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post #1 of 11 Old 05-26-2019, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Trying to dial two PB3000s in

Hi All

I have had my SVS PB3000s for around 3 months now and just cant seem to get them "dialled in" the way id like them.

I have done a sub crawl, and the only location i get the best, most impactful bass is both subs are rear of room, this is not very practical due to new lounge coming and there would be no room really without having lounge sticking out, i mean, if i end up with no choice they will end up there, but trying to avoid the rewire for power and RCA.

Ive tried
  • Opposing corners
  • Both at front corners
  • Both at front, inside the speakers (current location)
  • Both at rear

By far, both at rear gets close to what i am after, but not fully from the MLP, more so if you stand next to the subs (between sub and lounge its insanely impactul and impressive)

Im trying to go down the path of
- Settle on location
- tune them in
- Room treatment (bass traps and acoustic panels)

Here are some pictures of the room
https://imgur.com/a/EmmmZms

Tonight i have decided to start again, so i reset the subs back to defaults, and ran YPAO, i then copied it to manual and set all PEQ settings for the subs to flat settings (no gain, or reduction in db across each band)

Here is the latest graph, looks shocking to me and i spent time trying over and over to get it right!
https://imgur.com/3mkWbFk

This was achieved with some minor EQ tweaks, setting the distance to about 1m further than actual distance and setting the phase on each woofer to 90deg

Would love your assistance as i just cant get them right in comparison to my old pb12s these are proving to be a real pain to get setup

Equipment list
AVR: Yamaha RX-A2050
FRONT: Aaron ATS-5
CENTRE: Aaron CC-240
ATMOS: 4x Yamaha NS-IC800
REAR: 2x Polk V-85 In Walls
SUBWOOFER: 2x SVS PB-3000

I find it all really boomy/vibration type bass, and minimal in your chest impact that i am really seeking, i want a kick in the chest feel when a car door shuts on a movie for example - i just dont get that!

Id be willing pay someone on here if they were able to possibly remote my laptop and try fine tune it all with me (REW + UMIK-1)

Thanks in advance

Last edited by buzurk; 05-26-2019 at 04:38 AM.
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post #2 of 11 Old 05-26-2019, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzurk View Post
Hi All

I have had my SVS PB3000s for around 3 months now and just cant seem to get them "dialled in" the way id like them.

I have done a sub crawl, and the only location i get the best, most impactful bass is both subs are rear of room, this is not very practical due to new lounge coming and there would be no room really without having lounge sticking out, i mean, if i end up with no choice they will end up there, but trying to avoid the rewire for power and RCA.

Ive tried
  • Opposing corners
  • Both at front corners
  • Both at front, inside the speakers (current location)
  • Both at rear

By far, both at rear gets close to what i am after, but not fully from the MLP, more so if you stand next to the subs (between sub and lounge its insanely impactul and impressive)

Im trying to go down the path of
- Settle on location
- tune them in
- Room treatment (bass traps and acoustic panels)

Here are some pictures of the room
https://imgur.com/a/EmmmZms

Tonight i have decided to start again, so i reset the subs back to defaults, and ran YPAO, i then copied it to manual and set all PEQ settings for the subs to flat settings (no gain, or reduction in db across each band)

Here is the latest graph, looks shocking to me and i spent time trying over and over to get it right!
https://imgur.com/3mkWbFk

This was achieved with some minor EQ tweaks, setting the distance to about 1m further than actual distance and setting the phase on each woofer to 90deg

Would love your assistance as i just cant get them right in comparison to my old pb12s these are proving to be a real pain to get setup

I find it all really boomy/vibration type bass, and minimal in your chest impact that i am really seeking, i want a kick in the chest feel when a car door shuts on a movie for example - i just dont get that!

Id be willing pay someone on here if they were able to possibly remote my laptop and try fine tune it all with me (REW + UMIK-1)

Thanks in advance


Hi,

I would start by contacting @Ed Mullen of SVS and letting him give you some in-depth technical assistance. That is part of the service that SVS provides to its customers, and he will be able to help you at no charge. If you want someone else on AVS to be able to help you, it might be helpful to list your location. It is very possible that there is someone in or near your community who can come assist you in person.

I have some observations of my own. First, I am not sure what you mean when you say you have a new lounge coming. Does that mean that you will be extending the HT to the rear, by expanding the room?

Second, you appear to have a very good frequency response with both subwoofers in the rear corners. In your photos, you referred to those locations as: "ear-to-ear, smiling, impactful bass". If that's where they sound and measure the best, then you may be fighting an uphill battle to make them work equally well somewhere else.

Third, in looking at your recent graph, it appears that you have been able to get a very strong house curve from about 16Hz to 40Hz. A lot of people would like that low-bass emphasis. But, from your description, what you are really looking for is more mid-bass; more chest punch. You can try using the PEQ in your subwoofers to increase the mid-bass, relative to the low-bass. The Music setting adds about a 3db boost at 63Hz. That is right in the maximum chest punch area for many people. Ed can advise you on additional settings you can try.

For instance, you might also try adding a high-pass filter at a particular low-frequency, with a mild slope to roll-off the lower frequencies a little. That would allow you to increase the volume of all of the mid-bass frequencies, relative to the low-bass frequencies, just by increasing the volume of the subs.

The PB3000's are quite powerful in the mid-bass, compared to the PB12's you had. But, they also have a lot more low-bass capability than you are used to. From what I can see from your post, and from your graphed FR, it's just a matter of placing the SPL emphasis where you want it. That's the sort of thing that Ed might be able to talk you through. I would probably start there, if I were you.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I started to say this earlier, but I decided to come back and add it after all. Not everyone likes a lot of deep bass. Even if the frequency response is fairly even in the low-bass range, as it is in the last graph you showed, some people might characterize the elevated low-bass as boomy-sounding. One other thing you could try is to operate your PB3000's in sealed mode, with both ports plugged, and with the corresponding setting in your DSP.

I had something similar in mind when I suggested a high-pass filter, perhaps at about 35Hz, with a 12db per octave slope. That would roll-off the low-frequencies a little more, relative to the mid-bass frequencies. You could try both, but the sealed mode might be the easiest way to experiment. That will immediately attenuate a lot of the low-bass and give you a higher proportion of mid-bass.
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 05-26-2019 at 07:03 AM.
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-26-2019, 09:48 AM
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IMO one potential problem is having the seating area up against the wall. Bass tends to build up in that area and can be a source of "boomy" bass.
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post #4 of 11 Old 05-26-2019, 10:18 AM
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Unless you modded your UMIK, we should be seeing clipping on that graph. I think you have your Windows mic volume set too high. If you're really measuring and tuning at 120+ dB, that's completely unnecessary

Let's get on a better baseline: measure closer to 90 dB or even less, and scale the vertical lines so they are 5 dB apart. When they're set at 20 as in your image, it's really hard to see what's going on.
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post #5 of 11 Old 05-26-2019, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzurk View Post
Hi All

I have had my SVS PB3000s for around 3 months now and just cant seem to get them "dialled in" the way id like them.

I have done a sub crawl, and the only location i get the best, most impactful bass is both subs are rear of room, this is not very practical due to new lounge coming and there would be no room really without having lounge sticking out, i mean, if i end up with no choice they will end up there, but trying to avoid the rewire for power and RCA.

Ive tried
  • Opposing corners
  • Both at front corners
  • Both at front, inside the speakers (current location)
  • Both at rear

By far, both at rear gets close to what i am after, but not fully from the MLP, more so if you stand next to the subs (between sub and lounge its insanely impactul and impressive)

Im trying to go down the path of
- Settle on location
- tune them in
- Room treatment (bass traps and acoustic panels)

Here are some pictures of the room
https://imgur.com/a/EmmmZms

Tonight i have decided to start again, so i reset the subs back to defaults, and ran YPAO, i then copied it to manual and set all PEQ settings for the subs to flat settings (no gain, or reduction in db across each band)

Here is the latest graph, looks shocking to me and i spent time trying over and over to get it right!
https://imgur.com/3mkWbFk

This was achieved with some minor EQ tweaks, setting the distance to about 1m further than actual distance and setting the phase on each woofer to 90deg

Would love your assistance as i just cant get them right in comparison to my old pb12s these are proving to be a real pain to get setup

Equipment list
AVR: Yamaha RX-A2050
FRONT: Aaron ATS-5
CENTRE: Aaron CC-240
ATMOS: 4x Yamaha NS-IC800
REAR: 2x Polk V-85 In Walls
SUBWOOFER: 2x SVS PB-3000

I find it all really boomy/vibration type bass, and minimal in your chest impact that i am really seeking, i want a kick in the chest feel when a car door shuts on a movie for example - i just dont get that!

Id be willing pay someone on here if they were able to possibly remote my laptop and try fine tune it all with me (REW + UMIK-1)

Thanks in advance
Aaron speakers... a fellow Aussie?
I think I've seen your set up on Whirlpool as well, if you're in Brisbane I would be happy to drop over and help out, though I'm certainly no expert.
I have to agree you have a nice response with both subs in the rear, I would run with that for now

*also reduce the vertical axis in REW to 5dB increments by changing the scale to 45db - 105db,makes it easier to see what's going on

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon 4311ci Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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post #6 of 11 Old 05-26-2019, 10:22 AM
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OK also it looks like your mic calibration is off, as it's unlikely your hitting 125dB at 17hz

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon 4311ci Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-26-2019, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all, ill check out some more of the settings tonight

The UMIK-1 is set as per the guide on here, i think it is configured with a +9.9db gain as per the guide.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdhq72a1pu...%20Version.pdf
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post #8 of 11 Old 05-26-2019, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I would start by contacting @Ed Mullen of SVS and letting him give you some in-depth technical assistance. That is part of the service that SVS provides to its customers, and he will be able to help you at no charge. If you want someone else on AVS to be able to help you, it might be helpful to list your location. It is very possible that there is someone in or near your community who can come assist you in person.

I have some observations of my own. First, I am not sure what you mean when you say you have a new lounge coming. Does that mean that you will be extending the HT to the rear, by expanding the room?

Second, you appear to have a very good frequency response with both subwoofers in the rear corners. In your photos, you referred to those locations as: "ear-to-ear, smiling, impactful bass". If that's where they sound and measure the best, then you may be fighting an uphill battle to make them work equally well somewhere else.

Third, in looking at your recent graph, it appears that you have been able to get a very strong house curve from about 16Hz to 40Hz. A lot of people would like that low-bass emphasis. But, from your description, what you are really looking for is more mid-bass; more chest punch. You can try using the PEQ in your subwoofers to increase the mid-bass, relative to the low-bass. The Music setting adds about a 3db boost at 63Hz. That is right in the maximum chest punch area for many people. Ed can advise you on additional settings you can try.

For instance, you might also try adding a high-pass filter at a particular low-frequency, with a mild slope to roll-off the lower frequencies a little. That would allow you to increase the volume of all of the mid-bass frequencies, relative to the low-bass frequencies, just by increasing the volume of the subs.

The PB3000's are quite powerful in the mid-bass, compared to the PB12's you had. But, they also have a lot more low-bass capability than you are used to. From what I can see from your post, and from your graphed FR, it's just a matter of placing the SPL emphasis where you want it. That's the sort of thing that Ed might be able to talk you through. I would probably start there, if I were you.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I started to say this earlier, but I decided to come back and add it after all. Not everyone likes a lot of deep bass. Even if the frequency response is fairly even in the low-bass range, as it is in the last graph you showed, some people might characterize the elevated low-bass as boomy-sounding. One other thing you could try is to operate your PB3000's in sealed mode, with both ports plugged, and with the corresponding setting in your DSP.

I had something similar in mind when I suggested a high-pass filter, perhaps at about 35Hz, with a 12db per octave slope. That would roll-off the low-frequencies a little more, relative to the mid-bass frequencies. You could try both, but the sealed mode might be the easiest way to experiment. That will immediately attenuate a lot of the low-bass and give you a higher proportion of mid-bass.
Thanks for that advise, I think you are right, if there is a good response at the rear, then aim for there, in regards to a new lounge, what i mean is that, although the subs fit there now as the lounge is only a 3 seater, i have a 5 seater coming which would potentially clash with the subs at the back, id have to check measurements again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
IMO one potential problem is having the seating area up against the wall. Bass tends to build up in that area and can be a source of "boomy" bass.
Agree, ive pulled lounges off the wall as much as i can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Unless you modded your UMIK, we should be seeing clipping on that graph. I think you have your Windows mic volume set too high. If you're really measuring and tuning at 120+ dB, that's completely unnecessary

Let's get on a better baseline: measure closer to 90 dB or even less, and scale the vertical lines so they are 5 dB apart. When they're set at 20 as in your image, it's really hard to see what's going on.
Ill try that tonight!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Aaron speakers... a fellow Aussie?
I think I've seen your set up on Whirlpool as well, if you're in Brisbane I would be happy to drop over and help out, though I'm certainly no expert.
I have to agree you have a nice response with both subs in the rear, I would run with that for now

*also reduce the vertical axis in REW to 5dB increments by changing the scale to 45db - 105db,makes it easier to see what's going on
Yep, Fellow Aussie The Aarons though are next on my upgrade list
Not in Brisbane unfortunately otherwise id certainly take you up on that
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post #9 of 11 Old 05-26-2019, 06:35 PM
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Since the OP @buzurk is fine for the lower frequencies, and would like more mid-bass.
He could also try this;
III-C: Cascading Crossovers:

I wanted the same, and work very well for me
The short and dirty version is;
-set your setting at 80 or 90Hz, on the back of the subs
-change your LFE from your AVR to the same value as you subs, normally set at 120Hz by default.
- try it, to see if you like-it.

Also if the DEQ setting if available, and On by default on the AVR.
I would turn it Off, since DEQ increase lower frequencies. When the volume is play, below reference level.
Actually, it should be the first step to look for. Before playing with Cascading Crossovers, since it could have been the culprit all along.


Darth
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Last edited by darthray; 05-26-2019 at 07:02 PM.
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post #10 of 11 Old 05-28-2019, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all, sorry i havnt got back to you, time has not allowed me to get in there and play!

With all this, would buying a MiniDSP 2x4HD help me? make it easier and get that perfect response?

I hear they do wonders to get time alignment, phase and the response setup perfect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Since the OP @buzurk is fine for the lower frequencies, and would like more mid-bass.
He could also try this;
III-C: Cascading Crossovers:

I wanted the same, and work very well for me
The short and dirty version is;
-set your setting at 80 or 90Hz, on the back of the subs
-change your LFE from your AVR to the same value as you subs, normally set at 120Hz by default.
- try it, to see if you like-it.

Also if the DEQ setting if available, and On by default on the AVR.
I would turn it Off, since DEQ increase lower frequencies. When the volume is play, below reference level.
Actually, it should be the first step to look for. Before playing with Cascading Crossovers, since it could have been the culprit all along.

Darth
Thanks for that!

The SVS run an app to change settings, so you say turn on the inbuilt crossover in each subwoofer, and set it to 80hz

In regards to AVR, on the Yammy, we cant set the LFE X-Over, we only set the speakers crossovers, and anything else is sent to the subs, my LCRs are all set to 80hz

I dont think i have a DEQ, I have the settings YPAO took on from running the room mic, thats about it, i also have the enhancer settings on, extra bass is OFF

Can i still do cascading crossovers?

Last edited by buzurk; 05-28-2019 at 05:14 AM.
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post #11 of 11 Old 05-28-2019, 07:27 PM
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I don't have any advice for you but I like that cubbie hole you made for your Xbox and receiver.


Do they heat up more than if they were in a completely open area?

TV: TCL 75R615
Reciever: Onkyo TX-NR787 running in a 5.4.4 configuration
Speakers: Polk T Series
Subwoofers: Dual SVS PB12-NSD and dual SVS PB-1000.
Gaming Systems: PlayStation 4 Pro and Nintendo Switch.
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