottoming out on the newer film scores/soundtracks. The VTF2 does allow easier placement, especially in one of the two corners they will be placed in.

I like that HSU will send replacement parts if needed and I wouldn't have to mail the entire sub in like you do with Monoprice. I keep reading about member after member having to send theirs in due to issues. So maybe this is really the VTF 2 vs 3 for my room I guess.


Do you listen at Reference levels?
How "hot" do you typically run your sub? (+3, +6, +9 etc)?

I don't think you'll bottom out the VTF2 MK5's but you may run into "chuffing" if you set them in max extension mode and push them too hard. Setting them in max output mode will solve/avoid this issue but then you'll miss out on some extension.

VTF2 MK5 in extension mode 16hz max SPL 105.6dB.

The VTF3 won't "chuff" in max output mode BUT as you can see it digs as deep in max output mode than the VTF2 does in max extension mode.

VTF3 MK5 in max output mode 16hz max SPL 106.8 dB


IF i was in your shoes I would get Dual VTF-3 MK5 and run them in max output mode. You'll have headroom for days and solid output down to 16hz
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 01:26 PM
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No such thing as overkill. Get the VTF-3. You can always turn the volume down, but there's no such thing as having too much headroom.
This! The more headroom the better in my opinion. I bet you will push the system louder than you think once you get the subs also. So go big as you have room for and fits your budget. You will appreciate the dynamics and clean power.

I should also mention the customer service experience you will get dealing with Hsu,Rythmik or PSA.
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 02:26 PM
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For a room that small in size you'll have plenty of headroom with most any of these dual subs mentioned. The Monolith THX Ultra 12 is pretty much bullet proof and a real workhorse. One would crush the room, two would be a wild ride. I've never experienced a ported sub that plays as clean and accurate as the Monolith 12. It is a big sub, however. Built like a tank and weighs just under 100 pounds.
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-26-2019, 04:13 PM
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Both subs don't need to be the same.



Personally, this has been my upgrade path for a 3500cuft room:


HSU VTF-3 MK5


Then Antimode 8033S-II (wasn't totally happy with how the Yamaha YPAO was doing)



Then additional 12" Aperion I had from another system.


Then additional 12" Blue Sky from an old studio system.


(Subwoofers setup using the Geddes method and REW for placement and levels, then the Antimode)

The bass is as close to perfect across the entire listening area as I can imagine, but the graphs aren't perfect, so I'm still experimenting to see if I can get it even better.



Unless you have top-notch sub calibration from your receiver, I would prioritize an Antimode over a second sub. Get one sub and the Antimode, and then keep an eye on Craigslist, Ebay and the AVS Classifieds for robust subs in the $100-$250 range (I've seen older HSU, SVS and other quality subs pop up in that price range). Then you can add on as it's convenient.



Also, if you're prone to endless tweaking, the options in the HSU can end up driving you nuts, because no matter how good it sounds, you'll always wonder if a different configuration might sound just a little bit better.

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post #15 of 24 Old 03-28-2019, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm done himming and hawing over this. Mix Master Ice, you can disregard my PM. VTF3 MK5 ordered. Will add a second one when I buy my receiver. Kevin wasn't available today but the gentleman I spoke to on the phone went out of his way to discuss at length a lot of questions and use right now with my ancient receiver. And they want to see my room for help with placement. I think I picked the right company with HSU. I asked a lot of questions like amp replacement down the road, what it would cost, backwards compatibility etc. They were extremely helpful. Thanks to all the people above who took the time above to respond and offer their advice.

HT 7.1.4: Sony X940E, Marantz SR8012, LR: JBL Studio 580's, C: JBL Studio 520c, Surrounds and Rears: JBL Studio 530's, ATMOS: JBL Studio 210's, Sub: HSU VTF-3 mk5
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-30-2019, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyDeVito View Post
I'm done himming and hawing over this. Mix Master Ice, you can disregard my PM. VTF3 MK5 ordered. Will add a second one when I buy my receiver. Kevin wasn't available today but the gentleman I spoke to on the phone went out of his way to discuss at length a lot of questions and use right now with my ancient receiver. And they want to see my room for help with placement. I think I picked the right company with HSU. I asked a lot of questions like amp replacement down the road, what it would cost, backwards compatibility etc. They were extremely helpful. Thanks to all the people above who took the time above to respond and offer their advice.
Sorry I wasn't available to answer your questions that day! You actually talked to Dr. Hsu. Thank you so much for ordering the VTF-3 Mk5 HP. Let me know if you have any questions in setup, etc.
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post #17 of 24 Old 06-20-2019, 08:50 AM
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With VTF3 MK5, how is your experience. I’m in same situation with pretty much similar needs. Did you feel true punch/bass without lot of boomy sound?
I want to upgrade from Polk PSW505. I’m currently trying SVS SB2000 and I’m not satisfied with my initial trials.
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post #18 of 24 Old 06-20-2019, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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With VTF3 MK5, how is your experience. I’m in same situation with pretty much similar needs. Did you feel true punch/bass without lot of boomy sound?
I want to upgrade from Polk PSW505. I’m currently trying SVS SB2000 and I’m not satisfied with my initial trials.

I made the right choice with the sub choice and company I bought it from. HSU has been exemplary from a support standpoint. I mean call them, wait a minute and bam, someone is on the phone with you helping you out with settings. Very impressed with the smaller company and more hands on approach compared to calling into some big company and getting transferred over and over, and waiting. And I'm very impressed with the VTF-3 mk5. It's a tad bit overkill (I bought a VTF2 Mk5 for my bedroom and dual 2-5's would have been "enough" for my HT room) but not on deep stuff like Blade Runner 2049 or Tron Legacy. In some of the scenes in BR2049, the sub rattles my recliner and chest. It's that powerful. I've been going back and forth with EQ1 with one port closed (the 3" port) and both ports open in EQ2. Back and forth back and forth. I think I prefer max extension mode but it's hard to make a definitive answer when running it hard.



I think the VTF3 is the max value leader among subs in this price range. The variable tuning allows lots of different possibilities. One port open, both ports open, or run it kind of like a sealed sub with both ports plugged. I think you'll like it. It's powerful. Sound is phenom. I've dialed mine in going against the traditional approach of only using the avr to make adjustments to it. I got tired of going back and forth. I set the gain on the back of the sub to 9 o'clock, then backed it off to I think -7 in the AVR and it's right where I want it. Powerful, chest slam, deep bass, and if I closed my eyes I couldn't tell you where it was in the room if I didn't know physical location. And most importantly no boominess. You read of many people on here going up in volume after Audyssey has run. This was the case for me as well. I think Audyssey is great for distances but I didn't care for the crossover settings or sub settings at all and made changes.



I will definitely be buying a 2nd VTF-3 Mk5 to even out the room since speaker and sub location are limited in my room by the entrance door and the closet door. My preference is definitely hard hitting chest slam but I also don't like bass being so powerful that the 7 speaker layout is distanced from it meaning the sub just overpowering the soundtrack, speakers, etc. If you have similar room dimensions a pair of VTF2-5's would be sufficient but I like having the extra headroom as I'm running the sub on the lower end of what it can do. I've compared to VTF2 and 3 back to back, although in different rooms, the dimensions of both rooms are exactly the same. The VTF3 hits harder and deeper. BR2049 is just phenomenal with this VTF3. I mean you sit there during some scenes and just say holy f***! Some members above talk about headroom, and they are 100%. With subs buy more than what you need for headroom sakes. For me the trick with this sub was increasing output from what Audyssey set it at but finding that right setting between too much and just where I want it integrated into the soundtrack takes some tweaking/experimenting but you'll get it there with incremental changes.



The sub gets a lot of attention and praise and it's well deserved. Buy with confidence. Just be advised it's a big SOB so definitely look at the dimensions on their site and measure it in your room so you know what you are getting into. I can't wait to add a 2nd one. Edit: Definitely concerned about getting the police knocking on my door. I watched Pacific Rim last night in 4k, and that HSU sub was shaking the house.

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post #19 of 24 Old 06-20-2019, 11:03 AM
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Sorry I wasn't available to answer your questions that day! You actually talked to Dr. Hsu. Thank you so much for ordering the VTF-3 Mk5 HP. Let me know if you have any questions in setup, etc.
Hey Kevin,


Would 4x VTF-2 MK5 work well in a small sealed room like that>?

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post #20 of 24 Old 06-20-2019, 02:58 PM
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Hey Kevin,


Would 4x VTF-2 MK5 work well in a small sealed room like that>?
Sure can. It depends on what you're trying to do and factors like where you're seated in the room, etc.

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post #21 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 10:40 AM
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Sure can. It depends on what you're trying to do and factors like where you're seated in the room, etc.


The room is going to be 100% flexible as far as placement goes. I'm currently running Dual Outlaw X12's but will be moving everything to the dedicated sealed HT room next year.

I was debating between adding Dual VTF-2 MK5's(paired with my dual X12's) or starting all over with Dual VTF-3 MK5's.
I have been leaning towards the Dual VTF-2 MK5's since i believe they have the same/similar port tune as my current X12's and would be more affordable. Also selling the X12's would be incredibly difficult in area without taking a huge loss.

Would quad subs(Dual VTF-2 MK5 / Dual X12) have enough headroom to run them in max extension mode in a small 1600 cu.ft. rectangular room with average listening levels of -15dB to -7dB?

Speakers: KEF Q100 / Q300 / Q750 / Q650C, Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf / SX6 / XL5F, Mirage M-190 Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2), BIC H100-II Receiver: Denon AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501, Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Headphones: Philips SPH9500s, Audio Tech. ATH-M40x, Takstar Pro 82.
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post #22 of 24 Old 06-25-2019, 03:36 PM
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Yea I would say going with two VTF-2 Mk5's to run with your X12's should be fine for those output levels. Your room isn't terribly large so those 4 subs should be able to pressurize that area quite well.

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post #23 of 24 Old 06-27-2019, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
The room is going to be 100% flexible as far as placement goes. I'm currently running Dual Outlaw X12's but will be moving everything to the dedicated sealed HT room next year.

I was debating between adding Dual VTF-2 MK5's(paired with my dual X12's) or starting all over with Dual VTF-3 MK5's.
I have been leaning towards the Dual VTF-2 MK5's since i believe they have the same/similar port tune as my current X12's and would be more affordable. Also selling the X12's would be incredibly difficult in area without taking a huge loss.

Would quad subs(Dual VTF-2 MK5 / Dual X12) have enough headroom to run them in max extension mode in a small 1600 cu.ft. rectangular room with average listening levels of -15dB to -7dB?
You should have no problem. My room is 1400 cu. ft. For awhile I was running two vtf-2’s and one x12. In max extension and running my subs about 5 db’s hot, I had no problem at -10 volume or so. No chuffing or port noise I could hear. So with a 4th, you should be golden.
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post #24 of 24 Old 06-30-2019, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb75 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
The room is going to be 100% flexible as far as placement goes. I'm currently running Dual Outlaw X12's but will be moving everything to the dedicated sealed HT room next year.

I was debating between adding Dual VTF-2 MK5's(paired with my dual X12'&#115 or starting all over with Dual VTF-3 MK5's.
I have been leaning towards the Dual VTF-2 MK5's since i believe they have the same/similar port tune as my current X12's and would be more affordable. Also selling the X12's would be incredibly difficult in area without taking a huge loss.

Would quad subs(Dual VTF-2 MK5 / Dual X12) have enough headroom to run them in max extension mode in a small 1600 cu.ft. rectangular room with average listening levels of -15dB to -7dB?[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG]
You should have no problem. My room is 1400 cu. ft. For awhile I was running two vtf-2’️s and one x12. In max extension and running my subs about 5 db’️s hot, I had no problem at -10 volume or so. No chuffing or port noise I could hear. So with a 4th, you should be golden.
How well did they blend together ?

Speakers: KEF Q100 / Q300 / Q750 / Q650C, Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf / SX6 / XL5F, Mirage M-190 Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2), BIC H100-II Receiver: Denon AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501, Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Headphones: Philips SPH9500s, Audio Tech. ATH-M40x, Takstar Pro 82.
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