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post #1 of 49 Old 06-15-2019, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Advice for 2 Subs under $2500

Budget is $2500 max for 2 subs (this is already stretching....so not a $ above $2500).

Room is 16 x 25 x 9.5. One row of 4 seats. MLP is 10' from a 130" wide scope.

Was considering 2x Seaton's JS-12, 2 x SVS SB-3000 or 4000, even considering a used F2+ with a Slave. Also looked at Rythmic and HSU. But quite frankly not sure where to look.

This will be 90% Movies in a dedicated Home Theater. I also watch a lot of Music Concerts. WAF is an issue….She hates the huge ported subs my neighbor has....so maybe I was hoping to get away with sealed subs instead.....
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post #2 of 49 Old 06-15-2019, 02:59 PM
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Rhythmik subs are outstanding and they make some of the best sealed subs on the market. Was there anything about them that made you hesitate? Another option: E-mail Power Sound Audio and see what Tom will do for a discount for buying dual S1811 if you want to go sealed. Also check with him to see what he may be expecting off of trade-ins in your price range. There should be quite a lot incoming from those who upgraded to the TV36. Maybe he is expecting a pair of something like the V1811 which are about the smallest 18" vented subs on the market. The trade-ins he sells he fully inspects and backs with a five year warranty.
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/S1811
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/V1811

I'd stick with e-mail for contact at this point. He will get back to you within 24 hours. You can try phone, too, but he is pretty busy right now and may not get to it.

EDIT: I should add, that if you want something a bit more discreet, Power Sound Audio does offer a couple of downfiring options using the 15" driver that will come in under your budget. One of the few subs that passed WAF for me because it didn't look so much like a big speaker. I just suggested the 18" subs because they are possibly within your price range and given the size of the room.
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Last edited by bargugl; 06-15-2019 at 09:15 PM.
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post #3 of 49 Old 06-15-2019, 10:56 PM
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Your room is 3800 ft^3, which is a pretty large room. You are probably barking up the wrong tree looking for sealed subs for nearly all home theater use. If size of the cabinet is an issue, the PSA V1510DF a few inches taller than the SVS SB-4000, about the same width and not as deep as the SB-4000. The V1510DF is also a down-firing sub, so you can put something decorative on top of it and it really doesn't look like a subwoofer. Or you can just say to heck with it and get dual Monolith THX Ultra 15's for $2500. It's a larger subwoofer in case you didn't know.
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post #4 of 49 Old 06-16-2019, 07:21 AM
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Waf and big ported subs finished with industrial type paint is not always the best mix.

First I would get a tape measure and find out what size subs are okay with the wife. I would agree with ported but sometimes it's not possible. Ryhtmik, PSA, Monolith are all great options if you want the most performance. If WAf is important SVS is a very good option. The HSU sealed 15" sub is very attractive and small but has good performance. With you budget you could buy three and have one front, back and then one mid wall.

It's am a big fan of transducers and would advocate buying a pair of the HSU sealed subs then adding some transducers to your seats to give you tactile feel.
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post #5 of 49 Old 06-16-2019, 07:23 AM
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Paradigm Defiance X12 or x15 if you can fit them. I'm sure you could get 2 x15's for $2,500 at a dealer. Incredible subs with the best room correction out there.

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post #6 of 49 Old 06-16-2019, 07:44 AM
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Lots of great suggestions......What subs does your neighbor have, do you know?
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post #7 of 49 Old 06-16-2019, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crg28 View Post

Room is 16 x 25 x 9.5. One row of 4 seats. MLP is 10' from a 130" wide scope.



Was considering 2x Seaton's JS-12, 2 x SVS SB-3000 or 4000, even considering a used F2+ with a Slave.
The used F2+ w/slave is a good option IMO. The others may not provide enough output for the space. Are you on a hard slab or a floating floor/platform?
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post #8 of 49 Old 06-16-2019, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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This room isnon the 2nd floor.
Would a F2+ Slave set up in the front as typically recommended by Mark workout for a room like mine? Or would i need to place the slave in the back of the room?
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post #9 of 49 Old 06-16-2019, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crg28 View Post
This room isnon the 2nd floor.

Would a F2+ Slave set up in the front as typically recommended by Mark workout for a room like mine? Or would i need to place the slave in the back of the room?
For rooms like yours it often works out to have both in the front. Usually between ¼-⅓ wall length from the corner.

Placing the subs catacorner could work well too but you would need a long Speakon tether to the slave.

What are you using for an AVR/SSP? Do you use any RoomEQ?
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post #10 of 49 Old 06-16-2019, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I have an Anthem AVM 60
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post #11 of 49 Old 06-17-2019, 03:21 AM
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For this price, nothing will beat the dual Monolith THX 15's.
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post #12 of 49 Old 06-17-2019, 07:55 AM
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Although they are far from being the best value, the Outlaw X13 (Duals $2499 shipped) maybe worth considering for WAF purposes.
  • Down-firing driver/ports (all hidden for great WAF)
  • Aesthetically beautiful (superb fit and finishes, high gloss top)
  • Can be used as end tables

Performance wise i'm guessing they're on par/better than PB3000's but any decent 15's will outperform the X13/PB3000 (Monolith 15, FV15HP etc)

I guess when you compare the X13 to the PB3000's the value isn't as bad as it used to be

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post #13 of 49 Old 06-17-2019, 10:02 AM
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Dual VTF3 Mk5's. It's a tunable sub with 2 ports that can be plugged (or one, or none) with different settings so you can dial it in to your preference. With the grille on she won't be able to see the ports!
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post #14 of 49 Old 06-17-2019, 12:10 PM
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Why does the wife care if the subs are ported? It's not like the ports will be visible. Is she opposed to the size? If the sub fits in the space, what does it matter?

My wife was b****y about my 4 subs, but after a while, they're just big black end tables to her.

Sealed subs are only good for small enclosed rooms where you can get some room gain. Your room has a max dimension of 25'. No room gain for you. In your case, ported will perform better. The only exception are sealed subs with 2 drivers. 2 drivers>ported.

My advice is to buy 2 ported subs and don't mention anything about ported or sealed.
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post #15 of 49 Old 06-17-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
Why does the wife care if the subs are ported? It's not like the ports will be visible. Is she opposed to the size? If the sub fits in the space, what does it matter?

My wife was b****y about my 4 subs, but after a while, they're just big black end tables to her.

Sealed subs are only good for small enclosed rooms where you can get some room gain. Your room has a max dimension of 25'. No room gain for you. In your case, ported will perform better. The only exception are sealed subs with 2 drivers. 2 drivers>ported.

My advice is to buy 2 ported subs and don't mention anything about ported or sealed.
I think he is inferring she doesn't like big subs and ported subs, on average, are much bigger than sealed hence his preference for sealed.

That's why I told him to negotiate size first before you even consider what sub/brand.

I have had good luck using multiple (4) smaller sealed subs in a larger room (DIY) vs one or two large ported. Especially if you can place a sub or two right near the main listening position.
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post #16 of 49 Old 06-17-2019, 01:22 PM
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If you have the time/skills you could build a DIY sub that looks like an end table or something like that. Heck sealed 18" Dayton UM's are pretty small.

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post #17 of 49 Old 06-17-2019, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I think he is inferring she doesn't like big subs and ported subs, on average, are much bigger than sealed hence his preference for sealed.

That's why I told him to negotiate size first before you even consider what sub/brand.

I have had good luck using multiple (4) smaller sealed subs in a larger room (DIY) vs one or two large ported. Especially if you can place a sub or two right near the main listening position.
Yep. This is it. She could care less if it is ported, non ported, from Mars, etc.... All she cares about is she doesn't want a "big ass sub like our neighbor" who has dual FV15HP.....

I could prob sell her on F2 + Slave if they are both placed up front on its side.....but if they will go anywhere else, then no cant do...
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post #18 of 49 Old 06-27-2019, 02:56 PM
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JBL SRX828SP and spend the remaining 500 bucks on wine for your wife :P

You can paint the enclosure to match your walls, throw some fabric over it to hide it as a table or commode. Or hide it behind the screen. Think laterally

Remember to first tell your wife "I got a really good deal so here's the wine I bought with the money I saved, this is for you." - Then when she's got a bottle of wine in her you can unveil the subwoofer behind the projector screen. Then play her favorite music :P

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post #19 of 49 Old 06-27-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
JBL SRX828SP and spend the remaining 500 bucks on wine for your wife :P

You can paint the enclosure to match your walls, throw some fabric over it to hide it as a table or commode. Or hide it behind the screen. Think laterally

Remember to first tell your wife "I got a really good deal so here's the wine I bought with the money I saved, this is for you." - Then when she's got a bottle of wine in her you can unveil the subwoofer behind the projector screen. Then play her favorite music :P
Not really a home theater sub. It only goes to 35hz.
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post #20 of 49 Old 06-27-2019, 03:18 PM
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I have no experience, but someone posted an infinite baffle set up the other day with four 18" subs. It was completely recessed into the wall so no sub was in the room. It was a really neat concept if your wife doesn't want big sub-woofer, boxes in the room. If you have unfinished space around your theater room anywhere, it might be an option worth investigating further.

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post #21 of 49 Old 06-27-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Not really a home theater sub. It only goes to 35hz.
I guess a 2 grand home grade subwoofer will blow it out of the water at 20-25hz then!

cms, aka driver diaphragm suspension mechanical compliance: 0.000065 meter/Newton or in standard form 6.5e-05 m/N. (smaller number is better)
rms, aka driver diaphragm suspension mechanical resistance: 6.41 Newton.sec/meter. (higher number is better)
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post #22 of 49 Old 06-27-2019, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
I have no experience, but someone posted an infinite baffle set up the other day with four 18" subs. It was completely recessed into the wall so no sub was in the room. It was a really neat concept if your wife doesn't want big sub-woofer, boxes in the room. If you have unfinished space around your theater room anywhere, it might be an option worth investigating further.
Might have been me, I just finished mine up. Completely hidden and the extension is unbelievable.

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post #23 of 49 Old 06-27-2019, 06:39 PM
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I guess a 2 grand home grade subwoofer will blow it out of the water at 20-25hz then!
Well actually it will smoke it from 35hz and lower. I'm sure if the OP was looking to build a disco in a barn or abandoned K-Mart it would be a good choice.
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post #24 of 49 Old 06-27-2019, 06:52 PM
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figure out a way to include a big sub in your space. put a table cloth over it, a plant on top, a tree in front...just figure it out and get big subs. you have a large area...shoot dress the sub up as a kegerator...


here is a rythmik fv15hp as end table to couch and fv25hp plopped in a corner of kitchen nook...might give you an idea...
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Well actually it will smoke it from 35hz and lower. I'm sure if the OP was looking to build a disco in a barn or abandoned K-Mart it would be a good choice.
So I guess can throw an old 100 watt 90db 1w/m 10" woofer in an enclosure with a -3db point at 16hz and it'll kick the crap out of both of these at 16hz then.

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So I guess can throw an old 100 watt 90db 1w/m 10" woofer in an enclosure with a -3db point at 16hz and it'll kick the crap out of both of these at 16hz then.
Well, now you're just being (insert term for mentally challenged).

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post #27 of 49 Old 06-27-2019, 08:11 PM
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Well, now you're just being (insert term for mentally challenged).
Well as are you Because -10db at 29hz from 135db continuous output is still way more than the home grade can deliver. Even at 20hz, I bet these outperform the home grade stuff by far (especially since there will be more room gain from two 18" woofers than smaller stuff).

And with built-in DSP and XLR its resale value is going to be a lot better than the home grade stuff. I bet you could buy two of these and sell them in 20 years to a band or DJ or bar and still not lose close to 2 grand on them (adjusted for inflation).

Meanwhile what's the resale value on random not-top-of-the-line 20 year old home grade subwoofers?

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post #28 of 49 Old 06-27-2019, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by crg28 View Post
This room isnon the 2nd floor.
Would a F2+ Slave set up in the front as typically recommended by Mark workout for a room like mine? Or would i need to place the slave in the back of the room?
Master at front, Slave at rear will almost always produce better bass.
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post #29 of 49 Old 06-28-2019, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by lloyd401 View Post
Might have been me, I just finished mine up. Completely hidden and the extension is unbelievable.

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Yes it was you - I thought this was nicely done and really something that people should look at if they have 1.) WAF or space limitations and 2.) access to unfinished space somewhere around your theater. You have four 18" subs in your theater and no one would ever know it by a visual inspection. On top of that, I bet even with the 4- 18" UM drivers you have maybe $1,500.00 in it total (not including amplification). Impressive for sure.

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post #30 of 49 Old 06-28-2019, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by crg28 View Post
This will be 90% Movies in a dedicated Home Theater. I also watch a lot of Music Concerts. WAF is an issue….She hates the huge ported subs my neighbor has....so maybe I was hoping to get away with sealed subs instead.....
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Originally Posted by ronny31 View Post
Well as are you Because -10db at 29hz from 135db continuous output is still way more than the home grade can deliver. Even at 20hz, I bet these outperform the home grade stuff by far (especially since there will be more room gain from two 18" woofers than smaller stuff).

And with built-in DSP and XLR its resale value is going to be a lot better than the home grade stuff. I bet you could buy two of these and sell them in 20 years to a band or DJ or bar and still not lose close to 2 grand on them (adjusted for inflation).

Meanwhile what's the resale value on random not-top-of-the-line 20 year old home grade subwoofers?
Are you really suggesting a high tuned DJ sub that's -30 dB by 20 Hz for this use case? Because that's just an awful idea, if so.
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