Sub-woofer suggestions to replace Paradigm Sub 1 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 03:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Sub-woofer suggestions to replace Paradigm Sub 1

In my dedicated room I currently run two Paradigm Sub 1's, one at the front and one at the rear of the room. I love them as they deliver very tight and articulate bass, and appear to perform very well in my room.

My room is only small at around 18ft x 11ft x 8ft high, so I get significant output from these two subs - they measure flat down to around 10Hz in room, and hit reference at around 1/3rd setting on their gain dials (and still require around -15dB cut in my Trinnov SSP to hit target SPL).

Sadly however one of the Sub 1's has developed a fault and is currently not working. Whilst I am hoping I can get it fixed, I want to hedge my bets by considering what other sub options are available, as the Sub 1's are no longer made.

In terms of my requirements:

- I don't want a foot-print significantly larger than the Sub 1 (approx 20" cubed), and certainly no taller (so that rules out the dual vertical driver units).
- I'm also clearly not in need of significant additional output as such, given how I have to set the Sub 1's currently to control their output.
- However I do want extension to 10Hz (not too bothered about output below that), and most importantly of all I would want to achieve the same fast and articulate bass reproduction.
- I only really want to consider sealed subs.
- I don't really want to go beyond two subs, as I don't need the output, and the two current subs in their current positions given very even combined in-room response at the MLP. However, if absolutely necessary I have room to accommodate two additional subs (four total) at opposing room positions to the existing two.

As far as I can tell from this forum section (and I am not particularly knowledgeable on sub-woofers in all honesty), favourite brands appear to be Seaton, JTR, Rythmik and Deep Sea Sound. Looking at the models they offer, and the sizes available, narrows it down, I think, to the following:

Seaton: SubMersive HP+
JTR: Captivator S1
Rythmik: F18 or G25HP
Deep Sea Sound: Mariana 18S

I'd be grateful for people thoughts and feedback on these models, how they might compare, and which might get me closest (or even exceed) the performance of the Sub 1 it could replace in terms of that critical subjective speed and articulation.
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post #2 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 06:01 AM
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I like the Rythmik G25HP, and the Submersive HP+.

Find the review of the Rythmik G25HP by Jim Wilson, here on AVS Forum.
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post #3 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 06:11 AM
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You want down to 10 that's low that 18 goes to what 12..

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post #4 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 06:53 AM
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DSS Marina 18S and Rythmik G25HP have my vote although all choices on your list will perform well. I think the DSS will have more tactile feel and may hit harder down low, but the Rythmik also will be right there and "may" have the edge in been articulate. Jim's review on the G25HP is very complimentary on its performance.
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post #5 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post
I like the Rythmik G25HP, and the Submersive HP+.

Find the review of the Rythmik G25HP by Jim Wilson, here on AVS Forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
DSS Marina 18S and Rythmik G25HP have my vote although all choices on your list will perform well. I think the DSS will have more tactile feel and may hit harder down low, but the Rythmik also will be right there and "may" have the edge in been articulate. Jim's review on the G25HP is very complimentary on its performance.
Thanks guys, I've just read the review by @JimWilson - a good in depth review. The servo tech in the Rythmik subs does look appealing.

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Originally Posted by Matthew Wiechert View Post
You want down to 10 that's low that 18 goes to what 12..

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My room is very well sound-proofed, and so is a quite a well sealed space, so I'm kind of assuming all of them will reach 10Hz with room gain? Possibly why I have to dial my Sub 1's down so much? (As I mentioned subs aren't my speciality, so I'm working a little on assumptions here, rather than experience).
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post #6 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
In my dedicated room I currently run two Paradigm Sub 1's, one at the front and one at the rear of the room. I love them as they deliver very tight and articulate bass, and appear to perform very well in my room.

My room is only small at around 18ft x 11ft x 8ft high, so I get significant output from these two subs - they measure flat down to around 10Hz in room, and hit reference at around 1/3rd setting on their gain dials (and still require around -15dB cut in my Trinnov SSP to hit target SPL).

Sadly however one of the Sub 1's has developed a fault and is currently not working. Whilst I am hoping I can get it fixed, I want to hedge my bets by considering what other sub options are available, as the Sub 1's are no longer made.

In terms of my requirements:

- I don't want a foot-print significantly larger than the Sub 1 (approx 20" cubed), and certainly no taller (so that rules out the dual vertical driver units).
- I'm also clearly not in need of significant additional output as such, given how I have to set the Sub 1's currently to control their output.
- However I do want extension to 10Hz (not too bothered about output below that), and most importantly of all I would want to achieve the same fast and articulate bass reproduction.
- I only really want to consider sealed subs.
- I don't really want to go beyond two subs, as I don't need the output, and the two current subs in their current positions given very even combined in-room response at the MLP. However, if absolutely necessary I have room to accommodate two additional subs (four total) at opposing room positions to the existing two.

As far as I can tell from this forum section (and I am not particularly knowledgeable on sub-woofers in all honesty), favourite brands appear to be Seaton, JTR, Rythmik and Deep Sea Sound. Looking at the models they offer, and the sizes available, narrows it down, I think, to the following:

Seaton: SubMersive HP+
JTR: Captivator S1
Rythmik: F18 or G25HP
Deep Sea Sound: Mariana 18S

I'd be grateful for people thoughts and feedback on these models, how they might compare, and which might get me closest (or even exceed) the performance of the Sub 1 it could replace in terms of that critical subjective speed and articulation.
In your 1600 cu ft sealed room, a pair of G25HPs or even a pair of F18s should give you flat response down to single digits easily. I would expect flat response down to 7Hz at least. In my 2400 cu ft room, I get flat response down to 9Hz with just a pair of F12SEs. After adding a FV25HP to the mix, I get flat response down to 9Hz as well but with much more output above 40Hz.
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post #7 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
In terms of my requirements:

- I don't want a foot-print significantly larger than the Sub 1 (approx 20" cubed), and certainly no taller (so that rules out the dual vertical driver units).
- I'm also clearly not in need of significant additional output as such, given how I have to set the Sub 1's currently to control their output.
- However I do want extension to 10Hz (not too bothered about output below that), and most importantly of all I would want to achieve the same fast and articulate bass reproduction.
- I only really want to consider sealed subs.
- I don't really want to go beyond two subs, as I don't need the output, and the two current subs in their current positions given very even combined in-room response at the MLP. However, if absolutely necessary I have room to accommodate two additional subs (four total) at opposing room positions to the existing two.

As far as I can tell from this forum section (and I am not particularly knowledgeable on sub-woofers in all honesty), favourite brands appear to be Seaton, JTR, Rythmik and Deep Sea Sound. Looking at the models they offer, and the sizes available, narrows it down, I think, to the following:

Seaton: SubMersive HP+
JTR: Captivator S1
Rythmik: F18 or G25HP
Deep Sea Sound: Mariana 18S

I'd be grateful for people thoughts and feedback on these models, how they might compare, and which might get me closest (or even exceed) the performance of the Sub 1 it could replace in terms of that critical subjective speed and articulation.
I own an S1, have reviewed the G25HP and heard the Submersive HP more than once so of your list the only subs I don't have direct experience with are the 18S and F18 (I've also reviewed the FV18 so I have first hand knowledge of its sibling).

If I were forced to decide based solely upon precision and accuracy I would put the G25HP and Submersive at the top. They are more similar than dissimilar. Output might favor the Rythmik, but it probably wouldn't be by much. Putting a mic in front of each may show some measurable difference, but audibly I don't know if that would be the case. Both are that good. Behind those two is the S1. I suspect the target audience is a bit different for that subwoofer so its sound signature differs as well, at least to my ears. I can't speak for the 18S because I haven't heard one, yet. David and I have spoken in the past and have a running agreement to send me a review unit once he's comfortable DSS is setup and established the way he wants it to be.

 
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post #8 of 10 Old 05-21-2019, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
As far as I can tell from this forum section (and I am not particularly knowledgeable on sub-woofers in all honesty), favourite brands appear to be Seaton, JTR, Rythmik and Deep Sea Sound. Looking at the models they offer, and the sizes available, narrows it down, I think, to the following:

Seaton: SubMersive HP+
JTR: Captivator S1
Rythmik: F18 or G25HP
Deep Sea Sound: Mariana 18S

I'd be grateful for people thoughts and feedback on these models, how they might compare, and which might get me closest (or even exceed) the performance of the Sub 1 it could replace in terms of that critical subjective speed and articulation.

I don't know where you live, but if it's not in the US, you can probably cross Deep Sea off the list. I don't think they ship overseas. At least they didn't use to. You can't make a mistake with your choices. I'd probably opt for the G25 if I were you, but you'd be happy with any of them.
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post #9 of 10 Old 05-22-2019, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
In your 1600 cu ft sealed room, a pair of G25HPs or even a pair of F18s should give you flat response down to single digits easily. I would expect flat response down to 7Hz at least. In my 2400 cu ft room, I get flat response down to 9Hz with just a pair of F12SEs. After adding a FV25HP to the mix, I get flat response down to 9Hz as well but with much more output above 40Hz.
Thanks, that's what I figured too.

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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
I own an S1, have reviewed the G25HP and heard the Submersive HP more than once so of your list the only subs I don't have direct experience with are the 18S and F18 (I've also reviewed the FV18 so I have first hand knowledge of its sibling).

If I were forced to decide based solely upon precision and accuracy I would put the G25HP and Submersive at the top. They are more similar than dissimilar. Output might favor the Rythmik, but it probably wouldn't be by much. Putting a mic in front of each may show some measurable difference, but audibly I don't know if that would be the case. Both are that good. Behind those two is the S1. I suspect the target audience is a bit different for that subwoofer so its sound signature differs as well, at least to my ears. I can't speak for the 18S because I haven't heard one, yet. David and I have spoken in the past and have a running agreement to send me a review unit once he's comfortable DSS is setup and established the way he wants it to be.
Thanks for replying Jim, thats appreciated. The G25HP is looking the best option then I guess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post
I don't know where you live, but if it's not in the US, you can probably cross Deep Sea off the list. I don't think they ship overseas. At least they didn't use to. You can't make a mistake with your choices. I'd probably opt for the G25 if I were you, but you'd be happy with any of them.
Yep, good point, I'm in the UK, though it looks like the DSS unit is off the list anyway given the replies above in favour of the Rythmik unit. I have factored in a substantial delivery cost with any choice I make given none of these manufacturers appear to have European distribution.
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post #10 of 10 Old 05-22-2019, 12:54 PM
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Thanks, that's what I figured too.



Thanks for replying Jim, thats appreciated. The G25HP is looking the best option then I guess.




Yep, good point, I'm in the UK, though it looks like the DSS unit is off the list anyway given the replies above in favour of the Rythmik unit. I have factored in a substantial delivery cost with any choice I make given none of these manufacturers appear to have European distribution.
Since you have been satisfied with the sound and output of your Paradigms you should see what the repair cost is. You could save a few thousand $$$ by fixing your current sub. IMO none of the subs you're looking at is going to be much if any overall improvement given your room and listening habits.

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