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post #1 of 34 Old 05-01-2019, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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2 subwoofers+2 bass shakers bottoming out???

Hello, i have 2 svs sb 1000's and 2 Reckhorn bs200 bass shakers. They are connected connected to my reciever like this: rca splitter from reciever, one going to the subwoofers (done by Daisy chaining them) and the other one connected to my Reckhorn A-409 amp where the bass shakers are connected to. Both the subwoofers are set at 3 o'clock and the gain on the reciever is set to -7 (i have measured with REW no better spot for them). As for the bass shakers, the amp has that clipping warning on the front which i have not seen ever being lit up so i assume i'm not overdriving them.


When watching the 4k bluray of Blade Runner 2049 i noticed both the bass shakers and subwoofers distorting (sounds like bottoming out. The thing is, i never play loud at all. My room is very small (700 cubic feet) and i rarely even hit 80 db so i don't push them hard at all from the reciever.


Lastly, if anyone out there has this disc i would like to hear how your subwoofer/bass shaker handles the scene at 1:01:46-1:02:18?. Turning the volujme down i can't hear it at my listening position but if i go right up to the subwoofers i can hear it. Could this distortion come from the source perhaps?
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post #2 of 34 Old 05-01-2019, 10:48 AM
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2 subwoofers+2 bass shakers bottoming out???

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Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
Hello, i have 2 svs sb 1000's and 2 Reckhorn bs200 bass shakers. They are connected connected to my reciever like this: rca splitter from reciever, one going to the subwoofers (done by Daisy chaining them) and the other one connected to my Reckhorn A-409 amp where the bass shakers are connected to. Both the subwoofers are set at 3 o'clock and the gain on the reciever is set to -7 (i have measured with REW no better spot for them). As for the bass shakers, the amp has that clipping warning on the front which i have not seen ever being lit up so i assume i'm not overdriving them.





When watching the 4k bluray of Blade Runner 2049 i noticed both the bass shakers and subwoofers distorting (sounds like bottoming out. The thing is, i never play loud at all. My room is very small (700 cubic feet) and i rarely even hit 80 db so i don't push them hard at all from the reciever.





Lastly, if anyone out there has this disc i would like to hear how your subwoofer/bass shaker handles the scene at 1:01:46-1:02:18?. Turning the volujme down i can't hear it at my listening position but if i go right up to the subwoofers i can hear it. Could this distortion come from the source perhaps?

If going by receiver volume, 80dB is actually reference level (or 0dBFS) for D&M receivers which is very loud, or do you mean you measured the levels with a microphone and the bass doesn’t hit 80dB often?

Are you running a HPF on your shakers? If so, try adding a lower one and replay the scene you’re having trouble with and tweak to taste.

I just played this timestamp at reference to check for you, and sounds great on my end. There’s quite a bit of ULF in this passage when the car is brought down with strong 25-30Hz and decent output down to 10Hz and a little below, but nothing that makes any awkward noises for me. If this is the only time in the movie you noticed it, there’s much heavier passages with deeper content that I would have thought would bottom out your shakers easier.

Try the short car landing scene at the beginning 0:03:40 and see if you hear any bad noises, lots of similar waveforms to the scene you had trouble with but even stronger output. That’s basically the entire sound design for the movie focusing on very strong 25-30Hz with some much deeper tones sprinkled throughout.

You shouldn’t be hearing anything bad from the subs either though, so it’s possible it’s distortion on your end. This is a very demanding movie for a pair of SB1000 to replicate at high volumes, but their DSP limiters are set very well to prevent what you described. It’s not a popping sound is it? That could be clipping, depending on your signal chain; this movie LFE is mixed very hot.

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post #3 of 34 Old 05-01-2019, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
If going by receiver volume, 80dB is actually reference level (or 0dBFS) for D&M receivers which is very loud, or do you mean you measured the levels with a microphone and the bass doesn’t hit 80dB often?

Are you running a HPF on your shakers? If so, try adding one lower one and replay the scene you’re having trouble with and tweak to taste.

I just played this timestamp at reference to check for you, and sounds great on my end. There’s quite a bit of ULF in this passage when the car is brought down with strong 25-30Hz and decent output down to 10Hz and a little below, but nothing that makes any awkward noises for me. If this is the only time in the movie you noticed it, there’s much heavier passages with deeper content that I would have thought would bottom out your shakers easier.

Try the short car landing scene at the beginning 0:03:40 and see if you hear any bad noises, lots of similar waveforms to the scene you had trouble with but even stronger output. That’s basically the entire sound design for the movie focusing on very strong 25-30Hz with some much deeper tones sprinkled throughout.

You shouldn’t be hearing anything bad from the subs either though, so it’s possible it’s distortion on your end. This is a very demanding movie for a pair of SB1000 to replicate at high volumes, but their DSP limiters are set very well to prevent what you described. It’s not a popping sound is it? That could be clipping, depending on your signal chain; this movie LFE is mixed very hot.
I meant they peak at around 80 db. NOt the average level. Sorry for confusion
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post #4 of 34 Old 05-01-2019, 10:50 AM
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2 subwoofers+2 bass shakers bottoming out???

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Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
I meant they peak at around 80 db. NOt the average level. Sorry for confusion
Well, that’s not too terribly loud then in a small room...hmmm. Might be something elsewhere in your pre/pro causing issues since it’s impacting your subs and shakers. Shouldn’t have any bad noises with that low of a level.

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Last edited by Sekosche; 05-01-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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post #5 of 34 Old 05-01-2019, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
If going by receiver volume, 80dB is actually reference level (or 0dBFS) for D&M receivers which is very loud, or do you mean you measured the levels with a microphone and the bass doesn’t hit 80dB often?

Are you running a HPF on your shakers? If so, try adding a lower one and replay the scene you’re having trouble with and tweak to taste.

I just played this timestamp at reference to check for you, and sounds great on my end. There’s quite a bit of ULF in this passage when the car is brought down with strong 25-30Hz and decent output down to 10Hz and a little below, but nothing that makes any awkward noises for me. If this is the only time in the movie you noticed it, there’s much heavier passages with deeper content that I would have thought would bottom out your shakers easier.

Try the short car landing scene at the beginning 0:03:40 and see if you hear any bad noises, lots of similar waveforms to the scene you had trouble with but even stronger output. That’s basically the entire sound design for the movie focusing on very strong 25-30Hz with some much deeper tones sprinkled throughout.

You shouldn’t be hearing anything bad from the subs either though, so it’s possible it’s distortion on your end. This is a very demanding movie for a pair of SB1000 to replicate at high volumes, but their DSP limiters are set very well to prevent what you described. It’s not a popping sound is it? That could be clipping, depending on your signal chain; this movie LFE is mixed very hot.
With peaks at around 80 db the average level is more like 65 db? That scene is not that loud either. Porbably around 70-75 db on my end
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post #6 of 34 Old 05-01-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
With peaks at around 80 db the average level is more like 65 db? That scene is not that loud either. Porbably around 70-75 db on my end

At that level and if it’s the only place you notice it, I don’t know what else to tell you outside of the previous suggestions. Strange indeed, could be your source material, but my disc sounds fine. Good luck!

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post #7 of 34 Old 05-01-2019, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
At that level and if it’s the only place you notice it, I don’t know what else to tell you outside of the previous suggestions. Strange indeed, could be your source material, but my disc sounds fine. Good luck!
I can notice it in Jurassic World fallen kingdom and mission impossible fallout aswell. I have no clue at what the problem is
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post #8 of 34 Old 05-01-2019, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
As for the bass shakers, the amp has that clipping warning on the front which i have not seen ever being lit up so i assume i'm not overdriving them.

The clip light doesn't have to come on to bottom out the shakers. They are clearly being over driven. They can't handle the frequencies that are being sent to them. Either they're not capable of frequencies that low, or you have a REQ or Dynamic EQ enabled that is overdriving them.
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post #9 of 34 Old 05-01-2019, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I noticed that truning down the gain on my avr solved the issue, so i'm just going to have to find a louder spot for my subwoofers
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post #10 of 34 Old 05-02-2019, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I have still not been able to fix this problem. Going to the scene that Sekosche listed neither my subwoofers or bass shakers showed any signs of struggling. It's only that scene that i mentioned. I don't get it? They can't handle a quiet note but handles the full thrust of that ship just fine?
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post #11 of 34 Old 05-03-2019, 03:00 PM
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Could maybe be the y-spliiter...? Try the problematic scenes without the y-splitter in the chain.

However, I'm going to guess that it is a certain frequency that the subs and shakers just don't like.

What AVR are you running? Did you run the auto-setup? If so, where did it set the sub trim??
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Could maybe be the y-spliiter...? Try the problematic scenes without the y-splitter in the chain.

However, I'm going to guess that it is a certain frequency that the subs and shakers just don't like.

What AVR are you running? Did you run the auto-setup? If so, where did it set the sub trim??
I have onkyo nr 676e. I don't use the auto setup. I have my subwoofers checked with REW to find the best spots and then i use spl meter+test tone to level calibrate my system (c-weighted btw). I'm starting to wonder if it is a sort of Connection problem or a problem with the reciever? I have switched Cables and that didn't fix it. Looking at the bass shakers, when putting my head right to them, they aren't distorting it's only the subs. I am 99% shure i'm not overdriving my subs? Very low volume and a reasonable reciever and subwoofer gain. I have noticed this same problem on some other discs but it's really weird that they don't make the noise on full demand but makes the distortions on more quiet scenes. Going right up to the suwoofers they make a sort of flapping sound (almost like dud-dud-dud but in a higher frequency). It sounds like some kind of mechanical noise, but looking at the subwoofers on that full thrust scene they go much further in and out than the scene they struggle on. I feel so hopeless
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post #13 of 34 Old 05-03-2019, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Could maybe be the y-spliiter...? Try the problematic scenes without the y-splitter in the chain.

However, I'm going to guess that it is a certain frequency that the subs and shakers just don't like.

What AVR are you running? Did you run the auto-setup? If so, where did it set the sub trim??
Bw to completly get rid of the weird noise up close i have to put it at around 12 o'clock and -3. This so friggin low for this subwoofer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Could maybe be the y-spliiter...? Try the problematic scenes without the y-splitter in the chain.

However, I'm going to guess that it is a certain frequency that the subs and shakers just don't like.

What AVR are you running? Did you run the auto-setup? If so, where did it set the sub trim??
Both of them at 3 0'clock and gain at -8
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post #15 of 34 Old 05-03-2019, 03:41 PM
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The noise should be exacerbated by specific frequencies, probably at a particular volume threshold.

Use the REW generator to run a linear sweep, 10Hz to 200Hz, with a 60 second duration. Loop it, and keep increasing the volume with each sweep until you hear the noise. Make a note of the frequencies that you hear the noise, especially the lowest frequency. Then use the sinewave generator to figure verify the system level where that lowest frequency starts causing a problem.

You could discuss the frequency and level with the SVS techs, to see if specifics give them new ideas. You could try to fix it yourself, maybe something is loose. Or you could try avoiding the frequencies at the levels that cause the problem.

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So, the shakers are NOT making any bad noises, just the subs?

When you say you used an SPL meter + test tone, do you mean REW's SPL meter? If so, you want that set to "Z" weighting.

What SPL did you use as a target for all speakers/subs (75dB, 85dB)? Where was the master volume set during this setup phase (should be "0")? And, if you were using REW's tone generator, at what level was the output set (should be -30dBfs if shooting for 75dB)?

Are you sitting in a deep null? If you are, you may have the subs cranked too high and are over-driving them to get decent output at the MLP. Can we see a frequency response graph?

Since you did not run the auto-setup, how did you determine speaker distances? If you are using the physical distances for your subs, that is most likely incorrect. The inherent delay induced by the sub's amps has to be accounted for, and most auto-setup routines get this right (although this probably has nothing to do with your immediate issue).

I am not personally familiar with your subs, but 3 o'clock sounds a bit high. I think most folks are closer to noon/1 o'clock.


EDIT: Also, make absolutely certain that the noise you are hearing is not a sympathetic vibration coming from something in the room (walls, paneling, knick-knacks, pictures, etc.).
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post #17 of 34 Old 05-03-2019, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
Bw to completly get rid of the weird noise up close i have to put it at around 12 o'clock and -3. This so friggin low for this subwoofer
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Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
Both of them at 3 0'clock and gain at -8
Just re-reading and noticed this little anomaly....

You say that you had to turn it to "12 o'clock and -3" to stop the noise...but at "3 o'clock and -8" it makes the noise. These two settings are probably more alike than they are different. You are aware that "-3" is higher than "-8", right??

Do those two settings basically sound the same? I'm guessing they are pretty close to each other in overall output.
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post #18 of 34 Old 05-03-2019, 05:22 PM
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At any volume level I get massive port noise with anything lower than 18hz with my sub. This makes mine work extra hard even on -35dB. I recently got a frequency generator app and I connect via Bluetooth to my receiver to have my system play it. It easily allows you to detect nulls and peaks with a 30$ SPL meter. With the app, I play a note for a few seconds and take notice of the measurement and work my way down in frequencies of 10. I was very surprised once I hit 18 and at 14 it's really bad. Try doing the frequency generator and see if it's having trouble at a certain frequency as mine is. Your room isn't that big that I would think that you don't have enough power for it.

Doh...just noticed you have sealed subs and Rew. Do the recommended sweep and you will figure it out.

Last edited by miketofani; 05-03-2019 at 05:27 PM.
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Just re-reading and noticed this little anomaly....

You say that you had to turn it to "12 o'clock and -3" to stop the noise...but at "3 o'clock and -8" it makes the noise. These two settings are probably more alike than they are different. You are aware that "-3" is higher than "-8", right??

Do those two settings basically sound the same? I'm guessing they are pretty close to each other in overall output.
What sweep do you want me to do? I noticed that a lot of the ones on Youtube seems to have distortion from the video itself (my headphones and subwoofers make the exact same sound in some clips on youtube so not sure if i'ts the right way to do it).
Using the spl meter on those also has huge peaks and dips whereas with REW it's pretty darn flat with the lowest dip at 5 db and the highest peak at 2 db
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What sweep do you want me to do? I noticed that a lot of the ones on Youtube seems to have distortion from the video itself (my headphones and subwoofers make the exact same sound in some clips on youtube so not sure if i'ts the right way to do it).
Using the spl meter on those also has huge peaks and dips whereas with REW it's pretty darn flat with the lowest dip at 5 db and the highest peak at 2 db
Ah oops that was for miketofani
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Quote:
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Just re-reading and noticed this little anomaly....

You say that you had to turn it to "12 o'clock and -3" to stop the noise...but at "3 o'clock and -8" it makes the noise. These two settings are probably more alike than they are different. You are aware that "-3" is higher than "-8", right??

Do those two settings basically sound the same? I'm guessing they are pretty close to each other in overall output.
No not really. Do keep in mind that this is when up Close to the sub. In my seating position i have to put it at -12 ish to completly get rid of it so it's not too far off but i really care about accuracy and it's around 5db lower at that point
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Darn it i'm starting to want to give up
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Is this a lost cause? There is nothing i can do to fix this without having the subwoofer or reciever way too low.
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post #24 of 34 Old 05-04-2019, 10:05 AM
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Have you tried isolating things and using just one sub (no splitters), then the other sub, then both? And then do the same thing with the bass shakers. See if any/all bottom out on their own. I don't know for sure, but it seems kind of odd that either everything bottoms out or nothing does. Especially as, if you say, the source materiel is not that loud or demanding.

Maybe somehow one 'defective' unit is affecting the others?? Probably a stretch, but I'd say worth a try running everything individually.
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Have you tried isolating things and using just one sub (no splitters), then the other sub, then both? And then do the same thing with the bass shakers. See if any/all bottom out on their own. I don't know for sure, but it seems kind of odd that either everything bottoms out or nothing does. Especially as, if you say, the source materiel is not that loud or demanding.

Maybe somehow one 'defective' unit is affecting the others?? Probably a stretch, but I'd say worth a try running everything individually.
I have tried without the Daisy chaining Before and it didn't fix. One of the subwoofers have the isolation feet installed and the other one a thick towel to isolate from floor. The subwoofers are the only things tha botton out, not the bass shakers. Turning of one of them off and then the same thing with the other it's still there, it's definently in both of the subs. I see only 2 viable options for me to really fix this, since i have tried EVERY possible combination of them in the room and if i want to level calibrate them the sound is Always there. I could either add more of these subwoofers (1 or 2) or buy 2 svs pb 1000's. The thing is i'm very satisfyed with these subwoofers and i'm a perfectionist so watching a Movie with these makes me nervous that
it will just ruin the entire experience (which i Think it already does for me). It sucks becuase i bought the bass shakers instead of 2 sb 2000's since i figured they would give me much better shake and a better experience instead of buying 2 subwoofers way out of my budget
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post #26 of 34 Old 05-04-2019, 10:22 AM
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I see. In your OP you stated the bass shakers were bottoming out as well.

I am far from an expert so not really sure. I guess somehow you are exceeding the limits of the sub? Have you tried getting in touch with SVS? They are very helpful.

I'd maybe look at a single pb 2000 and then maybe add another down the road as budget permits. That is what I did.
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post #27 of 34 Old 05-04-2019, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pheare View Post
I see. In your OP you stated the bass shakers were bottoming out as well.

I am far from an expert so not really sure. I guess somehow you are exceeding the limits of the sub? Have you tried getting in touch with SVS? They are very helpful.

I'd maybe look at a single pb 2000 and then maybe add another down the road as budget permits. That is what I did.
Yes i Think it somehow is somehow a limitations even though the quiet volume. Pb 2000? My room is only 700 cubic feet. I'm not shure how well it would work in my room. Man all these subwfooers are so expensive. 2 pb 2000 is to much and i already spent 300 bucks for these bass shakers. I read also that adding a third subwoofer only adds 3db which still wouldn't get me to where i want. Ah gosh i hate this. What's the thing with the terrible output on these things? 700 cubic feet and dual subwoofers for 500 each should give me plenty headroom without any distortion. I don't feel motivated at all to go look for new subwoofers or spend much more Money than i already have on this
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post #28 of 34 Old 05-04-2019, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I see. In your OP you stated the bass shakers were bottoming out as well.

I am far from an expert so not really sure. I guess somehow you are exceeding the limits of the sub? Have you tried getting in touch with SVS? They are very helpful.

I'd maybe look at a single pb 2000 and then maybe add another down the road as budget permits. That is what I did.
1 pb 1000 or 2 pb 1000's would probably give me enough volume but all these people say that ported boxes are terrible for very small room and i care about accuracy very much
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post #29 of 34 Old 05-04-2019, 10:37 AM
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Yes i Think it somehow is somehow a limitations even though the quiet volume. Pb 2000? My room is only 700 cubic feet. I'm not shure how well it would work in my room. Man all these subwfooers are so expensive. 2 pb 2000 is to much and i already spent 300 bucks for these bass shakers. I read also that adding a third subwoofer only adds 3db which still wouldn't get me to where i want. Ah gosh i hate this. What's the thing with the terrible output on these things? 700 cubic feet and dual subwoofers for 500 each should give me plenty headroom without any distortion. I don't feel motivated at all to go look for new subwoofers or spend much more Money than i already have on this
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1 pb 1000 or 2 pb 1000's would probably give me enough volume but all these people say that ported boxes are terrible for very small room and i care about accuracy very much
Fair enough. Something does sound off. Next thing I’d do is get in touch with SVS and get their thoughts. They really are helpful and responsive. Perhaps you were just unlucky and got your subs from a ‘bad batch’ or something. I dunno.

Maybe they’d be willing to take back your subs and you could try a single sb 2000. Or maybe even try the pb and see how you like or don’t like it.
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I managed to resolve the issue. I realized i had a spare old ported (pretty bad) subwoofer laying around. It was the one i used Before i got my svs subs. I connected it to the system, integrated it and the avr gain is now at -11 instead of -8. The noise is pretty much not present anymore. Thank you all for helping
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