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post #91 of 220 Old 05-13-2019, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
As a general rule, it isn't a good idea to plug subwoofers into power strips. The recommendation is usually to plug them straight into wall outlets.

The best way to do a sub crawl is to put the sub at your listening position (on the bed where your head would be, in this case) play something with strong and steady bass content, and then move around the room with your head or your SPL meter at subwoofer height, when the sub is sitting on the floor. (That's the crawl part.) You are listening/measuring for the location in the room where the bass is the strongest. The sub is where your ears would be, and your head or your SPL meter is where the sub would be. And, the height matters!

If there isn't any location in the room where the sub sounds stronger than any others, which is fairly unlikely, that means that the listening position itself is in a large null. In that case, your best bet would be to pull the bed out from the wall a little, or try the other side of the bed, if its a queen bed, or to use dual subwoofers in an effort to eliminate the null.

You have to physically move a subwoofer out of a null, or modify the null with a second subwoofer, and you have to physically move a listening position out of a null. The listening position is harder to modify with the addition of a second subwoofer. The good news is that even moving a listening position by a foot or so may sometimes help.

But, be systematic! You can't do just one thing right. You need to do everything right, starting with plugging the sub into wall outlets, with longer cords if necessary, and continuing with a sub crawl. Then, once you have found the best possible location for the sub, you can calibrate it and proceed from there. And, those steps have to be performed systematically as well.

Sometimes people get lucky. They put their sub somewhere, plug it in, and it sounds great. Sometimes, people have difficult rooms that require more effort. In that case, being diligent in your approach is your best bet. You can also continue to talk with SVS. Having someone stay on the line to talk you through each step may help.

Posting every few minutes, on the other hand, will get you a lot of random advice, but may not actually move you much closer to a solution. Hang in there! Technology is frustrating for every single one of us at times. Ask me how I know!

Regards,
Mike
Thank you for the suggestions. I have found that the test tones seem to be seomewhere between 60-70 hz? I noticed that as i raise or lower only that range the subwoofer gets louder when using the test tones. Btw this suwboofer is already too big for my room. Only really 3 places i can put it. Front corner, left corner or mid way along the left wall so the sub crawl would not help me. When having the suwboofer in the left corner i noticed that the entire room is pretty quiet except for my back left corner where my door is, so i could not sit there. Even when having it in my front right corner it's still the same thing. Not sure this is relevant becuase going right up to it it's still pretty quiet.

Also i'm pretty confused at how nulls work at this point. I thought a null is a hole in the response. Meaning a 20 db null at 40 hz or something like that. But when measuring i get a pretty flat response with no major concerning nulls. Are you saying my listening position is just making EVERY frequency a null?
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post #92 of 220 Old 05-13-2019, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
As a general rule, it isn't a good idea to plug subwoofers into power strips. The recommendation is usually to plug them straight into wall outlets.

The best way to do a sub crawl is to put the sub at your listening position (on the bed where your head would be, in this case) play something with strong and steady bass content, and then move around the room with your head or your SPL meter at subwoofer height, when the sub is sitting on the floor. (That's the crawl part.) You are listening/measuring for the location in the room where the bass is the strongest. The sub is where your ears would be, and your head or your SPL meter is where the sub would be. And, the height matters!

If there isn't any location in the room where the sub sounds stronger than any others, which is fairly unlikely, that means that the listening position itself is in a large null. In that case, your best bet would be to pull the bed out from the wall a little, or try the other side of the bed, if its a queen bed, or to use dual subwoofers in an effort to eliminate the null.

You have to physically move a subwoofer out of a null, or modify the null with a second subwoofer, and you have to physically move a listening position out of a null. The listening position is harder to modify with the addition of a second subwoofer. The good news is that even moving a listening position by a foot or so may sometimes help.

But, be systematic! You can't do just one thing right. You need to do everything right, starting with plugging the sub into wall outlets, with longer cords if necessary, and continuing with a sub crawl. Then, once you have found the best possible location for the sub, you can calibrate it and proceed from there. And, those steps have to be performed systematically as well.

Sometimes people get lucky. They put their sub somewhere, plug it in, and it sounds great. Sometimes, people have difficult rooms that require more effort. In that case, being diligent in your approach is your best bet. You can also continue to talk with SVS. Having someone stay on the line to talk you through each step may help.

Posting every few minutes, on the other hand, will get you a lot of random advice, but may not actually move you much closer to a solution. Hang in there! Technology is frustrating for every single one of us at times. Ask me how I know!

Regards,
Mike
Yeah you're probably right i'm pretty much spamming this thread at this Point. It's annoying because i had the same issue with my old suwboofer and couldn't fix it for a year. It just feels like i'm waisting so much time for nothing you know? I have been sitting by my computer the entire day yesterday and today trying to fix this
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post #93 of 220 Old 05-13-2019, 02:21 PM
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A couple of questions I haven't seen asked yet;

1) What mic are you using with REW, and do you have a calibration file loaded for it?
2) You say you listen around 80-90dB, is that as measured with REW during viewing or as indicated by your AVR's volume display?


Just FYI; bass will always be much stronger in corners and along walls. Just because you noticed this does not mean you are not getting good output and good response at the MLP.
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post #94 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
A couple of questions I haven't seen asked yet;

1) What mic are you using with REW, and do you have a calibration file loaded for it?
2) You say you listen around 80-90dB, is that as measured with REW during viewing or as indicated by your AVR's volume display?


Just FYI; bass will always be much stronger in corners and along walls. Just because you noticed this does not mean you are not getting good output and good response at the MLP.
I measure with UMK-1 and yes i have a calibration file. When i say 80 db i mean in content while Reading with my spl meter. Also i measure REW around 85-100 db
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post #95 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 08:44 AM
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HOw low do you have to lower it so the flapping sound goes away?

I had that exact same thing going on, sounded exactly like a cloth flapping or snapping flat, and had to keep lowering the volume
lower than I wanted in parts of movies where it happened until I stumbled on the fix, which isn't practical here (diy). 700 CUBIC feet?! That thing should be tearing the walls apart in that small of space. Still in your return window?
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post #96 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
I measure with UMK-1 and yes i have a calibration file. When i say 80 db i mean in content while Reading with my spl meter. Also i measure REW around 85-100 db
"C" weighted SPL meter?
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post #97 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
"C" weighted SPL meter?
I was wondering this also. If the SPL meter is A-weighted, it would explain why the OP believes the playback level is at 80 dB.

An A-weighted SPL meter can't be used, nor can a smart phone SPL meter app. Neither of them are accurate or reliable.

I would use REW as the SPL meter - make sure the UMIK-1 cal file is loaded properly into REW and it's set to Z-weighted aka unweighted (not c-weighted or A-weighted).

Let's get back to basics in the AVR and with set-up:
  • Set all speakers are set to Small.
  • Set the crossover for all channels to 80 Hz.
  • Connect one (1) RCA cable from the AVR to the PB-2000.
  • Set the PB-2000 low pass to LFE and the phase to 0.
  • Set the AVR master volume to reference level (usually 0 dB if the master volume scale is set to read negative toward positive).
  • Play the internal loudspeaker test tones from the AVR and using the internal trim levels, adjust each channel until REW is reading 75 dB (unweighted/slow with the UMIK-1 at the MLP at head level).
  • Set the AVR subwoofer channel level to -5.
  • Play the internal subwoofer test tone from the AVR and adjust the gain on the PB-200 until REW is reading 75 dB (unweighted/slow with the UMIK-1 at the MLP at head level).

Again the above assumes the cal file for the UMIK-1 is properly loaded and that REW is accurately functioning as an SPL meter.

Without adjusting the subwoofer level (in the AVR or at the subwoofer), play BR 2049 Blu-ray at AVR master volume -15 (which is about the same level as you would encounter in a commercial cinema) and let us know how the subwoofer sounds.
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post #98 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post
HOw low do you have to lower it so the flapping sound goes away?

I had that exact same thing going on, sounded exactly like a cloth flapping or snapping flat, and had to keep lowering the volume
lower than I wanted in parts of movies where it happened until I stumbled on the fix, which isn't practical here (diy). 700 CUBIC feet?! That thing should be tearing the walls apart in that small of space. Still in your return window?
Around 5 db on the av trim
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post #99 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
"C" weighted SPL meter?
Yes it's a c weighted one
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post #100 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
I was wondering this also. If the SPL meter is A-weighted, it would explain why the OP believes the playback level is at 80 dB.

An A-weighted SPL meter can't be used, nor can a smart phone SPL meter app. Neither of them are accurate or reliable.

I would use REW as the SPL meter - make sure the UMIK-1 cal file is loaded properly into REW and it's set to Z-weighted aka unweighted (not c-weighted or A-weighted).

Let's get back to basics in the AVR and with set-up:
  • Set all speakers are set to Small.
  • Set the crossover for all channels to 80 Hz.
  • Connect one (1) RCA cable from the AVR to the PB-2000.
  • Set the PB-2000 low pass to LFE and the phase to 0.
  • Set the AVR master volume to reference level (usually 0 dB if the master volume scale is set to read negative toward positive).
  • Play the internal loudspeaker test tones from the AVR and using the internal trim levels, adjust each channel until REW is reading 75 dB (unweighted/slow with the UMIK-1 at the MLP at head level).
  • Set the AVR subwoofer channel level to -5.
  • Play the internal subwoofer test tone from the AVR and adjust the gain on the PB-200 until REW is reading 75 dB (unweighted/slow with the UMIK-1 at the MLP at head level).

Again the above assumes the cal file for the UMIK-1 is properly loaded and that REW is accurately functioning as an SPL meter.

Without adjusting the subwoofer level (in the AVR or at the subwoofer), play BR 2049 Blu-ray at AVR master volume -15 (which is about the same level as you would encounter in a commercial cinema) and let us know how the subwoofer sounds.
Hi noob question what do you mean by the calibration file properly loaded? I never used the spl meter in REW because to hit 75 db i would have to lower the suwboofer very low. Can anyone inform me how to do this?
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post #101 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
I was wondering this also. If the SPL meter is A-weighted, it would explain why the OP believes the playback level is at 80 dB.

An A-weighted SPL meter can't be used, nor can a smart phone SPL meter app. Neither of them are accurate or reliable.

I would use REW as the SPL meter - make sure the UMIK-1 cal file is loaded properly into REW and it's set to Z-weighted aka unweighted (not c-weighted or A-weighted).

Let's get back to basics in the AVR and with set-up:
  • Set all speakers are set to Small.
  • Set the crossover for all channels to 80 Hz.
  • Connect one (1) RCA cable from the AVR to the PB-2000.
  • Set the PB-2000 low pass to LFE and the phase to 0.
  • Set the AVR master volume to reference level (usually 0 dB if the master volume scale is set to read negative toward positive).
  • Play the internal loudspeaker test tones from the AVR and using the internal trim levels, adjust each channel until REW is reading 75 dB (unweighted/slow with the UMIK-1 at the MLP at head level).
  • Set the AVR subwoofer channel level to -5.
  • Play the internal subwoofer test tone from the AVR and adjust the gain on the PB-200 until REW is reading 75 dB (unweighted/slow with the UMIK-1 at the MLP at head level).

Again the above assumes the cal file for the UMIK-1 is properly loaded and that REW is accurately functioning as an SPL meter.

Without adjusting the subwoofer level (in the AVR or at the subwoofer), play BR 2049 Blu-ray at AVR master volume -15 (which is about the same level as you would encounter in a commercial cinema) and let us know how the subwoofer sounds.
It's super clean at -15 but the bass is very low. It goes away if i lower it to -9 ish and even then it's quite below properly calibrated. I would assume a c weighted spl meter would be fine to level calibrate though? It's what i've always heard
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post #102 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post
HOw low do you have to lower it so the flapping sound goes away?

I had that exact same thing going on, sounded exactly like a cloth flapping or snapping flat, and had to keep lowering the volume
lower than I wanted in parts of movies where it happened until I stumbled on the fix, which isn't practical here (diy). 700 CUBIC feet?! That thing should be tearing the walls apart in that small of space. Still in your return window?
I can't return it i'm in Sweden. ALso i had the same issue with 2 sb 1000's so i doubt buying a new one would fix it.
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post #103 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
Hi noob question what do you mean by the calibration file properly loaded? I never used the spl meter in REW because to hit 75 db i would have to lower the suwboofer very low. Can anyone inform me how to do this?
He means properly loaded into REW here (where it says "none" in my pic):




Quote:
Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
It's super clean at -15 but the bass is very low. It goes away if i lower it to -9 ish and even then it's quite below properly calibrated. I would assume a c weighted spl meter would be fine to level calibrate though? It's what i've always heard
What do you mean by "properly calibrated"? Do you mean the sub trim setting that gives you 75dB at the MLP using the AVR's internal tones and your hand-held SPL meter?

Depends on the SPL meter...which one are you using?

You said earlier "about 5db on the AV trim" and then you said -15 and -9....I'm pretty confused at this point.
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post #104 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
He means properly loaded into REW here (where it says "none" in my pic):






What do you mean by "properly calibrated"? Do you mean the sub trim setting that gives you 75dB at the MLP using the AVR's internal tones and your hand-held SPL meter?

Depends on the SPL meter...which one are you using?

You said earlier "about 5db on the AV trim" and then you said -15 and -9....I'm pretty confused at this point.
I meant i have to lower it from my current setting (-4 db) to - 9b. Also just an update i moved the suwboofer closer by the left wall and now it's at -7 db so it's a Little better.
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post #105 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
He means properly loaded into REW here (where it says "none" in my pic):






What do you mean by "properly calibrated"? Do you mean the sub trim setting that gives you 75dB at the MLP using the AVR's internal tones and your hand-held SPL meter?

Depends on the SPL meter...which one are you using?

You said earlier "about 5db on the AV trim" and then you said -15 and -9....I'm pretty confused at this point.
https://www.kjell.com/se/sortiment/e...lmatare-p48705

Also by properly calibrated i meant going into my test tones whipping out the spl meter at the listening position and make sure every channel hits 75 db
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post #106 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I meant i have to lower it from my current setting (-4 db) to - 9b. Also just an update i moved the suwboofer closer by the left wall and now it's at -7 db so it's a Little better.
2 o'clock and -7 db should be a pretty safe value right? I'm going to try the scene again.
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post #107 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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2 o'clock and -7 db should be a pretty safe value right? I'm going to try the scene again.
So going back to the scene with the 2 0'clock and -7 on reciever was a mixed bag. When i first played the scene it was prominent. Going back to the scene again i could hear. But then i could not hear it. I then got Close to it and could hear. Played the scene again anc could not hear it. Even when not changing the settings! I need to add that while the flapping sound is there it's not nearly as bad as it was with my sb 1000's. Should not be making the noise, tho
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post #108 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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So going back to the scene with the 2 0'clock and -7 on reciever was a mixed bag. When i first played the scene it was prominent. Going back to the scene again i could hear. But then i could not hear it. I then got Close to it and could hear. Played the scene again anc could not hear it. Even when not changing the settings! I need to add that while the flapping sound is there it's not nearly as bad as it was with my sb 1000's. Should not be making the noise, tho
It seems to go away and come back at random. Very weird
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post #109 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:23 PM
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post #110 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
2 o'clock and -7 db should be a pretty safe value right? I'm going to try the scene again.
We have no idea what this combination results in with respect to actual calibration level. The only way to be sure the subwoofer is level matched with the speaker channels is to follow my previous guidance step by step.

The SPL meter you linked is A-weighted, which is what we suspected.
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post #111 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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We have no idea what this combination results in with respect to actual calibration level. The only way to be sure the subwoofer is level matched with the speaker channels is to follow my previous guidance step by step.

The SPL meter you linked is A-weighted, which is what we suspected.
Okay that makes sense. I Always just sort off assumed it was c weighted huh. Anyways yes i will try to level calibrate with REW instead. Thank you very much Ed
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post #112 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
We have no idea what this combination results in with respect to actual calibration level. The only way to be sure the subwoofer is level matched with the speaker channels is to follow my previous guidance step by step.

The SPL meter you linked is A-weighted, which is what we suspected.
I'm still not sure i'm doing this right. To clarify, is the calibration file the 90 degree text ot just the text?
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post #113 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm still not sure i'm doing this right. To clarify, is the calibration file the 90 degree text ot just the text?
the subwoofer level is very loud. When my speakers hit around 57 db the subwoofer hits 75 db. Sure this is right?
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post #114 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 01:01 PM
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I'm still not sure i'm doing this right. To clarify, is the calibration file the 90 degree text ot just the text?
Depends on how you have the mic setup (like this: | or like this: ---).


From MiniDSPs website:
Quote:
The UMIK-1 comes with two unique calibration files:
- 0deg: Point the microphone towards the sound source being measured. This calibration is so called on-axis calibration file.
- 90deg: Point the microphone towards the ceiling. This calibration file is only to be used for surround sound measurement (i.e. audio coming from multiple directions). For Dirac Live applications (e.g. DDRC-88A, nanoAVR DL), you should always use the 90deg file.
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the subwoofer level is very loud. When my speakers hit around 57 db the subwoofer hits 75 db. Sure this is right?
You just like your sub 'hot.' When I use my UM18-22, I have it at ~90dB and my speakers at ~70dB. Are you still getting the flapping noise (or whatever it was that made you think the sub was defective)?

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post #115 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 01:06 PM
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Just to give you an idea of the difference between A-weighted, C-weighted and Z-weighted - go here.

In the bandwidth of the subwoofer test tone - an A-weighted SPL meter will read about 30-40 dB too low. Meaning if the meter says 75 dB, it's actually about 110 dB. This explains why the subwoofer is overloading at what you thought was a level match.

If you were using this SPL meter to calibrate your SB-1000s, it would also explain why they were overloading too.

Please use the SPL meter in REW after you load the UMIK-1 calibration file. Be sure to select Z-weighted (i.e., unweighted).

If you aren't sure how to load the UMIK-1 cal file, Alan P is an expert user and can assist you.
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post #116 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JediMindTrick View Post
Depends on how you have the mic setup (like this: | or like this: ---).


From MiniDSPs website:


You just like your sub 'hot.' When I use my UM18-22, I have it at ~90dB and my speakers at ~70dB. Are you still getting the flapping noise (or whatever it was that made you think the sub was defective)?
So should it be 20 db louder? Because level calibrating with this is laughably low for the suwboofer
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post #117 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
So should it be 20 db louder? Because level calibrating with this is laughably low for the suwboofer
You just have it set so it is 20dB louder (sorry, I thought you had it setup that way). It should be whatever you 'want.' I like my sub "hot," so I have my low freqs boosted pretty high.



If you want it to match, cut the gain on the sub.
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post #118 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
I'm still not sure i'm doing this right. To clarify, is the calibration file the 90 degree text ot just the text?
You would load the 90deg.txt file into REW preferences as I showed. Using the 90 degree calibration file, you want the mic pointing at the ceiling when measuring.

Your "A" weighted SPL meter is probably reading anywhere from 20-40dB lower than a "C" weighted meter with the sub setup tones. Could be even more. You have REW and a calibrated mic...use them.

Just as suspected from the start, you are over-driving the sub and that is what is causing the bad noises.



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post #119 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Droidboi View Post
So should it be 20 db louder? Because level calibrating with this is laughably low for the suwboofer
When doing what you say no. It goes away with 2 o'clock and -9 and doing what you did landed me at -10.
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post #120 of 220 Old 05-14-2019, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You would load the 90deg.txt file into REW preferences as I showed. Using the 90 degree calibration file, you want the mic pointing at the ceiling when measuring.

Your "A" weighted SPL meter is probably reading anywhere from 20-40dB lower than a "C" weighted meter with the sub setup tones. Could be even more. You have REW and a calibrated mic...use them.

Just as suspected from the start, you are over-driving the sub and that is what is causing the bad noises.



Seems like it. Now that i Think about it the suwboofer does sound pretty boomy with my original settings. Using the REW the noise will 100% gone
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