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post #1 of 17 Old 04-09-2019, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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SW behind TV OK?

My TV is in the corner and there is a large void back there. Room enough for a subwoofer.
Id have to put the subwoofer on a platform so that its bottom sits at the same height as the legs of the TV.
the face of the subwoofer would be about 1st behind the TV. Its a new 65" LED TV.
Any issues you can offer for placing the subwoofer there? thanks you for any tips!


the SW is a Definitive PF1500, a vintage unit now but works good.
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post #2 of 17 Old 04-09-2019, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prsman
the face of the subwoofer would be about 1st behind the TV. Its a new 65" LED TV
Do you mean 1 feet? If so, I wouldn't be comfortable with the sub facing so close to the TV. I'd try to put it further away (maybe facing the wall), or below the TV.

However, the critical factor about sub placement is how good it sounds at a given spot. If it sounds good behind your TV, then so be it. Unfortunately subwoofers don't care for what's more convenient to us.
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post #3 of 17 Old 04-09-2019, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AmerCa View Post
Do you mean 1 feet? If so, I wouldn't be comfortable with the sub facing so close to the TV. I'd try to put it further away (maybe facing the wall), or below the TV.

However, the critical factor about sub placement is how good it sounds at a given spot. If it sounds good behind your TV, then so be it. Unfortunately subwoofers don't care for what's more convenient to us.
thanks for that. Yes I meant 1ft.
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post #4 of 17 Old 04-09-2019, 06:41 PM
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I had a similar setup in our first house, however, the sub was a down-firing sub. You could turn the woofer portion towards one of the cornering walls and see how it sounds. If you have some sort of room correcting program, that would further help.
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post #5 of 17 Old 04-09-2019, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jedi1982 View Post
I had a similar setup in our first house, however, the sub was a down-firing sub. You could turn the woofer portion towards one of the cornering walls and see how it sounds. If you have some sort of room correcting program, that would further help.
I did put the SW back there pointed at the TV. After receivers AccuEQ, the SW was set to minimum level. I had to turn it down, it was too thumpy. Ill play with your suggestion and turn it toward a wall and re AccuEQ. Do you have a suggestion on a way to EQ just the SW? Its a big room and there are several peaks and valleys over its bandwidth. Thanks again!
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post #6 of 17 Old 04-10-2019, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prsman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi1982 View Post
I had a similar setup in our first house, however, the sub was a down-firing sub. You could turn the woofer portion towards one of the cornering walls and see how it sounds. If you have some sort of room correcting program, that would further help.
I did put the SW back there pointed at the TV. After receivers AccuEQ, the SW was set to minimum level. I had to turn it down, it was too thumpy. Ill play with your suggestion and turn it toward a wall and re AccuEQ. Do you have a suggestion on a way to EQ just the SW? Its a big room and there are several peaks and valleys over its bandwidth. Thanks again!

That's where mine is, behind tv, facing not directly toward the back of the panel, but angled off to the side.

Works out great like this, here. Guess it varies per room.
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post #7 of 17 Old 04-10-2019, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prsman View Post
My TV is in the corner and there is a large void back there. Room enough for a subwoofer.
Id have to put the subwoofer on a platform so that its bottom sits at the same height as the legs of the TV.
the face of the subwoofer would be about 1st behind the TV. Its a new 65" LED TV.
Any issues you can offer for placing the subwoofer there? thanks you for any tips!


the SW is a Definitive PF1500, a vintage unit now but works good.
As long as the TV is stable when the sub is pushed to high levels and the screen is not annoyingly shaking while watching the much more important issue is if the sub sounds good in that particular location.

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post #8 of 17 Old 04-16-2019, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
As long as the TV is stable when the sub is pushed to high levels and the screen is not annoyingly shaking while watching the much more important issue is if the sub sounds good in that particular location.
Thank you for the encouragment. I went ahead and did it. Seems fine. Sounds the same to me. However I notice that I have to turn the sub input way down. To get the sub in the range of the room EQ I have to turn the sub volume know down about 1/4 turn. So I get being in the corner makes it more efficient
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post #9 of 17 Old 04-16-2019, 07:59 AM
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The sub being in the corner will produce heavier bass than being out in the open. You will be turning it down. I have had one of my subs in the back nether regions of the TV for years and years now. The BEST thing i did was to add a second sub in the back of the room, seriously smoothed out the bass. But there really is no real reason to not utilize the space you have.
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post #10 of 17 Old 04-17-2019, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
The sub being in the corner will produce heavier bass than being out in the open. You will be turning it down. I have had one of my subs in the back nether regions of the TV for years and years now. The BEST thing i did was to add a second sub in the back of the room, seriously smoothed out the bass. But there really is no real reason to not utilize the space you have.
Thanks for confirming. Yes. I think the next thiing will be a 2nd subwoofer. My receiver has only a single SW preamp output. Can one "T" the coax to get a cable to each subwoofer.?
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post #11 of 17 Old 04-17-2019, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by prsman View Post
Thank you for the encouragment. I went ahead and did it. Seems fine. Sounds the same to me. However I notice that I have to turn the sub input way down. To get the sub in the range of the room EQ I have to turn the sub volume know down about 1/4 turn. So I get being in the corner makes it more efficient

Normal, it is call corner loading and re-enforcing the lower frequencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prsman View Post
Thanks for confirming. Yes. I think the next thiing will be a 2nd subwoofer. My receiver has only a single SW preamp output. Can one "T" the coax to get a cable to each subwoofer.?
Yes a single Y-splitter, with the single end from your AVR to each sub. Just make sure to get the proper ends for the AVR and the Subs.

But once done, you need to figure out manually the volume level and phase control on the second sub. This will correct the distance to be relative to each sub.
Get a Sound Pressure Level measurer, do some reading of various test tone. For the first Sub with the second sub Off. And write those value for the first sub.
With something like that;
https://www.amazon.ca/Decibel-Mengsh...8&s=hi&sr=1-21

Once you got your readings on paper, for the first sub. Turn-it Off and turn your second sub On.
Repeat the same frequencies level result, and slowly adjust your volume level to match your first sub. Than slowly adjust the phase level. Until all results come closely to the first sub.
Then put both subs On, and do your calibration.

Just for info.
An AVR/AVP that can do two subs, just do-it on the first sweep to find out the volume and distance (in your case, playing with the phase do the same thing) for each sub. Than the calibration will be done as one sub. Just making the whole process easier


Ray

Last edited by darthray; 04-17-2019 at 06:02 PM.
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post #12 of 17 Old 04-17-2019, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Normal, it is call corner loading and re-enforcing the lower frequencies.



Yes a single Y-splitter, with the single end from your AVR to each sub. Just make sure to get the proper ends for the AVR and the Subs.

But once done, you need to figure out manually the volume level and phase control on the second sub. This will correct the distance to be relative to each sub.
Get a Sound Pressure Level measurer, do some reading of various test tone. For the first Sub with the second sub Off. And write those value for the first sub.
With something like that;
https://www.amazon.ca/Decibel-Mengsh...8&s=hi&sr=1-21

Once you got your readings on paper, for the first sub. Turn-it Off and turn your second sub On.
Repeat the same frequencies level result, and slowly adjust your volume level to match your first sub. Than slowly adjust the phase level. Until all results come closely to the first sub.
Then put both subs On, and do your calibration.

Just for info.
An AVR/AVP that can do two subs, just do-it on the first sweep to find out the volume and distance (in your case, playing with the phase do the same thing) for each sub. Than the calibration will be done as one sub. Just making the whole process easier


Ray

Nice. Thanks very much. Ill print this out while I figure out what SW to buy. thanks again!
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post #13 of 17 Old 04-18-2019, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Normal, it is call corner loading and re-enforcing the lower frequencies.



Yes a single Y-splitter, with the single end from your AVR to each sub. Just make sure to get the proper ends for the AVR and the Subs.

But once done, you need to figure out manually the volume level and phase control on the second sub. This will correct the distance to be relative to each sub.
Get a Sound Pressure Level measurer, do some reading of various test tone. For the first Sub with the second sub Off. And write those value for the first sub.
With something like that;
https://www.amazon.ca/Decibel-Mengsh...8&s=hi&sr=1-21

Once you got your readings on paper, for the first sub. Turn-it Off and turn your second sub On.
Repeat the same frequencies level result, and slowly adjust your volume level to match your first sub. Than slowly adjust the phase level. Until all results come closely to the first sub.
Then put both subs On, and do your calibration.

Just for info.
An AVR/AVP that can do two subs, just do-it on the first sweep to find out the volume and distance (in your case, playing with the phase do the same thing) for each sub. Than the calibration will be done as one sub. Just making the whole process easier


Ray
Hi Ray. A couple of questions:
1) What do you listen for when adjusting the phase knob on the back of the 2nd SW? The meter doesnt do phase. that parts confusing for me.

2) Are there downloadable test files to sweep the subwoofer output and set it at specified frequency?
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post #14 of 17 Old 04-18-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by prsman View Post
Hi Ray. A couple of questions:
1) What do you listen for when adjusting the phase knob on the back of the 2nd SW? The meter doesnt do phase. that parts confusing for me.

2) Are there downloadable test files to sweep the subwoofer output and set it at specified frequency?
For question 1), I do not listen to any thing I just look at my results from the first sub. From a test CD, been many years since I did-it this way (three AVP ago, over 10 years).
And just look at the numbers of the results, for every frequencies. Than when doing the second sub, try to match those number closely (some will have higher [dip] and lower ones [null], just need to find a nice average).
And hope your calibration from your AVR, will take care of smoothing everything out.

If doing by hear, I still suggest to use a Sound Pressure Measuring tool for the volume.
Than have some play with the phase control, (using a song or movie with lots of bass, just not very accurate) to find out where your level is the highest and go back down. And fine tune from there.

For question 2), I use to have a real CD, but unfortunately cannot find a link for you.
But did find this on line version from a You Tube video;

All my previous instructions are not the easy to do, without some understanding of bass and equalisation knowledge.
And therefore just gave some basics step. That said, my suggestion to you would be buying an AVR with two subs output. Before buying a second sub
This will remedy lots of problems for you, just do-it one step at the time. Enjoy your first sub for now.

Ray

Last edited by darthray; 04-18-2019 at 06:43 PM.
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post #15 of 17 Old 04-18-2019, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
For question 1), I do not listen to any thing I just look at my results from the first sub. From a test CD, been many years since I did-it this way (three AVP ago, over 10 years).
And just look at the numbers of the results, for every frequencies. Than when doing the second sub, try to match those number closely (some will have higher [dip] and lower ones [null], just need to find a nice average).
And hope your calibration from your AVR, will take care of smoothing everything out.

If doing by hear, I still suggest to use a Sound Pressure Measuring tool for the volume.
Than have some play with the phase control, (using a song or movie with lots of bass, just not very accurate) to find out where your level is the highest and go back down. And fine tune from there.

For question 2), I use to have a real CD, but unfortunately cannot find a link for you.
But did find this on line version from a You Tube video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7A_SEE0_nc

All my previous instructions are not the easy to do, without some understanding of bass and equalisation knowledge.
And therefore just gave some basics step. That said, my suggestion to you would be buying an AVR with two subs output. Before buying a second sub
This will remedy lots of problems for you, just do-it one step at the time. Enjoy your first sub for now.

Ray
Yes thanks. I already have a sound pressure meter that has an interface to a PC so I can capture the frequecy response if I could sweep. But how is changing the phase is detected. I can adjust level or volume knob on the 2nd SW to match the reference readings of the 1st SW. What am I looking for when I adjust the phase at each test frequency?.
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post #16 of 17 Old 04-19-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post

All my previous instructions are not the easy to do, without some understanding of bass and equalisation knowledge.
And therefore just gave some basics step. That said, my suggestion to you would be buying an AVR with two subs output. Before buying a second sub
This will remedy lots of problems for you, just do-it one step at the time. Enjoy your first sub for now.

Ray
Quote:
Originally Posted by prsman View Post
Yes thanks. I already have a sound pressure meter that has an interface to a PC so I can capture the frequecy response if I could sweep. But how is changing the phase is detected. I can adjust level or volume knob on the 2nd SW to match the reference readings of the 1st SW. What am I looking for when I adjust the phase at each test frequency?.
No just an overall idea of what frequencies to try when playing with phase. To see if the measurement go up.
As I said previously, not an easy task to do for some who know what they are doing.
In your case, I strongly suggest you got an AVR with Audyssey XT32.
Then get a second sub, one piece at the time.


Ray

Last edited by darthray; 04-19-2019 at 03:59 PM.
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post #17 of 17 Old 04-19-2019, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
No just an overall idea of what frequencies to try when playing with phase. To see if the measurement go up.
As I said previously, not an easy task to do for some who know what they are doing.
In your case, I strongly suggest you got an AVR with Audyssey XT32.
Then get a second sub, one piece at the time.


Ray
Hi Ray: Attached is a room characteristic. Note the deep null of 20db at 72hz. I spoke with Audessey about ability to correct. here is their response: "Yes, MultEQ will correct to create a flat frequency response. No, it likely won't completely resolve the 20 dB drop at 71 Hz. MultEQ will apply up 9dB of boost and 24dB of cut, and does so in a way that keeps the channel level aligned with MultEQ on and off. Moving the subwoofer or adding acoustic treatment may help change the response for extreme dips, a acoustician is needed to make recommendations specific to your room."
So Ill take your suggestion and see if the phase can at least help the null to getter closer to something Audessey can handle. And while I have little flexibility to move the sub, I can point it differently and see if that helps.
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