LVX12 vs Monolith 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 05-23-2019, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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LVX12 vs Monolith 12

I'm trying to decide between the 2 mentioned above. I will be getting a pair.



What are their differences, and which one would you recommend and why?



Thanks
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post #2 of 26 Old 05-23-2019, 09:39 AM
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I can't speak for the rythmik but I just got 2 monos and they are insane for the price.. They where I sale for 659..not sure if they still are... They are pretty large just over 100 pounds each..

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post #3 of 26 Old 05-23-2019, 01:45 PM
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I don't know that the LVX12 and HSU VTF-2mk5 have ever been auditioned or reviewed head to head, but if I remember correctly they are very similar in performance. The VTF-2 is $607/shipped, so I would personally save the nearly $200 and go with the HSU. I've never personally auditioned the Rythmik LVX12, but I did have the LV12R for a little while and wasn't impressed with it's ability to handle lower LFE. I'm not 100% positive, but I think the LVX12 uses the same driver. Anyway, getting to to the other sub in question, the Monolith THX Ultra 12 is a very impressive sub. I don't think there is a better made 12" sub or one that can handle LFE so effortlessly. It's an amazing home theater sub, but also an amazing sub for music. Unfortunately, you just missed the rakuten.com deal by one day that was taking off an additional $100 from the $759.99 price. That's still $40 less than the regular price of $799.99, however. Rakuten does currently have a 15% back in points deal right now, so if you bought one at $760 you would get back $114 in points that you could then turn around an d use buying a second one. Points hit your account once the purchased item has shipped, so no waiting long periods of time to receive them to use.
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Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Pioneer FS52/BS22A/C22. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith AM Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31.JBL Live500bt. Logitech GPro HS. Plantronics RIG 500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,PK5,PH4. UE Boom3.
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post #4 of 26 Old 05-24-2019, 03:45 PM
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I don't know that the LVX12 and HSU VTF-2mk5 have ever been auditioned or reviewed head to head, but if I remember correctly they are very similar in performance. The VTF-2 is $607/shipped, so I would personally save the nearly $200 and go with the HSU. I've never personally auditioned the Rythmik LVX12, but I did have the LV12R for a little while and wasn't impressed with it's ability to handle lower LFE. I'm not 100% positive, but I think the LVX12 uses the same driver.
The LVX12 does use the same driver as the LV12R but uses a larger 2 port enclosure with a tuning point of 14HZ. When your referring to not handling lower LFE are you talking about 19HZ or below? I ask because the LV12R can be flat down to 18HZ in smaller rooms but it isn't really a below 20HZ rated pressure producing device in medium to large spaces. The only issue I have with those Monoliths is they are unnecessarily heavy due to the HDF but they tested very well in review on Audioholics.
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post #5 of 26 Old 05-24-2019, 07:41 PM
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The LVX12 does use the same driver as the LV12R but uses a larger 2 port enclosure with a tuning point of 14HZ. When your referring to not handling lower LFE are you talking about 19HZ or below? I ask because the LV12R can be flat down to 18HZ in smaller rooms but it isn't really a below 20HZ rated pressure producing device in medium to large spaces. The only issue I have with those Monoliths is they are unnecessarily heavy due to the HDF but they tested very well in review on Audioholics.

I'm referring to lower LFE in movies like WWZ and Underworld Awakening. You may not remember, but back when I had the LV12R I posted about the issues I ran into with the port noise and driver noise back maybe a couple of years ago. I ran the exact same movie scenes with the RBH I-12 and it had no problems, even in lowest extension mode. Of course the I-12 was unique for a 12" sub in that it had three 3" ports and lowest extension mode you use 2 ports open, so a substantial amount more port area than other dual ported 12" subs running 1 port plugged or single ported subs.



I don't think it's fair to say, without any knowledge of how the Monolith subs were designed, that these subs are "unnecessarily heavy." I'm sure the cabinets are made of HDF for a reason, not just to add extra weight to increase production and shipping costs. Claridy designed these subs and they for sure know what they are doing. Here is what is stated on the Monoprice website regarding the use of HDF.



Monoprice- "HDF (High Density Fiberboard), not MDF, was utilized resulting in a sonically inert cabinet. Internal bracing has been strategically placed to increase overall cabinet strength and limit unwanted panel vibrations that would cause discoloration and distortion. The strong cabinet and bracing combine to ensure you hear massive amounts of bass, not cabinet resonances."
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Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Pioneer FS52/BS22A/C22. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith AM Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31.JBL Live500bt. Logitech GPro HS. Plantronics RIG 500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,PK5,PH4. UE Boom3.
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post #6 of 26 Old 05-24-2019, 10:08 PM
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I'm referring to lower LFE in movies like WWZ and Underworld Awakening. You may not remember, but back when I had the LV12R I posted about the issues I ran into with the port noise and driver noise back maybe a couple of years ago. I ran the exact same movie scenes with the RBH I-12 and it had no problems, even in lowest extension mode. Of course the I-12 was unique for a 12" sub in that it had three 3" ports and lowest extension mode you use 2 ports open, so a substantial amount more port area than other dual ported 12" subs running 1 port plugged or single ported subs.
Yeah, I remember. The RBH I-12 also had DSP limiting that servos can't use and 2 more ports so that's kind of an unfair contest design wise. Plus it's the LVX12 the OP is looking at getting not the smaller/less powered LV12R. Don't think there's any pro reviews out on it but Jim Wilson removed and examined the LV12R's driver before beating the snot out of that sub several years back in his testing and found nothing wrong with its performance capabilities. I do believe your experience though but something wasn't right either with that particular sub or the testing methodology( i.e. were they both properly gain matched beforehand ) because that driver is used in no less than 4 Rhythmik models (LV12R/F, LVX12, L12 ,L22) and has been well tested. I wouldn't personally want one in a 3000-5000 cubic foot space though which is why the LVX12 exists.


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I don't think it's fair to say, without any knowledge of how the Monolith subs were designed, that these subs are "unnecessarily heavy." I'm sure the cabinets are made of HDF for a reason, not just to add extra weight to increase production and shipping costs. Claridy designed these subs and they for sure know what they are doing. Here is what is stated on the Monoprice website regarding the use of HDF.
It's fair IMO because that's not a knock on the Monoprice's performance capabilities just on one of its material choices which make it harder to maneuver around a room or up a flight of stairs. None of the 4 major sub manufacturers use HDF as far as I'm aware(SVS,HSU,Rythmik,PSA) and Rythmik specifically has tested the performance benefits between the 2 and found MDF to be the better material. Plus it's lighter.





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Monoprice- "HDF (High Density Fiberboard), not MDF, was utilized resulting in a sonically inert cabinet. Internal bracing has been strategically placed to increase overall cabinet strength and limit unwanted panel vibrations that would cause discoloration and distortion. The strong cabinet and bracing combine to ensure you hear massive amounts of bass, not cabinet resonances."
You can accomplish all of these things with better window bracing using MDF. I say that because others already have. I personally think the HDF was a conscious marketing decision to increase the heft of the product not the actual performance of the sub itself. Mono can afford to eat the added shipping costs and more weight has a placebo effect on how consumers rate initial quality of electronics on unboxing. The performance aspects of the Monolith speak for themselves though but they don't have anything to do with HDF. Anyways I agree with your recommend of the Monolith sub. It looks to be the real deal.
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post #7 of 26 Old 05-24-2019, 11:16 PM
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Yeah, I remember. The RBH I-12 also had DSP limiting that servos can't use and 2 more ports so that's kind of an unfair contest design wise. Plus it's the LVX12 the OP is looking at getting not the smaller/less powered LV12R. Don't think there's any pro reviews out on it but Jim Wilson removed and examined the LV12R's driver before beating the snot out of that sub several years back in his testing and found nothing wrong with its performance capabilities. I do believe your experience though but something wasn't right either with that particular sub or the testing methodology( i.e. were they both properly gain matched beforehand ) because that driver is used in no less than 4 Rhythmik models (LV12R/F, LVX12, L12 ,L22) and has been well tested. I wouldn't personally want one in a 3000-5000 cubic foot space though which is why the LVX12 exists.




It's fair IMO because that's not a knock on the Monoprice's performance capabilities just on one of its material choices which make it harder to maneuver around a room or up a flight of stairs. None of the 4 major sub manufacturers use HDF as far as I'm aware(SVS,HSU,Rythmik,PSA) and Rythmik specifically has tested the performance benefits between the 2 and found MDF to be the better material. Plus it's lighter.







You can accomplish all of these things with better window bracing using MDF. I say that because others already have. I personally think the HDF was a conscious marketing decision to increase the heft of the product not the actual performance of the sub itself. Mono can afford to eat the added shipping costs and more weight has a placebo effect on how consumers rate initial quality of electronics on unboxing. The performance aspects of the Monolith speak for themselves though but they don't have anything to do with HDF. Anyways I agree with your recommend of the Monolith sub. It looks to be the real deal.



lol..You are reading way more into the design of the Monolith subs than I could ever imagine. I know HSU purposely designed the VTF-15H mk2 cabinet dimensions smaller than the previous model specifically to keep shipping costs down. Heck, Rythmik gives you $100 off if you will pick up your bigger purchased subs from the freight terminal. To suggest Monoprice intentionally increased production and shipping costs (the larger subs have to be shipped UPS freight) as a marketing gimmick to try and pull some sort of Jedi mind trick on unsuspecting customers is a pretty rich. Some of the weight is the extremely beefy driver Claridy put together. And for you to say the performance of the Monolith subs has nothing to do with them using HDF is unfounded speculation. You been partaking of some adult beverages tonight, Max?
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Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Pioneer FS52/BS22A/C22. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith AM Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31.JBL Live500bt. Logitech GPro HS. Plantronics RIG 500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,PK5,PH4. UE Boom3.

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post #8 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 12:50 AM
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lol..You are reading way more into the design of the Monolith subs than I could ever imagine.
I'm actually not reading into anything. I spent 22 years in retail sales and I'm well aware of the research that goes into consumer purchasing behaviors by manufacturers above and beyond the actual engineering principles. The buying public has been analyzed to death over decades and emotional responses to products are about as easy to predict as gambling habits are in casinos(whose the loser there more often than not?) These get intentionally designed into products all the time. See Apple and their rabid testing of unboxing times and tactile feel before initial release for the first iPhones and iPods. Doesn't mean the products aren't also well designed just that not every single choice is an actual performance multiplier. This isn't news to anyone who's cut their teeth in a retail environment by the way.

Quote:
I know HSU purposely redesigned the VTF-15H mk2 cabinet dimensions specifically to keep shipping costs down. Heck, Rythmik gives you $100 off if you will pick up your purchased subs from the freight terminal. To suggest Monoprice intentionally increased production and shipping costs (the larger subs have to be shipped UPS freight) as a marketing gimmick to try and pull some sort of Jedi mind trick on unsuspecting customers is a pretty rich. And for you to say the performance of the Monolith subs has nothing to do with them using HDF is quite ridiculous.
That's because HSU charges separately for its shipping . Rythmik also offers this shipping free local pickup for all of its products not just the ones subject to freight charges. PSA does as well. Plus the fact that neither of these 2 ID companies are anywhere near the size and scope of Monoprice regarding purchasing power makes it an apple's to oranges comparison as to whose most affected by shipping costs. It ain't Monoprice trust me.

So basically you're telling me with this HSU/Rythmik example that 2 Phd'd electrical engineers(Dr Hsu and Dr. Ding) one also with a minor in acoustical engineering I believe have made design compromises in their enclosure type because of concerns over shipping costs? You must not have met many engineers. Also UPS freight charges don't kick in until 150 pounds and only the largest 15 inch Monolith sub's gross shipping weight is 162 pounds so no added freight costs on 2 out of 3 of them even with HDF.

These also are not marketing gimmicks. These are well studied and tested consumer purchasing biases along with tactile feel, fit and finish, color, packaging etc.. None of those are directly linked to actual product performance in any way but are just as important to any company delivering a well engineered product. There's an old saying in retail related to either the face to face meet and greet or product unboxing. "You don't get a second chance to make a first impression."
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You been partaking of some adult beverages tonight, Max?
That would be a negatory buddy. I reached my lifetime alcohol limit about ten years ago, lol. You've still not given me one science based acoustical basis or link to an independent study/paper as to why HDF is such a superior design material specifically for use in subwoofers. If true this would mean for example PSA ,one of the most highly respected subwoofer manufacture on AVS, with in house designed drivers and amp's (all proudly made in the USA) sacrificed performance benefits by not using HDF? I highly doubt that. THX certification and the heavier HDF were IMO the marketing differentiators made by Monoprice. They could have reached the same performance goals without either but it's not sexy marketing to explain Thiele/Small parameters, enclosure size/dampening and port design. Good talk but I'm headed off to bed.
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post #9 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 01:39 AM
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I'm actually not reading into anything. I spent 22 years in retail sales and I'm well aware of the research that goes into consumer purchasing behaviors by manufacturers above and beyond the actual engineering principles. The buying public has been analyzed to death over decades and emotional responses to products are about as easy to predict as gambling habits are in casinos(whose the loser there more often than not?) These get intentionally designed into products all the time. See Apple and their rabid testing of unboxing times and tactile feel before initial release for the first iPhones and iPods. Doesn't mean the products aren't also well designed just that not every single choice is an actual performance multiplier. This isn't news to anyone who's cut their teeth in a retail environment by the way.


That's because HSU charges separately for its shipping . Rythmik also offers this shipping free local pickup for all of its products not just the ones subject to freight charges. PSA does as well. Plus the fact that neither of these 2 ID companies are anywhere near the size and scope of Monoprice regarding purchasing power makes it an apple's to oranges comparison as to whose most affected by shipping costs. It ain't Monoprice trust me.

So basically you're telling me with this HSU/Rythmik example that 2 Phd'd electrical engineers(Dr Hsu and Dr. Ding) one also with a minor in acoustical engineering I believe have made design compromises in their enclosure type because of concerns over shipping costs? You must not have met many engineers. Also UPS freight charges don't kick in until 150 pounds and only the largest 15 inch Monolith sub's gross shipping weight is 162 pounds so no added freight costs on 2 out of 3 of them even with HDF.

These also are not marketing gimmicks. These are well studied and tested consumer purchasing biases along with tactile feel, fit and finish, color, packaging etc.. None of those are directly linked to actual product performance in any way but are just as important to any company delivering a well engineered product. There's an old saying in retail related to either the face to face meet and greet or product unboxing. "You don't get a second chance to make a first impression."


That would be a negatory buddy. I reached my lifetime alcohol limit about ten years ago, lol. You've still not given me one science based acoustical basis or link to an independent study/paper as to why HDF is such a superior design material specifically for use in subwoofers. If true this would mean for example PSA ,one of the most highly respected subwoofer manufacture on AVS, with in house designed drivers and amp's (all proudly made in the USA) sacrificed performance benefits by not using HDF? I highly doubt that. THX certification and the heavier HDF were IMO the marketing differentiators made by Monoprice. They could have reached the same performance goals without either but it's not sexy marketing to explain Thiele/Small parameters, enclosure size/dampening and port design. Good talk but I'm headed off to bed.

I think the fact that Claridy designed this specific line of THX subs with cabinets made of HDF is a pretty strong indicator that it made a difference and at a pretty substantial cost to Monoprice. How much of a difference? Neither of us know. What other companies make their cabinets out of is their option and a moot point when talking about this line of subs from Monoprice. I also doubt many would even consider HDF due to the substantial amount of money it would cost for production and shipping over MDF.



I'm not in the position in this discussion to have to prove my case, as the explanation is written in plain English on the Monoprice website. If you think that's a load of crap, that's your opinion, but you have no clue or idea what went into the R&D to make these Monolith THX subs, nor do you know how they would perform with a cabinet made from MDF. Maybe you should contact Claridy and let them know you are on to their "placebo effect" to lure in customers. It's funny that you state the use of HDF for the cabinet was basically a marketing gimmick, considering you yourself mark the added weight as a negative. Even the audioholics review marked the subs weight as a negative. If anything, the size and weight really is a negative, not a selling point. Good talk.


BTW, both of my Monolith 12's came UPS Freight, so you again are commenting on something you don't know about.
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Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Pioneer FS52/BS22A/C22. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith AM Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31.JBL Live500bt. Logitech GPro HS. Plantronics RIG 500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,PK5,PH4. UE Boom3.

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post #10 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 02:15 AM
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Sorry OP for the slight derail in the thread.
As far as the subs in question, I don't think there is a bad choice between the two. The Monolith 12 has been professionally reviewed and measured at audioholics.com. You can see the review here.> https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...lith-10201d-12
The Monolith 12 is an extremely capable sub and virtually bullet-proof to audible distortion and port noise, within reason, of course.


The Rythmik LVX12 hasn't been professionally reviewed that I know of. There hasn't been a lot of chatter on this sub here on the forum for a while. Based on what Rythmik lists on their site, the LXV12 is +1.5dB @20hz compared to their lowest priced ported sub, the LV12F. Not sure if that translates equally at higher frequencies or not. Rythmik will offer excellent customer service for whatever you need, which is going to be an advantage they have over buying from Monoprice. Brian Ding from Rythmik is even available here on AVS. I know when I had the issues with the LV12R the people at Rythmik were very available and helpful to try and figure things out.


I would still consider the HSU VTF-2mk5 in the discussion. It will be very comparable to these subs and if $$$ is a factor, duals are $1165. Compare that to $1498 for the Rythmik LVX12 duals and $1500 for Monolith 12 duals.
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Subs>RBH I-12e/I-12. HSU VTF-15H mk2. Monolith THX 12(x2)/THX 10(x2). XTZ 1X12. SVS PB-1000(x2). Speakers>JBL 270/235c/230/225c, Arena 130/125c. Jamo S807/S803. Infinity P363/163. Pioneer FS52/BS22A/C22. Sony CS3/CS8/CS5. QA 3020i/3090Ci, 2020i/2000c. Monolith AM Cinema 5 bs. Polk RTiA1/CsiA4. Other Audio>Sony MDR-Z7m2, WH-XB700, XB32, XB31.JBL Live500bt. Logitech GPro HS. Plantronics RIG 500 Pro HS. LG FH6,RK8,PK5,PH4. UE Boom3.

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post #11 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 02:22 AM
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I think the fact that Claridy designed this specific line of THX subs with cabinets made of HDF is a pretty strong indicator that it made a difference and at a pretty substantial cost to Monoprice. How much of a difference? Neither of us know. What other companies make their cabinets out of is their option and a moot point when talking about this line of subs from Monoprice. I also doubt many would even consider HDF due to the substantial amount of money it would cost for production and shipping over MDF.
This is literally the first time I've ever heard that manufacture's name mentioned in this forum and I've lurked here for years before actually joining so color me unimpressed with that particular name drop . Doesn't mean they aren't a quality business but the other companies I mentioned are the standard for subwoofer performance not Claridy so actually the opposite of moot. HDF is also not actually that much more dense than MDF just heavier and harder to cut. They don't choose it because it serves no practical benefit to choose it and you make a subwoofer more inert with thicker MDF, better bracing and sound dampening materials. The latter is more important to the sound quality than the difference between a 600-700 kg/m piece of MDF compared to 800 kg/m piece of HDF.



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I'm not in the position in this discussion to have to prove my case, as the explanation is written in plain English on the Monoprice website. If you think that's a load of crap, that's your opinion, but you have no clue or idea what went into the R&D to make these Monolith THX subs, nor do you know how they would perform with a cabinet made from MDF.
Respectfully you're the one telling me my take is ridiculous and insinuating I'm possibly inebriated so I just thought you had something other than a bunch of lol's and eeks to support your take. Guess not. I already explained to you in English as well that this has been studied by at least one of the major ID brands and was found to be less effective than using MDF and better bracing.


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Maybe you should contact Claridy and let them know you are on to their "placebo effect" to lure in customers. It's funny that you state the use of HDF for the cabinet was basically a marketing gimmick, considering you yourself mark the added weight as a negative. Even the audioholics review marked the subs weight as a negative. If anything, the size and weight really is a negative, not a selling point. Good talk.
I don't have any interest in contacting Claridy and getting the HDF kool aid treatment. The use of HDF is for the consumer to oooh and ahhh over like they have you doing not a pro reviewer. People are sheeple is what we used to call the brochure swallowing crowd. Good talk indeed. Baaa
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post #12 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 03:05 AM
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THX certification and the heavier HDF were IMO the marketing differentiators made by Monoprice. They could have reached the same performance goals without either but it's not sexy marketing to explain Thiele/Small parameters, enclosure size/dampening and port design.
Just an assumption, but I can't imagine that Monoprice dictated the use of HDF because they believed the average Monoprice customer was going to be more wowed by denser fiberboard. Even if the choice was made arbitrarily or purely for marketing, surely it would be Claridy making the decision? Again, just an assumption, but I doubt that Monoprice was giving much input beyond "put our logo on it."

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These also are not marketing gimmicks. These are well studied and tested consumer purchasing biases along with tactile feel, fit and finish, color, packaging etc.. None of those are directly linked to actual product performance in any way but are just as important to any company delivering a well engineered product. There's an old saying in retail related to either the face to face meet and greet or product unboxing. "You don't get a second chance to make a first impression."
If making a good first impression was really a top priority in Monoprice/Claridy's design choices, then why are Monolith subwoofers so ungodly ugly? I don't think that seemed to be a big concern with these subs. If that was really the focus, then they dropped the ball -- because the subs look terrible (IMO), and for me, the weight (particularly of the ported 15") is a turnoff as well. Personally, I find Claridy's Outlaw designs much more superficially appealing, while the Monolith subs seem to prioritize function over form to almost an extreme.

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This is literally the first time I've ever heard that manufacture's name mentioned in this forum and I've lurked here for years before actually joining so color me unimpressed with that particular name drop . Doesn't mean they aren't a quality business but the other companies I mentioned are the standard for subwoofer performance not Claridy so actually the opposite of moot.
Regardless of your awareness of the name, Claridy's Monolith, Outlaw and (perhaps to a lesser degree) XTZ subwoofers all have excellent reputations.
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post #13 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 03:11 AM
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OP you should also state your room size in cubic feet and If it's sealed or open to other spaces. If open to other spaces how large in cubic feet is that other space as bass frequencies see the whole space(1/2 space acoustically). Also what type of content do you listen to(music/ movies), % of the 2 and what are your normal listening levels Relative scale(+18-80dB). The Monolith has fewer plate amp options for tweaking like selectable LPF slopes and extension/damping settings on the Rythmk and DSP over direct servo tech but has very good build quality and a 5 year amp and driver warranty. Both makes times 2 would be more than enough in a medium sized (1500-3000 cubic feet) and possibly large (3000-5000 cubic feet depending on listening levels) space.
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This is literally the first time I've ever heard that manufacture's name mentioned in this forum and I've lurked here for years before actually joining so color me unimpressed with that particular name drop . Doesn't mean they aren't a quality business but the other companies I mentioned are the standard for subwoofer performance not Claridy so actually the opposite of moot. HDF is also not actually that much more dense than MDF just heavier and harder to cut. They don't choose it because it serves no practical benefit to choose it and you make a subwoofer more inert with thicker MDF, better bracing and sound dampening materials. The latter is more important to the sound quality than the difference between a 600-700 kg/m piece of MDF compared to 800 kg/m piece of HDF.


Respectfully you're the one telling me my take is ridiculous and insinuating I'm possibly inebriated so I just thought you had something other than a bunch of lol's and eeks to support your take. Guess not. I already explained to you in English as well that this has been studied by at least one of the major ID brands and was found to be less effective than using MDF and better bracing.


I don't have any interest in contacting Claridy and getting the HDF kool aid treatment. The use of HDF is for the consumer to oooh and ahhh over like they have you doing not a pro reviewer. People are sheeple is what we used to call the brochure swallowing crowd. Good talk indeed. Baaa

Hey, I thought you went to bed? Dude, I think you've lost it. Now you are trying to tell me I am going "oooh and ahhh" over the Monolith subs using HDF? Are you for real? I never even mentioned anything about what the sub was made of until you made the comment that HDF was unnecessarily used. All I stated was they obviously used HDF for a reason, but apparently you know better than Claridy. And the fact that you've never heard of Claridy makes me wonder if your thought process is clear tonight. I don't think I've ever seem you act like this. Claridy has been mentioned quite a number of times on this forum.



BTW, for the many times I've recommended or discussed the Monolith subs on this forum, not one time have I ever stated somebody should buy them because they are made of HDF. I think you have some sort of HDF derangement syndrome.
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post #15 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 04:19 AM
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Just an assumption, but I can't imagine that Monoprice dictated the use of HDF because they believed the average Monoprice customer was going to be more wowed by denser fiberboard. Even if the choice was made arbitrarily or purely for marketing, surely it would be Claridy making the decision? Again, just an assumption, but I doubt that Monoprice was giving much input beyond "put our logo on it."
The ID subwoofer market is extremely crowded with many well established makes all at similar price points and with personalized one on interaction directly with the designers/ owners of certain ones. Part of any design strategy is making your product stand out in a crowded market and consumers(especially male consumer) are wowed by weight in electronics. This isn't some big secret for those of us in retail but I digress . So you're saying Claridy couldn't have met these same design goals without a THX logo or slightly denser board?

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If making a good first impression was really a top priority in Monoprice/Claridy's design choices, then why are Monolith subwoofers so ungodly ugly? I don't think that seemed to be a big concern with these subs. If that was really the focus, then they dropped the ball -- because the subs look terrible (IMO), and for me, the weight (particularly of the ported 15") is a turnoff as well. Personally, I find Claridy's Outlaw designs much more superficially appealing, while the Monolith subs seem to prioritize function over form to almost an extreme.
Look. I was in the auto industry for decades. I understand what the majority of male buyers hone in on and good looks ain't it. They want to know that their truck can pull a tree stump out of the ground from a dead stop and haul a fifth wheel. If I had a dollar for every time I had to try to talk some guy out of buying a dually diesel crew cab pickup to pull his fishing boat I'd be a millionaire. They talked rear axle ratios and horsepower to torque weight ratings better than most industry engineers I trained under did.

Monoprice's marketing philosophy is and always has been costs less, performs as well if not better than but isn't as pretty as. That's literally been their whole business model. Subwoofers period have very low WAF so the marketing strategy can go one of two ways. Offer the wood veneer and piano black finishes at a higher cost to appeal to those of us with a significant other or make it plain jane but engineer the hell out of it and come in at or under other performance leaders price points. Got an AT screen in a dedicated room or no other decision maker of the opposite gender for placement in a non dedicated space and the rest who care more about a sub's looks won't touch their bottom line much because they captured the market that they were aiming for.

When one car manufacturer went from a welded frame to a more modular hydro formed frame they all went to it. When one went from a non clear coated paint to a clear coated ELPO primered paint job they all went to it. When one went from front air bags to side curtain air bags with rollover protection they all went to it. Same for dual fuel, six speed automatic transmissions, electronic power steering, backup sensors etc... The fact that the industry standard isn't HDF tells me everything I need to know. Heck it isn't even more than Monolith's standard other than the birch bark that DSS and FA uses for its custom market.

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Regardless of your awareness of the name, Claridy's Monolith, Outlaw and (perhaps to a lesser degree) XTZ subwoofers all have excellent reputations.
It's not just my awareness and I own Outlaw products. I'm also not so arrogant to say if I personally haven't heard a name that name doesn't matter. That's not my point. What I'm saying is that Claridy hasn't found something that the founder's of SVS/PSA .Rythmik and HSU haven't looked at already and deemed unnecessary to the performance of their product. Products like the FV18 Rythmik that has been recently tested on Data-Bass and Josh never mentioned that it could have used a bit of HDF to make it one of the best ported subwoofers he's tested. The Monolith sub is a great sub for the money but it's a great sub because of many more things than the enclosure density. I get it that it's the sub of the month club here on AVS for certain people but the S stands for science and there's no science that I've seen that shows HDF performance superiority over MDF. I also recommended the Monolith to the OP. Just thought I'd throw that out there. This discussion is over.
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post #16 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 04:53 AM
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So you're saying Claridy couldn't have met these same design goals without a THX logo or slightly denser board?
No, I didn't say anything like that. You're the one who seems to have strong feelings about the choice to use HDF; I don't really have an opinion about it. I simply said that it was likely a decision made by Claridy rather than Monoprice. I'm pretty sure Claridy has used HDF in some of the subs they've made for other companies -- for example, I think they make the Arendal subs that use HDF. I don't know if they use HDF in the X13, but it is slightly larger and heavier than the Monolith 12. I don't know what their reasoning is, but I definitely don't view them as inferior to the other manufacturers mentioned, so "other companies don't do it" doesn't convince me that it's a bad thing to do.
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post #17 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 04:58 AM
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I know I rather have my sub weigh 100 pounds vs 70 pounds without question.. I also know I rather have a 5 year warranty then 5 and 3 on electronics..

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post #18 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 05:24 AM
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No, I didn't say anything like that. You're the one who seems to have strong feelings about the choice to use HDF; I don't really have an opinion about it. I simply said that it was likely a decision made by Claridy rather than Monoprice. I'm pretty sure Claridy has used HDF in some of the subs they've made for other companies -- for example, I think they make the Arendal subs that use HDF. I don't know if they use HDF in the X13, but it is slightly larger and heavier than the Monolith 12. I don't know what their reasoning is, but I definitely don't view them as inferior to the other manufacturers mentioned, so "other companies don't do it" doesn't convince me that it's a bad thing to do.
I initially just commented on the weight of the sub to another poster and that I thought it was unnecessarily heavy. I still think so. I wasn't feeling as strongly until the last poster insinuated I must be drunk because I disagreed with him so forgive me if I'm a bit tired of the back and forth of all of this by the time you came along.

Claridy or Monoprice making a decision doesn't really matter much to me and it doesn't make whoever made the decision inferior. That's a straw man argument I never once made. Something not being a bad thing to do has nothing to do with how much that thing actually affects its performance. My bet is somewhat using highly sensitive measuring equipment and none at all audibly.

We'll just have to agree to disagree that others actually testing it and not using it doesn't matter because it does. Bottom line is get some carpet movers and a buddy to help unbox them. I recommended the sub over the make I currently own. I just don't have to buy into all of the marketing hype to feel better about what I recommended. I've read the detailed testing and reviews and that's what I'm basing it on. The HDF/MDF thing isn't a performance choice. It's a marketing one.
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post #19 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 05:30 AM
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I know I rather have my sub weigh 100 pounds vs 70 pounds without question.. I also know I rather have a 5 year warranty then 5 and 3 on electronics..

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The former statement proves my last point and the latter I actually totally agree with. That's a verifiable consumer benefit. I'm all about those as I'm a consumer.

If you're subwoofer's enclosure were made out of lead and your driver and plate amp out of Styrofoam but still weighed 100 pounds I suspect your take would be a bit different.

Again, I recommended the Monolith to the OP as well.
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The heavier it is the less vibration from the box you will have for sure.. My figures on my subs don't move.. My buddie has a pb2000 and you can't put anything on it cause the box itself just moves a bit..

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post #21 of 26 Old 05-25-2019, 05:48 AM
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The heavier it is the less vibration from the box you will have for sure.. My figures on my subs don't move.. My buddie has a pb2000 and you can't put anything on it cause the box itself just moves a bit..
My dual Rythmik's weigh less than the PB200 at 61 pounds a piece and the stuff I have on top of them doesn't move. Jim Wilson tested the same model I have back in 2013 for Home Theater Shack and beat the snot out of it for days and his didn't move either. Sounds like your buddy needs his home's foundation level checked.

You can make a subwoofer plenty heavy with a large driver with a strong spyder and big heavy magnet along with a powerful plate amp with large caps and a toroidal transformer, multiple window bracings and thicker MDF. How do I know this ? Their respective owners are all over AVS as we speak.
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post #22 of 26 Old 05-26-2019, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all very much for your input.... very interesting read.


I can't buy (banned) any Hsu sub now, but I managed to order a pair of Monolith 12 just before the Rakuten sale ended.



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post #23 of 26 Old 05-26-2019, 06:52 PM
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Thank you all very much for your input.... very interesting read.


I can't buy (banned) any Hsu sub now, but I managed to order a pair of Monolith 12 just before the Rakuten sale ended.



Are you saying you were banned from purchasing from HSU? Did you not get in on the $100 off deal on the Monolith 12? Looks like from what you have shown above that you paid $1519.98 for two. That's actually $20 more than buying direct from Monoprice at retail.
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Yes Sir, I had $200 off... I just updated the screen shot...I posted the wrong one earlier..
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post #25 of 26 Old 05-26-2019, 07:11 PM
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Yes Sir, I had $200 off... I just updated the screen shot...I posted the wrong one earlier..

Ahh, good deal. That's a sweet price on dual Monolith 12's, plus you have 13 bucks and change in points you can use.
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post #26 of 26 Old 05-28-2019, 12:39 AM
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I've built many a speaker boxes in my day but never personally used HDF. A quick googling revealed a common sentiment that HDF does indeed work very well for speaker cabinets. There was one forum where a self proclaimed speaker engineer confirmed its inert acoustic properties which some manufacturers love or hate. Some manufacturers actually seek a little bit of resonance to provide a certain sound signature per the forum posts that I've read.

Unfortunately, I've not come across a scientific publication or thesis regarding the properties of HDF vs MDF for speaker cabinets.
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