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post #1 of 29 Old 06-01-2019, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hsu vtf2 mk5 setup help

So I just got my vtf2 mk5 setup today. I was coming from an old Pinnacle 12 inch sub I got at a thrift store. I expected this thing to shake my house, but it was a bit underwhelming to be honest. I read a ton about this thing, and it is overwhelmingly positively liked. I have the volume turned up 2\3 of the way to get any decent volume out of it. It definitely hits lower notes better, but really for$600 I was anticipating a huge improvement that I'm just not seeing. There isn't a lot of tactile response from it.. Not a lot of punch. For reference, I am in an open floor plan 17x14x8 living room opened into a kitchen and dining area. I sit about 8 feet from the sub. I didn't do a sub crawl. The sub is next to the TV connected to a Yamaha tsr5810. I left one port plug in. I turned the crossover up to 160 hoping to get some feedback with no luck. I used the ypao setup with the mic sitting where my head would be. Any help is appreciated. What should I be expecting this thing to do? I thought for sure at full volume it would shake my skull sitting right on top of it, but I had to turn it over halfway to even realize it was playing anything. Thanks in advance
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post #2 of 29 Old 06-01-2019, 07:00 PM
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Yamaha receivers have lower voltage sub jacks. I'll personally never buy another Yamaha receiver ever again, but that's just me. Sub crawl should be step one and you skipped that. Time to go back and do step one. It looks like you have a large opens space, so that is going to have a big impact on how much impact the sub will have.

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post #3 of 29 Old 06-02-2019, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't do a sub crawl because I don't have many options for sub placement in my room. Placed in the same place as my last sub, I still expected to have a big increase in performance over my old one.
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post #4 of 29 Old 06-02-2019, 09:10 AM
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I just recently got a HSU vtf2.5 along with a SVS PB 2000 to test out and the HSU absolutely kicks. I have a yamaha reciever as well RX-A770. What did the test results put your sub at as far as db’s? I have my hsu volume set at 9 o’clock and my yamaha sub gain set at -6.0. Sub trim set at 0.
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post #5 of 29 Old 06-03-2019, 01:18 AM
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What are your sub settings? Phase, gain, crossover, EQ?

What did YPAO set your level and crossover for your subwoofer? You mentioned setting the crossover to 160. I'm assuming that meant on your receiver since the crossover on the VTF2-mk5 only goes up to 100hz.

What are you using for main speakers? What are they set to small or large in your receiver?

If you walk around your room does the bass get significantly stronger at some locations?

Have you taken any measurements using any tools like a db meter or REW?


The more info you give the more we can help.
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post #6 of 29 Old 06-03-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B3ntwooki3 View Post
What are your sub settings? Phase, gain, crossover, EQ?

What did YPAO set your level and crossover for your subwoofer? You mentioned setting the crossover to 160. I'm assuming that meant on your receiver since the crossover on the VTF2-mk5 only goes up to 100hz.

What are you using for main speakers? What are they set to small or large in your receiver?

If you walk around your room does the bass get significantly stronger at some locations?

Have you taken any measurements using any tools like a db meter or REW?


The more info you give the more we can help.
I also recently got the VTF2-MK5 and hooked it up, replacing my DT Powerfield 12.

It was definitely better, but didn't blow me away vs the old one. After much tinkering around with everything, once I re-ran MCACC (Pioneer's version of the auto EQ) with the HSU connected, my setup sounds night and day different.

It changed the subwoofer DB gain from +3 down to -.5, and also changed the crossover to 100hz, it had always been auto-set at 80hz the previous 6-7 times I've run MCACC.

I ran it w/ the EQ knob at .7, EQ2 switch position, and two ports open (never run it two ports open w/ EQ1 position). I tend to go back and forth between sealed and ported, just depends on what I'm listening to. Volume knob set at roughly 10 o'clock.

There is bass upon bass from this system now, and although I'm still debating if I should've gotten the VTF3, the first 10 min of Tron Legacy was shaking the floor. I'm also pretty sure it set off a car alarm on the street outside my condo, but that might've been a coincidence.
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post #7 of 29 Old 06-03-2019, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't get a db reading from my setup. Just recommended it turned all the way down to -10 on the receiver. Is that what you meant? I got it sorted a little better but am still looking for more chest punch.. Maybe something I can get from adjusting the eq on my receiver?
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post #8 of 29 Old 06-03-2019, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B3ntwooki3 View Post
What are your sub settings? Phase, gain, crossover, EQ?
Pretty new to these settings. I played with the knobs, but didn't notice anything remarkably didn't instantly. Kinda the help I'm looking for with that. Volume I currently have set about 10:00.

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Originally Posted by B3ntwooki3 View Post
What did YPAO set your level and crossover for your subwoofer? You mentioned setting the crossover to 160. I'm assuming that meant on your receiver since the crossover on the VTF2-mk5 only goes up to 100hz.
Yes on the receiver. Sub level was recommended at-10 db I have crossover set at 80 at the moment

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Originally Posted by B3ntwooki3 View Post
What are you using for main speakers? What are they set to small or large in your receiver?
I have a pair of Polk rti6 speakers for my mains, a CSI a4 for a center and rti4 surround speakers. Part of my problem was my receiver automatically set them to large when I disconnected my old sub. Now set to small.

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Originally Posted by B3ntwooki3 View Post
If you walk around your room does the bass get significantly stronger at some locations?
Haven't tried this yet. We are house cleaning today. I might give this a try when we settle down for the evening.

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Originally Posted by B3ntwooki3 View Post
Have you taken any measurements using any tools like a db meter or REW?
don't have anything to take additional readings

Quote:
Originally Posted by B3ntwooki3 View Post
The more info you give the more we can help.
I think setting my mains to small helped a lot for volume, but I'd like to feel the chest punch a bit more. Any idea how that can be adjusted?
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post #9 of 29 Old 06-03-2019, 12:37 PM
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Typically in these forums people like to use tools like REW to take measurements and make adjustments from there but I think we all need a good starting point. Below I have a link for REW and some settings I would recommend as a good starting point
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

If you haven't already done so have a look at the quick setup and owners guide. It has some useful info about what all the knobs do and some warnings of settings combinations that can screw up your sub.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/...K5Quickset.pdf
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/...2MK5manual.pdf

Subwoofer Settings
q control = 0.3
phase=0
Volume= 11 o'clock
EQ=2
Crossover=OUT


Receiver Settings
Crossover=100
Speakers=Small

After applying these settings please rerun YPAO and report back what crossover frequency it set for your receiver, the subwoofer level, and if it kept your speakers to "small".

Last edited by B3ntwooki3; 06-03-2019 at 08:00 PM.
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post #10 of 29 Old 06-04-2019, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Crossover was set to 80Hz, mains set to large, subwoofer set to -10dB. Results of ypao picture posted if that helps
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post #11 of 29 Old 06-04-2019, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Now my sub is back to sounding really low volume again though
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post #12 of 29 Old 06-04-2019, 02:45 PM
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Can you please provide a picture of your speaker level settings on the receiver?

It will look something like this.

http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/wp-c...ker-levels.jpg


where are you placing the mic while measuring?

Set your mains back to small.

can you take a picture of the back of your sub too?


Edits: multiple post screw ups corrections

Last edited by B3ntwooki3; 06-04-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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post #13 of 29 Old 06-04-2019, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Crossover was set to 80Hz, mains set to large, subwoofer set to -10dB. Results of ypao picture posted if that helps
Turn the gain on the sub up some until YPAO sets the sub trim to around -8db. Then up the sub trim by 4-6db so it reads -4 to -2db and give it a listen.

And set your mains to small.

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post #14 of 29 Old 06-04-2019, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Crossover was set to 80Hz, mains set to large, subwoofer set to -10dB. Results of ypao picture posted if that helps
Is -10dB the lowest setting on your Yamaha? IIRC, it is on Yamaha AVRs....and if so, you need to turn down the gain on the sub and re-run YPAO until you get the sub trim into the acceptable range (i.e. not at the lowest/highest setting).

All speakers must be set to "small" if you want your sub to get the redirected bass. Bass will be severely lacking (in music especially) if the speakers are set to "large".
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post #15 of 29 Old 06-04-2019, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Turn the gain on the sub up some until YPAO sets the sub trim to around -8db. Then up the sub trim by 4-6db so it reads -4 to -2db and give it a listen.

And set your mains to small.
I think you meant to say turn the gain down, Kini.
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post #16 of 29 Old 06-04-2019, 04:02 PM
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I think you meant to say turn the gain down, Kini.
Oops, you're right. Bassackwards today.

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post #17 of 29 Old 06-04-2019, 08:20 PM
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Here's the one I'm talking about. Hit "setup" on your remote. It's under speaker -> Level.
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post #18 of 29 Old 06-06-2019, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I'm just SOL on this sub sounding like I want it to. I called hsu research, and was basically told to use my old sub with this one because this sub isn't designed for what I want. Should've gone with svs. At least I would have free return shipping if it didn't work out....I followed kini's suggestion with setting the gain lower. It took me 4 tries to get it to -9dB. Very touchy at that point, so I went with it. I turned the level on my receiver up to -3dB. Almost can't tell it's even playing for music. Turning it off makes almost no difference in sound. Everything the same, my old puny 200watt max output Pinnacle press it more volume at half gain as the vtf2 at Max gain in punch easily. I realize why it turns my speakers to large every time... Because the sub just isn't made for mid base at all. *Sigh* I told my wife I wouldn't need anything after this. I can't send it back and waste a couple hundred dollars on shipping, so I'm just stuck with a sub I am not happy with. I'll attach pics of my settings for you guys.
Question about using both subs. Is there a way to limit the low end on my old sub and allocate it to the vtf2? Like use my old sub as more of an mbm? The vtf2 does well down low, but it just isn't what I was dreaming of when I threw $600 toward a new sub.
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Last edited by kingssoldier08; 06-06-2019 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Added pictures
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post #19 of 29 Old 06-06-2019, 01:42 PM
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You need to turn Extra Bass OFF. Despite it's name, from what I've read it actually cuts the bass to the sub...and quite drastically at that.
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post #20 of 29 Old 06-06-2019, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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You need to turn Extra Bass OFF. Despite it's name, from what I've read it actually cuts the bass to the sub...and quite drastically at that.
I've tried both ways. Neither has a dramatic effect on sub output.
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post #21 of 29 Old 06-06-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
I think I'm just SOL on this sub sounding like I want it to. I called hsu research, and was basically told to use my old sub with this one because this sub isn't designed for what I want. Should've gone with svs. At least I would have free return shipping if it didn't work out....I followed kini's suggestion with setting the gain lower. It took me 4 tries to get it to -9dB. Very touchy at that point, so I went with it. I turned the level on my receiver up to -3dB. Almost can't tell it's even playing for music. Turning it off makes almost no difference in sound. Everything the same, my old puny 200watt max output Pinnacle press it more volume at half gain as the vtf2 at Max gain in punch easily. I realize why it turns my speakers to large every time... Because the sub just isn't made for mid base at all. *Sigh* I told my wife I wouldn't need anything after this. I can't send it back and waste a couple hundred dollars on shipping, so I'm just stuck with a sub I am not happy with. I'll attach pics of my settings for you guys.
Question about using both subs. Is there a way to limit the low end on my old sub and allocate it to the vtf2? Like use my old sub as more of an mbm? The vtf2 does well down low, but it just isn't what I was dreaming of when I threw $600 toward a new sub.
Not sure if it will make any difference but "extra bass" should be set to off. That setting is for when the mains are set to large or full range, it will then send all the bass to both the speakers and the sub.

As for the other settings, if YPAO is coming back with a -9db setting and you bump it up by another 6db and it still doesn't have the output in the frequencies you're wanting then you're sitting in a bad spot for those frequencies. In other words it seems you have a large null in the mid to upper bass frequencies.

No matter what else is going on, your sub has more output at all frequencies than your old Pinnacle sub. So something else is going on.
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post #22 of 29 Old 06-06-2019, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
]

Not sure if it will make any difference but "extra bass" should be set to off. That setting is for when the mains are set to large or full range, it will then send all the bass to both the speakers and the sub.
Yeah I had toggled that a few times and didn't notice any difference

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As for the other settings, if YPAO is coming back with a -9db setting and you bump it up by another 6db and it still doesn't have the output in the frequencies you're wanting then you're sitting in a bad spot for those frequencies. In other words it seems you have a large null in the mid to upper bass frequencies.

No matter what else is going on, your sub has more output at all frequencies than your old Pinnacle sub. So something else is going on.
I thought the same, but the new sub is in the exact place my old one was. It also doesn't change even if I'm leaning over the sub as I adjust the levels. I can sit on the sub and not feel any punch from it. I also walked around my room and still didn't feel a difference. It certainly shakes when hitting 50hz and below though. When I run both subs I can get more mid bass punch from my Pinnacle and the low from the hsu, but the clarity just isn't as good, and it gets muddy and overpowering with frequencies that seem to pierce my skull. That and deep bass were the reasons I bought this one. I just want to feel the shotgun from the TV in my chest. It is VERY noticable with music . My stock car stereo with one blown speaker has more kick than this thing. It just doesn't make sense to me. But I literally had the hsu gain at max, and it was MUCH quieter than my Pinnacle at 2:00 with music. By music, I mean techno pop like Zedd that always seems to mix the bass really high.

Do you have any more suggestions. I won't be home until Monday afternoon to meet around, but I'm definitely open to any other ideas. I'd love to find that I didn't spend$600 on a sub that doesn't work for me. I have tried taking the plugs out of the ports to leave them both open and both eq settings on the sub. I have closed both ports to make it sealed. My manual eq on my receiver does not allow sub adjustment. I have tried the Q. Setting from .3 to .7 and between. I'm just kinda bummed about it all right now

Last edited by kingssoldier08; 06-06-2019 at 03:06 PM. Reason: Adding stuff
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post #23 of 29 Old 06-06-2019, 06:52 PM
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Have you tried the HSU with both ports open? That should give more mid-bass headroom.
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post #24 of 29 Old 06-06-2019, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you tried the HSU with both ports open? That should give more mid-bass headroom.
Yeah I tried all the port\eq combinations with no luck. 😞
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post #25 of 29 Old 06-09-2019, 12:51 AM
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I just spent the whole night listening to music on my VTF 2.5. I played good mix of music from rock, country, pop, etc.
There was plenty of midbass and "chest thump". This sub is known to have larger amounts of midbass vs the SVS PB 2000.

I think the problem here can be one of two things.

1) you may have some settings issue. Make sure the crossover on the HSU is turned OFF (out position). This is why I was asking for a picture of the back of your sub so we could see what all your switches and dials are set to.
2) You may just be accustomed to/prefer subs that have a large hump in the midbass frequency.

For scenario #2 above I had a Klipsch 12" ported sub for a few weeks before the HSU. It was designed to provide a nice bump in output between 50ish-90ish hz which gave the impression that it was powerful and loud. The HSU is designed to play "flat". Meaning to say the frequency response should be even throughout a large spectrum. It took a little while before I could get my settings right and understand the way I was processing base in my head.

IMO there is nothing wrong with each design philosophy. It just caters to different crowds. Even if your issue is #2 the HSU should still be able to provide plenty of mid bass punch so I think there is still hope for you.

I still think we should have a closer look at all your settings.


1 other thing. Try flipping the phase switch on your sub. If you say you can barely tell a difference when the sub is on or off this may be a symptom of your sub and mains being out of phase. This actually happened to initially when I accidentally bumped my phase switch thinking it was the EQ switch.
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post #26 of 29 Old 06-09-2019, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B3ntwooki3 View Post
I just spent the whole night listening to music on my VTF 2.5. I played good mix of music from rock, country, pop, etc.
There was plenty of midbass and "chest thump". This sub is known to have larger amounts of midbass vs the SVS PB 2000.

I think the problem here can be one of two things.

1) you may have some settings issue. Make sure the crossover on the HSU is turned OFF (out position). This is why I was asking for a picture of the back of your sub so we could see what all your switches and dials are set to.
2) You may just be accustomed to/prefer subs that have a large hump in the midbass frequency.

For scenario #2 above I had a Klipsch 12" ported sub for a few weeks before the HSU. It was designed to provide a nice bump in output between 50ish-90ish hz which gave the impression that it was powerful and loud. The HSU is designed to play "flat". Meaning to say the frequency response should be even throughout a large spectrum. It took a little while before I could get my settings right and understand the way I was processing base in my head.

IMO there is nothing wrong with each design philosophy. It just caters to different crowds. Even if your issue is #2 the HSU should still be able to provide plenty of mid bass punch so I think there is still hope for you.

I still think we should have a closer look at all your settings.


1 other thing. Try flipping the phase switch on your sub. If you say you can barely tell a difference when the sub is on or off this may be a symptom of your sub and mains being out of phase. This actually happened to initially when I accidentally bumped my phase switch thinking it was the EQ switch.
That's good to hear. I reached out to the official hsu sub owners forum here at avs and got a response from Kevin who works for hsu. He also suggested the phase being out. I have flipped the switch back and forth, but he suggested playing with the sub distance settings as well. I'll be home tomorrow afternoon and will hopefully be able to check it out more. I'm fairly (read: 90%) confident that the crossover is set to the out position.

I think I would say I'm used to the big hump in frequency response, because I've only had older or cheaper subs (HTIB, Polk 110sw, Pinnacle sub 200). This is my first new and highly regarded and researched sub. But I think (and hope) you and Kevin are right, and something is messing with the sound that can be fixed with adjustments.
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post #27 of 29 Old 06-10-2019, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so I messed around with the phase and distance and such an no real luck. The crossover was set to my receiver like I thought it was. I would've felt pretty fun dumb otherwise though lol. Then I decided to actually do the sub crawl.. For science. It is currently in literally the worst place in the entire room except the center of the room. I'll have to talk to my wife about different placement. I'm still getting dips around 50-60 hz and 68-75 where it drops off. Also around 30 hz and lower when running this test tone generator https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
It sounds BETTER when I stand in the corner, but still not like my old sub punch wise. That could be me being acclamated to humps in my other speakers. IDK at the moment, but watching the hospital explosion scene (I think scene 30) in the dark Knight, I still can't really FEEL the shotgun, but definitely feel the room pressurize for the collapse. One thing I noticed I thought I would ask about is at 22 hz or so, the driver seems to be making a flapping nose. Like a helicopter. Maybe it's chuffing? I can't tell as I've never had that happen on a sub before. Gain is at 10:00. Sub level at -5dB. How do I tell if it is chuffing?
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post #28 of 29 Old 06-10-2019, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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By "better" I mean I can get similar response with the gain at 2:00 on the hsu to get similar punch sitting the crawl in loudest position as the Pinnacle at 12:00... Still not what I'd expect but maybe?
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post #29 of 29 Old 06-10-2019, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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