Hsu vs SVS vs RSL vs Monolith vs Rythmik - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 83 Old 05-18-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by z3roz View Post
I've read reviews, looked at graphs, read comments, and still have no idea.
Your old sub was a vented 15" 750 watt servo sub.

Let's pretend that Rhythmik's claim that it gets more SPL from its execution of servo than Velodyne means that your old sub was approximately equivalent to the $1399 Rhythmik FV15HP 15" vented servo sub with 600 watts.

Adding a second sub gives you about +6db than using a single sub.

So, using Rhythmiks own SPL levels at 20hz, two $599 300 watt LV12Fs will yield a "loss" of just 2.5db max spl at 20 hz.

If you didn't run your old sub at its absolute maximum you should be just fine with two LV12Fs.

Your old sub was (H/W/D): 21 x 18.375 x 20.75 inches (with grille), the LV12F is 22" (H) x 16 "(W) x (D) 20-1/2" D with grille and amplifier knobs)

So you may, indeed, be forced by aesthetics to get a pair of RSL Speedwoofers or PB1000s.

Good news is BOTH those companies offer free returns.

Start with one of each and decide which you prefer and return the loser.

If you feel you need +6db more output with the winner, simply add a second.

Sure the RSL doesn't dig below 20hz like the 12" ported subs from HSU/Rhythmik/Monoprice THX but it might give you everything you need.

The PB1000 does dig deeper.

350watts =15w16h17d= 40 lbs 10" [30hz] $399 RSL SPEEDWOOFER 10S, (extension from Sound & Vision review)

300watts =15w19h20d= 46 lbs 10" [18hz] $499 SVS PB1000, (extension from Sound & Vision Review)

500watts =15w19h20d= 72 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH THX 10"

300watts =16w22h21d= 69 lbs* 12" [19hz] $569 RHYTHMIK LV12F

350watts =15w21h22d= 62 lbs 12" [18hz] $607 HSU VTF2 MK5, (extension from Audioholics review)

First chart is the PB1000 as indicated and the second chart is from Sound & Vision for the RSL.




Geoff A. J., California

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post #32 of 83 Old 05-18-2019, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I ran the Velo gain at 20/80 and 0db on the AVR. I certainly don't want to spend $1k and have less output. The velo rattled walls but you couldn't feel the bass at all, just hear it. Rattling walls to me isn't a qualifier though, because even my LG 6.5" soundbar can buzz the frames on the wall.
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post #33 of 83 Old 05-18-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by z3roz View Post
Been reading a lot over the past few days and I'm no closer to a decision. I've received solid advice on another thread but I'd like to narrow down the discussion.

Background: had a DEQ-15R that gave up the ghost. I was happy with it except for room modes at 40-50hz. I'm not interested in repairing the Velo, so I'm looking for duals now in the +- $1000 range, which puts several subs within striking distance:

Monolith THX 10
SVS PB1000
Hsu VTF-1F
Rythmik L12
RSL Speedwoofer 10s

Size is a factor, i.e. the Hsu is pushing it. Some other considerations:

Room: 3500ft^3 (30x15x8), 3 windows, one slider, one hall opening, carpeted, two full size couches in an L shape, lots of reflection points, no option for traps.
Placement: Front LR only
MLP distance: 13ft
Speakers: Paradigm Mini Monitors, CC-190, ADP-190
AVR: Marantz 6012
Content: 95% Movies (action)
Size limitation: 20" depth total. Height and width reasonable.
Listening level: -10 to -5 from Reference

I have no experience with any of these brands. The Velo was very good, to me, and the best I've owned so far, for a 9 year old sub.

I had an integrator come out to listen and he said I've got room modes and no impact with the single Velo. I guess I didn't know what I didn't know. He recommended dual PB1000's or PB2000's if I could stomach it. I called SVS and they said the same.

I'm leaning towards the PB1000 route for the mere fact that within 1 year I can upgrade, which is nice flexibility to have.

I've read reviews, looked at graphs, read comments, and still have no idea.
For what it's worth.

I have a similar size room and had a Monolith 10 which is an awesome Sub however was not enough for my size room and WAF prevented me getting another one. I also had similar size restrictions. After much research I was directed to Kevin at HSU who recommended the HSU ULS 15 MK-2. I was concerned that it was a sealed sub for a room my size but Kevin assured me it would work. It is 19X19X19 so the size was perfect.

I am amazed at how well this sub accurately fills the space for Movies and music. It will rattle the room or hang in the background with subtle deep bass that is amazing. I may not need one but if I can get the WAF on board I may gt another one.

Here are a few reviews.

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...hsu-uls-15-mk2

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...woofer-review/

Happy hunting-the sub woofer chase never seems to end.

PG55

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post #34 of 83 Old 05-18-2019, 01:48 PM
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Have you looked at the Outlaw x12? You can get duals under $1300 (free shipping)

Speakers: KEF Q100 / Q300 / Q750 / Q650C, Fluance Signature Series Bookshelf / SX6 / XL5F, Mirage M-190 Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2), BIC H100-II Receiver: Denon AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501, Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Headphones: Philips SPH9500s, Audio Tech. ATH-M40x, Takstar Pro 82.
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post #35 of 83 Old 05-18-2019, 03:25 PM
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Have you looked at the Outlaw x12? You can get duals under $1300 (free shipping)
Adding another option? Man, you will have to take the responsibility when he throws himself off the top of a building ...



So, upon further reflection, the OP needs to decide if he is really going to limit the size of the sub, or not! Can't put a 20" depth limit on the choice, then say you are going to go demo a PB2000! So, my suggestion would be to decide what the size limit is going to be, or if that criterion is going to be deep-sixed in favor of more output. Making that decision will help get to the final decision. Otherwise it's just going to be a morass of circular logic and lying to oneself.


It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #36 of 83 Old 05-18-2019, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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It'd probably be best for me to post pictures of the room. I'll do that tomorrow if I have time. I have a spot on the right that's in a corner that can handle really any size sub. On the left side I have a window that's 20" from the edge of the media console. There's no where else in the room to hide another sub unless I get small ones. Of course, there's tons of room behind the sofa where a sofa table resides, but putting a big black box there ain't gonna fly considering the sofa table also doubles as extra seating. We can seat 13 people in our living room and it needs to stay that way. On the left side of the room is a small table and two wingback chairs. If the sub were small enough it could go behind the chairs. That's why I was going to add a Velo Minivee, because I could disappear it easily, but now I realize a 15" and an 8" wouldn't have worked too well.

I may just have to settle for one sub until I move houses and build a dedicated theater room.
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post #37 of 83 Old 05-18-2019, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by macgallant View Post
Have you looked at the Outlaw x12? You can get duals under $1300 (free shipping)
Adding another option? Man, you will have to take the responsibility when he throws himself off the top of a building ... [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]

[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

So, upon further reflection, the OP needs to decide if he is really going to limit the size of the sub, or not! Can't put a 20" depth limit on the choice, then say you are going to go demo a PB2000! So, my suggestion would be to decide what the size limit is going to be, or if that criterion is going to be deep-sixed in favor of more output. Making that decision will help get to the final decision. Otherwise it's just going to be a morass of circular logic and lying to oneself.

[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG]
Yeah no kidding lol!

The 20" depth limit is due to the depth of the media console from the wall. Can't pull it out further without leaving too big of a space behind it, so when you come down the stairs you see wires and the back of the 70". The biggest trouble I have is trying to work with the asthetic. My wife even wanted me to chalk paint the Velo so it didn't look like a mini fridge in the corner...
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post #38 of 83 Old 05-18-2019, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually, here is a picture. Kinda dark but shows the left and right of the TV.
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post #39 of 83 Old 05-18-2019, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Your old sub was a vented 15" 750 watt servo sub.

Let's pretend that Rhythmik's claim that it gets more SPL from its execution of servo than Velodyne means that your old sub was approximately equivalent to the $1399 Rhythmik FV15HP 15" vented servo sub with 600 watts.

Adding a second sub gives you about +6db than using a single sub.

So, using Rhythmiks own SPL levels at 20hz, two $599 300 watt LV12Fs will yield a "loss" of just 2.5db max spl at 20 hz.

If you didn't run your old sub at its absolute maximum you should be just fine with two LV12Fs.
Except your numbers are so wrong it hurts. We have direct comparison numbers between the Velodyne EQ max 15 (newer model of his subwoofer) and the Rythmik FV15HP. At 20hz the Velodyne is putting out 84 db, the Rythmik 108. By 40 hz the Velodyne has closed the canyon a bit 110 db v 119 for the Rythmik. They aren’t even in same universe. Twin FV12s will be close to a single fv15 in output and be capable of 10-25 db more depending on the frequency. This is the functional equivalent of drag racing a motorhome against a car.

https://data-bass.com/#/systems?_k=njd29z
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post #40 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 08:17 AM
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@Dwalker112 @z3roz

Monolith 12 is currently $660 with coupon code "MN100" at Rakuten (courtesy of DJ3xclusive at SD's).
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post #41 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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With warranty and everything?
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post #42 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 09:21 AM
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With warranty and everything?
Yes, notice "sold and shipped by monoprice", is the seller under the add to cart button. They're just selling it through Rakuten's marketplace.
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post #43 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Leon! View Post
@Dwalker112 @z3roz



Monolith 12 is currently $660 with coupon code "MN100" at Rakuten (courtesy of DJ3xclusive at SD's).


Thanks!


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post #44 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I was settled on the Mono 12's, made boxes representing their size, showed it to the wife, and got the "no, go with the two 10's", so, that's the deal. Twin mono 10's. The others are just way too big to pass the WAF, and I'd like to see her naked once and a while 😉
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Originally Posted by Leon! View Post
@Dwalker112 @z3roz

Monolith 12 is currently $660 with coupon code "MN100" at Rakuten (courtesy of DJ3xclusive at SD's).
Total noob here when it comes to Rakuten. I can't find it. Do they have a deal on the Mono 10's?

Edit: found it. Deal is only for the 12's. Damn !!
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post #46 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 10:04 AM
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Except your numbers are so wrong it hurts. We have direct comparison numbers between the Velodyne EQ max 15 (newer model of his subwoofer) and the Rythmik FV15HP. At 20hz the Velodyne is putting out 84 db, the Rythmik 108. By 40 hz the Velodyne has closed the canyon a bit 110 db v 119 for the Rythmik. They aren’t even in same universe. Twin FV12s will be close to a single fv15 in output and be capable of 10-25 db more depending on the frequency. This is the functional equivalent of drag racing a motorhome against a car.

https://data-bass.com/#/systems?_k=njd29z
Thanks for those numbers.

The basic point is that a single smaller ID sub may in fact give him all he needs without breaking the bank vs what he had before so even dual LV12Fs might suffice, (starting with one in case just one suffices).

Geoff A. J., California
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post #47 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 10:06 AM
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Well I was settled on the Mono 12's, made boxes representing their size, showed it to the wife, and got the "no, go with the two 10's", so, that's the deal. Twin mono 10's. The others are just way too big to pass the WAF, and I'd like to see her naked once and a while 😉


I feel your pain my brother . I feel like my mother would think hell has frozen over if I dragged two mono 12’s in my room .


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post #48 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by z3roz View Post
Well I was settled on the Mono 12's, made boxes representing their size, showed it to the wife, and got the "no, go with the two 10's", so, that's the deal. Twin mono 10's. The others are just way too big to pass the WAF, and I'd like to see her naked once and a while 😉


No!

You're framing the choice incorrectly. It's not a pair of 12's vs. a pair of 10's. It's a single 12 vs a pair of tens, while appealing to her sense of value as only the 12 is on sale atm. What happens down the line, christmas time, early next year, or whenever is completely unrelated and unplanned as of now, as far as anyone needs to know.
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post #49 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Leon! View Post
@Dwalker112 @z3roz

Monolith 12 is currently $660 with coupon code "MN100" at Rakuten (courtesy of DJ3xclusive at SD's).
Thanks, Thats a good price. I was going to get 2 sp1000 or monolith 10 but might pick up one monolith 12 for the price. Cant really afford 2 monolith 12 and stay in budget of 1100

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post #50 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3roz View Post
Well I was settled on the Mono 12's, made boxes representing their size, showed it to the wife, and got the "no, go with the two 10's", so, that's the deal. Twin mono 10's. The others are just way too big to pass the WAF, and I'd like to see her naked once and a while 😉
Order one as likely it will be more than what you had before.

If you want "more" many advantages to adding a second.

Looking forward to your impressions.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #51 of 83 Old 05-19-2019, 01:16 PM
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Except your numbers are so wrong it hurts. We have direct comparison numbers between the Velodyne EQ max 15 (newer model of his subwoofer) and the Rythmik FV15HP. At 20hz the Velodyne is putting out 84 db, the Rythmik 108. By 40 hz the Velodyne has closed the canyon a bit 110 db v 119 for the Rythmik. They aren’t even in same universe. Twin FV12s will be close to a single fv15 in output and be capable of 10-25 db more depending on the frequency. This is the functional equivalent of drag racing a motorhome against a car.

https://data-bass.com/#/systems?_k=njd29z
The true 20Hz output of the FV15HP with limiter on is 106.6dB, but of course it doesn't change the results of this comparison

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
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post #52 of 83 Old 05-20-2019, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Got one Mono 10 on the way. Waiting for the inevitable fathers day sale for the other. I'll post my impressions as soon as I get it.
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post #53 of 83 Old 05-20-2019, 02:40 PM
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Got one Mono 10 on the way. Waiting for the inevitable fathers day sale for the other. I'll post my impressions as soon as I get it.

Monolith 10 is a really nice sub, but it has limitations and faults that the Monolith 12 doesn't have, particularly in your large room.. It's REALLY unfortunate that you weren't able to get the Monolith 12 for the $660 sale price, because that was a stellar deal. Those pesky wives.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Pioneer FS52/BS22A/C22. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith AM Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31.JBL Live500bt. Logitech GPro HS. Plantronics RIG 500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,PK5,PH4. UE Boom3.
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NoooooooooooO!
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Refuse shipment of that tiny 10-inch subwoofer (or at least get two)!

I highly recommend dual sealed Monoprice 15s. They are spectacular in a 5500ft^3 room and are not much larger than the ported Monoprice 10s.

Monoprice ported 10-inch: 18.9" x 15" x 19.7"
Monoprice sealed 15-inch: 23.5" x 16.7" x 21.0"

Seating is 18ft away and they provide plenty of midbass and LFE with articulation and authority. They replaced dual HSU ULS-15 MK1s and the improvement is significant.
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post #56 of 83 Old 05-20-2019, 06:20 PM
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Refuse shipment of that tiny 10-inch subwoofer (or at least get two)!

I highly recommend dual sealed Monoprice 15s. They are spectacular in a 5500ft^3 room and are not much larger than the ported Monoprice 10s.

Monoprice ported 10-inch: 18.9" x 15" x 19.7"
Monoprice sealed 15-inch: 23.5" x 16.7" x 21.0"

Seating is 18ft away and they provide plenty of midbass and LFE with articulation and authority. They replaced dual HSU ULS-15 MK1s and the improvement is significant.

Sheer torture for this poor guy....lol. It ain't easy being sleezy with the wifey looking over your shoulder.

Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Pioneer FS52/BS22A/C22. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith AM Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31.JBL Live500bt. Logitech GPro HS. Plantronics RIG 500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,PK5,PH4. UE Boom3.
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post #57 of 83 Old 05-20-2019, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm gonna get two. Just waiting because they're probably gonna be 20% off any day. If not I'll get another one anyway.

Trust me I would have preferred twin 12's or 15's, but I cant win em all. Overall I'll be better off than with the single velo, or if not, I'll just send em back and start all over beating my head against a wall until a decision is made.

The next house is going to have 8 subs built into the four corners, LCRs behind a 120" screen, laser projector, etc. and It'll be MY theater room so she cant say anything about it.

Last edited by z3roz; 05-20-2019 at 08:21 PM.
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post #58 of 83 Old 05-20-2019, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A_D_A_M View Post
Refuse shipment of that tiny 10-inch subwoofer (or at least get two[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG])!

I highly recommend dual sealed Monoprice 15s. They are spectacular in a 5500ft^3 room and are not much larger than the ported Monoprice 10s.

Monoprice ported 10-inch: 18.9" x 15" x 19.7"
Monoprice sealed 15-inch: 23.5" x 16.7" x 21.0"

Seating is 18ft away and they provide plenty of midbass and LFE with articulation and authority. They replaced dual HSU ULS-15 MK1s and the improvement is significant.
Not gonna happen my friend. Dual 15" sealed are over budget and too big, even though it's only a few inches. ☹️
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post #59 of 83 Old 05-20-2019, 09:30 PM
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$660 for that Monolith 12 is a fantastic deal, but if it's too big then what can you do? I've got some experience with the dual Monolith 10's. I really like them and I think you'll be happy (once you get the 2nd). They come with a beast of an amplifier. I think it's the same one that's in the 12". Movies get fun once you get down under 20Hz and you start to feel the action instead of just hear it.
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post #60 of 83 Old 05-20-2019, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlguapo View Post
$660 for that Monolith 12 is a fantastic deal, but if it's too big then what can you do? I've got some experience with the dual Monolith 10's. I really like them and I think you'll be happy (once you get the 2nd). They come with a beast of an amplifier. I think it's the same one that's in the 12". Movies get fun once you get down under 20Hz and you start to feel the action instead of just hear it.

I agree that the Monolith 10 is a really nice sub, but the OP is dealing with a less than ideal room that is rather large. Definitely not an ideal setting for the Monolith 10, which is THX rated for rooms up to 2000 ft^3. A room 3500ft^3+ is going to noticeably diminish any lower bass capabilities the Monolith 10 is capable of and usable output @20Hz probably isn't going to be realized.
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Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Pioneer FS52/BS22A/C22. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith AM Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31.JBL Live500bt. Logitech GPro HS. Plantronics RIG 500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,PK5,PH4. UE Boom3.
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